Changes: Sergeant (character)

Revision as of 17:06, 4 April 2011

Old discussion

Where should I put the information then? Lordaeron is a part of the human forces. If your the humans, you are victorius. If you are the orcs, you destroy Lordaeron in the end. Rolandius (talk - contr) 13:39, 31 July 2008 (UTC)

It's an accepted fact that lore-wise, the humans won WarCraft II, the orc ending is non-canonical (if anyone reading this DARES to use the term Flavor Lore, they're banned). See if you can slip it in on Warcraft II: Tides of Darkness. --Ragestorm (talk · contr) 13:56, 31 July 2008 (UTC)

I know that is why I said that Warcraft II: Beyond the Dark Portal uses the Human outcome of Warcraft II: Tides of Darkness as the right one. Okay I will try to put it on that page you suggested. Rolandius

(talk - contr) 15:24, 31 July 2008 (UTC)

Well actually there is a Lordaeron (WC2) section in the article. Its placement should probably moved towards the end (as such sections are in other articles), but its definitely the place to show alternate outcomes, and all uses of Lordaeron in Warcraft II.Baggins (talk) 15:32, 31 July 2008 (UTC)

Okay. Well I put it on the page Warcraft II: Tides of Darkness already so I guess if someone wants to copy it onto the page Kingdom of Lordaeron they know where to put it now. Rolandius

(talk - contr) 15:39, 31 July 2008 (UTC)

Well the problem with your previous addition to this topic as Ragestorm pointed out was that all you added was essentially the outcome to the game, and that you didn't even discuss Lordaeron. What you typed was more of an explanation of the game, or a rough explanation of Horde, and Alliance outcomes, than having anything to do with Lordaeron alone.Baggins (talk) 15:55, 31 July 2008 (UTC)

Ya I know. I didn't want to make it too long by mentioning all the forces of the Alliance so I just wrote Human Campaign. Rolandius

(talk - contr) 16:07, 31 July 2008 (UTC)

Speculation (recovered from removal and put here)

This article or section includes speculation, observations or opinions possibly supported by lore or by Blizzard officials. It should not be taken as representing official lore.

Azeroth = Lordaeron (past)

Lordaeron seems to have been named Azeroth previously. Lands of Conflict made a few references that imply that the continent of Lordaeron, before it was named that, was named Azeroth. This could be true since the kingdom of Lordaeron, and subsequently the continent of Lordaeron, came along much later in history than the start of the Empire of Arathor. This would also fit because a group left Stromgarde to create the kingdom of Azeroth further south and subsequently named that continent Azeroth, which by this time the northern continent would have been named Lordaeron after the kingdom of Lordaeron's rise and Arathor's decline in the more recent past. The group that left Stromagarde were heirs of King Thoradin and may have named their kingdom, and the new continent Azeroth, in honor of their past glory when the Empire of Arathor was the greatest force in all the known lands.

...the Arathi assured them the land would always belong to all peoples and named the land as a whole in homage to their ancient ancestors: Azeroth."^[1]
...some of the survivors had made their way to northern Azeroth and established a new kingdom, called Quel’Thalas...", ^[2]
...The humans, on the other hand, spent centuries expanding their borders until the Empire of Arathor nearly covered Azeroth.", ^[3]

symbol

What is the symbol of loarderan cuz i have know clue -IloveWhitemane

It's a highly stylized L. -- Dark T Zeratul (talk) 00:28, September 17, 2009 (UTC)

In Warcraft II, it looks like it has an ankh through it (I thought so for some reason), but Arthas: Rise of the Lich King confirms it is a sword.--SWM24 48 00:53, September 17, 2009 (UTC)

