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| + | {{Guild|name=Templar Knights|realm=Mannoroth|loc=US}} |
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| − | {{Forumheader|Wowpedia technical|Wowpedia general}} |
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| + | {{Guildbox |
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| − | <!-- Please put your content under this paragraph. Be sure to sign your edits with four tildes ~~~~ --> |
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| + | | name = Templar Kníghts |
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| + | | server = Mannoroth |
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| + | | location = US |
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| + | | image = |
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| + | | leader = Lothy |
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| + | | level = 85 |
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| + | | type = PvP / PvE |
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| + | | faction = Alliance |
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| + | | accounts = 50 + |
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| + | | web = http://www.templarknightsguild.com/ |
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| ⚫ | |||
| + | Templar Knights recently moved from Mug'thol to Mannoroth. We are better than you. |
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| − | I am currently contemplating implementing an extension that'd allow us to alter how default (<nowiki>[[Page]]</nowiki>) links to a page look like on a per-page basis. Essentially, it'd allow you to type a basic link and get a formatted text output: |
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| − | {| class="darktable" style="padding: 0" |
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| − | ! Wikitext |
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| − | ! style="width: 12em"| Current Output !! Proposed Output |
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| − | |- |
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| − | | <code><nowiki>[[Shadowmourne]]</nowiki></code> || [[Shadowmourne]] || {{item|Shadowmourne}} |
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| − | |- |
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| − | | <code><nowiki>[[Nordrassil Wrath-Kilt]]</nowiki></code> || [[Nordrassil Wrath-Kilt]] || {{item|Nordrassil Wrath-Kilt}} |
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| − | |- |
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| − | | <code><nowiki>[[Quest:In Dreams]]</nowiki></code> || [[Quest:In Dreams]] || {{questlong|Neutral|60|In Dreams}} |
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| − | |- |
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| − | | <code><nowiki>[[Tripping the Rifts]]</nowiki></code> || [[Tripping the Rifts]] || {{achievementlong|Tripping the Rifts}} |
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| − | |- |
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| − | | <code><nowiki>[[Enchant Weapon - Agility]]</nowiki></code> || [[Enchant Weapon - Agility]] || {{loot|enchant|Enchant Weapon - Agility}} |
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| − | |- |
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| − | | <code><nowiki>[[Void Terror]]</nowiki></code> || [[Void Terror]] || {{mob|Void Terror|level=67-68}} |
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| − | |- |
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| − | | <code><nowiki>[[API CreateFrame]]</nowiki></code> || [[API CreateFrame]] || [[API CreateFrame|CreateFrame]] |
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| ⚫ | |||
| − | Note that this only applies to default links (links without a specified caption text) -- if you wanted to do something particularly fancy, like {{item|Shadowmourne|Super-Shadowmourne}}, you'd still use our current syntax; and if you wanted a normal link, you could just append a pipe: <code><nowiki>[[Shadowmourne|]]</nowiki></code>. The choice of what to display for which pages is independent of the extension itself, so the examples above are not necessarily binding -- we could use the {{item|Shadowmourne|icon=}} style for item links, for instance. |
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| + | == Guild progress == |
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| − | For wiki-related purposes, the links would behave as ordinary links -- not template/page transclusions, as the current item/loot/quality system works. |
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| + | *We are done raiding in WotLK and will resume with 25man raids in Cataclysm. |
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| − | Do you have any thoughts, suggestions, or questions related to this? — [[User:Foxlit|foxlit]] ([[User talk:Starlightblunder|talk]]) 22:58, 9 November 2010 (UTC) |
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| + | == History == |
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| − | :No thanks, I'd rather have a default choice that how we link now would show a link, not something colored in brackets and icons everywhere. --{{User:Gourra/Sig2}} 23:05, 9 November 2010 (UTC) |
