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{{Talkheader}}
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[[Patch 2.0.1]] introduced a new mechanic: '''combat ratings'''. These ratings are for combat stats (on items) that were previously percentage-based. Such as: critical strike chance, hit chance, dodge chance and defense skill. They were introduced because percentage based itemization would have scaled excessively when [[The Burning Crusade]] was released and the player [[cap]] rose to 70.
  
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{{tocright}}
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{{Archives|October 2007 - June 2010}}
   
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==Requests==
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== Combat Rating types ==
  
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:{{Icon-information}} ''Requests for new icons should be placed here.''
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The following combat ratings are currently in use:
  
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''When making a request, please bear in mind the usefulness of the icon, in other words will it be used? Generally NYI races/creatures should not be requested as making the icon does require some sort of image to work off of. Creatures of similar nature or different skin/fur colors should also not be requested, for example we don't need a icon for polar bears, black bears, and brown bears.''
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{| class="darktable"
  
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|- valign="top"
  
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|
  
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* [[Armor Penetration|Armor penetration rating]]
  
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* [[Formulas:Block|Block rating]]
  
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* [[Critical strike|Critical strike rating]]
  
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* [[Defense|Defense rating]]
  
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* [[Formulas:Dodge|Dodge rating]]
  
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|
  
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* [[Expertise|Expertise rating]]
  
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* [[Haste|Haste rating]]
  
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* [[Hit|Hit rating]]
  
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* [[Formulas:Parry|Parry rating]]
  
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* [[#Resilience|Resilience rating]]
  
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|
  
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'''Deprecated'''<ref>[[Patch 3.0.2]]</ref>
  
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* [[Spell hit|Spell hit rating]]
  
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* [[Spell critical strike|Spell critical strike rating]]
  
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* [[Spell haste|Spell haste rating]]
  
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* [[Formulas:Weapon Skill|Weapon skill rating]]
  
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|}
  
   
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'''Addendum:''' ''Don't request icons of content that hasn't gone live yet.''
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=== Combat skills ===
  
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{{seealso|Critical strike|Spell critical strike}}
  
   
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{| width="75%"
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Unlike fixed percentages such as 2% critical strike chance, combat ratings diminish in potency as your character increases in level. 2% crit is the same at every level, while 28 critical strike rating grants 4% crit at level 34, 2% crit at level 60, and 1.27% crit at level 70. This allows [[Blizzard Entertainment|Blizzard]] the ability to create and add new and better items to the world without eventually reaching a point where every character has a 100% chance to critically strike.
  
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|-
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|valign="top" width="25%"|
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===Humanoid===
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*Female [[Tigon]](preferably the one with the black skin)
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===Undead===
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*[[Goblin Zombie]]
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*[[Rotting Frost Giant]]
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*[[Reins of the Spectral Steed|Spectral Steed]]
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*[[Reins of the Spectral Wolf|Spectral Wolf]]
   
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===Beasts===
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*Cataclysm [[Raven]]
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*Cataclysm [[Crocolisk]]
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*[[:Summon Great Exarch's Elekk|Great Exarch's Elekk]]
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*[[Sunwalker Kodo]]
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*[[Stormcrest Eagle]]
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*[[Venomhide Ravasaur]]
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*[[Wintersaber]]
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|valign="top" width="25%"|
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===Dragonkin===
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*Azure dragonspawn
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*Azure dragonwhelp
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*Azure drakonid
   
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===Elementals/Contructs===
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Below are the conversion for level 60, level 70, and level 80 combat skills:
  
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*[[Elementium Monstrosity]]
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*[[Corrupted Ancient]]
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*[[:Dark Phoenix Hatchling]]
   
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===Other===
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{| class="darktable"
  
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*[[Tentacle of Isorath]] http://www.wowhead.com/npc=45394/
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|-
  
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*Drakkari God Statues (the statues of Zim'torga, zim'rhuk, Zim'abwa or Dubra'jin)
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!rowspan="2"|Rating
  
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|valign="top" width="25%"|
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!rowspan="2"|Effect
  
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===Giants===
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!colspan="3"|Requires
  
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*<span title="Orange-browney rock with green mint moss" {{#ifeq:yes|no||style="border-bottom:2px dotted"}} class="help">[[Hill giant]]</span>
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|-
  
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! Level 60 !! Level 70 !! Level 80
  
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===Mechanical/Animated objects===
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|-
  
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*[[:Gnomish Flame Turret]]
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| [[Expertise]] || -1% Dodge/Parry || 10 || 15.77 || 32.79
  
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*[[:Goblin Land Mine]]
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|-
  
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*[[Unholy Swords]]
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| [[Hit|Melee Hit]] || 1% hit chance || 10 ||15.77 || 32.79
  
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*[[Unholy Axe]]
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|-
  
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*[[Unholy Staff]]
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| [[Spell Hit]] || 1% spell hit chance || 8 || 12.62 || 26.23
  
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*[[:Crashin' Thrashin' Racer]]
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|-
  
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*Gnome racer
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| [[Critical Strike]] || 1% critical strike chance || 14 || 22.08 || 45.91
  
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*Horde Caravan (If i remember correctly it's the Silverpine Caravan)
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|-
  
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| [[Haste]] || 1% haste || 10 || 15.77 || 32.79
  
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|-
  
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| [[Armor Penetration]] || 1% armor ignored || 3.75 || 5.92 || 12.31
  
 
|}
  
|}
   
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=== Removal replies ===
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Prior to [[patch 2.0.1]], Weapon Skill reduced the percentage of damage lost due to glancing blows.
  
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:''Please do not respond here, start a new section at the bottom if removal is disputed.''
   
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;Removed: [[Clockwerk goblin]], [[Ancient of Wind]], [[Ancient of Wonder]], [[Tree of Life|Tree of Life/Ages/Eternity]], [[Mur'ghoul]] and [[Mutant murloc]]
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Between patch 2.0.1 and [[patch 2.3]], Weapon Skill gave player +0.1% to their critical strike rating per weapon skill against monsters above their level.
  
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:The models are on WC3 and not WOW
   
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;Removed: [[Boat]], [[Deeprun Tram]], [[Zeppelin]], Horde Submarine, Alliance Submarine, Big Bomb, [[Orb of Translocation]]
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As of patch 2.3, all items which previously had Weapon Skill Rating or Feral Combat Rating now have an equal amount of [[Formulas:Expertise|Expertise]] Rating.
  
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:Would serve no purpose.
   
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;Removed: [[Incubus]]
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From the 2.3 PTR patch notes:
  
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:Have no graphics that can be used for icons.
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"We have added a new stat and associated rating called expertise and expertise rating. Expertise rating converts to expertise at the same rate that weapon skill rating formerly converted at. Each point of expertise reduces the chance for your attacks to be dodged or parried by 0.25%."
  
   
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;Removed: Female [[Dragonspawn]] (dragonspawn casters are female)
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[[Patch 3.1]] increased the effectiveness of armor penetration rating by 25%.
  
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:No Proof, except for slender form, and the breasts.
   
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;Removed: [[Mechanical Yeti]], Jewelcrafting Boar, [[Mechanical Greench]], and [[Lifelike Mechanical Toad]]. /
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Unlike Weapon/Feral Combat Rating, Expertise does not have diminishing returns beyond 20 rating. For players, this means that once the hit cap has been reached, one can begin stacking Expertise to increase damage potential against mobs with high dodge/parry. Melee DPS classes won't benefit much from the -parry (as they should be behind the target), however dodges do make up a considerable chunk of lost damage. Druid tanking items with Expertise, such as Earthwarden, will be more valuable for consistent threat generation since a parried/dodged Mangle can be devastating.
  
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:They have no distinct look from the actual creatures they portray.
   
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;Removed: [[Felboar]] / [[Mage Slayer]] / [[Baby Blizzard Bear]] / Onyxian whelpling and Onyxian Drake.
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Since Expertise is 'capped' by the target's chance to dodge/parry, the ideal rating varies per mob. The average level 73 boss has a 6.5% chance to dodge. Completely negating a 6.5% chance to dodge would require 102 Expertise rating at level 70, assuming the character had no talents which reduced his target's dodge chance.
  
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:Felboar can use {{RaceIconExt|Helboar}} / Mage slayer can use {{RaceIconExt|Darkhound}} / Baby Blizzard Bears can use {{RaceIconExt|Bear}}. / Onyxian Whelpling and Drake can use {{RaceIconExt|WhelpBlack}} {{RaceIconExt|DrakeBlack}}
   
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<!--Trying to keep things clean and organized, these sections are getting all over the place. Please make a new post at the bottom to dispute removals.-->
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=== Defense skills ===
  
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{{wikify|This should be moved into a "Patch changes" section at the bottom, and the {{t|Patched}} template should be used.}}
  
   
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=== Completed requests ===
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The impact on the defense skill system is slightly more complicated. This skill actually grants a percentage-based benefit already; every 25 points of defense skill grants a 1% dodge chance, 1% parry chance, 1% block chance, 1% increased chance to be missed and 1% decreased chance to be critically hit by physical attacks.
  
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{{col-begin}}
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{{col-auto}}<s>
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*{{RaceIconExt|GemstoneColossus}}[[Gemstone colossus]]
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*{{RaceIconExt|TitanicGuardian}}[[Titanic Guardian]]</s>
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{{col-auto}}<s>
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*{{RaceIcon|ChaosOrc|Male}}{{RaceIcon|ChaosOrc|Female}}[[Chaos Orc]]
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*{{RaceIconExt|NorthrendGhoul}}Northrend Ghoul
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*{{RaceIconExt|AncientofArcane}}[[Ancient of Arcane]]
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*{{RaceIconExt|BoneGiant}}[[Bone Giant]]
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*{{RaceIconExt|Tol'vir}}[[Tol'vir]]
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*{{RaceIconExt|Ramkahen}}[[Ramkahen]]
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*{{RaceIconExt|CelestialSteed}}[[:Celestial Steed]]
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*{{RaceIconExt|GoldenKing}}[[:Reins of the Golden King]]
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*{{RaceIconExt|Kor'kronAnnihilator}}[[:Reins of the Kor'kron Annihilator]]
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*{{RaceIconExt|WaterLord}}[[Neptulon]] Water lord
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*{{RaceIconExt|Mimiron'sHead}}[[:Mimiron's Head]]
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*{{RaceIconExt|GuardianofAncientKings}}[[:Guardian of Ancient Kings]]
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*{{RaceIconExt|Sunflower}}[[:Brazie's Sunflower Seeds]] Sunflower
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*{{RaceIconExt|AirLord}}[[Al'akir]] Air lord</s>
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{{col-auto}}<s>
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*{{RaceIconExt|Hand}}Crawling hand
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*{{RaceIconExt|DrakeStone}}Deepholme Drake
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*{{RaceIconExt|DrakeStorm}}Skywall Dragon
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*{{RaceIconExt|MercilessOne}}[[Merciless one]]
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*{{RaceIconExt|Cannon}}[[Blockade Cannon]] (normal cannon)
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*{{RaceIconExt|TargetDummy}}[[:Target Dummy]] - [[Love Fool]]
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*{{RaceIconExt|Tiki}}[[Enchanted Tiki Dervish]]
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*{{RaceIcon|Aesir|Male}}{{RaceIcon|Aesir|Female}}[[Aesir]]
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*{{RaceIcon|Titan|Male}}{{RaceIcon|Titan|Female}}[[Vanir]]
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*{{RaceIconExt|Unicorn}}[[Unicorn]]
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*{{RaceIconExt|CannonBrass}}[[Alliance Gunship Cannon]] (brass cannon)
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*{{RaceIconExt|TitanOrb}}Titan [[Databank]] (titan orb)
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*{{RaceIconExt|CannonFlak}}[[Horde Gunship Cannon]] (flak cannon)
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*{{RaceIconExt|SiegeTurret}}Flame turret (siege turret)</s>
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{{col-end}}
   
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==Latest Update List==
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Below are the defense rating values needed to achieve 1% of each effect:
  
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A list of new models from latest update, which is ''Cataclysm 4.0'' and Ptr of 4.1:
   
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{{Col-begin}}
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==== From Patch 2.1 through Patch 3.1.3 ====
  
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{{Col-auto}}
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*Unfinished
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**{{RaceIconExt|}} Cataclysm Crocolisk
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**{{RaceIconExt|}} Cataclysm Raven
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**{{RaceIconExt|}} Exarch Elekk
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**{{RaceIconExt|}} Sunwalker Kodo
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**{{RaceIconExt|}} Faceless one mount
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**{{RaceIconExt|}} Spectral Steed
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**{{RaceIconExt|}} Spectral Wolf
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**{{RaceIconExt|}} Goblin Zombie
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**{{RaceIconExt|}} Dark Phoenix Hatchling
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**{{RaceIconExt|}} Elementium Monstrosity
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**{{RaceIconExt|}} Horde Caravan
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**{{RaceIconExt|}} Big Bomb
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**{{RaceIconExt|}} Horde Submarine
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**{{RaceIconExt|}} Alliance Submarine
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**{{RaceIconExt|}} Tentacle of Isorath
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{{Col-auto}}
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*Beasts
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**{{RaceIconExt|}} Big Cats Cub ( the five models after ragnaros, are of Big cats cubs[http://ptr.wowhead.com/blog=183590/patch-4-1-ptr-build-13682-3d-models-ragnaros-and-kitties the five models after ragnaros are of Big cats cubs])
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**{{RaceIconExt|}} [http://ptr.wowhead.com/item=69846 Winged Guardian]
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{{Col-end}}
   
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==Cataclysm Icons==
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{| class="darktable"
  
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When can we start asking for cataclysm icons? when it releases accordying to assumptions we already have a ettin model(it's a two headed giant with a roof as a shoulder--[[User:Ashbear160|Ashbear160]] ([[User talk:Ashbear160|talk]]) 00:48, May 7, 2010 (UTC))
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|-
  
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!rowspan="2"|Rating
  
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!rowspan="2"|Effect
  
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!colspan="3"|Requires
  
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|-
  
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! Level 60
  
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! Level 70
  
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! Level 80
  
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|-
  
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| [[Defense|Defense Skill]] || 1 defense skill || 1.5 || 2.37 || 4.92
  
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|-
  
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| [[Defense|Defense Skill]] || 1% combined miss/dodge/parry/block || 9.375 || 14.8125 || 30.75
  
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|-
  
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| [[Defense|Defense Skill]] || 1% combined miss/dodge/parry || 12.5 || 19.75 || 41
  
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|-
  
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| [[Dodge]] || 1% dodge || 12 || 18.92 || 39.35
  
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|-
  
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| [[Parry]]* || 1% parry || 15 || 23.65 || 49.18
  
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|-
  
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| [[Block]] || 1% block chance || 5 || 7.88 || 16.39
  
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|}
  
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* Parry was changed in the 2.1 patch to require 25% less rating to equal 1% Parry. The old value at 70 was 31.54 rating for 1%.
  