The Many Lordaerons

This page does not really make it clear that, as with Azeroth, Lordaeron means several things. It means both a city, a nation, and a continent. Now which comes first is a biot wierd, because why name a continent after one city state (the others would not think much of the idea), but if the continent was named first (land of the peacful people, or some such phrase) why would a new city, founded by nobles from strom, name itself after the landmass onwhich all the peoples of the kingdom of Arathor dwelt at the time. It makes little sence really, and i prefer to call the region Arathor for my own purposes, but as Lordaeron is Cannon, i think this fact should be made more clear on the page. gadget (talk) 01:33, September 17, 2009 (UTC)

take it back

why has the alliance done nothing to take it back and have excluted the people who are trying to (The scarlet cruaide) i side with the scarlet cruaide i want Lordaeron back lol User:IloveWhitemane

Because most of the land is likely inhospitable because of the Scourge, there are a bunch of dead people milling about the capital who wouldn't be too happy if you tried to take their relatively new home away from them, and even more dead people wandering around the wilderness. Also, I hate to be a spoilsport but you really ought to take this to the forums. The staff might get a little cranky. --Super Bhaal (talk) 02:36, November 19, 2009 (UTC)

Picture

We need a picture of the city from when Medivh arrived. BobNamataki (talk) 11:27, November 19, 2009 (UTC)

File:Lordaeroncity.jpg already exists.. --N'Nanz (talk) 11:39, November 19, 2009 (UTC)

Continent ≠ Kingdom

I don't know why the continent of Lordaeron is in the same article of the Kingdom of Lordaeron. The CONTINENT are the Eastern and Western plaguelands (Scourge), Tirisfal Glades and Silverpine Forest (Forsaken, Horde). The only place that the alliance control is Gilneas. The KINGDOM of Lordaeron was Tirisfal Glades, Silverpine Forest, and the place around Stratholme, Andorhal,etc. But Alterac, Dalaran, Gilneas, etc wasn't part of Kingdom of Lordaeron. --Edhu9 (talk) 03:35, May 20, 2010 (UTC)

It could be split, but it may be a messy one based on the current layout of the page. The continent includes everything connected to the mass of land north of the Thandol Span (except sometimes Quel'Thalas). The kingdom was what is now Tirisfal Glades, the Western Plaguelands, the Eastern Plaguelands, Silverpine Forest, and Hillsbrad Foothills (minus Dalaran and Alterac).--SWM24 48 03:50, May 20, 2010 (UTC)

I agree it may be not that easy, but it is confusing that both terms are mixed in the same article. As you have stated, they include different areas; furthermore, they refer to different things. I think we should start thinking on how to split it.--Sega381 (talk) 01:39, May 21, 2010 (UTC)

Was just wondering the same thing. Does anyonw have any good reason why the article shouldn't be split? Just giving people a chance to speak up now.Warthok Talk Contribs 19:42, July 20, 2010 (UTC)

Agreed for a split, like Stormwind

Loremaster A'noob, Arch Druid of the Noobhoof Clan (^talk/_contribz) 19:52, July 20, 2010 (UTC)

I agree that as they are different topics they should be moved into different articles. (Science765 (talk) 19:53, July 20, 2010 (UTC))

Shall I (or someone else) then fill in the pages like Lordaeron (continent), Lordaeron (kingdom) ect. in stead of letting them redirect here? ( Luxor (t•c) 17:06, 4 April 2011 (UTC))

Will Lordareon be reestablised in Cataclysm?

Ive been wondering if in Cataclysm Lordareon will be restablished. Will it be a member of the Alliance in Cata or will it be under the control of Stormwind or under Stormwind military control or under control by the Alliance military. Or will it be a protectorate or colony of the Alliance or Stormwind? And will Lordaeron refugees their way back to Lordareon? And who will rule a possibly reborn Lordareon? Arthas sister or somebody else? And also since the nation of Theramoore is basically just a island a few military towers and one outpost and since the Alliance reclaimed part of Andorhall and some of Lordaerons territorty didnt fall to the Scourage and also the Alliance will probably reclaim more territory from the former western plaguelands by the time Cata is launched so I think the possible reborn Lordareon will have enough land to consitute a kingdom. Rimor Conscientia (talk) 03:13, July 11, 2010 (UTC)

The kingdom of Lordaeron is done. It's not coming back. The territory belongs to the Forsaken. And any remaining members are either with Stormwind or another human nation now.