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| + | This guild was originaly formed on Mug'thol and was a top Raiding Guild in that realm until we switched to Mannoroth after the entire Alliance Faction on that realm did Faction Switched to Horde. That bloody realm is now 90/10 horde to Alliance. |
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| − | :I'm with gourra in this. As well, such a change decreases the consistency of how the markup is used, which makes it harder for people to jump in and change things and expect certain outputs for the person's input markup. Plus, this creates something of a dependency of an extension on templates, which is somewhat backward. --[[User:Sky2042|Sky]] ([[User talk:Sky2042|talk]]) 23:45, 9 November 2010 (UTC) |
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| + | == Weekly raid schedule == |
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| − | :: I'm not convinced that the "But I want a link by default!" case has much merit -- most links to database content are already formatted using those templates, to the point that it's the defacto default, only a much bigger pain for the editors to type. Check it out: [[Special:WhatLinksHere/Rich Purple Silk Shirt|Item]], [[Special:WhatLinksHere/Tripping_the_Rifts|Achievement]], [[Special:WhatLinksHere/Quest:Prophecies Of Doom (Alliance)|Quest]]... seems like the majority of incoming links is passed through a formatting template anyway. Ultimately, I do not see article paragraphs becoming christmas trees because of this change -- moderation in formatting use is ensured by editors, and this doesn't make it particularly hard. It would be helpful if you could point out concrete pages that would prove troublesome here. |
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| − | ::My personal opinion is that this change would '''vastly improve''' usability for editors: adding a quest/item/achievement link is no longer an exercise in "What is that link template called again? Do I want quest or questlong? What do I pass it? In what order? Is this a group quest or an elite quest? Screw it, I'm going home." -- the change makes it a simple "Do I want to draw attention to this link, or blend it in with the other text?" choice, and the behavior and syntax can be explained in a single sentence, rather than miles of template documentation. As an additional benefit, we get links that reflect article content, rather than the randomly-sprinkled instances of questlong/loot that may fall out of sync with the article they're linking to. |
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| − | ::I don't consider "dependency of an extension on templates" to be an argument at all -- the extension is blissfully ignorant of templates, nor would it matter if it wasn't. — [[User:Foxlit|foxlit]] ([[User talk:Starlightblunder|talk]]) 00:24, 10 November 2010 (UTC) |
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| + | *Tuesday, 9:00 PM Server - [[TBA]] |
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| − | :::I would say it does matter if it were (as that's your opinion and you ''didn't'' offer much of a reason to support your opinion—mine obviously disagrees), but as it's not, it's a moot point.<br />And that's your personal opinion. I'm of the opinion that we should be keeping things ''consistent''. If I want a link, I want a link. If I want a pretty link, I want a template/pretty link. If I want a quest, then I'll use a quest template. I see where you're coming from with "do I want to draw attention?", but manipulating current syntax in that manner will make things more confusing for newbies. End of story.<br />I would be fine with supporting a {{#item:xxx}} parser type syntax, or the xml looking syntax of <item>xxx</item>, or even <item name="xxx" />, but I see your examples as an abuse and usurpation of the linking syntax. (As a note, [[User:Teomyr|Teomyr]] was looking into doing this sort of thing way back in 2007.) Further, there is already extensive documentation on the difficulties and perks of the current linking syntax, such as the pipe-trick and others (which we could and should have a local copy of); extending the documentation to cover your case would be, as before, a nightmare of consistency. "Link this like this, but this like this for all these other things" is somewhat stupid. --[[User:Sky2042|Sky]] ([[User talk:Sky2042|talk]]) 00:47, 10 November 2010 (UTC) |
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| + | *Wednesday, 9:00 PM Server - [[TBA]] |
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| − | ::::It's not really stretching the normal syntax to any significant degree -- <nowiki>[[Shadowmourne]]</nowiki> still produces a link to [[Shadowmourne]], formatted as the server wants it to be. If you want to format it differently, the situation is the same as it is now -- you have to use the piped link syntax or some template. I do not think this is much in conflict with existing documentation: "Link like this to produce a link to the page; link like that to customize the link's appearance; these are some templates you might like." MediaWiki can already produce several different types of links from the same syntax, so adding a few more does not seem like a big stumbling block for newbies, and is a major time-saver for editors who know how it works. |
