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{{Forumheader|WoWWiki general}}
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{{npcbox
 
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<!-- Please put your content under this paragraph. Be sure to sign your edits with four tildes ~~~~ -->
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|name=Abyssal Duke
 
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The ranks of many abilities will be gone. And so will the rank tables. I want to replace them with level tables. I have made a start with [[Wrath]], [[Healing Touch]] and [[Moonfire]]. It will be a lot of entries. If you think the tables will be too big or too detailed, you can/I am willing to undo the related edits.
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|level=62
 
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|image=
 
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|race=Elemental
 
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|location=[[Silithus]]
 
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|instance=Abyssal Council
 
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}}
 
   
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--[[User:Hans Kamp|Hans Kamp]] ([[User talk:Hans Kamp|talk]]) 16:53, October 9, 2010 (UTC)
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An '''Abyssal Duke''' is a level 62 [[elite]] elemental summoned from the Wind Stones around the various [[Twilight's Hammer]] camps in [[Silithus]]. The player must wear the [[Twilight Trappings]] and a {{Loot|Common|Twilight Cultist Medallion of Station}} when interacting with a wind stone to summon one (failure to wear it can lead to shocking results!). The elemental that is summoned is random, but there are items that can force a certain type to appear.
 
   
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:I was watching you, and think it's a good start. I'd probably change it to "Cataclysm table" myself, however. --[[User:Sky2042|Sky]] ([[User talk:Sky2042|t]] ยท [[Special:Contributions/Sky2042|c]]) 17:31, October 9, 2010 (UTC)
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The Abyssal Dukes are:
 
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::For level 1 to 10 it is easy to do it. But later on the values will be affected by items with stats, talents and glyphs. [[User:Hans Kamp|Hans Kamp]] ([[User talk:Hans Kamp|talk]]) 17:46, October 9, 2010 (UTC)
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*[[Duke of Fathoms]] (Water)
 
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:::However they will also scale with spell/attack power, so that's another problem... --{{User:Gourra/Sig2}} 19:05, October 9, 2010 (UTC)
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*[[Duke of Cynders]] (Fire)
 
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*[[Duke of Shards]] (Earth)
 
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*[[Duke of Zephyrs]] (Air)
 
   
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::::Once Cata is live, and the old ranks go away, I think the title "Cataclysm table" will make less sense. -- [[User:Harveydrone|Har]][[User_talk:Harveydrone|vey]][[Special:Contributions/Harveydrone|drone]] 12:59, October 12, 2010 (UTC)
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A templar will sometimes drop an [[Abyssal Signet]]. Sometimes it will also drop {{quality|Rare|rare}} armor, weapons or trade items relating to the templar's element (for example: [[Elemental Fire]] from [[Duke of Cynders]]).
 
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:::::Therefore, I was thinking of a better name than "Cataclysm table". Maybe "Scaling". [[User:Hans Kamp|Hans Kamp]] ([[User talk:Hans Kamp|talk]]) 14:27, October 12, 2010 (UTC)
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:::::: How about ''Scaling by Level'', with a note to point out that 'only' level is considered, not buffs, gear, or other variable factors? --[[User:PaxArcana|PaxArcana]] ([[User talk:PaxArcana|talk]]) 14:09, October 15, 2010 (UTC)
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::::::: ''Level table'' may be it, because previously it was called ''Rank table''. [[User:Hans Kamp|Hans Kamp]] ([[User talk:Hans Kamp|talk]]) 14:13, October 15, 2010 (UTC)
   
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Revitalising this discussion. Spells and abilities seem to always scale with level now. I've [[User:Afpersing/Ranksandbox|drafted various tables]] for {{Ability|Wrath}}, and could do with some feedback about which would be the most appropriate table to use while updating spell pages. I like the idea of doing the first level the ability is learned at, followed by the 10 level milestones til 80 - then when Cata hits, adding 85 to the end. The 10-level milestones are marked in the game with achievements, so it seems appropriate to use them as the new "ranks" for the tables. For the table header, "Spell scaling" seems OK to me. --[[User:Afpersing|Afpersing]] ([[User talk:Afpersing|talk]]) 19:18, 27 October 2010 (UTC)
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Abyssal Dukes are tuned for a 5 person group.
 
