Forum:The Timeless One or The Dragon Queen

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Nozdormu The Timeless One

• When the Titans first descended on Azeroth, vanquishing the Old Gods and bringing order to the world, the Highfather of the Pantheon himself empowered the great dragon Nozdormu with some of his own cosmic powers, enabling the dragon to guard time itself and police the ever-spinning pathways of fate and destiny. And so, the stoic, honorable Nozdormu became known as the Timeless One.

"Even Deathwing will pass into time... even he will eventually be part... of my collection..."

• Norzdomu has both a power and a curse: he knows when and how he will die. Until that time comes, he cannot perish.

• Nozdormu is difficult to defeat because of his ability to look into the corridors of time and repeat events if they do not progress as he feels they should. He is extremely wise and uses his insight to determine the best course of action before proceeding. Should this fail, he simply tries again as necessary, or uses his power to avoid the encounter entirely.

Alexstraza The Dragon Queen

• Is the guardian of all life in the world of Azeroth. She was also appointed as queen of all dragons by the titans.

• Helped create Nordrassil, the World Tree

• Alexstrasza is supremely confident in her strength and righteousness

• Due to her supreme wisdom and limitless compassion for all living things, Alexstrasza was crowned the Dragonqueen and given dominion over her kind.

• Alexstrasza is easily the most powerful individual on Azeroth. She's a huge red dragon who could just as easily crush an army as cunningly manipulate its leaders to her own ends. She has a brilliant intellect and delights in toying with the lesser creatures who cross her path

• Alexstraza has the most health of all NPCs in the game, with 139,450,000 hp in her dragon form.

Voice your Opinion

With the information provided, or other known information that is not provided, who do you think is more powerful the Dragon Queen or The Timeless One?

The Timeless One gets my vote, time is more lasting then life, even with no life there is time, Yogg-Saron says "Only Death Is Eternal" But Death is nothing compared to the power of time. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by The Timeless One (talk · contr).

However, he always forgets to sign his posts. Anyway, Alex got my vote. ~ Nathanyel (talk) 08:58, 30 June 2009 (UTC)

I know its still speculation... but we all know Noz created the infinite dragonflight... whether he's in control of them or not is unknown. Being able to control events and time itself... Noz has my vote. Sssssssssssssssssssssssss For Pony! (^Sssss/_Slithered) 21:34, 30 June 2009 (UTC)

But Alexstraza is the Dragon Queen! For that title she gets my vote, plus shes hot! :P Max Krist (talk) 01:54, 1 July 2009 (UTC)

I'm sorry, but in a fight, Alexstrasza would lose. Just imagine thousands of Nozdormus attacking her from all the timelines and seconds of existence. She's powerful, yeah, more than Nozdormu, but Nozdormu has his own tricks.--Lon-ami (talk) 16:39, 2 July 2009 (UTC)

Paradox my friend, remember what happened with Krasus. He would share part of his power with his other one, Well, I think it's a Tie :P, Alexz is extremely powerful, but Nozdormu has the ability to "look into the corridors of time and repeat events if they do not progress as he feels they should." Pudim17 (talk - contr) 12:06, 3 July 2009 (UTC)

Nozdormu, definately. All he has to do is smack Alexstrasza into the more complicated parts of the Caverns of Time and BOOM! She's lost for eternity. Big, furry, and insane (Have a conversation with the homocidal furry!) (Come and stalk me! ...No, wait, please don't.) 13:04, 3 July 2009 (UTC)

Nozdormu for me also. Alexstrasza would be better to hang out with, but she was already defeated by Nekros with the Demon Soul. --Beware the sneaky smile! Fandyllic (talk · contr) 5:45 PM PST 9 Jul 2009

Well guess what would've happened if Nekros had encountered Nozdormu... ~ Nathanyel (talk) 09:58, 10 July 2009 (UTC)

Well, if I make my choice on what ifs, I would rather be Nozdormu than Alexstrasza. --Beware the sneaky smile! Fandyllic (talk · contr) 3:34 PM PST 10 Jul 2009

I'm pretty sure the Demon Soul is a weapon against ALL dragons... I mean it did pretty much destroy the entire Blue dragon flight in one move, i think it would have handled Nozdormu... Also, it's hilarious that while everyone is saying Nozdormu, they are all clearly voting for the wondrous queen Alexstasza! :D Max Krist (talk) 11:01, 11 July 2009 (UTC)

Like Pudim17 said, the Nozdormus would just end up splitting their power between themselves if there were a number of them attacking her. Unless many weak Nozdormus are better than one strong Nozdormu? Also, if there were many Nozdormus they would not all be thinking the same thing of attacking her as some of them may be from "timeframes" where they would never want to hurt her. It would have to be just one Nozdormu versus her. So if the question is who is more powerful then I would pick Nozdormu slightly only because he can confuse her with some kind of time spell or manueveur like Toran said. In terms of winning a battle, I would pick her slightly because she has the power of life, and although Nozdormu has the power of time, he said he knows the time he will die already and she can just wait until that time, if she lives longer, and then when he dies say "I win". Also, being able to "look into the corridors of time and repeat events if they do not progress as he feels they should." doesn't always work as you can see in WoW since players are thwarting the infinite dragonflight everywhere they try to change events in time. Rolandius (talk - contr) 02:38, 12 July 2009 (UTC)

Players are only thwarting the Infinite Dragonflight where Nozdormu gives them opportunities. Also, ALexstrasza can only wait until Nozdormu dies if Alexstrasza happens to die after him. I see no logic behind multiple Nozdormus having reduced power in each instance. Also the many instances would know what the other was planning, because Nozdormu is careful and would probably not even engage in a battle unless the conditions were favorable. Also, having the power to observe the possibilities, Nozdormu might even be able to pick the timeline where he wins.