(^Sssss/_Slithered) 04:26, July 11, 2010 (UTC)

Edit

Hasn't a lot of content been lost with this edit? Like the table of leader, etc...

Loremaster A'noob, Arch Druid of the Noobhoof Clan (^talk/_contribz) 19:33, July 20, 2010 (UTC)

I already replaced the zonebox with the old version (because Lordaeron is no longer a human kingdom), but the rest seemed to be just tightening up the text. If someone else feels it should be reverted, though, go for it. -- Dark T Zeratul (talk) 19:41, July 20, 2010 (UTC)

Leaders' table at least. I start reading the rest

Loremaster A'noob, Arch Druid of the Noobhoof Clan (^talk/_contribz) 19:43, July 20, 2010 (UTC)

Alliance territory? Really? ...

I quite strongly suggest sticking the "neutral" or "contested" marker over the info box, seeing as it is frankly misleading otherwise. The Alliance has become by and large one of the weakest forces within the dead kingdom of Lordaeron, which is highly contested between the Forsaken, the Argent Crusade, the Scourge remnants, the Scarlet Crusade, and then the Alliance.

I'm aware of how potent rose tinted goggles are, but it's not Alliance territory anymore. Lordaeron is the epitome of what it means to be "contested territory", with several factions completely unaffiliated with the Alliance or Horde also staking a claim to it. This has become glaringly obvious as of Cataclysm. Grissom (talk) 09:45, 5 February 2011 (UTC)

This page isn't based exclusively on the status of the territory, nor is it based on the balance of power within the former nations territory. It also includes aspects of it such as history, lore, and role thus far in the storyline of the Warcraft universe. For the entirety of the time that the kingdom stood, it was an Alliance kingdom, and the actions done from the kingdom were in the name of the Alliance. If you wish to speak exclusively on the state of the territory, I suggest you make a new page for the continent rather than attempting to twist the article for the kingdom to fit your own perception of the lore. Fojar38 (talk) 22:40, 12 February 2011 (UTC)

[1] Lands of Conflict, 18

[2] Lands of Conflict, 18

[3] Lands of Conflict, 18

[1]

[2]

[3]

