Forum:Cataclysm lore discussion

Forums: Village pump → Warcraft lore → Cataclysm lore discussion

Kicking off this thread to discuss the newly revealed lore about the worgen, goblins and Deathwing :) What do you think?

Personally, I think they've done a pretty good job, and it's starting to tie in a lot more of the lore originally revealed in the RPG books. Kirkburn  talk  contr 17:30, 26 August 2009 (UTC)

It seems the Holy Light comes from the sun, like regular light. Malykriss looks done and operational (Death Star joke coming?). Somehow the Lich King has a huge forge under the glacier, but it does not melt.

The Elemental Plane(s) are not so much in the Twisting Nether anymore, and the way they look like they are connected to Azeroth makes me think they never were. That or they were really shoved. A panel said Deathwing brought them 'up or down', which does not really fit the inside-out planet or half-planet thing. Deephome is now described as Deathwing's domain. Is it where he was under Grim Batol, or another cavern? If it was where he was in Night of the Dragon, then that supports the 'Deephome was under Azeroth' theory. Also, what happened to Therazane? Defeated? Dethroned? ...Seduced? From Sintharia we know the effects of being humped my molten things... Can a rock stand it?

If Uldum is in Egyptian style and full of hexagonal hallways, what does that make Ahn'Qiraj? If the titans built Ahn'Qiraj (which is right next door to Uldum), and the Old Gods took it, then that explains why a constantly inhabited city is in ruins. Also the Tol'vir are stone cats, and the Anubisaths are stone dogs. Connection?--SWM2448 21:07, 26 August 2009 (UTC)

It seems rather likely. Did you notice the scarabs on the walls in the Uldum concept art? -- Dark T Zeratul (talk) 21:23, 26 August 2009 (UTC)

I did, but I forgot about them.--SWM2448 21:28, 26 August 2009 (UTC)

I have one thing to say about the new Blizz lore... HOLY COW!!! XD Max Krist (talk) 05:47, 27 August 2009 (UTC)

Given the Tauren's new classes, quite literally. While some of the new lore looks better planned than some of the earlier changes, I can't help but feel that some of the changes feel rushed. It also reeks of them giving in to fans- Worgen, goblins, and Garrosh becoming so important seem like things that were pushed for more from without than within. Also, revealing Deathwing's new MASSIVE EVIL suddenly makes me totally uninterested in whatever's going to happen at Icecrown in a few months. --Ragestorm (talk · contr) 01:11, 28 August 2009 (UTC)

Worgen

I feel they are heavily retconning the Worgen, this upsets me to no end, I really don't favor the idea of them being some experiment gone awry from a Purple People druidic cult. I think enough of the lore is dedicated to the purple people, it's really unnecessary to destroy an entire racial history that is heavily established in order to give them more. Revrant (talk) 01:43, 28 August 2009 (UTC)

The worgen backstory seems to have been taken entirely from somebody's pre-BC fanfic. Moreover, they seem to have been pretty randomly thrown in without any real connection to other events. -- Dark T Zeratul (talk) 02:11, 28 August 2009 (UTC)

You mean their retconned backstory in relation to Cataclysm? If so I would have to agree, don't get me wrong, I love Worgen, and I love the new Goblin models that are true to the lore and art, but they do seem kind of thrown in there. The lore side of things really confuses me, because Worgen can't become humans, only the experiment by Arugal resulted in that, and it's not a matter of will, so how did Gilneas, totally cut off from the world, manage it? Revrant (talk) 02:34, 28 August 2009 (UTC)

I agree about the worgen (my word was "contrived"), think draenei should get druid (they're literally the only race currently not slated to get a new class, it wouldn't be that hard to explain off, and the feral forms would be epic) and think that the worgen models look like schipperkes.  I'm not too fond of goblins, either.
Farseer Lolotea • talk • contrib 06:14, 30 August 2009 (UTC)

Contrived is a good word for the retcon, I hope they shape it more as time goes on, as is it's rather terrible nonsense. I care very little about Draenei outside of lore, since they were so warped by the "art" direction of the game, but indeed it could be. Schipperke, if a schipperke was the size of a Tauren perhaps, ;) but I do some some resemblance, I'm hoping against hope the other races get a reskin and texture reworking to better reflect the art and lore, honestly. I love the new goblins, who look like they should, but I wasn't a fan of the green gnomes- sorry, goblins, from before. Revrant (talk) 22:15, 30 August 2009 (UTC)

Now, see, I like draenei; they're tied with trolls as my favorites (yeah, it's all about the Tall Blues for me)...and, in my opinion, all of the in-game models leave something to be desired. I also tend to call goblins "green gnomes," and suspect that they'll be the new race of choice for deliberately irritating players. And I thought that worgen were only about orc- or draenei-sized (I'd heard that Alliance races have a maximum height limit due to doorways, although that could certainly get changed in Cata).
Farseer Lolotea • talk • contrib 09:02, 31 August 2009 (UTC)

