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Forums: Index World of Warcraft The next WoW expansion

The big question: where will the next World of Warcraft expansion take place? Certainly interest seems to be increasing, and some members of the Warcraft community may already know what it is! (No, I don't, before you ask :) My thoughts are definitely centred about the Emerald Dream and the Great Sea at the moment, but I would love to see some more use of the old world via phasing. Kirkburn  talk  contr 16:04, 7 May 2009 (UTC)

I bet we'll find out at BlizzCon...I'm leaning towards the Maelstrom/Undermine at the moment...--PcjWoWWiki admin (TDrop me a line!C62,301 contributions and counting) 16:06, 7 May 2009 (UTC)
I would think about the Great Sea, but I won't. I will, instead, focus on the Emmerald Dream. One of the reasons is the upcoming novel, Stormrage. The other one that Great Sea will be cooler with some characters that come from the ED.
But, hell. Blizzard could even mix the 2 themes into a lone expansion. Who knows.
Here you have my plot for the Great Sea expansion, anyway:
User:Lon-ami/New_Expansion_Ideas
(I'm editing it to include more stuff, about a possible return of the Illidari)
--Lon-ami (talk) 17:31, 7 May 2009 (UTC)
At the moment my bet would be on the Great Sea, but only because that's the one with the most existing lore. There are a number of named islands, their sizes and positions, and even some of the cities on them. In contrast we know almost nothing of the Emerald Dream. Any ideas on that would have to start from scratch, so it would take a long time before an Emerald Dream expansion could be ready. Jormungand IconSmall Rogue talk · contribs 19:14, 7 May 2009 (UTC)
It would be positively lovely to have the Great Sea... but it's just too big. And very segmented into islands. So Blizzard would look to somewhere more solid. The Emerald Dream is going to be the new expansion pack. --IconSmall ArcaneGolemMantriox/T/C 21:05, 7 May 2009 (UTC)

Whatever the next expansion is, it is likely that Gilneas will play a part in it, based on what Metzen said when interviewed. Inv misc orb 04Xavius, the Satyr Lord 07:35, 8 May 2009 (UTC)

I have a strong suspicion you are right about Gilneas, though I wonder if it's coming even sooner (given some odd hints on the official forums a week or so ago). Kirkburn  talk  contr 12:07, 8 May 2009 (UTC)
Odd hints? Can you link the relevant posts/threads, please? Inv misc orb 04Xavius, the Satyr Lord 21:50, 8 May 2009 (UTC)
Looking, but not finding at the moment - there were just a few mentions of it a while back for no apparent reason. For example, see Wryxian's signature on [1]. Kirkburn  talk  contr 11:17, 9 May 2009 (UTC)
Awesome, what is that thing? looks like a new companion... Max Krist (talk) 11:42, 9 May 2009 (UTC)
Wryxian's signature is the flavor text from [Genn's Copper Coin]. Wryxian's avatar can be got as a companion as a rare drop from [Bag of Fishing Treasures (Terokkar Forest)] (reward for level 70 daily fishing quests): [Chuck's Bucket], [Muckbreath's Bucket], [Snarly's Bucket], or [Toothy's Bucket]. I was really lucky and got one in my first bag on my lazy druid. --Gengar orange 22x22Beware the sneaky smile! Fandyllic (talk · contr) 4:52 PM PST 11 May 2009
lol guess that solves the mystery then, or answers my ignorance... :P Max Krist (talk) 00:25, 13 May 2009 (UTC)

I believe it will be the Emerald Dream, as they've left Malfurion in limbo there for far too long. Plus I think Blizz will want another excuse to play around with some "exotic" fantasy again like they did with BC, the sea can wait... Max Krist (talk) 08:31, 9 May 2009 (UTC)

What about Elemental Plain, that would be exotic -IconSmall Dwarf MaleUi-charactercreate-classes paladinTalk Contribs 20:48, 10 May 2009 (UTC)