@@ Line 1: / Line 1: @@
+== Old discussion ==
-{{source needed}}
-{{Npcbox
-|image = Humanmale nopic.jpg
-|name = Sergeant
-|gender = Male
-|race = Human
-|creature = Humanoid
-|affiliation = [[Durnholde Keep]]
-|faction = Alliance
-|character = [[Warrior]]
-|occupation = Warrior trainer
-|students = [[Maridan]], [[Thrall]]
-|location = Unknown
-|status = Unknown
-|relatives =
-}}
-{{Novel}}
+Where should I put the information then? Lordaeron is a part of the human forces. If your the humans, you are victorius. If you are the orcs, you destroy Lordaeron in the end.    &nbsp;[[User:Rolandius|Rolandius]]&nbsp;[[Image:Paladin.gif|25x25px]]&nbsp;<small>([[User talk:Rolandius|<span title="Rolandius's Talk">talk</span>]]&nbsp;-&nbsp;[[Special:Contributions/Rolandius|<span title="Rolandius's Contributions">contr</span>]])</small> 13:39, 31 July 2008 (UTC)
-'''Sergeant''' was the [[warrior trainer]] of [[Durnholde Keep]] at the time of [[Thrall]]'s imprisonment there. The real name of "Sergeant" is unknown, but he is described as "huge by human standards", easily over six feet tall. He had red hair, with a long beard, a barrel-chest and wore a black scarf and an earring in his left ear. Although a tough seasoned fighter, he let his recruits know who was in charge, but also kept a sense of compassion for them.
+:It's an accepted fact that lore-wise, the humans won WarCraft II, the orc ending is non-canonical (if anyone reading this DARES to use the term Flavor Lore, they're banned). See if you can slip it in on [[Warcraft II: Tides of Darkness]]. --[[User:Ragestorm|<span style="border-bottom:1px dotted; cursor:help;" title="Admin">Ragestorm</span>]] <small>([[User talk:Ragestorm|talk]] &middot; [[Special:Contributions/Ragestorm|contr]])</small> 13:56, 31 July 2008 (UTC)
-==Early training with Thrall==
-Sergeant came to the attention of one [[Aedelas Blackmoore]] after the lieutenant had found the orcling Thrall next to his murdered father ([[Durotan]]) and mother ([[Draka]]), along with one of [[Orgrim Doomhammer]]'s traitorous guards. On the first day of training with Thrall and his other recruits, Sergeant said that the earring he wore had not been removed for thirteen years, and that with each group of recruits he issued a challenge to rip the ring out of his ear. If a recruit were to do so, he would allow them to beat him to a pulp. Thrall knocked Sergeant to the ground and in his [[bloodlust]] nearly snapped his neck in a duel. He said that was the closest any of his recruits ever came to removing the earring. This incident also introduced the young orc to the concepts of mercy and honor. After this incident, Sergeant suggested to Blackmoore that Thrall be given military history books to read, to better understand tactics and strategy.
+::I know that is why I said that Warcraft II: Beyond the Dark Portal uses the Human outcome of Warcraft II: Tides of Darkness as the right one. Okay I will try to put it on that page you suggested.    &nbsp;[[User:Rolandius|Rolandius]]&nbsp;[[Image:Paladin.gif|25x25px]]&nbsp;<small>([[User talk:Rolandius|<span title="Rolandius's Talk">talk</span>]]&nbsp;-&nbsp;[[Special:Contributions/Rolandius|<span title="Rolandius's Contributions">contr</span>]])</small> 15:24, 31 July 2008 (UTC)
-Years later, Sergeant and his trainees were conducting a drill where twelve of his men — armored and armed — would take on a "wild orc" (Thrall playing the part of the [[orc]], naturally) when several orcs being transported to the camps broke loose. One of them, thinking that the men were actually attacking the young orc, shouted in [[Orcish]] for Thrall to flee, that he would protect him; Thrall did not understand much Orcish, and thus misinterpreted the orc's actions as an attack. Sergeant and his men attacked and killed the orc, but the warning he had tried to give burned into Thrall's brain.
+:::Well actually there is a Lordaeron (WC2) section in the article. Its placement should probably moved towards the end (as such sections are in other articles), but its definitely the place to show alternate outcomes, and all uses of Lordaeron in Warcraft II.[[User:Baggins|Baggins]] ([[User talk:Baggins|talk]]) 15:32, 31 July 2008 (UTC)