Like I said, I'd rather hang out with Alextsrasza, but Nozdormu's power over time trumps Alextrasza's power over life. In time, life runs out, but in life you're always running out of time. --Beware the sneaky smile! Fandyllic (talk · contr) 6:36 PM PST 13 Jul 2009

I am not too sure about the reduced power thing now. In the novels for War of the Ancients, it shows that power is divided by the number of individuals in that timeframe. For instance, when Krasus "lands" in the past he says something is wrong because he feels less powerful and you find out later that Korialstraz had also became weakened back at his home at the same moment and seemed to be ill. When Krasus later meets his past self as Korialstraz, they both start feeling normal and not ill. So I guess multiple Nozdormus would have an advantage over Alexstrasza as long as they do not get too far away from each other. They have to stay in close range to each other or else their power will diminish quickly. Rolandius (talk - contr) 02:28, 14 July 2009 (UTC)

Splitting himself will just be a bad move, Alextraza could propably somewhat easy take one out if Nozdormus' powers divided in like 5, and no matgter what, i dont think that the death of another self would be without harm...
Too, with the power of life, Alextraza would probably be able to use some powerful attacks... + remember the pain attack she used against deathwing...
And Nozdormu probably couldnt travel back in time in open fight... —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Magnive (talk · contr).

All the weaknesses you're applying to Nozdormu are assumptions with very little lore basis. The real question is how Nozdormu decides what is a threat to the timeline(s). Theoretically, Nozdormu isn't supposed to use his powers for personal gain or arbitrary purposes, but that didn't seem to stop Neltharion or Malygos. --Beware the sneaky smile! Fandyllic (talk · contr) 1:43 PM PST 12 Aug 2009

The Dragon Queen has my vote, 1st shes sexy ^^, and second she cares for all living beings, The Timeless One can threaten you as much as he can with "Go into the past and make sure you were never born" WRONG you douche have this power but you're forbidden to use it for you personal wishes, you can only you use it too fix the timeline back to watt it was not alter it, so he's just an ordinary ... big... dragon nothing else.—The preceding unsigned comment was added by DarckArchon (talk · contr).

In my honest opinion, Alexstrasza's power is really cracked up to be more than it really is. She couldn't even cure the Plague of Undeath. For the guardian of all life, that's sad. Nozdormu has always been able to fix anything wrong with time. And that would take a lot more power than some red dragon who sits around while her young consort goes out to fix all her issues while she just lays eggs all day.

I think, truly, all the other Aspects hold more power than Alexstrasza. Tyranastrasz was older, and larger if memory serves me right, which makes me wonder why he wasn't made the Dragonking. If Deathwing and Alexstrasza were to fight one-on-one, there's no doubt in my mind he'd win. She couldn't even subdue Malygos single-handedly. If she were truly as powerful as she's made out to be, she could match Malygos' dragon defenders with her own, especially since Blues are in smaller numbers than Reds.

So while the lesser dragons are fighting, those two could go at each other... and she'd more than likely lose. Nozdormu never really requests help, and in WotA, Rhonin and Krasus were unneeded. The time flux thing of them needing to be sent back to help... was useless. The Old Gods messed with time, but Krasus and Rhonin never actually faced them. The War would've ended as it normally would've and Nozdormu would've solved the time issue on his own.

The Timeless One would also be older than Alexstrasza in a sense. He's been here; been then; been ahead; all at once. Alexstrasza sits in the middle of the safety of her own flight while they die in her name. Alex is useless.

And no one ever knows where Nozdormu is. He also has no reason to fight her. So if there were a fight, she'd be the cause of it. And she'd have to go to him. I'm pretty certain that in the Caverns of Time, multiple Nozdormu's would be as powerful as one in each.

So she wouldn't face many weakened Nozdormu's, she'd fight many fully powered ones. Multiple beings of the same life only are weaker if in the same time. The Caverns of Time is a pocket universe where time ceases. Several of him entering it to face her wouldn't be weakened since they aren't in time. So yeah, she'd lose.

Her power over life is very limited. His power over time would be limitless. He would win, hands down. The only reason anyone would vote for Alex is due to popularity. Not actual consideration of power.