   
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:Don't request any icons until it's at least in beta. {{User:Coobra/Sig4}} 00:52, May 7, 2010 (UTC)
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==== From [[Patch 3.2]] onward ====
  
   
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::Of course :P--[[User:Ashbear160|Ashbear160]] ([[User talk:Ashbear160|talk]]) 00:53, May 7, 2010 (UTC)
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{| class="darktable"
  
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|-
  
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!rowspan="2"|Rating
  
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!rowspan="2"|Effect
  
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!colspan="3"|Requires
  
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|-
  
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! Level 60
  
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! Level 70
  
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! Level 80
  
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|-
  
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| [[Defense|Defense Skill]] || 1 defense skill || 1.5 || 2.37 || 4.92
  
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|-
  
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| [[Defense|Defense Skill]] || 1% combined miss/dodge/parry/block || 9.375 || 14.8125 || 30.75
  
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|-
  
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| [[Defense|Defense Skill]] || 1% combined miss/dodge/parry || 12.5 || 19.75 || 41
  
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|-
  
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| [[Dodge]] || 1% dodge || 13.8 || 21.76 || 45.25
  
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|-
  
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| [[Parry]] || 1% parry || 13.8 || 21.76 || 45.25
  
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|-
  
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| [[Block]] || 1% block chance || 5 || 7.88 || 16.39
  
−
|}
  
   
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:::I made a column just for cataclysm beta because these things might change a lot and some are upgrades to other icons--[[User:Ashbear160|Ashbear160]] ([[User talk:Ashbear160|talk]]) 01:04, May 7, 2010 (UTC)
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All of these Ratings have the same "point cost" when determining the level of an item. (See the article on [[Item values]] for an in-depth discussion.) For comparison, 1 point of Block Value, which decreases the damage taken when a block occurs by 1, costs 0.65 as much as 1 point of any of these Ratings.
  
   
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:hmm...... {{User:Coobra/Sig4}} 01:05, May 7, 2010 (UTC)
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=== Resilience ===
  
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{{Seealso|Resilience}}
  
   
  +
::We already have the models of all of those(at least mmo champion shows them) adding a few more for the sake of completness--[[User:Ashbear160|Ashbear160]] ([[User talk:Ashbear160|talk]]) 01:19, May 7, 2010 (UTC)
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[[Resilience]] reduces the effects of all types of [[critical hit]]s (both physical and [[spell crit]]s from players or mobs). Resilience has three components; it reduces the chance you will be critically hit by ''x''%, and it reduces the damage dealt to you by [[crits]] that land by 2''x''% and finally reduces all pet- and player-caused damage by an additional ''x''%. ''x'' is the percentage resilience granted by a given resilience rating. In 2.4 an additional effect was added to resilience. It reduces the amount of mana drained or burned by mana draining effects by 2''x''%.
  
   
  +
:::MMO champion show things you are not supposed to know exist, as hard as it can be, you must forget this website when editing wowwiki :)
−
[[PvE]] tanks usually have high enough +defense values so that mobs won't crit them at all, thus in PvE this is not an important statistic for warriors, but for druids this is another story, see note below.
  
  +
:::{{User:A'noob/sig}} 07:08, May 7, 2010 (UTC)
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{{Resilience}}
  
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Note:
  
−
For feral tanking druids, resilience can be more useful than defense to reach crit immunity, 2.6% crit to overcome at lvl 70 with [[Survival of the Fittest]]. This is no longer true as of patch 3.0, where druids can become crit immune though SotF alone, without defense or resillience. The formulas are still valid if you don't have 3/3 of this talent.
  
   
  +
==Female dragonspawn==
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60 defense rating = (-1%crit,+1%miss,+1%dodge,+1%parry,+1%block)<br />
  
  +
Why was this removed?
−
39.4 resilience rating = (-1%crit,-2%crit damage)<br />
  
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14.7 agi = (+1%dodge,+0.58%crit,+29.4 armor)<br />
  
   
  +
If I'm not blind, dragonspawn casters have '''breasts'''. If that doesn't make you female enough, I don't know what does.--[[User:Lon-ami|Lon-ami]] ([[User talk:Lon-ami|talk]]) 11:21, June 15, 2010 (UTC)
−
The conclusion is that if your goal is to become a crit-immune druid, you can swap 60 defense rating for 39.4 resilience rating + 29.4 agi. This is because (1%miss and 1%dodge) = 2%dodge, see also [[Attack Table]] for this. So this tradeoff gives you the same crit immunity and gives even slightly better damage mitigation because of the use of [[Agility]]. This trade-off is also good for the extra crit and armor, which are both useful for feral tanks. Looking at normal stats of defense rating and resilience on armor and weapons, it is easier to get crit immunity through resilience than through defense. This is not true for [[Warrior]]s and [[Paladin]]s as they can [[Block]] and [[Parry]] and therefore get much more benefit from defense rating than feral druids.
  
   
  +
:There was a reason written, anyway ask coobra he's the one taking care of this area--[[User:Ashbear160|Ashbear160]] ([[User talk:Ashbear160|talk]]) 11:58, June 15, 2010 (UTC)
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== Leveling ==
  
−
Each time you go up a level, the amount of rating needed to get the same benefit will increase. An example of the scaling involved would be the current implementation of [[Agility]] which has always worked this way in the live game, requiring more agility for the same critical strike chance as you go up in level.
  
   
  +
::Aye, I have noticed the breasts... but I personally don't see the use in clarifying the different genders, when Blizzard themselves doesn't even state genders of the dragonspawn. And it's just a model, just seems weird that all casters are female and all brutes and higher ranks are males. Not to mention the racial icons won't show the breasts and will appear almost exactly the same as the current "male" one. But I'll make an example icon, upload, and then compare... soonish. {{User:Coobra/Sig4}} 18:12, June 15, 2010 (UTC)
−
== Diminishing returns ==
  
−
As of [[Patch 3.0.1]], combat ratings that affect avoidance stats now have diminishing returns. See [[Formula:Diminishing returns]] for the exact details.
  
   
  +
:::Well, they have a smaller face, and they have hoods, too. I think having them is nice, and the icons are going to be used sure. We did the same with the quilboars some time ago, and the result was nice.--[[User:Lon-ami|Lon-ami]] ([[User talk:Lon-ami|talk]]) 18:23, June 15, 2010 (UTC)
−
== Combat Ratings formula ==
  
  +
::::Hmm, well I did make them a while ago... been hesitant on uploading cause I really don't want to see them thrown into things like {{Race|Black dragonflight}}... I personally find 5 icons already a bit much. {{User:Coobra/Sig4}} 03:09, 17 February 2011 (UTC)
−
:''See also: [[Melee mitigation]]''
  
−
The following formulas give the amount of rating required to achieve a 1% bonus. They can be derived from two sources, the values stored in the client and extensive testing done by the author of the [http://www.wowinterface.com/downloads/info5819-Rating_Buster.html Rating Buster] addon, and are completely accurate (each method gives the same values within the margin of error for 32-bit floating point precision, or 10^-7).
  
   
  +
==Death knights of each race==
−
Values are calculated with below formulas: [[Image:Ratings graph.png|thumb|500px|Ratings Conversion Graph]]
  
  +
I think we need icons for each race. Right now, we only have for humans and orcs (and they should be updated).
−
{|class="darktable" style="background-color:#FFFFFF"
  
−
|-
  
−
!colspan="2"|Resilience,Hit,Crititical Strike,<br />Haste,Expertise,Armor Penetration
  
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!colspan="2"|Dodge ([[Patch 2.1]]),<br />Defense,Parry,Block ([[Patch 2.4.2]])
  
−
|-
  
−
!LEVEL
  
−
!FORMULA
  
−
!LEVEL
  
−
!FORMULA
  
−
|-
  
−
|style="border:2px solid #333333;text-align:center;color:#000000"| 1-10 ||style="border:2px solid #333333;text-align:center;color:#000000"| <math>\frac{base}{26}</math> ||style="border:2px solid #333333;text-align:center;color:#000000"| 1-34 ||style="border:2px solid #333333;text-align:center"| <math>\frac{base}{2}</math>
  
−
|-
  
−
|style="border:2px solid #333333;text-align:center;color:#000000"| 10-60 ||style="border:2px solid #333333;text-align:center;color:#000000"| <math>base\frac{level-8}{52}</math> ||style="border:2px solid #333333;text-align:center;color:#000000"| 34-60 ||style="border:2px solid #333333;text-align:center"| <math>base\frac{level-8}{52}</math>
  
−
|-
  
−
|style="border:2px solid #333333;text-align:center;color:#000000"| 60-70 ||style="border:2px solid #333333;text-align:center;color:#000000"| <math>base\frac{82}{262-3level}</math> ||style="border:2px solid #333333;text-align:center;color:#000000"| 60-70 ||style="border:2px solid #333333;text-align:center"| <math>base\frac{82}{262-3level}</math>
  
−
|-
  
−
|style="border:2px solid #333333;text-align:center;color:#000000"| 70-80 ||style="border:2px solid #333333;text-align:center;color:#000000"| <math>base\frac{82}{52}\left(\frac{131}{63}\right)^\frac{level-70}{10}</math> ||style="border:2px solid #333333;text-align:center;color:#000000"| 70-80 ||style="border:2px solid #333333;text-align:center"| <math>base\frac{82}{52}\left(\frac{131}{63}\right)^\frac{level-70}{10}</math>
  
−
|}
  
   
  +
For the tauren one, we could recycle Trag Highmountain.
−
The 70-to-80 formula may change in future patches, but is current as of [[Patch 3.0.3]].9183 (verified Dec 2, 2008)<ref>{{ref web|url=http://elitistjerks.com/f31/t29453-combat_ratings_level_80_a/ |title=Combat Ratings at level 80 |accessdate=2008-12-04 |last=Whitetooth |date=2008-12-02 |work=Elitist Jerks }}</ref>.
  
   
  +
I would create them myself, but my WoWModelViewer doesn't work properly with textures.--[[User:Lon-ami|Lon-ami]] ([[User talk:Lon-ami|talk]]) 11:27, June 15, 2010 (UTC)
−
{|class="darktable"
  
  +
−
|-
  
  +
:I think it was because it was too much work, again ask coobra--[[User:Ashbear160|Ashbear160]] ([[User talk:Ashbear160|talk]]) 11:59, June 15, 2010 (UTC)
−
!Rating
  
  +
−
!Combat variable
  
  +
::Personally after making the orc and then human versions, I wasn't happy with them, so I stopped. Now if someone else wants to pick up the reins on this, that's fine. But don't just upload anything, it should at least be presentable, clean, and easy to identify. {{User:Coobra/Sig4}} 18:07, June 15, 2010 (UTC)
−
!Base<br />(value at lvl 60)
  
  +
−
|-
  
  +
:::I think we should avoid picture-icons, and use model shots. I think you'd have gotten a better result if you had taken screenshots instead of recoloring the existing icons :S.--[[User:Lon-ami|Lon-ami]] ([[User talk:Lon-ami|talk]]) 18:29, June 15, 2010 (UTC)
−
| [[Armor Penetration]] || - % of target's armor ||align="center"| 3.756097412
  
  +
−
|-class="alt"
  
  +
:Ok, I made improvements to the human and orc versions, tell me what you think. {{User:Coobra/Sig4}} 06:05, June 17, 2010 (UTC)
−
| [[Block]] || + % block chance ||align="center"| 5
  
  +
−
|-
  
  +
::I have to say, at first sight, I believe the orc were ghouls!
−
|rowspan="3"| [[Critical Strike]] || + % melee crit chance ||align="center" rowspan="3"| 14
  
  +
::{{User:A'noob/sig}} 07:01, June 17, 2010 (UTC)
−
|-class="alt"
  
  +
−
| + % ranged crit chance
  
  +
:::Oh-my-god. They're simply AWESOME. You made them yourself, or you took screenshots? I love them, man, seriously. Great work, and looking forward the other races if you decide to make more.--[[User:Lon-ami|Lon-ami]] ([[User talk:Lon-ami|talk]]) 10:15, June 17, 2010 (UTC)
−
|-
  
  +
−
| + % spell crit chance
  
  +
:Yes these are a vast improved over the old ones, i would love to see the other 16 icons, but that would be to much of a hassle--[[User:Ashbear160|Ashbear160]] ([[User talk:Ashbear160|talk]]) 16:02, June 17, 2010 (UTC)
−
|-class="alt"
  
  +
−
| [[Defense]] || + defense skill ||align="center"| 1.5
  
  +
::Will it be useful anyway to have one of each?
−
|-
  
  +
::{{User:A'noob/sig}} 16:07, June 17, 2010 (UTC)
−
| [[Dodge]] || + % dodge chance ||align="center"| 12
  