-==The defense of Durnholde==
-When Thrall became [[Warchief]] and led the new [[Horde]] to the gates of Durnholde, Sergeant believed that, in accordance with etiquette, they should parley with the [[Warchief]] — at least long enough for the reinforcements called in by Blackmoore to arrive. However, Blackmoore sealed Durnholde's doom by throwing the head of his mistress, Thrall's friend [[Taretha Foxton]], to the ground at the Warchief's feet. With Blackmoore incapacitated by his drunkenness, and his lieutenant, [[Karramyn Langston]], a weakling and a coward, Sergeant conducted the defense of Durnholde himself. In the end, the numerical superiority and brute strength of the Horde won the day; by the battle's end, Blackmoore was dead and the fortress in the hands of the Horde.
+::::Okay. Well I put it on the page [[Warcraft II: Tides of Darkness]] already so I guess if someone wants to copy it onto the page [[Kingdom of Lordaeron]] they know where to put it now.    &nbsp;[[User:Rolandius|Rolandius]]&nbsp;[[Image:Paladin.gif|25x25px]]&nbsp;<small>([[User talk:Rolandius|<span title="Rolandius's Talk">talk</span>]]&nbsp;-&nbsp;[[Special:Contributions/Rolandius|<span title="Rolandius's Contributions">contr</span>]])</small> 15:39, 31 July 2008 (UTC)
-After the battle ended, Thrall approached Sergeant's group of survivors, and quickly grasped the earring in Sergeant's left ear... then left it in place. In exchange for Thrall's promise that they would be spared, Sergeant and his men disarmed and were allowed to go free.
+::Well the problem with your previous addition to this topic as Ragestorm pointed out was that all you added was essentially the outcome to the game, and that you didn't even discuss Lordaeron. What you typed was more of an explanation of the game, or a rough explanation of Horde, and Alliance outcomes, than having anything to do with Lordaeron alone.[[User:Baggins|Baggins]] ([[User talk:Baggins|talk]]) 15:55, 31 July 2008 (UTC)
-Sergeant's fate after the fall of Durnholde is unknown.
+:::Ya I know. I didn't want to make it too long by mentioning all the forces of the Alliance so I just wrote Human Campaign.    &nbsp;[[User:Rolandius|Rolandius]]&nbsp;[[Image:Paladin.gif|25x25px]]&nbsp;<small>([[User talk:Rolandius|<span title="Rolandius's Talk">talk</span>]]&nbsp;-&nbsp;[[Special:Contributions/Rolandius|<span title="Rolandius's Contributions">contr</span>]])</small> 16:07, 31 July 2008 (UTC)
-[[Category:Humans]]
-[[Category:Warriors]]
+==Speculation (recovered from removal and put here)==
-[[Category:Warcraft: Lord of the Clans characters]]
+{{speculation}}
+=== Azeroth = Lordaeron (past) ===
+Lordaeron seems to have been named Azeroth previously. ''Lands of Conflict'' made a few references that imply that the continent of Lordaeron, before it was named that, was named Azeroth. This could be true since the kingdom of Lordaeron, and subsequently the continent of Lordaeron, came along much later in history than the start of the [[Empire of Arathor]]. This would also fit because a group left [[Stromgarde]] to create the kingdom of Azeroth further south and subsequently named that continent Azeroth, which by this time the northern continent would have been named Lordaeron after the kingdom of Lordaeron's rise and [[Arathor]]'s decline in the more recent past. The group that left Stromagarde were heirs of King [[Thoradin]] and may have named their kingdom, and the new continent Azeroth, in honor of their past glory when the Empire of Arathor was the greatest force in all the known lands.
+*...the Arathi assured them the land would always belong to all peoples and named the land as a whole in homage to their ancient ancestors: Azeroth."<ref>[[Lands of Conflict]], 18</ref>
+*...some of the survivors had made their way to northern Azeroth and established a new kingdom, called Quel’Thalas...", <ref>[[Lands of Conflict]], 18</ref>
+*...The humans, on the other hand, spent centuries expanding their borders until the Empire of Arathor nearly covered Azeroth.", <ref>[[Lands of Conflict]], 18</ref>
+{{reflist}}