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| + | *Thursday, 9:00 PM Server - [[TBA]] |
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| − | ::::I do not particularly like the alternate tags you suggested: they end up being longer than the current <nowiki>{{item|XXX}}</nowiki> implementation, at which point they aren't saving me, as an editor, any effort. Using the internal link syntax also keeps the wikitext compatible with standard MediaWiki without the extension. — [[User:Foxlit|foxlit]] ([[User talk:Starlightblunder|talk]]) 01:56, 10 November 2010 (UTC) |
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| − | :'''Approve'''. I think that automatically formatting links based on the page linked to is an awesome idea. [[User:Jamash|Jamash]] ([[User talk:Jamash|talk]]) 00:56, 10 November 2010 (UTC) |
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| − | ::I'd be for this in the sense that we get {{t|quest}}-like formatting out of this instead of {{t|questlong}}-style. Just enough to get the javascript tooltip working. <nowiki>[[Quest:The Master's Plan]]</nowiki> would output the code generated by <nowiki>{{quest|The Master's Plan}}</nowiki> and the like. <nowiki>[[Jaina Proudmore]]</nowiki> -> <nowiki>{{NPC||Jaina Proudmoore}}</nowiki>. |
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| − | ::The issue, of course, is with items/spells/achievements. I don't see an easy solution with these other than to display the colored brackets like we do now with {{t|loot}}/{{t|achievement}}/{{t|ability}}. Just without the achievement point icon. --<span style="border-bottom: 1px dotted;cursor:help;" title="Wowpedia bureaucrat">[[User:Kaydeethree|k]]_[[User_talk:Kaydeethree|d]]<sup>[[Special:Contributions/Kaydeethree|3]]</sup></span> 01:26, 10 November 2010 (UTC) |
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| − | :::I thought I'd hear this from you, especially with all the toolips generated by {{t|NPC}} and {{t|quest}} pretty much everywhere possible. The one thing we need to ask is if we really need this? --{{User:Gourra/Sig2}} 20:40, 10 November 2010 (UTC) |
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| − | ::::Like I said on IRC last night, making things easier for editors (and bots!) gets a vote from me. I would much rather see articles and template calls full of <nowiki>[[Link]]s</nowiki> than <nowiki>{{Template|foo}}</nowiki> links. Since you're aware of how I have been making articles lately, you know that I use the latter for semantic purposes rather than formatting purposes, these days. (As compared to my [[The Scepter of the Shifting Sands quest chain]] crusade a few years back—has it really been that long?—which had icons everywhere...) I want the links to ''mean'' something, rather than be a blind pointer elsewhere. |
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| − | ::::Bot-assisted editing cycles actually being able to handle native links rather than our templated-approximation of them would be quite useful and I'd vote yes to this proposal for that aspect alone. That JS tooltips would work everywhere is a nice bonus, but, as was also pointed out on IRC, not the point of this. --<span style="border-bottom: 1px dotted;cursor:help;" title="Wowpedia bureaucrat">[[User:Kaydeethree|k]]_[[User_talk:Kaydeethree|d]]<sup>[[Special:Contributions/Kaydeethree|3]]</sup></span> 21:11, 10 November 2010 (UTC) |
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| − | :::::The problem I have though is with the proposed changes to <nowiki>[[Quest:|]]</nowiki> and NPC links, having the levels and factions being default just clutters the whole thing. Imagine an article that have a lot of links to characters. --{{User:Gourra/Sig2}} 00:50, 11 November 2010 (UTC) |
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| − | ::::::Is there any way to have something like <code><autolinkformat></autolinkformat></code> and <code><nolinkformat></nolinkformat></code> somewhat like how <code><onlyinclude></onlyinclude></code> and <code><noinclude></noinclude></code> work for templates? --[[Image:gengar orange 22x22.png]] [[User:Fandyllic|Fandyllic]] <small>([[User talk:Fandyllic|talk]] · [[Special:Contributions/Fandyllic|contribs]])</small> 6:19 PM PST 10 Nov 2010 |
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| − | :::::::And where exactly would those be? --{{User:Gourra/Sig2}} 08:02, 11 November 2010 (UTC) |
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| − | ::::::::I didn't say those tags existed, I was just asking if we could implement something that would work with new tags. Did you read what I said? --[[Image:gengar orange 22x22.png]] [[User:Fandyllic|Fandyllic]] <small>([[User talk:Fandyllic|talk]] · [[Special:Contributions/Fandyllic|contribs]])</small> 9:45 AM PST 11 Nov 2010 |
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| − | :::::::::I think the question was how would they work? We could theoretically implement it that way on an item-by-item basis but what would be the point there? --{{User:Pcj/sig}} 16:47, 11 November 2010 (UTC) |