  +
−
|-class="alt"
  
  +
:::Of course yes, we have NPCs and important characters in-game that are death knights from all the races. Using normal icons for them is, well, wrong. They're a different "race", anyway.--[[User:Lon-ami|Lon-ami]] ([[User talk:Lon-ami|talk]]) 16:24, June 17, 2010 (UTC)
−
| [[Expertise]] || + melee weapon skill ||align="center"| 2.5
  
  +
−
|-
  
  +
:Well, I'm happy you all liked them. =) I don't know about all races (I might do them all in the end), but I did notice on the list of DKs, that at least gnome, tauren, troll, and draenei would be nice to have. {{User:Coobra/Sig4}} 20:16, June 17, 2010 (UTC)
−
|rowspan="3"| [[Haste]] || - melee weapon speed<sup>(1)(2)</sup> ||align="center" rowspan="3"| 10<sup>(3)</sup>
  
  +
−
|-class="alt"
  
  +
::Though we could just use {{RaceIcon|UndeadTroll|Male}}{{RaceIcon|UndeadTroll|Female}} for the trolls... great power out, damn storm... {{User:Coobra/Sig4}} 21:26, June 17, 2010 (UTC)
−
| - ranged weapon speed<sup>(1)</sup>
  
  +
−
|-
  
  +
:::I have no problem but i want to avoid repetition if those were used for regular undead trolls--[[User:Ashbear160|Ashbear160]] ([[User talk:Ashbear160|talk]]) 21:37, June 17, 2010 (UTC)
−
| - cast time
  
  +
−
|-class="alt"
  
  +
===Tauren death knight icons===
−
|rowspan="3"| [[Hit]] || - % melee miss chance ||align="center" rowspan="2"| 10
  
  +
So, for those who didn't notice, Coobra updated these icons: {{RaceIcon|TaurenDeathKnight|Male}} and {{RaceIcon|TaurenDeathKnight|Female}}.
−
|-
  
  +
−
| - % ranged miss chance
  
  +
I think they are great, but I think they need a bit more "zoom". I think they would work better if the "photo" was taken from further. See {{RaceIconExt|Trag}}.
−
|-class="alt"
  
  +
−
| - % spell miss chance ||align="center"| 8
  
  +
Just my opinion ;).--[[User:Lon-ami|Lon-ami]] ([[User talk:Lon-ami|talk]]) 08:02, June 18, 2010 (UTC)
−
|-
  
  +
:Perhaps.. Beast-like humanoids can be a tad annoying to make icons for. Shoulders and such always tend to get in the way. I zoomed out a little... can't say I'm completely happy with the results.. I might start over on the tauren. {{User:Coobra/Sig4}} 20:54, June 18, 2010 (UTC)
−
| [[Parry]] || + % parry chance ||align="center"| 15
  
  +
−
|-class="alt"
  
  +
===Blood elf DKs===
−
|rowspan="8"| [[Resilience]] || - % chance to recieve melee crit ||align="center" rowspan="3"| 25
  
  +
I was thinking of moving {{RaceIcon|UndeadElf|Female}}{{t|RaceIcon|UndeadElf|Female}} to {{t|RaceIcon|DarkRanger}} since it seems the only models to use that skin are dark rangers, then make a similar one for DKs... however, then I remembered [[Bloodrose Datura]]. She used the red eye version... So, question. Do you think we should just use this icon for the DKs or go ahead with what I was thinking? {{User:Coobra/Sig4}} 22:31, June 18, 2010 (UTC)
−
|-
  
  +
−
| - % chance to recieve ranged crit
  
  +
:Hmm, getting reports her eyes are no longer red, but blue like the rest of the DKs... Can anyone confirm this? {{User:Coobra/Sig4}} 22:34, June 18, 2010 (UTC)
−
|-class="alt"
  
  +
−
| - % chance to recieve spell crit
  
  +
::Eyes are blue now according to wowhead, in my opinion you should make a new one for blood elf and leave undead elf as it is--[[User:Ashbear160|Ashbear160]] ([[User talk:Ashbear160|talk]]) 22:58, June 18, 2010 (UTC)
−
|-
  
  +
−
| - % melee crit dmg taken ||align="center" rowspan="3"| 11.36363636
  
  +
:::Undead elf is just like human cultist, leave it as it is, and make new ones for death knights. After all, those icons are already used for darkfallen and dark rangers.--[[User:Lon-ami|Lon-ami]] ([[User talk:Lon-ami|talk]]) 10:40, June 19, 2010 (UTC)
−
|-class="alt"
  
  +
−
| - % ranged crit dmg taken
  
  +
===Forsaken Deathknights===
−
|-
  
  +
Coobra i don't want to be mean but don't the forsaken deathknights have a paler skin and blue eyes than normal forsaken, like for example in this skin,[http://us.battle.net/wow/en/character/Maiev/Ab/] i'm okay with the troll death knights since it has blue eyes, but i'd prefer if you or anyone that wanted do it change the forsaken death knight, so i'm going to put it back on the list.--[[User:Ashbear160|Ashbear160]] ([[User talk:Ashbear160|talk]]) 21:42, August 8, 2010 (UTC)
−
| - % spell crit dmg taken
  
  +
:If someone wants to, that's fine, but I'm not going to make a new icon for just eye color difference. To me it's pointless. {{User:Coobra/Sig4}} 22:54, August 8, 2010 (UTC)
−
|-class="alt"
  
  +
::Ok if i was able i would do it but alas i'm not--[[User:Ashbear160|Ashbear160]] ([[User talk:Ashbear160|talk]]) 13:13, August 9, 2010 (UTC)
−
| - % DoT dmg taken ||align="center"| 25
  
  +
−
|-
  
  +
:::Finally, thank you varghedin for completing the deathknight icons--[[User:Ashbear160|Ashbear160]] ([[User talk:Ashbear160|talk]]) 13:15, 15 February 2011 (UTC)
−
| - % mana drained ||align="center"| 11.36363636
  
  +
−
|}
  
  +
==Cataclysm List==
−
1) "-" is here because the variable that Blizzard calls speed is actually the period between two swings/shoots. Actual speed is increased.
  