+== symbol ==
+What is the symbol of loarderan cuz i have know clue -IloveWhitemane
+:It's a highly stylized L. -- [[User:Dark T Zeratul|Dark T Zeratul]] ([[User talk:Dark T Zeratul|talk]]) 00:28, September 17, 2009 (UTC)
+::In Warcraft II, it looks like it has an ankh through it (I thought so for some reason), but Arthas: Rise of the Lich King confirms it is a sword.--{{User:Sandwichman2448/Sig}} 00:53, September 17, 2009 (UTC)
+==The Many Lordaerons==
+This page does not really make it clear that, as with Azeroth, Lordaeron means several things. It means both a city, a nation, and a continent. Now which comes first is a biot wierd, because why name a continent after one city state (the others would not think much of the idea), but if the continent was named first (land of the peacful people, or some such phrase) why would a new city, founded by nobles from strom, name itself after the landmass onwhich all the peoples of the kingdom of Arathor dwelt at the time. It makes little sence really, and i prefer to call the region Arathor for my own purposes, but as Lordaeron is Cannon, i think this fact should be made more clear on the page.
+[[User:Gadgetfingers|gadget]] ([[User talk:Gadgetfingers|talk]]) 01:33, September 17, 2009 (UTC)
+== take it back  ==
+why has the alliance done nothing to take it back and have excluted the people who are trying to (The scarlet cruaide) i side with the scarlet cruaide i want Lordaeron back lol
+[[User:IloveWhitemane]]
+: Because most of the land is likely inhospitable because of the Scourge, there are a bunch of dead people milling about the capital who wouldn't be too happy if you tried to take their relatively new home away from them, and even more dead people wandering around the wilderness.  Also, I hate to be a spoilsport but you really ought to take this to the forums.  The staff might get a little cranky.  --[[User:Super Bhaal|Super Bhaal]] ([[User talk:Super Bhaal|talk]]) 02:36, November 19, 2009 (UTC)
+== Picture ==
+We need a picture of the city from when Medivh arrived. [[User:BobNamataki|BobNamataki]] ([[User talk:BobNamataki|talk]]) 11:27, November 19, 2009 (UTC)
+[[:File:Lordaeroncity.jpg]] already exists.. --[[User:N&#39;Nanz|N&#39;Nanz]] ([[User talk:N&#39;Nanz|talk]]) 11:39, November 19, 2009 (UTC)
+==Continent ≠ Kingdom ==
+I don't know why the continent of Lordaeron is in the same article of the Kingdom of Lordaeron. The CONTINENT are the Eastern and Western plaguelands (Scourge), Tirisfal Glades and Silverpine Forest (Forsaken, Horde). The only place that the alliance control is Gilneas. The KINGDOM of Lordaeron was Tirisfal Glades, Silverpine Forest, and the place around Stratholme, Andorhal,etc. But Alterac, Dalaran, Gilneas, etc wasn't part of Kingdom of Lordaeron.
+--[[User:Edhu9|Edhu9]] ([[User talk:Edhu9|talk]]) 03:35, May 20, 2010 (UTC)
+:It could be split, but it may be a messy one based on the current layout of the page. The continent includes everything connected to the mass of land north of the Thandol Span (except sometimes Quel'Thalas). The kingdom was what is now Tirisfal Glades, the Western Plaguelands, the Eastern Plaguelands, Silverpine Forest, and Hillsbrad Foothills (minus Dalaran and Alterac).--{{User:Sandwichman2448/Sig}} 03:50, May 20, 2010 (UTC)
+::I agree it may be not that easy, but it is confusing that both terms are mixed in the same article. As you have stated, they include different areas; furthermore, they refer to different things. I think we should start thinking on how to split it.--[[User:Sega381|Sega381]] ([[User talk:Sega381|talk]]) 01:39, May 21, 2010 (UTC)
+:::Was just wondering the same thing. Does anyonw have any good reason why the article shouldn't be split? Just giving people a chance to speak up now.{{User:Warthok/Sig}} 19:42, July 20, 2010 (UTC)
+:Agreed for a split, like Stormwind
+:{{User:A'noob/sig}} 19:52, July 20, 2010 (UTC)
+::I agree that as they are different topics they should be moved into different articles. ([[User:Science765|Science765]] ([[User talk:Science765|talk]]) 19:53, July 20, 2010 (UTC))