The Elemental Plane is also a possiblity, although the Dream and the Sea seem more likely as of now. Inv misc orb 04Xavius, the Satyr Lord 06:29, 11 May 2009 (UTC)
The Elemental Plane has thus far mostly been restricted to the RPG books, which makes it a bit unfamiliar for most players. It would allow a huge amount of variety and novel worlds, but I think it could be 'too' exotic for WoW, given how they said after TBC they wanted to return to a more normal, grounded world to explore. Kirkburn  talk  contr 18:29, 11 May 2009 (UTC)
Totaly agree with Kirkburn, i don't know enough about the elemental plane to want to go thier yet, it just holds no attraction for me. Seeing the wonders of the Emerald Dream and discvering the fates of Ysera and Malfurion? Very intriguing. Of course the Great Sea has awesome potential too, but i have a feeling when it does happen it's gonna be pretty apocolyptic, Naga, Murlocs, attacking the trolls and other elemental lords? sounds like Neptulon (if he is the real one responsible) has a pretty well thought out plan which will be hard to stop... Also when Queen Azshara returns? i doubt we will ever have seen someone as strong and angry as her! :P Max Krist (talk) 21:54, 11 May 2009 (UTC)
Considering Azshara is an extremely old and extremely powerful sorcerer, most stuff with the great sea would be extremely dangerous, and all monsters would have to be extremely powerful. Seeing as a lot of very powerful and very dangerous artifacts and monsters reside beneath the sea, I ,as well, see it as an intriguing possibility. -IconSmall Dwarf MaleUi-charactercreate-classes paladinTalk Contribs 01:22, 12 May 2009 (UTC)
And yet another Old God :) Kirkburn  talk  contr 17:32, 12 May 2009 (UTC)
Concerning coverage of the elemental plane; well, we do have Ragnaros and the Molten Core, the Hydraxian Waterlords, Princess Theradras, the Elemental Invasions, Lord Ahune and the Fire Festival... So I'd say it's at least as covered as the Dream in-game, but not as likely, though. Inv misc orb 04Xavius, the Satyr Lord 17:44, 12 May 2009 (UTC)

The introduction of mounts being able to swim, along with aquatic mounts leads me to believe the Maelstrom is likely in the next expansion. We've had far too long of a break from killing scores of Naga. — Exquisite (talk) 01:03, 10 June 2009 (UTC)

If the Great Sea will be the next expansion, I wish it can be hybrid, and not only under-sea stuff, the islands are REALLY important to not make the game boring
Well, the modification on player's breath time maybe also a tip, now we can go 3 times deeper than before. Pudim17 (talk - contr)
They would have to add more than air fissures too... like giant (but not too big where if you entered at the top you'd die by falling) air bubbles that players could rest, eat, drink in.... possibly add flippers for increased underwater speed =P User:Coobra/Sig4 21:31, 16 June 2009 (UTC)
Why not a series of island zones divided by some invisable wall or fatigue mechanic?--SWM2448 22:26, 16 June 2009 (UTC)
Yeah, that's what I was talking about, only under-sea content would change the whole gameplay, there MUST have Over sea-level content, and we have a lot of islands on the lore. :D Pudim17 (talk - contr) 13:36, 17 June 2009 (UTC)
Well I would think Undermine would appear as the neutral city and therefor the island of Kezan making an appearance. Given that theres many islands around the area, they don't have to just stick with those either. New islands can be "discovered" such as the Azuremyst and Bloodmyst Isles. User:Coobra/Sig4 19:43, 17 June 2009 (UTC)
Undermine? O, c'mon, guys, why do you all believe Undermine's going to be the capital of the south seas?
Zandalar is way better. Also, it's a sanctuary city, and no one wants more troll instances.
--Lon-ami (talk) 10:52, 18 June 2009 (UTC)
lol i have to concur, despite that it is more likely to be Undermine, i'm sick to death of hearing about it... :P Max Krist (talk) 11:20, 18 June 2009 (UTC)
Yeah, I don't like the idea of Undermine being a sanctuary. I BET Pandaren will be a new alliance class and therefore I hope goblins be the next horde one, but I also think Zandalar can't be the sanctuary cuz the alliance HATES trolls, although Yojamba Isle is friendly to both factions. Pudim17 (talk - contr) 13:06, 18 June 2009 (UTC)
Zandalar trolls are neutral. Leave them as they are and don't transform them into raid bosses, for god's sake. And, well, hate doesn't mean anything. If you don't believe me, then explain why elves and trolls are in a same faction.--Lon-ami (talk) 15:50, 18 June 2009 (UTC)
They are in the same faction due to necessity. It is my personal theory that Zuldazar will be a neutral town like Netherwing Ledge where after a short quest chain we all get troll disguises. I want to see destroyers near the city. Also, everyone is entitled to their own opinion, and in this kind of speculation nothing 'is'.--SWM2448 17:09, 18 June 2009 (UTC)
Lon-ami, I'm not sure how saying Undermine being a neutral city would automatically make the Zandalar a raid/instance... Nor would it automatically make Undermine a sanctuary... (though its more likely). Neutral city ≠ Sanctuary. User:Coobra/Sig4 01:52, 20 June 2009 (UTC)
I think it fits better for a capital because it being a place of peace and a great sanctuary for all the troll races. I wouldn't feel ok if they make Undermine the neutral capital and leave Zuldazar as a town.
Anyway, I don't see some cartels allowing strangers into their city. Zandalar trolls are way more neutral than goblins.--Lon-ami (talk) 12:13, 22 June 2009 (UTC)
No ones mentioned this, but if you notice if you zoom the world map all the way out so it shows both Azeroth and Outland, Azeroth appears globe like yet you can see both Kalimdor and Eastern Kingdoms on it. That means there must be a whole other hemisphere to expand into, no? Paladinofcancer (talk) 16:04, 26 July 2009 (UTC)