  +
A list of new models from cataclysm:
  +
Transfred to the beginning of the page
  +
  +
Some of these might be datamined(if admins have problems tell me and i remove them each one that is datamined), also mind that this is not request list, but a list to show what new models are there, so the icon makers (sadly i'm not one of them) to know what new races are out there--[[User:Ashbear160|Ashbear160]] ([[User talk:Ashbear160|talk]]) 00:43, July 1, 2010 (UTC)
  +
  +
:Tol'vir added, they're still not in-game, but they'll be soon :).--[[User:Lon-ami|Lon-ami]] ([[User talk:Lon-ami|talk]]) 17:57, July 1, 2010 (UTC)
  +
::List updated--[[User:Ashbear160|Ashbear160]] ([[User talk:Ashbear160|talk]]) 15:01, July 21, 2010 (UTC)
  +
:::List reupdated--[[User:Ashbear160|Ashbear160]] ([[User talk:Ashbear160|talk]]) 14:34, August 1, 2010 (UTC)
  +
:::Added icons for existing ones, and those that are marked with {{RaceIconExt|}} is used as a subsitute of the image to make it easier for when someone wants to add the image--[[User:Ashbear160|Ashbear160]] ([[User talk:Ashbear160|talk]]) 22:27, August 2, 2010 (UTC)
  +
::::I've made a lot of icons, but I will not upload them till they've been seen in-game. Seems many of these are datamined, but I'm going to let it slide for now. {{User:Coobra/Sig4}} 03:29, August 3, 2010 (UTC)
  +
::::Well i said there would be datamined in here because i'm not in Beta, I've known for a fact that some of these are already in beta like bound elementals in ambermill and such, anyway i have two questions:
  +
:::-For the deep sea turtle did you use the Tortolla model? because that would be a slight problem.EDIT: you didn't use it seems the colouring is just very similar, my bad...
  +
:::-When i added waterlord to the list i was requesting a new icon based on the new ingame model, it seems that this is the old photoshopped picture so i'm going to remove it because this is a list for cataclysm models, if you don't mind, the new model is also not datamined.
  +
::::Thanks--[[User:Ashbear160|Ashbear160]] ([[User talk:Ashbear160|talk]]) 12:31, August 3, 2010 (UTC)
  +
::Added angel and twilight ascendant earth--[[User:Ashbear160|Ashbear160]] ([[User talk:Ashbear160|talk]]) 20:48, August 14, 2010 (UTC)
  +
:Coobra can you tell me which models you have done, that you think are datamined, so i can scratch them from the list so nobody else does repeats?--[[User:Ashbear160|Ashbear160]] ([[User talk:Ashbear160|talk]]) 10:59, August 15, 2010 (UTC)
  +
::At this point, I'm not completely clear what has been officially seen or not, but it doesn't matter... don't think anyone else is making icons. {{User:Coobra/Sig4}} 03:33, August 19, 2010 (UTC)
  +
:::I know of some that have been seen that are not on the list trough--[[User:Ashbear160|Ashbear160]] ([[User talk:Ashbear160|talk]]) 09:30, August 19, 2010 (UTC)
  +
::::Go ahead and add them. {{User:Coobra/Sig4}} 22:34, August 19, 2010 (UTC)
  +
:::::I trid to make the icons but they were horrible :S--[[User:Ashbear160|Ashbear160]] ([[User talk:Ashbear160|talk]]) 23:22, August 19, 2010 (UTC)
  +
:Added types of elemental drake--[[User:Ashbear160|Ashbear160]] ([[User talk:Ashbear160|talk]]) 20:29, August 23, 2010 (UTC)
  +
  +
What is meant by Big Bomb? The bomb inside alliance gunships? {{User:Coobra/Sig4}} 23:15, September 4, 2010 (UTC)
  +
:The Bomb that is dropped in stonetalon mountains on the druid city, also the reason i added to teh cataclysm list is because we have the fire lord, air lord, and earth lord that are used only once for a character, so do we add water lord to this list or we remove all lords from this list and put in the other?--[[User:Ashbear160|Ashbear160]] ([[User talk:Ashbear160|talk]]) 23:49, September 4, 2010 (UTC)
  +
::Added two deephome drakes and the scorpion guild mount--[[User:Ashbear160|Ashbear160]] ([[User talk:Ashbear160|talk]]) 19:59, September 23, 2010 (UTC)
  +
:::Added Mercury Unbound elemental(at least i think it's unbound it's grouped with unbound elementals)
  +
:::Added 4 from the newest beta patch--[[User:Ashbear160|Ashbear160]] ([[User talk:Ashbear160|talk]]) 22:37, October 2, 2010 (UTC)
  +
  +
And so you're going to keep adding "races" that aren't actually races? --{{User:Gourra/Sig2}} 22:46, October 2, 2010 (UTC)
  +
  +
The list is now easier to see which aren't complete
  +
Also added the dragonman colours that were on the youtube video showing it--[[User:Ashbear160|Ashbear160]] ([[User talk:Ashbear160|talk]]) 14:40, October 8, 2010 (UTC)
  +
  +
:All the mercury ooze creatures are technically elementals. Only reason I gave them their own icon. {{User:Coobra/Sig4}} 23:10, October 9, 2010 (UTC)
  +
::... Well we don't know that, Oozes are weird and have strange qualities, if consumption of them grants elemental ascension it's probably due to their relatedness with old gods among other strange things, i prefer if we keep thing together oozes with oozes at least until we have more information--[[User:Ashbear160|Ashbear160]] ([[User talk:Ashbear160|talk]]) 23:27, October 9, 2010 (UTC)
  +
  +
:::No I mean, every creature using the mercury ooze model is classified as an elemental, whereas mostly all other oozes are unclassified. {{User:Coobra/Sig4}} 23:30, October 9, 2010 (UTC)
  +
::::I didn't mean the ingame classification i meant the whole mercury vibe blizzard is giving, as mercury is not a traditional classical element but more of a atomic element so he might turn to be like Murmur or some other weird explination--[[User:Ashbear160|Ashbear160]] ([[User talk:Ashbear160|talk]]) 23:37, October 9, 2010 (UTC)
  +
  +
:::::True... doubt we'll get an answer though... seems we don't get much background/lore on new creatures anymore... {{User:Coobra/Sig4}} 23:46, October 9, 2010 (UTC)
  +
  +
::::::If we don't i'll ask when the dev questions come after the cataclysm release(i meant i will ask someone on scrolls of lore to post it on wow story forums)--[[User:Ashbear160|Ashbear160]] ([[User talk:Ashbear160|talk]]) 23:49, October 9, 2010 (UTC)
  +
  +
== Non-races ==
  +
  +
Removed vehicles and other things that, in fact, aren't races. --{{User:Gourra/Sig2}} 22:45, October 2, 2010 (UTC)
  +
:i'm going to undo it because this is a project page(this is only here to help edit and not exactly to direct people) and it's designed to put icons based on creature models, wherever they are not races or not that's a problem with the title and not with the content--[[User:Ashbear160|Ashbear160]] ([[User talk:Ashbear160|talk]]) 23:44, October 2, 2010 (UTC)
  +
:In fact the article has this written "The term "race" is used in a very broad sense." this page is a guide to the small icons not a list for someone to check for races--[[User:Ashbear160|Ashbear160]] ([[User talk:Ashbear160|talk]]) 23:52, October 2, 2010 (UTC)
  +
  +
::They still aren't races. If it's going to be about ''creature'' icons, then it should renamed. --{{User:Gourra/Sig2}} 23:49, October 2, 2010 (UTC)
  +
:::Talk to coobra he's the one that i ask when i have doubts about this page and he does most of the icons, so yeah check with him but for now i suggest to let it be so it does not create needless confusion--[[User:Ashbear160|Ashbear160]] ([[User talk:Ashbear160|talk]]) 23:52, October 2, 2010 (UTC)
  +
::::But if you're in a hurry i assume Creature would be more correct than Race, and i would prefer to creature so it's less confusing, just don't remove the icons, please--[[User:Ashbear160|Ashbear160]] ([[User talk:Ashbear160|talk]]) 00:01, October 3, 2010 (UTC)
  +
  +
==About the moving (from race to creature)==
  +
I think "List of race icons" was better, just because:
  +
*Race, no matter being incorrect, is more used than creature to define diferent species
  +
*The two template for the icons are called RaceIcon and Race
  +
I think it was better like before. If I've missed any discussion around this, please link it to me, since I can't find it anywhere :S.--[[User:Lon-ami|Lon-ami]] ([[User talk:Lon-ami|talk]]) 09:27, October 3, 2010 (UTC)
  +
:It was because mechanical things wouldn't fit, and creatures fit everything, also those 2 don't matter it's not like you'll see them unless you edit...--[[User:Ashbear160|Ashbear160]] ([[User talk:Ashbear160|talk]]) 10:55, October 3, 2010 (UTC)
  +
  +
::It still doesn't make sense. Race was fine, imo.--[[User:Lon-ami|Lon-ami]] ([[User talk:Lon-ami|talk]]) 14:50, October 8, 2010 (UTC)
  +
:::Gourra didn't agree and after pointed out i too don't agree--[[User:Ashbear160|Ashbear160]] ([[User talk:Ashbear160|talk]]) 20:36, October 8, 2010 (UTC)
  +
  +
::::I still think it doesn't make sense... this is a list of "RaceIcon", and the same way you don't call mechanical stuff races, you don't call them creatures, either.--[[User:Lon-ami|Lon-ami]] ([[User talk:Lon-ami|talk]]) 09:04, October 18, 2010 (UTC)
  +
  +
:Because the term race is usually used to reference sapient beings while the term creature sentient beings--[[User:Ashbear160|Ashbear160]] ([[User talk:Ashbear160|talk]]) 10:53, October 18, 2010 (UTC)
  +
  +
::I still think "List of race icons" was a better name, after all, we have a lot of stuff that isn't creatures in here, like boats and mechanical constructs. This is a list of RaceIcon templates, not of CreatureIcon. Also, it's shorter, easier and more user-friendly to use race instead of creature.
  +
::I would like to have a vote on this if it doesn't get solved.--[[User:Lon-ami|Lon-ami]] ([[User talk:Lon-ami|talk]]) 17:22, 20 January 2011 (UTC)
  +
:::To me it doesn't matter what it's named, as long as the article itself and it's purpose isn't damage by it.--[[User:Ashbear160|Ashbear160]] ([[User talk:Ashbear160|talk]]) 17:34, 20 January 2011 (UTC)
  +
  +
::::Bumping this to see if more people comments, if not, guess I'll be able to move it back?--[[User:Lon-ami|Lon-ami]] ([[User talk:Lon-ami|talk]]) 13:46, 23 January 2011 (UTC)
  +
  +
::::I think that neither "race" nor "creature" is an ideal term for the icons, but seeing as they already are named race icons, I'd rather the page name reflect that rather than trying to artificially give it a different name that is about equally ill-fitting. --[[User:Varghedin|Varghedin]] ([[User talk:Varghedin|talk]]) 23:08, 23 January 2011 (UTC)
  +
  +
:::::Good to see you got my point, Varghedin :).--[[User:Lon-ami|Lon-ami]] ([[User talk:Lon-ami|talk]]) 09:42, 24 January 2011 (UTC)
  +
  +
==Tiny change in the elemental category==
  +
I'm going to change a small part of the four main elemental template, instead of using it by alphabet, it would be by rank however i'll explain better later--[[User:Ashbear160|Ashbear160]] ([[User talk:Ashbear160|talk]]) 12:15, October 10, 2010 (UTC)
  +
:Well the idea is this instead of doing by alphabet, we put first by ranks, like the word Fire in fire elemental is the first letter of the alphabet in that category i'll make a small example on how it would go:
  +
*Element
  +
**Elemental
  +
**Unbound
  +
**Bound
  +
**Revenant
  +
**Lord
  +
**Anything extra is below here by alphabet
  +
what do you think?
  +
Here is what would constitute the changes below:
  +
  +
*Air
  +
**{{rl|RaceIconExt|Air}} [[Air elemental]]
  +
***{{rl|RaceIconExt|BoundAir}} [[Bound air elemental]] {{cata-inline}}
  +
***{{rl|RaceIconExt|UnboundAir}} [[Unbound air elemental]] {{cata-inline}}
  +
**{{rl|RaceIconExt|AirLord}} [[Thunderaan|Air lord]]
  +
**{{rl|RaceIconExt|RevenantAir}} [[Lightning revenant]] {{wotlk-inline}}
  +
**{{rl|RaceIconExt|Djinni}} [[Djinni]] {{cata-inline}}
  +
**{{rl|RaceIconExt|Mana}} [[Mana surge]]
  +
***{{rl|RaceIconExt|ArcaneWraith}} [[Arcane wraith]] {{bc-inline}}
  +
  +
*Earth
  +
**{{rl|RaceIconExt|Earth}} [[Earth elemental]]
  +
***{{rl|RaceIconExt|BoundEarth}} [[Bound earth elemental]] {{cata-inline}}
  +
***{{rl|RaceIconExt|UnboundEarth}} [[Unbound earth elemental]] {{cata-inline}}
  +
**{{rl|RaceIconExt|EarthLord}} [[Therazane|Earth lord]]
  +
**{{rl|RaceIconExt|RevenantEarth}} [[Earth revenant]] {{wotlk-inline}}
  +
**{{rl|RaceIconExt|RevenantDeath}} [[Death revenant]] {{wotlk-inline}}
  +
**{{rl|RaceIconExt|Geode}} [[Geode]] {{Cata-inline}}
  +
**{{rl|RaceIconExt|Gyreworm}} [[Gyreworm]] {{Cata-inline}}
  +
**{{rl|RaceIconExt|ShaleSpider}} [[Shale spider]] {{Cata-inline}}
  +
  +
*Fire
  +
**{{rl|RaceIconExt|Fire}} [[Fire elemental]]
  +
***{{rl|RaceIconExt|BoundFire}} [[Bound fire elemental]] {{cata-inline}}
  +
***{{rl|RaceIconExt|UnboundFire}} [[Unbound fire elemental]] {{cata-inline}}
  +
**{{rl|RaceIconExt|FireLord}} [[Ragnaros|Fire lord]]
  +
**{{rl|RaceIconExt|RevenantFire}} [[Fire revenant]] {{wotlk-inline}}
  +
**{{rl|RaceIconExt|Entropy}} [[Entropic beast]]
  +
**{{rl|RaceIconExt|FelFireLord}} [[Cyrukh the Firelord|Fel Firelord]] {{bc-inline}}
  +
**{{rl|RaceIconExt|Flamewaker}} [[Flamewaker]]
  +
**{{rl|RaceIconExt|Phoenix}} [[Phoenix]] {{bc-inline}}
  +
***{{rl|RaceIconExt|DarkPhoenix}} Dark Phoenix {{Cata-inline}}
  +
  +
*Water
  +
**{{rl|RaceIconExt|Water}} [[Water elemental]]
  +
***{{rl|RaceIconExt|BoundWater}} [[Bound water elemental]] {{cata-inline}}
  +
***{{rl|RaceIconExt|UnboundWater}} [[Unbound water elemental]] {{cata-inline}}
  +
**{{rl|RaceIconExt|RevenantWater}} [[Water revenant]] {{wotlk-inline}}
  +
  +
--[[User:Ashbear160|Ashbear160]] ([[User talk:Ashbear160|talk]]) 13:45, October 10, 2010 (UTC)
  +
  +
:If you want to do it by rank, you may want to check out the elemental hierarchy. Since we don't seem to have the table anywhere... I went and made one it's not a clean version, but it gets the job done for now... its at [[User:Coobra/sandbox7]]. {{User:Coobra/Sig4}} 20:53, October 10, 2010 (UTC)
  +
::It seems size may count for their rank among them... so if they were to be organized by rank, adding the new elementals in between the rest could essentially be done. And the lords should bottom the list. {{User:Coobra/Sig4}} 21:02, October 10, 2010 (UTC)
  +
:::It's not literally by rank just those that the only difference is the element they represent, but have examples in all four classical elements, Like having the word fire in the fire elemental section would be considered the first letter of the alphabet--[[User:Ashbear160|Ashbear160]] ([[User talk:Ashbear160|talk]]) 21:21, October 10, 2010 (UTC)
  +
::::So can i change it to the example above?changed it slightly, now it's by alphabetic orderbut considers things that have examples in the other element has first letter of the alphabet --[[User:Ashbear160|Ashbear160]] ([[User talk:Ashbear160|talk]]) 10:41, October 12, 2010 (UTC)
  +
  +
:::::Sure. {{User:Coobra/Sig4}} 20:47, October 12, 2010 (UTC)
  +
:Thanks--[[User:Ashbear160|Ashbear160]] ([[User talk:Ashbear160|talk]]) 22:17, October 12, 2010 (UTC)
  +
  +
==Regarding the Tol'vir==
  +
Regarding the Tolvir, do we really need to have icon for each color? Just asking, but we neither have icon for each color of humans hair. [[User:Neutralion|Neutralion]] ([[User talk:Neutralion|talk]]) 17:24, October 12, 2010 (UTC)
  +
:I added all skins because they represented different skins very differently, but i also added the green square before tol'vir if somebody just wants to do one icon instead of all of them i also added this to ramhaken, dragonman, skywall and deepholm drake--[[User:Ashbear160|Ashbear160]] ([[User talk:Ashbear160|talk]]) 19:15, October 12, 2010 (UTC)
  +
  +
==Changes to icons==
  +
I have noticed icons have been slightly edited. Someone has added a line of "brown2 pixles above their heads. See here:
  +
*[[:File:IconSmall HumanDeathKnight Male.gif]]
  +
I'm not sure if they look better this way... opinions?--[[User:Lon-ami|Lon-ami]] ([[User talk:Lon-ami|talk]]) 14:21, 21 November 2010 (UTC)
  +
  +
:The user went through many icons making them similar to how the main races are.... I'm waiting to see how the public views it... though if he doesn't finish them, I might just revert just to have a standard look. Cause I know many icons I made don't take in account for the loss of details due to a "button" feel to them. {{User:Coobra/Sig4}} 01:38, 22 November 2010 (UTC)
  +
  +
::I would say remove the buttons, because they are very small images and we cannot afford to loose 2 pixels for something purely cosmetical instead of more details.
  +
::{{User:A'noob/sig}} 08:04, 22 November 2010 (UTC)
  +
  +
:::It wouldn't mind however, it's much lighter than the other buttons so it kinda looks bad, if it was on a much darker colour like the original buttons i wouldn't have minded at all, just look at the playable orc button to see what i mean, compare the difference between male and female--[[User:Ashbear160|Ashbear160]] ([[User talk:Ashbear160|talk]]) 13:22, 22 November 2010 (UTC)
  +
  +
So I'm hearing a dislike to the changes being done to the icons then? If no one objects we can start reverting them back... I'll check back for objections in about a week, if any. {{User:Coobra/Sig4}} 02:35, 23 November 2010 (UTC)
  +
  +
:First, hello eveyone, the reason why I edit the icons is that I think that now looks better, also for the look-a-like with the principal icons, but if you wanna change it, do it, for me it′s fine. -- [[User:Kandooww|Kandooww]] 20:49, 23 November 2010 (UTC)
  +
  +
:I like the new look of the icons. --{{User:Gourra/Sig2}} 20:19, 23 November 2010 (UTC)
  +
  +
::I think the colour is too light compared to the rest of the button and much lighter than the original buttons, make it more like the original ones and i have no problem--[[User:Ashbear160|Ashbear160]] ([[User talk:Ashbear160|talk]]) 20:34, 23 November 2010 (UTC)
  +
  +
:::I've always been of the opinion that we should replace all the "art" icons for "model" icons, but well. I liked the original ones more :(.
  +
:::And yeah, I'm with A'noob regarding the loss of pixels.--[[User:Lon-ami|Lon-ami]] ([[User talk:Lon-ami|talk]]) 10:33, 24 November 2010 (UTC)
  +
  +
==Over the Top==
  +
As one of the pioneers among race icon makes, I really think some of these requests are out of hand. We do not need a race icon for every single skin color or eye color or class of the creature. The icons are supposed to be a representative image of a creature of that race, no matter if they're brown or green or a mage or a warrior or have spiky hair or a big nose or whatever. And some of the requests are outright silly. How can we make an icon of a race that's not represented anywhere graphically? The actually useful icon requests are being drowned in a huge pool of ones that don't make sense. --[[User:Varghedin|Varghedin]] ([[User talk:Varghedin|talk]]) 18:59, 15 December 2010 (UTC)
  +
  +
:Specific examples? as for the death knights, I do believe we need them, because they are different from the normal state of their race. As for different colors for the same race, I think it's stupid.--[[User:Lon-ami|Lon-ami]] ([[User talk:Lon-ami|talk]]) 19:28, 15 December 2010 (UTC)
  +
  +
::From the top, [[Hill giant]]s are either creatures with no art (the ED type) or just a brown mountain giant. [[Incubus]] had no art at all, and their entire existence is speculative. Forsaken death knights have blue eyes instead of yellow, big deal. Chaos orc? Where are those seen? Faceless one caster? Ok so we need a seperate icon just because they wear a robe? Cho'gall disciples are ogres. Yes they have an X on their chest, but that won't show up on the icon anyway. Ravens already have an icon. Stormcrest eagles are eagles. Yeah, they're white. But they're eagles. That's like making a different icon for brunette and blonde humans. Etc etc etc. I could remove them myself but it would probably look like an exorsim with almost half the list gone. --[[User:Varghedin|Varghedin]] ([[User talk:Varghedin|talk]]) 19:54, 15 December 2010 (UTC)
  +
  +
:::Well, Hill giants "could" be included just because have icons for all the other giants, but well, not like they are any different...
  +
:::I pretty much agree with you on everything, except on forsaken and troll death knights, because they're visually different, and not just "blue eyes", their skin is paler, too. I think they deserve an opportunity :S.--[[User:Lon-ami|Lon-ami]] ([[User talk:Lon-ami|talk]]) 21:20, 15 December 2010 (UTC)
  +
  +
::::I heavily agree with Varghedin, it's why I've been ignoring much of the list. But it seems an argument would start every time I removed a request... so I just started leaving things there to forever remain, cause I know I wasn't going to make them. I've tried to accommodate a few of the somewhat silly icon requests, but it has gotten out of hand.... why is there a request for ships, zeps, and subs? As far as I know, players don't physically control them as vehicles, and used on [[Vehicles by zone]], which is why I've been making vehicle icons, specifically for that page. {{User:Coobra/Sig4}} 23:18, 15 December 2010 (UTC)
  +
  +
:Well i can tell some whys
  +
::Forsaken Deathknights shouldn't be a exception
  +
::Chaos orcs are in the dark portal in cataclysm
  +
::Ravens, Crocolisk, air lord and water lord are supposed to be made on the updated models from cataclysm
  +
::Cho'gal disciple i put it there because it was a new model and if someone made the human cultist model here(which is pretty much the same thing)they probably wouldn't mind making one about ogres(also didn't readd)
  +
::Faceless one caster was just the name we gave it, it's not about the robes, it's the huge mask and the different number of tentacles(which is a lame excuse and didn't readd it)
  +
::Stormcrest eagle i need for the alliance page because showing a white eagle as a brown icon looks wrong to me
  +
::Hill giant is the only one without a icon so that's why i added it
  +
::and removed things that didn't exist--[[User:Ashbear160|Ashbear160]] ([[User talk:Ashbear160|talk]]) 00:44, 16 December 2010 (UTC)
  +
:::Chaos orc at: http://www.wowhead.com/npc=42301#screenshots:id=192345 --[[User:Ashbear160|Ashbear160]] ([[User talk:Ashbear160|talk]]) 02:11, 16 December 2010 (UTC)
  +
:::Raven at: http://www.wowhead.com/npc=41651#. --[[User:Ashbear160|Ashbear160]] ([[User talk:Ashbear160|talk]]) 15:28, 16 December 2010 (UTC)
  +
:::Crocolisk at: http://www.wowhead.com/npc=44260#modelviewer--[[User:Ashbear160|Ashbear160]] ([[User talk:Ashbear160|talk]]) 15:28, 16 December 2010 (UTC)
  +
  +
::::Tell me what you'll see from that croc you wouldn't see from {{RaceIconExt|Crocolisk}}. {{User:Coobra/Sig4}} 22:18, 16 December 2010 (UTC)
  +
:Yes i kinda had doubts with the croc but since i putted everything else that was updated on the list might as well put that one, besides the texture on the new skins are much, much better, just go see it on wowhead the textures(also the new crocs have spiked and shells on the head)--[[User:Ashbear160|Ashbear160]] ([[User talk:Ashbear160|talk]]) 01:34, 17 December 2010 (UTC)
  +
::Lol the new crocs don't have those things on the chin, that the old ones have, there's a difference XD--[[User:Ashbear160|Ashbear160]] ([[User talk:Ashbear160|talk]]) 01:35, 17 December 2010 (UTC)
  +
  +
:::The difference, if any, between chaos orcs and fel orcs has never been fully explained. ''Monster Guide'' even outright says that they are the same.--{{User:Sandwichman2448/Sig}} 02:01, 17 December 2010 (UTC)
  +
::::Fine, can anybody check the name of the skin of these guys http://www.wowhead.com/npc=42301/horde-portal-sentry, and either write it here or on the list?--[[User:Ashbear160|Ashbear160]] ([[User talk:Ashbear160|talk]]) 02:12, 17 December 2010 (UTC)
  +
  +
:::::It is not a new skin either.[http://www.wowhead.com/npc=19422]--{{User:Sandwichman2448/Sig}} 02:22, 17 December 2010 (UTC)
  +
:Wowhead says they aren't(even trough they are) so i can't see the name of the skin...--[[User:Ashbear160|Ashbear160]] ([[User talk:Ashbear160|talk]]) 02:27, 17 December 2010 (UTC)
  +
::Because they're not under "Same model as"? Give me a break - Mor'ghor apparently doesn't share model either with his other ID's, despite the fact that he does look the same. --{{User:Gourra/Sig2}} 10:27, 17 December 2010 (UTC)
  +
:I think it would be nice to have icons for boats/zeppelins, for the transportation and route pages.--[[User:Lon-ami|Lon-ami]] ([[User talk:Lon-ami|talk]]) 09:52, 17 December 2010 (UTC)
  +
:::I was talking because wowhead doesn't consider the same model i can't see the name of the skin... i know they are the same creature... --[[User:Ashbear160|Ashbear160]] ([[User talk:Ashbear160|talk]]) 13:53, 17 December 2010 (UTC)
  +
::::You can see the skin name using [[WoW Model Viewer]]. --{{User:Gourra/Sig2}} 14:02, 17 December 2010 (UTC)
  +
:I know but i'm not going to download it...--[[User:Ashbear160|Ashbear160]] ([[User talk:Ashbear160|talk]]) 15:27, 17 December 2010 (UTC)
  +
  +
==Updated the latest update list==
  +
:I was bored hope it helps on what icon models are missing from cata--[[User:Ashbear160|Ashbear160]] ([[User talk:Ashbear160|talk]]) 14:20, 6 January 2011 (UTC)
  +
  +
::I also organized the request list by what i think it's order of importance--[[User:Ashbear160|Ashbear160]] ([[User talk:Ashbear160|talk]]) 00:14, 5 February 2011 (UTC)
  +
  +
==Ogres and Ogre mages==
  +
I think that, after the W3 problem with the number of heads and blue skin, we can "confirm" that 2 heads equals to ogre mages ''always'', and that blue skin doesn't imply ogre magi. The deal now would be to make the default "ogre mage" icon direct to the pink version, instead of the blue one, leaving the blue versions as alternates, both of them, for its corresponding version by number of heads.
  +
  +
So, basically, we should move [[:File:IconSmall_Ogre_Male2.gif]] to [[:File:IconSmall_OgreMage.gif]], [[:File:IconSmall_OgreMage.gif]] to [[:File:IconSmall_Ogre_Mage2.gif]] and [[:File:IconSmall_Ogre_Mage2.gif]] to [[:File:IconSmall_Ogre_Male2.gif]].
  +
  +
Opinions?--[[User:Lon-ami|Lon-ami]] ([[User talk:Lon-ami|talk]]) 19:13, 22 February 2011 (UTC)
   