+Shall I (or someone else) then fill in the pages like [[Lordaeron (continent)]], [[Lordaeron (kingdom)]] ect. in stead of letting them redirect here? ([[Image:Icon{{#ifeq:{{lc:{{{3}}}}}|large|Large|Small}} {{#switch:{{lc:Worgen}}
+|ne|nightelf|night elf={{#ifeq:{{lc:{{{3}}}}}|large|NightElf|Night Elf}}
+|be|bloodelf|blood elf={{#ifeq:{{lc:{{{3}}}}}|large|BloodElf|Blood Elf}}
+|he|highelf|high elf={{#ifeq:{{lc:{{{3}}}}}|large|HighElf|High Elf}}
+|undeadelf|undeadElf|undead elf={{#ifeq:{{lc:{{{3}}}}}|large|Undead Elf|UndeadElf}}
+|#default={{ucfirst:Worgen}}}} {{#ifeq:{{lc:Male}}|female|Female|Male}}.gif|Worgen {{lc:Male}}]] [[User:Luxor|Luxor]] ([[User talk:Luxor|t]]•[[Special:Contributions/Luxor|c]]) 17:06, 4 April 2011 (UTC))
+== Will Lordareon be reestablised in Cataclysm?  ==
+Ive been wondering if in Cataclysm Lordareon will be restablished. Will it be a member of the Alliance in Cata or will it be under the control of Stormwind or under Stormwind military control or under control by the Alliance military. Or will it be a protectorate or colony of the Alliance or Stormwind? And will Lordaeron refugees their way back to Lordareon? And who will rule a possibly reborn Lordareon? Arthas sister or somebody else? And also since the nation of Theramoore is basically just a island a few military towers and one outpost and since the Alliance reclaimed part of Andorhall and some of Lordaerons territorty didnt fall to the Scourage and also the Alliance will probably reclaim more territory from the former western plaguelands by the time Cata is launched so I think the possible reborn Lordareon will have enough land to consitute a kingdom. [[User:Rimor Conscientia|Rimor Conscientia]] ([[User talk:Rimor Conscientia|talk]]) 03:13, July 11, 2010 (UTC)
+:The kingdom of Lordaeron is done. It's not coming back. The territory belongs to the Forsaken. And any remaining members are either with Stormwind or another human nation now. {{User:Coobra/Sig4}} 04:26, July 11, 2010 (UTC)
+==Edit==
+Hasn't a lot of content been lost with [http://www.wowwiki.com/index.php?title=Lordaeron&curid=15134&diff=2330845&oldid=2330579 this edit]? Like the table of leader, etc...
+{{User:A'noob/sig}} 19:33, July 20, 2010 (UTC)
+:I already replaced the zonebox with the old version (because Lordaeron is no longer a human kingdom), but the rest seemed to be just tightening up the text. If someone else feels it should be reverted, though, go for it. -- [[User:Dark T Zeratul|Dark T Zeratul]] ([[User talk:Dark T Zeratul|talk]]) 19:41, July 20, 2010 (UTC)
+:Leaders' table at least. I start reading the rest
+:{{User:A'noob/sig}} 19:43, July 20, 2010 (UTC)
+== Alliance territory? Really? ... ==
+I quite strongly suggest sticking the "neutral" or "contested" marker over the info box, seeing as it is frankly misleading otherwise. The Alliance has become by and large one of the weakest forces within the dead kingdom of Lordaeron, which is highly contested between the Forsaken, the Argent Crusade, the Scourge remnants, the Scarlet Crusade, and then the Alliance.
+I'm aware of how potent rose tinted goggles are, but it's not Alliance territory anymore. Lordaeron is the epitome of what it means to be "contested territory", with several factions completely unaffiliated with the Alliance or Horde also staking a claim to it. This has become glaringly obvious as of Cataclysm. [[User:Grissom|Grissom]] ([[User talk:Grissom|talk]]) 09:45, 5 February 2011 (UTC)
+:This page isn't based exclusively on the status of the territory, nor is it based on the balance of power within the former nations territory. It also includes aspects of it such as history, lore, and role thus far in the storyline of the Warcraft universe. For the entirety of the time that the kingdom stood, it was an Alliance kingdom, and the actions done from the kingdom were in the name of the Alliance. If you wish to speak exclusively on the state of the territory, I suggest you make a new page for the continent rather than attempting to twist the article for the kingdom to fit your own perception of the lore. [[User:Fojar38|Fojar38]] ([[User talk:Fojar38|talk]]) 22:40, 12 February 2011 (UTC)

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