I just wish they, and oddly enough the trolls now that you mention them, reflected the art and lore anatomically, they took a lot of sexist, creative license with that via every race but the Forsaken. After looking over some more footage, I guess they are Draenei sized, but slimmer with squarer shoulders. I doubt any will surpass the Gnomes as irritating, part of what makes them so irritating is their bizarre anatomy and "cuteness", I've always found Goblins to be much more endearing. Revrant (talk) 10:07, 1 September 2009 (UTC)

Ysera

With Deathwing being the primary antagonist of this expansion pack, what do people think about Ysear coming out as a more relevant character in this expansion? I'm more with the people that say there should be an expansion for the Emerald Dream (even though I don't roll any druids of my own), but with the sleeping druids coming back to help defend Azeroth, will this mean that we may be able to enter, in some form, the Emerald Dream more than we have in the past (the few quests set in Moonglade)? What are peoples views here? Del-phoenix (talk) 08:52, 31 August 2009 (UTC)

I doubt we will see anything with her with this expansion or much more about the Emerald Dream than we have in the past. I honestly believe we will be killing a Nightmare Corrupted Ysera in the future. Leviathon (talk) 18:30, 31 August 2009 (UTC)

If there is an Emerald Dream expansion, it would most likely involve us entering it. However there's still no real knowledge how a non-druid would enter unless those portals are the way. Which still seems to conflict with entering it since druids can only do so through a dream state, not physically. Hard to say. And Ysera being corrupted is highly unlikely.

She resides in "The Eye of Ysera" which is an area of the Dream that moves constantly and only she resides there. It's uncorrupted and nearly impossible to entre. But it still is possible for Ysera to be corrupted. I'd hate to see that. Her appearing in Cataclysm is probably a no-no.

Her generic model appearance in WotLK wasn't actually her; just more of an apparition. Similar to Nozdormu. I definitely see more action from the Wyrmrest Accord, though. Possibly a second, newer faction like the Cenarion Circle to the Expedition and Argent Dawn to the Argent Crusade. Netherwings would be nice to hear from again.

They definitely have a bone to pick with the one who left them on the shattered world as a bizarre, unknown subspecies of dragon and then his past allies, the Dragonmaw, began to enslave them and Deathwing's ex-consort, Sinestra, used them in her experiments to make the Nether dragon rip off race, the Twilights. Who in my opinion are just as bad as the Twilight series. I would also like to see more news on the Infinite Dragonflight. If they are corrupt Bronze Dragons, it would seem as if all dragons are destined to end somehow. Reds are next. Blacks were the first to go bad; blues after; greens are being changed by the Nightmare; and now Bronzes seems to becoming something extremely horrid.

Another thing is that Malygos was never determined dead. So he could make some alarming reappearance and the blues may be defending Azeroth once again. So many possibilities with the expansion. Who knows what will happen? Mykael Mourningsun (talk) 05:57, 1 September 2009 (UTC)

Ysera being corrupted being highly unlikely is ignoring the quest in Dragonblight that seems to imply she has succumbed to the Nightmare. We don't know the situation in the Emerald Dream so it is very possible that the Eye has been attacked by the force causing the Nightmare. Directly from the quest: "Ysera sleeps in the Emerald Dream, watching over both the Dream and Azeroth. But a horrible nightmare has taken hold in the Dream, and now I fear that Ysera is being affected by it." Leviathon (talk) 20:18, September 1, 2009 (UTC)

I'm starting to think we are heading to the replacement of the older Dragon Aspects by some new blood. Maybe is just me, but I think Blizzard could want to transform some more "familiar" characters into the natural replacements for older Aspects that have gone insane / evil: Chromie replacing a Nozdormu that has become the leader of the Infinites, Tyri or Kalec becoming a new Aspect of Magic with the Nethers under their command, and so. Anyway, Cataclysm is the opportunity to change everything they want. Why replacing old Aspects? Maybe because not everyone knows the all the former except for referencies and the ocasional raid boss, but all the players have had some contact with important members of each Dragonflight.--Morgaur (talk) 15:45, September 9, 2009 (UTC)

I am fairly certain that Med'an and the Council of Tirisfal are the new 'Aspect of Magic'. Metzen hinted at it in what I think was a BlizzCast.--SWM2448 20:08, September 9, 2009 (UTC)

I'm not so sure... The original Council of Tirisfal had an entirely different purpose and didn't really overlap with Malygos' domain at all. I have little reason to doubt that the new Council will be any different. -- Dark T Zeratul (talk) 00:29, September 10, 2009 (UTC)

Neutral Goblins

What will happen to the Goblins that are neutral such as those affiliated with the Steamwheedle Cartel? Will they remain neutral or join the Horde like the goblins forced off of Kezan?AhotahThunderhorn (talk) 02:52, September 10, 2009 (UTC)