  +
:Or, even better:
−
2) Paladins, Shamans, Druids and Death Knights receive 30% extra value for this stat (effective base value is 13)
  
  +
:*''':File:IconSmall_Ogre_Male2.gif''' to [[:File:IconSmall_OgreMage.gif]]
  +
:*[[:File:IconSmall_OgreMage.gif]] to ''':File:IconSmall_OgreMage2.gif'''
  +
:*''':File:IconSmall_Ogre_Mage2.gif''' to [[:File:IconSmall_Ogre2_Male.gif]]
  +
:That way the image names make more sense :).--[[User:Lon-ami|Lon-ami]] ([[User talk:Lon-ami|talk]]) 19:16, 22 February 2011 (UTC)
   
  +
::I'm pretty sure I've encountered several two-headed ogres that weren't mages. That said, the whole blue skin thing seems unecessary to me. Ogres comes in red, gray and black shades too. Why don't we just label them 2-headed ogres instead of labeling them by their class? --[[User:Varghedin|Varghedin]] ([[User talk:Varghedin|talk]]) 22:20, 22 February 2011 (UTC)
−
3) Unlike the other ratings, Haste Rating → Speed/Cast time conversion isn't linear; see [[Haste]]
  
   
  +
:::I think the name of their sub-race is Ogre Mage--[[User:Ashbear160|Ashbear160]] ([[User talk:Ashbear160|talk]]) 23:20, 22 February 2011 (UTC)
−
== Ratings calculators ==
  
  +
::::Two-headed ogres and ogre mages are not always the same thing.--{{User:Sandwichman2448/Sig}} 03:23, 23 February 2011 (UTC)
−
=== Ingame ===
  
−
* '''Rating Buster''', an addon which shows and calculates Combat ratings on your items ([http://www-en.curse-gaming.com/files/details/4991/ratingbuster/ Curse] | [http://www.wowinterface.com/downloads/info5819-Rating_Buster.html WoWInt]).
  
   
  +
:::::The I suggest changing "ogre-mage" to "ogre-2-head", keeping my suggestion above. I'm with Varghedin, blue skin is unnecessary and confusing.--[[User:Lon-ami|Lon-ami]] ([[User talk:Lon-ami|talk]]) 16:59, 11 March 2011 (UTC)
   
  +
==Undead quillboar==
−
== Historical note ==
  
  +
Hmm vargedhin there was already a undead quillboar, in the undead section... i put it there as a alternate icon, hope you have no problems--[[User:Ashbear160|Ashbear160]] ([[User talk:Ashbear160|talk]]) 17:46, 23 February 2011 (UTC)
−
Prior to version 2.0.1, item bonuses didn't use the Combat Ratings System. Instead, items had equip and on-use bonuses that increased the underlying value directly. For example, instead of increasing the wearer's Crit Rating by 14 and the wearer's Dodge Rating by 12, the old pre-2.0.1 [[Stormshroud Shoulders]] added +1% to the wearer's Crit chance and +1% to the wearer's Dodge chance.
  
  +
:Whoops, I looked under humanoids. No need to have duplicates; I removed it. --[[User:Varghedin|Varghedin]] ([[User talk:Varghedin|talk]]) 21:41, 23 February 2011 (UTC)
   
  +
==Kandooww's "modification" to the icons==
−
When Blizzard made the conversion to 2.0.1, all existing items with the old +crit%, +defense, etc. values were converted to their equivalent values in the new Ratings system scaled for a level 60 character. For example, an item that previously gave +10 Defense Skill now gives +15 Defense Rating. (Conversions that would have resulted in a fractional Rating were rounded down to the nearest whole number; e.g. an item that previously gave +3 Defense Skill now gives +4 Defense Rating.)
  
  +
So, some time ago, user Kandooww modified some icons, adding some sort of line above, to give more "icon" looks. I don't remember where, but I think we reached the decision that, with the small number of bits, we couldn't afford it.
   
  +
But today, looking at some icons, I noticed it's still around. An example: [[:File:IconSmall Wildhammer Male.gif]]. Look at both versions, and you'll see what I mean. So, should we revert all those pending editions or discuss the matter again? the new icons made for Cataclysm don't have those lines, so I think it's safe to revert everything to the originals.--[[User:Lon-ami|Lon-ami]] ([[User talk:Lon-ami|talk]]) 00:32, 6 March 2011 (UTC)
−
== See also ==
  
  +
:Discussion took place just a little above at [[#Changes to icons]]. I just never went around and reverted them yet, was waiting on more comments, but then I forgot. {{User:Coobra/Sig4}} 00:53, 6 March 2011 (UTC)
−
* [[Formulas:Item Values]]
  
  +
::Well i don't like them brown is not a good colour--[[User:Ashbear160|Ashbear160]] ([[User talk:Ashbear160|talk]]) 01:27, 6 March 2011 (UTC)
−
* [[Attack table]]
  
  +
:::Personally, I don't like the line - it takes away more than 5 % of the icon's pixel space, and the aesthetic look it creates isn't even all that appealing to me. --[[User:Varghedin|Varghedin]] ([[User talk:Varghedin|talk]]) 18:11, 6 March 2011 (UTC)
   
  +
:Guess it's a yes for "revert them" :).--[[User:Lon-ami|Lon-ami]] ([[User talk:Lon-ami|talk]]) 20:38, 6 March 2011 (UTC)
−
== References ==
  
  +
::I believe I got them all, if not go ahead and do a revert. Give it a little while though... the images need time to fix themselves. =) {{User:Coobra/Sig4}} 04:07, 7 March 2011 (UTC)
−
{{blizzforumlink|topicid=35215413|subject=Combat Rating System Explanation|datetime=10/16/2006 06:06:07 PM PDT|author=Eyonix}}
  
   
  +
:::I don't find any missing one. Great job ;).--[[User:Lon-ami|Lon-ami]] ([[User talk:Lon-ami|talk]]) 17:00, 11 March 2011 (UTC)
−
{{blizzforumlink|topicid=36573662|subject=Combat Ratings: Level 70 Conversions|datetime=10/20/2006 11:29:55 AM PDT|author=Eyonix}}
  
   
  +
==Names of some creatures==
−
{{blizzforumlink|topicid=106616906|subject=Combat Ratings: Level 70 Conversions|datetime=05/30/2007 11:23:47 AM PDT|author=Eyonix}}
  