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| − | ::::::::Maybe just <code><nolinkformat></nolinkformat></code> for those people who want their links to be more plain in areas like history, lore, or non-list sections. I misspoke when comparing them to the include tags. A better example might be <code><nowiki></nowiki></code>. If link formatting is turned on globally, it could get out of control and seems to act contrary to the concerns voiced in [[Forum:Abuse of Template:Npc on links]]. |
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| − | ::::::::As to how they would work, I'd have to see the actual code for some ideas, but it doesn't seem far fetched. --[[Image:gengar orange 22x22.png]] [[User:Fandyllic|Fandyllic]] <small>([[User talk:Fandyllic|talk]] · [[Special:Contributions/Fandyllic|contribs]])</small> 9:51 AM PST 11 Nov 2010 |
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| − | :::::::::I think the intent is to do something like <nowiki>[[Shadowmourne|]]</nowiki> to not render an item link. --{{User:Pcj/sig}} 16:54, 11 November 2010 (UTC) |
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| − | ::::::::::...and most people won't want to go back and do that to a whole raft of links all over the wiki. If like 20 links appear in a section and you want to turn off the formatting for all of them, adding 20 pipes is not going to be desirable. Unless we have a bot to add pipes to everything and then remove them selectively. Both ideas don't sound so good to me. --[[Image:gengar orange 22x22.png]] [[User:Fandyllic|Fandyllic]] <small>([[User talk:Fandyllic|talk]] · [[Special:Contributions/Fandyllic|contribs]])</small> 9:59 AM PST 11 Nov 2010 |
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| − | :::::::::::I agree, we probably don't want to use the normal link syntax for just this reason. But an easy syntax to remove all the guesswork would be nice. --{{User:Pcj/sig}} 17:02, 11 November 2010 (UTC) |
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| − | :::::: As I've said before, it would be interesting to see specific examples that might cause a problem here. Taking a hypothetical page with lots of character links into consideration, there are a number of questions one might ask -- why does the page have so many character links? what is it actually linking to? does it needlessly repeat links to the same page? do none of those links have captions? In the end, my feeling is that the number of pages where this is a problem is probably minor compared to the number of pages where it is not. Let us suppose, however, that there is a legitimate page that becomes problematic with this formatting, and consider how we might be able to deal with that: |
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| − | ::::::* The simplest solution is to simply get editors to use piped link syntax (which would not be formatted) where formatting behavior is not desired. We already rely on our editors to make judgements as to what looks best in any specific situation, so this seems like solution that is reasonable in the long term. |
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| − | ::::::* We can control which pages use the linked formatting, both broadly (through templates used on those pages), or an individual page basis. For instance, [[Thrall]] is linked predominantly to refer to the character rather than any specific NPC instance, so it might be wise to avoid formatting those links needlessly. Note that the table above lists a monster as an example; the case for monsters is a bit more clear-cut than for NPCs. |
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| − | ::::::* We could disable the link formatting functionality on a per-page basis -- if a page suffers horribly from this change and you have no time to fix it, disabling all formatted links on the page is an easy short-term option. |
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| − | ::::::* Finally, if one just can't stand formatted links on a wiki, it should be possible to disable the formatting through personal CSS. |
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| − | ::::::My key point here is that that this change keeps the choice of how a particular link appears in the article firmly in the individual editors' hands -- it is still easy to get a non-formatted link, and it is much easier for editors to create formatted links where they think it would be appropriate. While the transition might be problematic for a small fraction of our existing content, the methods outlined above should make those problems surmountable. We also do not have to push out all of the changes at once -- it might make sense to experiment on particular classes of articles and see what issues (if any) we experience. |
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| − | ::::::In my mind, the ease-of-use offered by the change outweigh the costs of updating some pages once. — [[User:Foxlit|foxlit]] ([[User talk:Starlightblunder|talk]]) 21:25, 11 November 2010 (UTC) |
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| − | :I think it would be a good idea to consider the comments made in [[Forum:Abuse of Template:Npc on links]] before proceeding with this idea. [[User:Ddcorkum|Ddcorkum]] ([[User talk:Ddcorkum|talk]]) 19:10, 11 November 2010 (UTC) |