They're remaining neutral. It's only that one small faction of goblins that joined the Horde. -- Dark T Zeratul (talk) 03:42, September 10, 2009 (UTC)

Uldum, Ahn'Qiraj, and the Council of Tirisfal

The new Uldum zone is quite close to Ahn'Qiraj. I think it would be interesting if a C'thun-infused Cho'gall would make an appearance as the main antagonist of the zone. This could even lead to several as yet unseen Warcraft Comic characters appear to fight the new Cho'gall. New Council of Tirisfal perhaps?AhotahThunderhorn (talk) 12:23, September 10, 2009 (UTC)

Unless he's killed within the comic itself, which seems entirely likely to me. -- Dark T Zeratul (talk) 00:53, September 11, 2009 (UTC)

With such drastic geographic changes to old world Azeroth, will any of the old quests be redesigned? For example, vehicle mechanics and phashing could be reintroduced.AhotahThunderhorn (talk) 21:12, September 12, 2009 (UTC)

They're redesigning the world, it would be silly to believe the quests will not change as well. And they already said phasing will become a part of the old world. Sssssssssssssssssssssssss For Pony! (^Sssss/_Slithered) 21:58, September 12, 2009 (UTC)

Basically the Cataclysm serves to get vanilla up to speed. All that Blizzard has learned, all the new technologies, all of it, is comming to the Old World so that the game feels more unified. gadget (talk) 03:46, September 18, 2009 (UTC)

The one thing I'd like to see them do is change up the start up for the old races as they have done for the DK and will do for the worgen and goblins. Give more of an introduction and like BEs and Draenei show off and explain the racials for the old races as well, now that they have a chance to make those changes. Sssssssssssssssssssssssss For Pony! (^Sssss/_Slithered) 05:47, September 19, 2009 (UTC)

Yes, that would be awesome. I also expect a more of a progressing world with a lot of phasing. gadget (talk) 08:53, September 19, 2009 (UTC)

I found an interesting little tidbit in Lands of Mystery that seems to connect the Titans and Qiraji (beyond hating each other) long before Uldum was announced, and its concept art shown. J.D. Collie says:

"...until I found the first Crystal Pylon. Located in the east, guarded by the pterrodax, this humming pillar holds the same sort of runes found on the Stone Guardians as well as the hovering pylons that guard the entrance to the crater."

The 'pylons' in Thistleshrub Valley are the same ones that flank the gates of AQ. RPG mistake, or has Blizzard had this idea from the start?--SWM2448 19:54, October 4, 2009 (UTC)

I think it's refering to the large crystal pylons in Un'goro, y'know the ones that are miniature versions of the ones in sholazar basin? And the runes are refering to the elite golems that patrol everywhere, nothing to do with the qiraji. Twas Brillig (talk) 12:40, October 13, 2009 (UTC)

None of the three pylons in Un'goro hover. The qiraji ones do.--SWM2448 21:14, October 13, 2009 (UTC)

Well since Cho'gall has survivived the comic series, it only makes since to reopen the discussion of his and the Council of Tirisfal's appearance in Cataclysm and the Uldum zone.AhotahThunderhorn (talk) 02:47, December 7, 2009 (UTC)

Tauren Paladins

Tauren Paladin. While we're at it, let's have draenei rogues and gnome hunters. If this continues I'm going to d&d and swtor. BobNamataki (talk) 21:58, November 21, 2009 (UTC)

I thought it showed up earlier on this forum, but I guess not. See sunwalker. -- Dark T Zeratul (talk) 22:16, November 21, 2009 (UTC)

There's nothing in the entirety of the lore that suggests Tauren cannot be Paladins, absolutely nothing, anyone can be a Paladin, even the Undead in a unique case have managed it. I'm perturbed by why I see so many people so very insistent that Tauren can't be Paladins while we have Undead throwing around nature magic, befriending living beasts, and using the Hunter's variation of Shamanism, all things that lore says they cannot do. Revrant (talk) 11:41, December 30, 2009 (UTC)

Indeed. Of all the new lore changes, this one doesn't seem that bad. They figure the night elves rely heavily on the moon, why don't they provide balance by chanelling the sun?--Ragestorm (talk · contr) 15:33, December 30, 2009 (UTC)

The Tauren also channel the moon as the other eye of the Earthmother, that seems to be what the discussion on Thunder Bluff hints at. I'm most baffled by Undead Hunters, who outwardly contradict everything lore has taught us regarding nature magic, I can only hope this relates to the (assumed)death of the Lich King. Revrant (talk) 08:37, December 31, 2009 (UTC)

It seems the lore seems to fit, but that is not going to stop the "holy cow" jokes. Now, regarding undead hunters. Two words: Nathanos Blightcaller. --Joshmaul (talk) 09:31, December 31, 2009 (UTC)