  +
:Hope i'm not a nuisance, but i put the term titanic guardian because 3 creatures with that model are called Titanic Guardian and i've never heard the name Pyramid watcher.
  +
:And the rock giant, have they ever been called that? if not i would like to suggest to change it to either mineral giant or gem giant since the name of the creatures with that model are directly referenced to that(Feldspar, Emerald and Opal).--[[User:Ashbear160|Ashbear160]] ([[User talk:Ashbear160|talk]]) 22:38, 20 March 2011 (UTC)
  +
::Where are these 3 creatures you mention called Titanic Guardians? The Pyramid Watchers are located in southern Uldum at Neferset. Also, the rock giants are called mineral giants anywhere. Feldspar, Emerald and Opal are all types of rock (which is solid aggregate mineral). Besides, "mineral giant" sounds rather silly, don't you think? --[[User:Varghedin|Varghedin]] ([[User talk:Varghedin|talk]]) 00:55, 21 March 2011 (UTC)
  +
:::Ugh Titanic Guardians are the same Creature with a different hat(Green Hat), ow i just have to find the model for the purple hat..., and well mineral giats was a old idea that's why i suggested gem giants.--[[User:Ashbear160|Ashbear160]] ([[User talk:Ashbear160|talk]]) 01:22, 21 March 2011 (UTC)
  +
::::Ok, Titanic Guardian is fine. Gem giant is better than mineral giant, but it still sounds strange to me. In WMV, they are called "Deepholm Golems". Although I think 'golem' is inappropriate, they could safely be called Deepholm Giants, for example. --[[User:Varghedin|Varghedin]] ([[User talk:Varghedin|talk]]) 08:42, 21 March 2011 (UTC)
  +
:::::Changed it to [[Emerald colossus]], since that's what they're called in {{quest|The Axe of Earthly Sundering}}. --{{User:Gourra/Sig2}} 08:43, 21 March 2011 (UTC)
  +
::::::The reason I didn't call them that was that the [[Opal Stonethrower]]s use the same model with a different color, indicating the color relates to the mineral rock they are made from (opal and emerald are quite distinct from each other, so the term "Emerald colossus" couldn't cover the "Opal colossus" type). In regards to their elemental nature, I do think it's right to be placing them there since they probably have their origin in Deepholm, which is a separate dimension from the Azerothian giants. I was unsure of where to put it but I chose giants since they have that creature type in-game.
  +
::::::How about a compromise - "Gemstone Colossus"? It removes the giant sub-type, keeps the colossus name from "Emerald Colossus", and broadens the type of mineral to include Opal and Feldspar, and it's closer to what Ashbear suggested as well --[[User:Varghedin|Varghedin]] ([[User talk:Varghedin|talk]]) 09:00, 21 March 2011 (UTC)
  +
:::::::Sounds fair to me. --{{User:Gourra/Sig2}} 09:34, 21 March 2011 (UTC)
  +
:::::::That's cool--[[User:Ashbear160|Ashbear160]] ([[User talk:Ashbear160|talk]]) 10:28, 21 March 2011 (UTC)
   
  +
==Tigon Female==
−
{{blizzforumlink|topicid=291880|sid=1|subject=Blizzard BETA Combat Rating System Notes|datetime=12/09/2006 02:46 PM GMT|author=Drysc}}
  
  +
Varghedin you seem to have forgot to add the female tigon icon, just noting that--[[User:Ashbear160|Ashbear160]] ([[User talk:Ashbear160|talk]]) 18:55, 23 March 2011 (UTC)
   
  +
==Scorpions==
−
{{blizzforumlink|topicid=106616902|page=1|sid=1#0|subject=Blizzard Combat Rating Conversion Factor at 70|datetime=05/30/2007 06:23:10 PM UTC|author=Eyonix}}
  
  +
I noticed that most scorpions use a new model based on the korkhon anhiliator, should we change the korkhon anhilihator name to something like cataclysm scorpion or alternate scorpion, and what should be the name of the icons of the updated models of raven and crocolisks?--[[User:Ashbear160|Ashbear160]] ([[User talk:Ashbear160|talk]]) 19:14, 23 March 2011 (UTC)
   
  +
==Latest Update List==
−
{{reflist}}
  
  +
I updated the list with some new models of this patch, left the unfinished so it's not just 2 models on the list--[[User:Ashbear160|Ashbear160]] ([[User talk:Ashbear160|talk]]) 18:49, 25 March 2011 (UTC)
−
[[Category:Formulas and game mechanics]]
  
  +
:Please clarify the Big Cats Cub... are you talking about the Guardian Cub? {{User:Coobra/Sig4}} 21:48, 25 March 2011 (UTC)
−
[[Category:Tanking]]
  
  +
::The 5 models after ragnaros in this [http://ptr.wowhead.com/blog=183590/patch-4-1-ptr-build-13682-3d-models-ragnaros-and-kitties#. page]

Revision as of 23:00, 25 March 2011

This is the talk page for discussing improvements to the Wowpedia:List of race icons article.

Past discussions archived to...


Requests

"I" icon Requests for new icons should be placed here.

When making a request, please bear in mind the usefulness of the icon, in other words will it be used? Generally NYI races/creatures should not be requested as making the icon does require some sort of image to work off of. Creatures of similar nature or different skin/fur colors should also not be requested, for example we don't need a icon for polar bears, black bears, and brown bears.

Addendum: Don't request icons of content that hasn't gone live yet.

Humanoid

  • Female Tigon(preferably the one with the black skin)

Undead

Beasts

Dragonkin

  • Azure dragonspawn
  • Azure dragonwhelp
  • Azure drakonid

Elementals/Contructs

Other

Giants

Mechanical/Animated objects

Removal replies

Please do not respond here, start a new section at the bottom if removal is disputed.
Removed
Clockwerk goblin, Ancient of Wind, Ancient of Wonder, Tree of Life/Ages/Eternity, Mur'ghoul and Mutant murloc
The models are on WC3 and not WOW
Removed
Boat, Deeprun Tram, Zeppelin, Horde Submarine, Alliance Submarine, Big Bomb, Orb of Translocation
Would serve no purpose.
Removed
Incubus
Have no graphics that can be used for icons.
Removed
Female Dragonspawn (dragonspawn casters are female)
No Proof, except for slender form, and the breasts.
Removed
Ability hunter pet gorilla [Mechanical Yeti], Jewelcrafting Boar, Ability hunter pet gorilla [Mechanical Greench], and Inv misc monsterhead 03 [Lifelike Mechanical Toad]. /
They have no distinct look from the actual creatures they portray.
Removed
Felboar / Mage Slayer / Inv pet babyblizzardbear [Baby Blizzard Bear] / Onyxian whelpling and Onyxian Drake.
Felboar can use IconSmall Helboar / Mage slayer can use IconSmall Darkhound / Baby Blizzard Bears can use IconSmall Bear. / Onyxian Whelpling and Drake can use IconSmall WhelpBlack IconSmall DrakeBlack


Completed requests

Latest Update List

A list of new models from latest update, which is Cataclysm 4.0 and Ptr of 4.1:

    • Unfinished
      • IconSmall Cataclysm Crocolisk
      • IconSmall Cataclysm Raven
      • IconSmall Exarch Elekk
      • IconSmall Sunwalker Kodo
      • IconSmall Faceless one mount
      • IconSmall Spectral Steed
      • IconSmall Spectral Wolf
      • IconSmall Goblin Zombie
      • IconSmall Dark Phoenix Hatchling
      • IconSmall Elementium Monstrosity
      • IconSmall Horde Caravan
      • IconSmall Big Bomb
      • IconSmall Horde Submarine
      • IconSmall Alliance Submarine
      • IconSmall Tentacle of Isorath

Cataclysm Icons

When can we start asking for cataclysm icons? when it releases accordying to assumptions we already have a ettin model(it's a two headed giant with a roof as a shoulder--Ashbear160 (talk) 00:48, May 7, 2010 (UTC))

Don't request any icons until it's at least in beta. SnakeSssssssssssssssssssssssss Coobra sig3For Pony! (Sssss/Slithered) 00:52, May 7, 2010 (UTC)
Of course :P--Ashbear160 (talk) 00:53, May 7, 2010 (UTC)
I made a column just for cataclysm beta because these things might change a lot and some are upgrades to other icons--Ashbear160 (talk) 01:04, May 7, 2010 (UTC)
hmm...... SnakeSssssssssssssssssssssssss Coobra sig3For Pony! (Sssss/Slithered) 01:05, May 7, 2010 (UTC)
We already have the models of all of those(at least mmo champion shows them) adding a few more for the sake of completness--Ashbear160 (talk) 01:19, May 7, 2010 (UTC)
MMO champion show things you are not supposed to know exist, as hard as it can be, you must forget this website when editing wowwiki :)
IconSmall Hamuul Loremaster A'noob, Arch Druid of the Noobhoof Clan (talk/contribz) 07:08, May 7, 2010 (UTC)

Female dragonspawn

Why was this removed?

If I'm not blind, dragonspawn casters have breasts. If that doesn't make you female enough, I don't know what does.--Lon-ami (talk) 11:21, June 15, 2010 (UTC)

There was a reason written, anyway ask coobra he's the one taking care of this area--Ashbear160 (talk) 11:58, June 15, 2010 (UTC)
Aye, I have noticed the breasts... but I personally don't see the use in clarifying the different genders, when Blizzard themselves doesn't even state genders of the dragonspawn. And it's just a model, just seems weird that all casters are female and all brutes and higher ranks are males. Not to mention the racial icons won't show the breasts and will appear almost exactly the same as the current "male" one. But I'll make an example icon, upload, and then compare... soonish. SnakeSssssssssssssssssssssssss Coobra sig3For Pony! (Sssss/Slithered) 18:12, June 15, 2010 (UTC)
Well, they have a smaller face, and they have hoods, too. I think having them is nice, and the icons are going to be used sure. We did the same with the quilboars some time ago, and the result was nice.--Lon-ami (talk) 18:23, June 15, 2010 (UTC)
Hmm, well I did make them a while ago... been hesitant on uploading cause I really don't want to see them thrown into things like Black dragon Black dragon... I personally find 5 icons already a bit much. SnakeSssssssssssssssssssssssss Coobra sig3For Pony! (Sssss/Slithered) 03:09, 17 February 2011 (UTC)

Death knights of each race

I think we need icons for each race. Right now, we only have for humans and orcs (and they should be updated).

For the tauren one, we could recycle Trag Highmountain.

I would create them myself, but my WoWModelViewer doesn't work properly with textures.--Lon-ami (talk) 11:27, June 15, 2010 (UTC)

I think it was because it was too much work, again ask coobra--Ashbear160 (talk) 11:59, June 15, 2010 (UTC)
Personally after making the orc and then human versions, I wasn't happy with them, so I stopped. Now if someone else wants to pick up the reins on this, that's fine. But don't just upload anything, it should at least be presentable, clean, and easy to identify. SnakeSssssssssssssssssssssssss Coobra sig3For Pony! (Sssss/Slithered) 18:07, June 15, 2010 (UTC)
I think we should avoid picture-icons, and use model shots. I think you'd have gotten a better result if you had taken screenshots instead of recoloring the existing icons :S.--Lon-ami (talk) 18:29, June 15, 2010 (UTC)
Ok, I made improvements to the human and orc versions, tell me what you think. SnakeSssssssssssssssssssssssss Coobra sig3For Pony! (Sssss/Slithered) 06:05, June 17, 2010 (UTC)
I have to say, at first sight, I believe the orc were ghouls!
IconSmall Hamuul Loremaster A'noob, Arch Druid of the Noobhoof Clan (talk/contribz) 07:01, June 17, 2010 (UTC)
Oh-my-god. They're simply AWESOME. You made them yourself, or you took screenshots? I love them, man, seriously. Great work, and looking forward the other races if you decide to make more.--Lon-ami (talk) 10:15, June 17, 2010 (UTC)
Yes these are a vast improved over the old ones, i would love to see the other 16 icons, but that would be to much of a hassle--Ashbear160 (talk) 16:02, June 17, 2010 (UTC)
Will it be useful anyway to have one of each?
IconSmall Hamuul Loremaster A'noob, Arch Druid of the Noobhoof Clan (talk/contribz) 16:07, June 17, 2010 (UTC)
Of course yes, we have NPCs and important characters in-game that are death knights from all the races. Using normal icons for them is, well, wrong. They're a different "race", anyway.--Lon-ami (talk) 16:24, June 17, 2010 (UTC)
Well, I'm happy you all liked them. =) I don't know about all races (I might do them all in the end), but I did notice on the list of DKs, that at least gnome, tauren, troll, and draenei would be nice to have. SnakeSssssssssssssssssssssssss Coobra sig3For Pony! (Sssss/Slithered) 20:16, June 17, 2010 (UTC)
Though we could just use IconSmall UndeadTroll MaleIconSmall UndeadTroll Female for the trolls... great power out, damn storm... SnakeSssssssssssssssssssssssss Coobra sig3For Pony! (Sssss/Slithered) 21:26, June 17, 2010 (UTC)
I have no problem but i want to avoid repetition if those were used for regular undead trolls--Ashbear160 (talk) 21:37, June 17, 2010 (UTC)

Tauren death knight icons

So, for those who didn't notice, Coobra updated these icons: IconSmall TaurenDeathKnight Male and IconSmall TaurenDeathKnight Female.

I think they are great, but I think they need a bit more "zoom". I think they would work better if the "photo" was taken from further. See IconSmall Trag.