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:Perhaps we could have summary chart (Every 10 + 85) on the main, and a subpage for a full extended level chart? [[User:Rocode|Rocode]] ([[User talk:Rocode|talk]]) 20:50, 27 October 2010 (UTC)
   
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Would it not just be better to determine the current formula for the ability and display the formula on the page, providing a few examples? Base damage tables simply aren't very useful: most spells aren't merely base damage--they're base damage plus any number of (potentially complex) modifiers. These tables give a very incomplete view of the ability and may even mislead readers. I personally think such low value information does not deserve to be in the article, especially considering the amount of space it might take up. In my opinion we should simply display the formula and/or develop a widget (similar to Wowhead's) that lets users input values to calculate the damage. [[User:Shrivelup|Shrivelup]] ([[User talk:Shrivelup|talk]]) 06:41, 28 October 2010 (UTC)
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:I considered this as an option. My plan is to talk with some people at Wowhead to see how they calculate spell scaling. I could unpick their Javscript, but I'm sure they wouldn't mind just explaining it. --[[User:Afpersing|Afpersing]] ([[User talk:Afpersing|talk]]) 12:56, 28 October 2010 (UTC)
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[[Category:Elementals]]
 
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[[Category:Silithus mobs]]
 

Revision as of 12:56, 28 October 2010

Forums: Village pump → Replacing rank tables

The ranks of many abilities will be gone. And so will the rank tables. I want to replace them with level tables. I have made a start with Spell nature wrathv2 [Wrath], Spell nature healingtouch [Healing Touch] and Spell nature starfall [Moonfire]. It will be a lot of entries. If you think the tables will be too big or too detailed, you can/I am willing to undo the related edits.

--Hans Kamp (talk) 16:53, October 9, 2010 (UTC)

I was watching you, and think it's a good start. I'd probably change it to "Cataclysm table" myself, however. --Sky (t ยท c) 17:31, October 9, 2010 (UTC)
For level 1 to 10 it is easy to do it. But later on the values will be affected by items with stats, talents and glyphs. Hans Kamp (talk) 17:46, October 9, 2010 (UTC)
However they will also scale with spell/attack power, so that's another problem... --g0urra[T҂C] 19:05, October 9, 2010 (UTC)
Once Cata is live, and the old ranks go away, I think the title "Cataclysm table" will make less sense. -- Harveydrone 12:59, October 12, 2010 (UTC)
Therefore, I was thinking of a better name than "Cataclysm table". Maybe "Scaling". Hans Kamp (talk) 14:27, October 12, 2010 (UTC)
How about Scaling by Level, with a note to point out that 'only' level is considered, not buffs, gear, or other variable factors? --PaxArcana (talk) 14:09, October 15, 2010 (UTC)
Level table may be it, because previously it was called Rank table. Hans Kamp (talk) 14:13, October 15, 2010 (UTC)

Revitalising this discussion. Spells and abilities seem to always scale with level now. I've drafted various tables for File:Spell Nature wrathv2.png [Wrath], and could do with some feedback about which would be the most appropriate table to use while updating spell pages. I like the idea of doing the first level the ability is learned at, followed by the 10 level milestones til 80 - then when Cata hits, adding 85 to the end. The 10-level milestones are marked in the game with achievements, so it seems appropriate to use them as the new "ranks" for the tables. For the table header, "Spell scaling" seems OK to me. --Afpersing (talk) 19:18, 27 October 2010 (UTC)

Perhaps we could have summary chart (Every 10 + 85) on the main, and a subpage for a full extended level chart? Rocode (talk) 20:50, 27 October 2010 (UTC)

Would it not just be better to determine the current formula for the ability and display the formula on the page, providing a few examples? Base damage tables simply aren't very useful: most spells aren't merely base damage--they're base damage plus any number of (potentially complex) modifiers. These tables give a very incomplete view of the ability and may even mislead readers. I personally think such low value information does not deserve to be in the article, especially considering the amount of space it might take up. In my opinion we should simply display the formula and/or develop a widget (similar to Wowhead's) that lets users input values to calculate the damage. Shrivelup (talk) 06:41, 28 October 2010 (UTC)

I considered this as an option. My plan is to talk with some people at Wowhead to see how they calculate spell scaling. I could unpick their Javscript, but I'm sure they wouldn't mind just explaining it. --Afpersing (talk) 12:56, 28 October 2010 (UTC)