New Capitals Edit

Do you guys think, trolls and gnomes will have their own capital someday? Well, there is a lot of space in the sea east from Sen'jin Village :P and we can have Upper Gnomeragan, gnomes are tinkers, they have the potential to make another big city on that blank space valley over gnomeragan. Pudim17 (talk - contr) 19:59, 25 June 2009 (UTC)

Nope. I think they'll integrate even further into their current residences: Orgrimmar and Ironforge :P.--Lon-ami (talk) 20:16, 25 June 2009 (UTC)
With their phase technology they could do anything they want... that being said... I doubt they do anything for the those 2 places. User:Coobra/Sig4 00:05, 26 June 2009 (UTC)
Gnomes i don't know. Methinks there might eventually be a "final clearing of Gnomeragan" quest that integrates heavy-scale phasing, and if blizzard makes a Maelstrom/Great Sea based expansion, the troll's own capital city on some island somewhere is somewhat likely. Trolls FTW btw. Rachak (talk) 21:04, 25 July 2009 (UTC)
The trolls' island sunk.--SWM2448 01:28, 26 July 2009 (UTC)
Aww. no island for us Trolls. But there's still other islands.Rachak (talk) 01:51, 26 July 2009 (UTC)
Trolls are not really much for cities. Gnomes are too few in number. BobNamataki (talk) 00:25, November 23, 2009 (UTC)
Trolls are not really much for cities? They have Zul'Gurub, Zul'Aman, Zul'Farrak, the entire zone of Zul'Drak, Zuldazar, and maybe Jintha'Alor and other towns. That is a lot of cities.--SWM2448 01:20, November 23, 2009 (UTC)
Hardly any of those are called cities. BobNamataki (talk) 17:29, November 23, 2009 (UTC)
Then what do you think they are?--SWM2448 23:43, November 23, 2009 (UTC)

Maelstrom Edit

For what it is worth (and for those who still did not read it) Random ramblings: Maelstrom the next expansion?

The Test Server tab was active on realm selection. It contained a server named "Maelstrom 3 Test". Many players noticed it and a thread has started on the official WoW forums, but the thread was quickly deleted by the "Men in Blue".