Just my opinion ;).--Lon-ami (talk) 08:02, June 18, 2010 (UTC)

Perhaps.. Beast-like humanoids can be a tad annoying to make icons for. Shoulders and such always tend to get in the way. I zoomed out a little... can't say I'm completely happy with the results.. I might start over on the tauren. SnakeSssssssssssssssssssssssss Coobra sig3For Pony! (Sssss/Slithered) 20:54, June 18, 2010 (UTC)

Blood elf DKs

I was thinking of moving IconSmall UndeadElf Female{{RaceIcon|<UndeadElf>|<Female>}} to {{RaceIcon|<DarkRanger>}} since it seems the only models to use that skin are dark rangers, then make a similar one for DKs... however, then I remembered Bloodrose Datura. She used the red eye version... So, question. Do you think we should just use this icon for the DKs or go ahead with what I was thinking? SnakeSssssssssssssssssssssssss Coobra sig3For Pony! (Sssss/Slithered) 22:31, June 18, 2010 (UTC)

Hmm, getting reports her eyes are no longer red, but blue like the rest of the DKs... Can anyone confirm this? SnakeSssssssssssssssssssssssss Coobra sig3For Pony! (Sssss/Slithered) 22:34, June 18, 2010 (UTC)
Eyes are blue now according to wowhead, in my opinion you should make a new one for blood elf and leave undead elf as it is--Ashbear160 (talk) 22:58, June 18, 2010 (UTC)
Undead elf is just like human cultist, leave it as it is, and make new ones for death knights. After all, those icons are already used for darkfallen and dark rangers.--Lon-ami (talk) 10:40, June 19, 2010 (UTC)

Forsaken Deathknights

Coobra i don't want to be mean but don't the forsaken deathknights have a paler skin and blue eyes than normal forsaken, like for example in this skin,[1] i'm okay with the troll death knights since it has blue eyes, but i'd prefer if you or anyone that wanted do it change the forsaken death knight, so i'm going to put it back on the list.--Ashbear160 (talk) 21:42, August 8, 2010 (UTC)

If someone wants to, that's fine, but I'm not going to make a new icon for just eye color difference. To me it's pointless. SnakeSssssssssssssssssssssssss Coobra sig3For Pony! (Sssss/Slithered) 22:54, August 8, 2010 (UTC)
Ok if i was able i would do it but alas i'm not--Ashbear160 (talk) 13:13, August 9, 2010 (UTC)
Finally, thank you varghedin for completing the deathknight icons--Ashbear160 (talk) 13:15, 15 February 2011 (UTC)

Cataclysm List

A list of new models from cataclysm: Transfred to the beginning of the page

Some of these might be datamined(if admins have problems tell me and i remove them each one that is datamined), also mind that this is not request list, but a list to show what new models are there, so the icon makers (sadly i'm not one of them) to know what new races are out there--Ashbear160 (talk) 00:43, July 1, 2010 (UTC)

Tol'vir added, they're still not in-game, but they'll be soon :).--Lon-ami (talk) 17:57, July 1, 2010 (UTC)
List updated--Ashbear160 (talk) 15:01, July 21, 2010 (UTC)
List reupdated--Ashbear160 (talk) 14:34, August 1, 2010 (UTC)
Added icons for existing ones, and those that are marked with IconSmall is used as a subsitute of the image to make it easier for when someone wants to add the image--Ashbear160 (talk) 22:27, August 2, 2010 (UTC)
I've made a lot of icons, but I will not upload them till they've been seen in-game. Seems many of these are datamined, but I'm going to let it slide for now. SnakeSssssssssssssssssssssssss Coobra sig3For Pony! (Sssss/Slithered) 03:29, August 3, 2010 (UTC)
Well i said there would be datamined in here because i'm not in Beta, I've known for a fact that some of these are already in beta like bound elementals in ambermill and such, anyway i have two questions:
-For the deep sea turtle did you use the Tortolla model? because that would be a slight problem.EDIT: you didn't use it seems the colouring is just very similar, my bad...
-When i added waterlord to the list i was requesting a new icon based on the new ingame model, it seems that this is the old photoshopped picture so i'm going to remove it because this is a list for cataclysm models, if you don't mind, the new model is also not datamined.
Thanks--Ashbear160 (talk) 12:31, August 3, 2010 (UTC)
Added angel and twilight ascendant earth--Ashbear160 (talk) 20:48, August 14, 2010 (UTC)
Coobra can you tell me which models you have done, that you think are datamined, so i can scratch them from the list so nobody else does repeats?--Ashbear160 (talk) 10:59, August 15, 2010 (UTC)
At this point, I'm not completely clear what has been officially seen or not, but it doesn't matter... don't think anyone else is making icons. SnakeSssssssssssssssssssssssss Coobra sig3For Pony! (Sssss/Slithered) 03:33, August 19, 2010 (UTC)
I know of some that have been seen that are not on the list trough--Ashbear160 (talk) 09:30, August 19, 2010 (UTC)
Go ahead and add them. SnakeSssssssssssssssssssssssss Coobra sig3For Pony! (Sssss/Slithered) 22:34, August 19, 2010 (UTC)
I trid to make the icons but they were horrible :S--Ashbear160 (talk) 23:22, August 19, 2010 (UTC)
Added types of elemental drake--Ashbear160 (talk) 20:29, August 23, 2010 (UTC)

What is meant by Big Bomb? The bomb inside alliance gunships? SnakeSssssssssssssssssssssssss Coobra sig3For Pony! (Sssss/Slithered) 23:15, September 4, 2010 (UTC)

The Bomb that is dropped in stonetalon mountains on the druid city, also the reason i added to teh cataclysm list is because we have the fire lord, air lord, and earth lord that are used only once for a character, so do we add water lord to this list or we remove all lords from this list and put in the other?--Ashbear160 (talk) 23:49, September 4, 2010 (UTC)
Added two deephome drakes and the scorpion guild mount--Ashbear160 (talk) 19:59, September 23, 2010 (UTC)
Added Mercury Unbound elemental(at least i think it's unbound it's grouped with unbound elementals)
Added 4 from the newest beta patch--Ashbear160 (talk) 22:37, October 2, 2010 (UTC)

And so you're going to keep adding "races" that aren't actually races? --g0urra[T҂C] 22:46, October 2, 2010 (UTC)

The list is now easier to see which aren't complete Also added the dragonman colours that were on the youtube video showing it--Ashbear160 (talk) 14:40, October 8, 2010 (UTC)

All the mercury ooze creatures are technically elementals. Only reason I gave them their own icon. SnakeSssssssssssssssssssssssss Coobra sig3For Pony! (Sssss/Slithered) 23:10, October 9, 2010 (UTC)
... Well we don't know that, Oozes are weird and have strange qualities, if consumption of them grants elemental ascension it's probably due to their relatedness with old gods among other strange things, i prefer if we keep thing together oozes with oozes at least until we have more information--Ashbear160 (talk) 23:27, October 9, 2010 (UTC)
No I mean, every creature using the mercury ooze model is classified as an elemental, whereas mostly all other oozes are unclassified. SnakeSssssssssssssssssssssssss Coobra sig3For Pony! (Sssss/Slithered) 23:30, October 9, 2010 (UTC)
I didn't mean the ingame classification i meant the whole mercury vibe blizzard is giving, as mercury is not a traditional classical element but more of a atomic element so he might turn to be like Murmur or some other weird explination--Ashbear160 (talk) 23:37, October 9, 2010 (UTC)
True... doubt we'll get an answer though... seems we don't get much background/lore on new creatures anymore... SnakeSssssssssssssssssssssssss Coobra sig3For Pony! (Sssss/Slithered) 23:46, October 9, 2010 (UTC)
If we don't i'll ask when the dev questions come after the cataclysm release(i meant i will ask someone on scrolls of lore to post it on wow story forums)--Ashbear160 (talk) 23:49, October 9, 2010 (UTC)

Non-races

Removed vehicles and other things that, in fact, aren't races. --g0urra[T҂C] 22:45, October 2, 2010 (UTC)

i'm going to undo it because this is a project page(this is only here to help edit and not exactly to direct people) and it's designed to put icons based on creature models, wherever they are not races or not that's a problem with the title and not with the content--Ashbear160 (talk) 23:44, October 2, 2010 (UTC)
In fact the article has this written "The term "race" is used in a very broad sense." this page is a guide to the small icons not a list for someone to check for races--Ashbear160 (talk) 23:52, October 2, 2010 (UTC)
They still aren't races. If it's going to be about creature icons, then it should renamed. --g0urra[T҂C] 23:49, October 2, 2010 (UTC)
Talk to coobra he's the one that i ask when i have doubts about this page and he does most of the icons, so yeah check with him but for now i suggest to let it be so it does not create needless confusion--Ashbear160 (talk) 23:52, October 2, 2010 (UTC)
But if you're in a hurry i assume Creature would be more correct than Race, and i would prefer to creature so it's less confusing, just don't remove the icons, please--Ashbear160 (talk) 00:01, October 3, 2010 (UTC)

About the moving (from race to creature)

I think "List of race icons" was better, just because:

  • Race, no matter being incorrect, is more used than creature to define diferent species
  • The two template for the icons are called RaceIcon and Race

I think it was better like before. If I've missed any discussion around this, please link it to me, since I can't find it anywhere :S.--Lon-ami (talk) 09:27, October 3, 2010 (UTC)

It was because mechanical things wouldn't fit, and creatures fit everything, also those 2 don't matter it's not like you'll see them unless you edit...--Ashbear160 (talk) 10:55, October 3, 2010 (UTC)
It still doesn't make sense. Race was fine, imo.--Lon-ami (talk) 14:50, October 8, 2010 (UTC)
Gourra didn't agree and after pointed out i too don't agree--Ashbear160 (talk) 20:36, October 8, 2010 (UTC)
I still think it doesn't make sense... this is a list of "RaceIcon", and the same way you don't call mechanical stuff races, you don't call them creatures, either.--Lon-ami (talk) 09:04, October 18, 2010 (UTC)
Because the term race is usually used to reference sapient beings while the term creature sentient beings--Ashbear160 (talk) 10:53, October 18, 2010 (UTC)
I still think "List of race icons" was a better name, after all, we have a lot of stuff that isn't creatures in here, like boats and mechanical constructs. This is a list of RaceIcon templates, not of CreatureIcon. Also, it's shorter, easier and more user-friendly to use race instead of creature.
I would like to have a vote on this if it doesn't get solved.--Lon-ami (talk) 17:22, 20 January 2011 (UTC)
To me it doesn't matter what it's named, as long as the article itself and it's purpose isn't damage by it.--Ashbear160 (talk) 17:34, 20 January 2011 (UTC)
Bumping this to see if more people comments, if not, guess I'll be able to move it back?--Lon-ami (talk) 13:46, 23 January 2011 (UTC)
I think that neither "race" nor "creature" is an ideal term for the icons, but seeing as they already are named race icons, I'd rather the page name reflect that rather than trying to artificially give it a different name that is about equally ill-fitting. --Varghedin (talk) 23:08, 23 January 2011 (UTC)
Good to see you got my point, Varghedin :).--Lon-ami (talk) 09:42, 24 January 2011 (UTC)

Tiny change in the elemental category

I'm going to change a small part of the four main elemental template, instead of using it by alphabet, it would be by rank however i'll explain better later--Ashbear160 (talk) 12:15, October 10, 2010 (UTC)

Well the idea is this instead of doing by alphabet, we put first by ranks, like the word Fire in fire elemental is the first letter of the alphabet in that category i'll make a small example on how it would go:
  • Element
    • Elemental
    • Unbound
    • Bound
    • Revenant
    • Lord
    • Anything extra is below here by alphabet

what do you think? Here is what would constitute the changes below:

--Ashbear160 (talk) 13:45, October 10, 2010 (UTC)

If you want to do it by rank, you may want to check out the elemental hierarchy. Since we don't seem to have the table anywhere... I went and made one it's not a clean version, but it gets the job done for now... its at User:Coobra/sandbox7. SnakeSssssssssssssssssssssssss Coobra sig3For Pony! (Sssss/Slithered) 20:53, October 10, 2010 (UTC)
It seems size may count for their rank among them... so if they were to be organized by rank, adding the new elementals in between the rest could essentially be done. And the lords should bottom the list. SnakeSssssssssssssssssssssssss Coobra sig3For Pony! (Sssss/Slithered) 21:02, October 10, 2010 (UTC)
It's not literally by rank just those that the only difference is the element they represent, but have examples in all four classical elements, Like having the word fire in the fire elemental section would be considered the first letter of the alphabet--Ashbear160 (talk) 21:21, October 10, 2010 (UTC)
So can i change it to the example above?changed it slightly, now it's by alphabetic orderbut considers things that have examples in the other element has first letter of the alphabet --Ashbear160 (talk) 10:41, October 12, 2010 (UTC)
Sure. SnakeSssssssssssssssssssssssss Coobra sig3For Pony! (Sssss/Slithered) 20:47, October 12, 2010 (UTC)
Thanks--Ashbear160 (talk) 22:17, October 12, 2010 (UTC)

Regarding the Tol'vir

Regarding the Tolvir, do we really need to have icon for each color? Just asking, but we neither have icon for each color of humans hair. Neutralion (talk) 17:24, October 12, 2010 (UTC)

I added all skins because they represented different skins very differently, but i also added the green square before tol'vir if somebody just wants to do one icon instead of all of them i also added this to ramhaken, dragonman, skywall and deepholm drake--Ashbear160 (talk) 19:15, October 12, 2010 (UTC)

Changes to icons

I have noticed icons have been slightly edited. Someone has added a line of "brown2 pixles above their heads. See here:

I'm not sure if they look better this way... opinions?--Lon-ami (talk) 14:21, 21 November 2010 (UTC)

The user went through many icons making them similar to how the main races are.... I'm waiting to see how the public views it... though if he doesn't finish them, I might just revert just to have a standard look. Cause I know many icons I made don't take in account for the loss of details due to a "button" feel to them. SnakeSssssssssssssssssssssssss Coobra sig3For Pony! (Sssss/Slithered) 01:38, 22 November 2010 (UTC)
I would say remove the buttons, because they are very small images and we cannot afford to loose 2 pixels for something purely cosmetical instead of more details.
IconSmall Hamuul Loremaster A'noob, Arch Druid of the Noobhoof Clan (talk/contribz) 08:04, 22 November 2010 (UTC)
It wouldn't mind however, it's much lighter than the other buttons so it kinda looks bad, if it was on a much darker colour like the original buttons i wouldn't have minded at all, just look at the playable orc button to see what i mean, compare the difference between male and female--Ashbear160 (talk) 13:22, 22 November 2010 (UTC)