Mykael Mourningsun (talk) 06:17, 1 September 2009 (UTC)

Well put. Though I do see Nozdormu being part of fight in the future... after all... he is the one revealed to have created the Infinite dragonflight.... Time will tell, (Sorry I couldn't resist saying that). Sssssssssssssssssssssssss For Pony! (^Sssss/_Slithered) 06:24, 1 September 2009 (UTC)

Hands down? Popularity? Thats utterly laughable. Nozdormu is ultimetly a mortal creature, living, not time itself. Alexstrasza has control over life. In all honesty they both have trump cards over each other so i think the premise of this whole poll is flawed. But i'll vote for Alexstrasza simply because she was appointed dragon queen and so in an educated guess i would have to say she has a little more pull with other dragons, more political power, which might not be what this poll is asking for but in case of a tie i'd use it as a tie breaker.

Edit: I'm going with the tie option now.Warthok Talk Contribs 23:59, September 1, 2009 (UTC)

Nozdormu isn't a mortal being. He's immortal. He may not be an Eternal, but he's much more powerful than anyone can comprehend. Even Alexstrasza couldn't fathom his power. Alexstrasza doesn't have complete control over life, it's obvious when she can't even stave off Death from Crusader Bridenbrad. The Naaru saved him, which would imply they have power equal to her own. If not more. Mykael Mourningsun (talk) 07:17, November 2, 2009 (UTC)

So is Alexstrasza. As for his power, I see no evidence of this, just your own opinion of what his control over time entails, and i've studied every source dealing with the dragonflights and aspects pretty extensively (with a fine tooth comb even). Nozdormu is as limited as Alexstrasza. Otherwise why wouldn't he stop his own death? Undo Deathwing's betrayal? His madness? And don't say because he chooses not to, we don't know enough details about the situation to make assumptions such as that. Power can be measured in many ways, and theres many other ways in which it can't be measured, thats the ultimate problem with this poll. But if were just talking about the raw energy fed to them by the titans, i see no reason to believe they weren't equal or similar amounts. Other than that i'd say the poll is ultimetly flawed since all other answers would be completley dependant upon personal perspective and have absoultely zero quantatative or measurable results upon which to make a judgement.Warthok Talk Contribs 08:16, November 2, 2009 (UTC)

Well the poll is based on who we THINK is better. Which would imply that we're to use personal perspective. We throw out our ideas, total them up, and then reply more based on all that's been said. And him not choosing to do something is just it, he does choose not to. Why doesn't he let his flight allow the Infinites to change everything? After all, they stated what would occur if they succeeded. The Black Morass, for example, if they prevailed there, there'd be no wars or anything between the Horde and Alliance. But it was because of what did happen that the Bronze flight decided to act. If Nozdormu prevented Neltharion's decent into madness, what would happen? Would it be better or worse? Perhaps that's why he chose not to act then. And his own death was shown to him by his maker. Someone who has greater control over time than himself. And he of all people would realize that everything has an end, even time. And don't say he does lead the Infinite flight. We don't know that for sure yet. And not much truly points at him leading it. The simple fact is, Nozdormu has shown more control over his power than Alexstrasza has shown over hers. She couldn't ward of the plague, yet Nozdormu has kept everything in place. Controlling time, and all the life that's along its strands is greater than her saving maybe a few lives every so often when she can. How often do we even see Alexstrasza utilize life-based abilities? Hardly ever, because she decides to sleep around and lay eggs. Having kids may be a sign of giving life, but Onyxia does just the same. Mykael Mourningsun (talk) 05:21, November 23, 2009 (UTC)

No lets be clear. Nozdormu has not displayed a greater control of his power than Alexstrasza. Nozdormus particular power's nature allows users to speculate more freely about how much he might be doing that we don't (and will never see). But i can go to each of those points and just as validly claim Nozdormu has not interfered and/or is unable to interfere. For the time being it's simply speculation.Warthok Talk Contribs 06:03, November 23, 2009 (UTC)

Not much points to him? How about the fact the quest Mystery of the Infinite is supposed to reveal its leader... and Nozdormu appears. Sssssssssssssssssssssssss For Pony! (^Sssss/_Slithered) 06:49, November 23, 2009 (UTC)

I think Nozdormu is definetely stronger. In the first book of Warcraft, Krasus asks Nozdormu for help to defeat Deathwing and free Alexstrasza. Krasus thinks in one of the sentances 'I better go now, with one grain of sand he can remove me from existance'. Which means Nozdormu can also remove Alexstrasza with one Grain of Sand, so that Alexstrasza is never born.. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Krakex (talk · contr).

Reset

O.o Why was 2 months worth of votes just removed? Max Krist (talk) 12:56, September 2, 2009 (UTC)

Ugh, Farseer-Lolotea added another option to the poll and it reset. --Beware the sneaky smile! Fandyllic (talk · contr) 11:48 PM PST 2 Sep 2009

/sigh... we need a way to prevent things like that... Sssssssssssssssssssssssss For Pony! (^Sssss/_Slithered) 04:51, September 3, 2009 (UTC)

Sorry. >_< Didn't know it would do that; it seems like there are usually safeguards against that kind of thing.
Farseer Lolotea • talk • contrib 05:53, September 3, 2009 (UTC)