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| − | :: The two topics are orthogonal -- it is already possible to misuse our current syntax, and it is equally possible to get desired formatting using the proposed syntax. I do not think it makes sense to conflate enforcement of currently non-existent style ''guidelines'' and automatic link style functionality in general. — [[User:Foxlit|foxlit]] ([[User talk:Starlightblunder|talk]]) 20:13, 11 November 2010 (UTC) |
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| + | == Guild rules == |
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| − | :::This would become the worst mess ever if applied. Just imagine those long paragraphs of 100% lore full of useless npclinks. |
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| − | :::I'm sorry, but no.--[[User:Lon-ami|Lon-ami]] ([[User talk:Lon-ami|talk]]) 20:34, 15 November 2010 (UTC) |
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| − | ::::Do you have any specific examples that we couldn't easily fix? --<span style="border-bottom: 1px dotted;cursor:help;" title="Wowpedia bureaucrat">[[User:Kaydeethree|k]]_[[User_talk:Kaydeethree|d]]<sup>[[Special:Contributions/Kaydeethree|3]]</sup></span> 20:49, 15 November 2010 (UTC) |
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| − | ::Foxlit: the difference between how it is now and with automatic link formatting is that we can now choose where and how we want to make the formatting. With the automatic link formatting you're making this '''by default''', which is against any kind of readability. Do we ''really'' want for example normal item links to get formatted into colored links with brackets? That's not at all what I'd like to see. |
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| − | ::kd3: There's no reason to "fix" it if there's no change in the first place. --{{User:Gourra/Sig2}} 09:38, 16 November 2010 (UTC) |
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| − | :::I believe me and g0urra have worked through most on this on IRC; among other things, I really do imagine that every time I type out <nowiki>[[Nordrassil Wrath-Kilt]]</nowiki> in article text, I really mean {{item|Nordrassil Wrath-Kilt}}. — [[User:Foxlit|foxlit]] ([[User talk:Starlightblunder|talk]]) 22:28, 18 November 2010 (UTC) |
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| − | I'd like to thank everyone for the feedback on this. As well as some support, I see a some concerns expressed here: "this stretches internal linking syntax," which I believe is dealt with appropriately by observing that the linking syntax is already used for a wide variety of things, and that the proposed change still fits within the linking semantics; and "this may interfere with existing content," which is a concern that I share. I've outlined several options for dealing with the latter, and, ultimately, believe that those issues will be relatively minor, and resolvable on an individual page basis. However, the lack of responses listing any concrete pages on which this would pose a problem shows that it is difficult to predict what the effects on the actual content would be, so we probably can't get anything useful out of continuing that discussion. |
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| + | *This is a PvP guild and Raids pretty seriously. We don't care that you know the PvE content; PvP is a must. |
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| − | Where do we go from here? I'm planning on deploying the extension when I am confident that it works correctly; by itself, the extension would not change the appearance of ''any'' links on the wiki. Following that, we can gradually add link formatting to different classes of pages, watching closely for any problems that this may cause and dealing with them as they arise. There are classes of pages for which I think that this would be easy -- for instance, virtually nothing links to quest pages directly (without using a template or piped link syntax), so modifying how the default links to those appear should not pose a problem. In other cases, like NPCs or monsters, this may prove too drastic a change to deal with -- and I'll be happy to leave those well enough alone if this is the case. |
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| + | == Officers == |
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| − | The end goal here is to improve the usability -- the current situation, where the majority of incoming links to some pages use formatting templates, isn't optimal -- you really shouldn't have to remember <nowiki>{{questlong}}</nowiki> syntax to produce a formatted link to a quest page, or resort to onlyinclude-hackery to make formatted linking to achievement pages work. — [[User:Foxlit|foxlit]] ([[User talk:Starlightblunder|talk]]) 22:28, 18 November 2010 (UTC) |
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| − | :[[WP:BOLD]]. I like it. --[[Image:gengar orange 22x22.png]] [[User:Fandyllic|Fandyllic]] <small>([[User talk:Fandyllic|talk]] · [[Special:Contributions/Fandyllic|contribs]])</small> 4:24 PM PST 18 Nov 2010 |