So I'm hearing a dislike to the changes being done to the icons then? If no one objects we can start reverting them back... I'll check back for objections in about a week, if any. SnakeSssssssssssssssssssssssss Coobra sig3For Pony! (Sssss/Slithered) 02:35, 23 November 2010 (UTC)

First, hello eveyone, the reason why I edit the icons is that I think that now looks better, also for the look-a-like with the principal icons, but if you wanna change it, do it, for me it′s fine. -- Kandooww 20:49, 23 November 2010 (UTC)
I like the new look of the icons. --g0urra[T҂C] 20:19, 23 November 2010 (UTC)
I think the colour is too light compared to the rest of the button and much lighter than the original buttons, make it more like the original ones and i have no problem--Ashbear160 (talk) 20:34, 23 November 2010 (UTC)
I've always been of the opinion that we should replace all the "art" icons for "model" icons, but well. I liked the original ones more :(.
And yeah, I'm with A'noob regarding the loss of pixels.--Lon-ami (talk) 10:33, 24 November 2010 (UTC)

Over the Top

As one of the pioneers among race icon makes, I really think some of these requests are out of hand. We do not need a race icon for every single skin color or eye color or class of the creature. The icons are supposed to be a representative image of a creature of that race, no matter if they're brown or green or a mage or a warrior or have spiky hair or a big nose or whatever. And some of the requests are outright silly. How can we make an icon of a race that's not represented anywhere graphically? The actually useful icon requests are being drowned in a huge pool of ones that don't make sense. --Varghedin (talk) 18:59, 15 December 2010 (UTC)

Specific examples? as for the death knights, I do believe we need them, because they are different from the normal state of their race. As for different colors for the same race, I think it's stupid.--Lon-ami (talk) 19:28, 15 December 2010 (UTC)
From the top, Hill giants are either creatures with no art (the ED type) or just a brown mountain giant. Incubus had no art at all, and their entire existence is speculative. Forsaken death knights have blue eyes instead of yellow, big deal. Chaos orc? Where are those seen? Faceless one caster? Ok so we need a seperate icon just because they wear a robe? Cho'gall disciples are ogres. Yes they have an X on their chest, but that won't show up on the icon anyway. Ravens already have an icon. Stormcrest eagles are eagles. Yeah, they're white. But they're eagles. That's like making a different icon for brunette and blonde humans. Etc etc etc. I could remove them myself but it would probably look like an exorsim with almost half the list gone. --Varghedin (talk) 19:54, 15 December 2010 (UTC)
Well, Hill giants "could" be included just because have icons for all the other giants, but well, not like they are any different...
I pretty much agree with you on everything, except on forsaken and troll death knights, because they're visually different, and not just "blue eyes", their skin is paler, too. I think they deserve an opportunity :S.--Lon-ami (talk) 21:20, 15 December 2010 (UTC)
I heavily agree with Varghedin, it's why I've been ignoring much of the list. But it seems an argument would start every time I removed a request... so I just started leaving things there to forever remain, cause I know I wasn't going to make them. I've tried to accommodate a few of the somewhat silly icon requests, but it has gotten out of hand.... why is there a request for ships, zeps, and subs? As far as I know, players don't physically control them as vehicles, and used on Vehicles by zone, which is why I've been making vehicle icons, specifically for that page. SnakeSssssssssssssssssssssssss Coobra sig3For Pony! (Sssss/Slithered) 23:18, 15 December 2010 (UTC)
Well i can tell some whys
Forsaken Deathknights shouldn't be a exception
Chaos orcs are in the dark portal in cataclysm
Ravens, Crocolisk, air lord and water lord are supposed to be made on the updated models from cataclysm
Cho'gal disciple i put it there because it was a new model and if someone made the human cultist model here(which is pretty much the same thing)they probably wouldn't mind making one about ogres(also didn't readd)
Faceless one caster was just the name we gave it, it's not about the robes, it's the huge mask and the different number of tentacles(which is a lame excuse and didn't readd it)
Stormcrest eagle i need for the alliance page because showing a white eagle as a brown icon looks wrong to me
Hill giant is the only one without a icon so that's why i added it
and removed things that didn't exist--Ashbear160 (talk) 00:44, 16 December 2010 (UTC)
Chaos orc at: http://www.wowhead.com/npc=42301#screenshots:id=192345 --Ashbear160 (talk) 02:11, 16 December 2010 (UTC)
Raven at: http://www.wowhead.com/npc=41651#. --Ashbear160 (talk) 15:28, 16 December 2010 (UTC)
Crocolisk at: http://www.wowhead.com/npc=44260#modelviewer--Ashbear160 (talk) 15:28, 16 December 2010 (UTC)
Tell me what you'll see from that croc you wouldn't see from IconSmall Crocolisk. SnakeSssssssssssssssssssssssss Coobra sig3For Pony! (Sssss/Slithered) 22:18, 16 December 2010 (UTC)
Yes i kinda had doubts with the croc but since i putted everything else that was updated on the list might as well put that one, besides the texture on the new skins are much, much better, just go see it on wowhead the textures(also the new crocs have spiked and shells on the head)--Ashbear160 (talk) 01:34, 17 December 2010 (UTC)
Lol the new crocs don't have those things on the chin, that the old ones have, there's a difference XD--Ashbear160 (talk) 01:35, 17 December 2010 (UTC)
The difference, if any, between chaos orcs and fel orcs has never been fully explained. Monster Guide even outright says that they are the same.--SWM2448 02:01, 17 December 2010 (UTC)
Fine, can anybody check the name of the skin of these guys http://www.wowhead.com/npc=42301/horde-portal-sentry, and either write it here or on the list?--Ashbear160 (talk) 02:12, 17 December 2010 (UTC)
It is not a new skin either.[2]--SWM2448 02:22, 17 December 2010 (UTC)
Wowhead says they aren't(even trough they are) so i can't see the name of the skin...--Ashbear160 (talk) 02:27, 17 December 2010 (UTC)
Because they're not under "Same model as"? Give me a break - Mor'ghor apparently doesn't share model either with his other ID's, despite the fact that he does look the same. --g0urra[T҂C] 10:27, 17 December 2010 (UTC)
I think it would be nice to have icons for boats/zeppelins, for the transportation and route pages.--Lon-ami (talk) 09:52, 17 December 2010 (UTC)
I was talking because wowhead doesn't consider the same model i can't see the name of the skin... i know they are the same creature... --Ashbear160 (talk) 13:53, 17 December 2010 (UTC)
You can see the skin name using WoW Model Viewer. --g0urra[T҂C] 14:02, 17 December 2010 (UTC)
I know but i'm not going to download it...--Ashbear160 (talk) 15:27, 17 December 2010 (UTC)

Updated the latest update list

I was bored hope it helps on what icon models are missing from cata--Ashbear160 (talk) 14:20, 6 January 2011 (UTC)
I also organized the request list by what i think it's order of importance--Ashbear160 (talk) 00:14, 5 February 2011 (UTC)

Ogres and Ogre mages

I think that, after the W3 problem with the number of heads and blue skin, we can "confirm" that 2 heads equals to ogre mages always, and that blue skin doesn't imply ogre magi. The deal now would be to make the default "ogre mage" icon direct to the pink version, instead of the blue one, leaving the blue versions as alternates, both of them, for its corresponding version by number of heads.

So, basically, we should move File:IconSmall_Ogre_Male2.gif to File:IconSmall_OgreMage.gif, File:IconSmall_OgreMage.gif to File:IconSmall_Ogre_Mage2.gif and File:IconSmall_Ogre_Mage2.gif to File:IconSmall_Ogre_Male2.gif.

Opinions?--Lon-ami (talk) 19:13, 22 February 2011 (UTC)

Or, even better:
That way the image names make more sense :).--Lon-ami (talk) 19:16, 22 February 2011 (UTC)
I'm pretty sure I've encountered several two-headed ogres that weren't mages. That said, the whole blue skin thing seems unecessary to me. Ogres comes in red, gray and black shades too. Why don't we just label them 2-headed ogres instead of labeling them by their class? --Varghedin (talk) 22:20, 22 February 2011 (UTC)
I think the name of their sub-race is Ogre Mage--Ashbear160 (talk) 23:20, 22 February 2011 (UTC)
Two-headed ogres and ogre mages are not always the same thing.--SWM2448 03:23, 23 February 2011 (UTC)
The I suggest changing "ogre-mage" to "ogre-2-head", keeping my suggestion above. I'm with Varghedin, blue skin is unnecessary and confusing.--Lon-ami (talk) 16:59, 11 March 2011 (UTC)

Undead quillboar

Hmm vargedhin there was already a undead quillboar, in the undead section... i put it there as a alternate icon, hope you have no problems--Ashbear160 (talk) 17:46, 23 February 2011 (UTC)

Whoops, I looked under humanoids. No need to have duplicates; I removed it. --Varghedin (talk) 21:41, 23 February 2011 (UTC)

Kandooww's "modification" to the icons

So, some time ago, user Kandooww modified some icons, adding some sort of line above, to give more "icon" looks. I don't remember where, but I think we reached the decision that, with the small number of bits, we couldn't afford it.

But today, looking at some icons, I noticed it's still around. An example: File:IconSmall Wildhammer Male.gif. Look at both versions, and you'll see what I mean. So, should we revert all those pending editions or discuss the matter again? the new icons made for Cataclysm don't have those lines, so I think it's safe to revert everything to the originals.--Lon-ami (talk) 00:32, 6 March 2011 (UTC)

Discussion took place just a little above at #Changes to icons. I just never went around and reverted them yet, was waiting on more comments, but then I forgot. SnakeSssssssssssssssssssssssss Coobra sig3For Pony! (Sssss/Slithered) 00:53, 6 March 2011 (UTC)
Well i don't like them brown is not a good colour--Ashbear160 (talk) 01:27, 6 March 2011 (UTC)
Personally, I don't like the line - it takes away more than 5 % of the icon's pixel space, and the aesthetic look it creates isn't even all that appealing to me. --Varghedin (talk) 18:11, 6 March 2011 (UTC)
Guess it's a yes for "revert them" :).--Lon-ami (talk) 20:38, 6 March 2011 (UTC)
I believe I got them all, if not go ahead and do a revert. Give it a little while though... the images need time to fix themselves. =) SnakeSssssssssssssssssssssssss Coobra sig3For Pony! (Sssss/Slithered) 04:07, 7 March 2011 (UTC)
I don't find any missing one. Great job ;).--Lon-ami (talk) 17:00, 11 March 2011 (UTC)

Names of some creatures

Hope i'm not a nuisance, but i put the term titanic guardian because 3 creatures with that model are called Titanic Guardian and i've never heard the name Pyramid watcher.
And the rock giant, have they ever been called that? if not i would like to suggest to change it to either mineral giant or gem giant since the name of the creatures with that model are directly referenced to that(Feldspar, Emerald and Opal).--Ashbear160 (talk) 22:38, 20 March 2011 (UTC)
Where are these 3 creatures you mention called Titanic Guardians? The Pyramid Watchers are located in southern Uldum at Neferset. Also, the rock giants are called mineral giants anywhere. Feldspar, Emerald and Opal are all types of rock (which is solid aggregate mineral). Besides, "mineral giant" sounds rather silly, don't you think? --Varghedin (talk) 00:55, 21 March 2011 (UTC)
Ugh Titanic Guardians are the same Creature with a different hat(Green Hat), ow i just have to find the model for the purple hat..., and well mineral giats was a old idea that's why i suggested gem giants.--Ashbear160 (talk) 01:22, 21 March 2011 (UTC)
Ok, Titanic Guardian is fine. Gem giant is better than mineral giant, but it still sounds strange to me. In WMV, they are called "Deepholm Golems". Although I think 'golem' is inappropriate, they could safely be called Deepholm Giants, for example. --Varghedin (talk) 08:42, 21 March 2011 (UTC)
Changed it to Emerald colossus, since that's what they're called in The Axe of Earthly Sundering. --g0urra[T҂C] 08:43, 21 March 2011 (UTC)
The reason I didn't call them that was that the Opal Stonethrowers use the same model with a different color, indicating the color relates to the mineral rock they are made from (opal and emerald are quite distinct from each other, so the term "Emerald colossus" couldn't cover the "Opal colossus" type). In regards to their elemental nature, I do think it's right to be placing them there since they probably have their origin in Deepholm, which is a separate dimension from the Azerothian giants. I was unsure of where to put it but I chose giants since they have that creature type in-game.
How about a compromise - "Gemstone Colossus"? It removes the giant sub-type, keeps the colossus name from "Emerald Colossus", and broadens the type of mineral to include Opal and Feldspar, and it's closer to what Ashbear suggested as well --Varghedin (talk) 09:00, 21 March 2011 (UTC)
Sounds fair to me. --g0urra[T҂C] 09:34, 21 March 2011 (UTC)
That's cool--Ashbear160 (talk) 10:28, 21 March 2011 (UTC)

Tigon Female

Varghedin you seem to have forgot to add the female tigon icon, just noting that--Ashbear160 (talk) 18:55, 23 March 2011 (UTC)

Scorpions

I noticed that most scorpions use a new model based on the korkhon anhiliator, should we change the korkhon anhilihator name to something like cataclysm scorpion or alternate scorpion, and what should be the name of the icons of the updated models of raven and crocolisks?--Ashbear160 (talk) 19:14, 23 March 2011 (UTC)

Latest Update List

I updated the list with some new models of this patch, left the unfinished so it's not just 2 models on the list--Ashbear160 (talk) 18:49, 25 March 2011 (UTC)

Please clarify the Big Cats Cub... are you talking about the Guardian Cub? SnakeSssssssssssssssssssssssss Coobra sig3For Pony! (Sssss/Slithered) 21:48, 25 March 2011 (UTC)
The 5 models after ragnaros in this page
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