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| − | ::I assume that anything done will be reversible? If so, I support implementing it on a incremental basis... maybe with quests first. Once we understand the challenges with that, we'll be better prepared for a more complex implementation. If it isn't reversible, then I would like to see some form of sandbox testing before going into dangerous territory. I think you have an idea with great potential, but lets approach it cautiously. [[User:Ddcorkum|D.D. Corkum]] ([[User_talk:Ddcorkum|T]] / [[Special:Contributions/Ddcorkum|C]]) 01:00, 21 November 2010 (UTC) |
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| + | ; Lothy, ''Guildmaster'' |
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| − | == Current status == |
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| − | This is currently enabled for quest pages: |
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| − | {| class="darktable" |
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| − | | <nowiki>[[Quest:Prophecies Of Doom]]</nowiki> || [[Quest:Prophecies Of Doom]] |
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| − | |- |
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| − | | style="padding-right: 1em"| <nowiki>[[Quest:Prophecies Of Doom (Alliance)]]</nowiki> || [[Quest:Prophecies Of Doom (Alliance)]] |
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| − | |- |
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| − | | <nowiki>[[Quest:Prophecies Of Doom (Horde)]]</nowiki> || [[Quest:Prophecies Of Doom (Horde)]] |
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| − | |- |
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| − | | <nowiki>[[Quest:In Dreams]]</nowiki> || [[Quest:In Dreams]] |
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| − | |} |
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| − | ; How does it work? : The quest infobox uses the <code><nowiki>{{DEFAULTLINK:...}}</nowiki></code> parser function to configure formatting for incoming links. Custom link formatting is enabled only for pages in the main namespace; the function argument must contain a link to the article. |
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| − | ; How do I stop it from affecting a specific link/section/page? : For a single link, provide a caption (<nowiki>[[Link|caption]]</nowiki>), or prefix the destination with a colon (<nowiki>[[:Link]]</nowiki>). |
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| − | : For a block of links, use the <nowiki><nodefaultlinks>...</nodefaultlinks></nowiki> tag. |
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| − | : For all links on a specific page, use the <nowiki>__NODEFAULTLINKS__</nowiki> magic word. |
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| − | The usual call for thoughts and problem reports applies. — [[User:Foxlit|foxlit]] ([[User talk:Starlightblunder|talk]]) 21:36, 23 November 2010 (UTC) |
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| + | ; Bonkie, ''Officer'' |
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| − | :Appears to be working randomly... one pages have it activated and others not, no matter you make editions or not.--[[User:Lon-ami|Lon-ami]] ([[User talk:Lon-ami|talk]]) 13:07, 24 November 2010 (UTC) |
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| + | |||
| − | ::Links to pages where it does not work would be helpful in determining why that is. — [[User:Foxlit|foxlit]] ([[User talk:Starlightblunder|talk]]) 13:29, 24 November 2010 (UTC) |
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| + | ; Iridescence (Luminescence), ''Officer'' |
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| + | |||
| + | ; Fatlas, ''Officer'' |
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| + | |||
| + | ; Kaotikdt, ''Officer'' |
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| + | |||
| + | ; Redblaze, ''Raid Leader'' |
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| + | |||
| + | ; Jared, ''Scarab Lord'' |
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Revision as of 14:00, 24 November 2010
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This article is a guild information page. The contents herein are entirely player made and in no way represent official World of Warcraft history or occurrences which are accurate for all realms. The characters and events listed are of an independent nature and applied for roleplaying, fictional, speculative, or opinions from a limited playerbase only. Guild pages must comply with the personal article policy. Page last modified: 2010-11-24 |
Template:Guildbox
Templar Knights recently moved from Mug'thol to Mannoroth. We are better than you.
Guild progress
- We are done raiding in WotLK and will resume with 25man raids in Cataclysm.
History
This guild was originaly formed on Mug'thol and was a top Raiding Guild in that realm until we switched to Mannoroth after the entire Alliance Faction on that realm did Faction Switched to Horde. That bloody realm is now 90/10 horde to Alliance.
Weekly raid schedule
- Tuesday, 9:00 PM Server - TBA
- Wednesday, 9:00 PM Server - TBA
- Thursday, 9:00 PM Server - TBA
Guild rules
- This is a PvP guild and Raids pretty seriously. We don't care that you know the PvE content; PvP is a must.
Officers
- Lothy, Guildmaster
- Bonkie, Officer
- Iridescence (Luminescence), Officer
- Fatlas, Officer
- Kaotikdt, Officer
- Redblaze, Raid Leader
- Jared, Scarab Lord