So, is Bli² hidding something greater that the Coliseum? ^^

IconSmall Hamuul Loremaster A'noob, Arch Druid of the Noobhoof Clan (talk/contribz) 20:31, 27 June 2009 (UTC)

So... Permission to get my hopes up? :D Max Krist (talk) 12:45, 28 June 2009 (UTC)

There is also this: Blizzard trademarks "Cataclysm" ... Kirkburn  talk  contr 18:43, 2 July 2009 (UTC)

About that "famous" list of expansion, that was pure fanfic right? Cuz I don't believe Worgen will ever be playable, and part of the horde... Pudim17 (talk - contr) 18:33, 3 July 2009 (UTC)
Anyone could have wondered that list. TBC was already announced, and most of all the other zones are present at the RPG. So no, I don't believe it's real.--Lon-ami (talk) 10:18, 7 July 2009 (UTC)

Antagonists Edit

Queen Azshara anyone? She's in the lore, and naga have been out of the mainframe for far too long. Put her in a patch pre-expansion release. Maybe at the end of her fight, a possible lead to.. dare i say it? Sargeras. Bam. Next expansion, "Sargeras Kingdom."Seight (talk) 10:01, 7 July 2009 (UTC)

Not Sargeras, but Avatar of Sargeras could be a good possibility. During Illidan's trip for the Eye of Sargeras, Vashj finds the corpse and tells Azshara. They recover it and resurrect it.
Actually, Neptulon could be a good boss, bu he's still imprisoned in the Elemental Plane.
Something should happen for him to be freed. Remember Ragnaros: his summoning destroyed a big part of the Redridge Mountains, creating Burning Steppes and Searing Gorge around its epicenter: Blackrock Mountain.
What if… the cataclysm is that, someone, somehow, breaks the prison of the elemental lieutenants? We could travel there. The Elemental Plane could end up being just a big zone, where elementals wage for war.
I imagine Neptulon and Al’Akir working together to create a giga-storm or something like that, and Therazane remaining at the Elemental Plane to keep us entertained. Ragnaros could make a small appearance, too, weakened by his defeat at Molten Core.
Then, they could try to free an Old God, one near Stranglethorn, and succeed. After that, we would defeat them and Azshara would start her Sargeras operation, and work as the final boss, with a lot of demons.
This would indeed make Azshara the final boss, having "betrayed" the Old Gods by summoning armies of demons once again. With the aid of the reborn avatar of Sargeras, that would be more than possible: just remember Aegwynn and the Dragon Hunt.
And, while I don't like it, would bring the perfect excuse for raising Nazjatar from the sea floor, since, well, demons don't breathe underwater.
Also, I don’t consider this a boss, but Obrahiim, the Traveler, a scourge architect, creator of Naxxramas, got lost after going to research the ruins of Zin-Azshari.
He would be the perfect leader for a force of undead around the South Seas, or just the Broken Isles. You know what would be awesome?
A new necropolis, better than his best creation, Naxxramas, with naga (NE ruins) architecture. It would be just simply awesome.
He could gather an army pretty easily. Take his minions, with more than one powerful being between its ranks, watching over his research, and then add all the undead orcs of the second war.
Also, the Kvaldir would have the perfect excuse for being around the South Seas. Give them the leadership of their greatest leader, or just one great leader, and that’s all.
There you have: A new enemy force kicking our asses with its awesomeness.--Lon-ami (talk) 11:12, 7 July 2009 (UTC)
That's a pretty good idea, indeed, as Cataclysm means Deluge, and a colapse on the Maelstrom fits perfectly, but not Al'Akir and Neptulon together, only Neptulon, keep Al'Akir for a future expasion =D Pudim17 (talk - contr) 14:45, 7 July 2009 (UTC)
I didn't think of this until now, cataclysm could mean some kind of return of Deathwing. Black Dragonflight, Return of the Chromatic. Alexstrasza and the red dragons will assist in the fight against neltharion. Maybe reappearance of demon/dragon soul? Blizzard can make anything happen in the lore.
Also, maybe squeeze in a little tauren/ne revolution among certain groups as the earth mother/Elune has been revealed to be the elemental god of earth, Therazane. Possible old god interaction also. Old Gods = best lore. Seight (talk) 05:17, 8 July 2009 (UTC)
I think there have been too many "return of Deathwing" scenarios already in previous books and games. Also, the dragonflights have the whole Nexus War still going on. By the way, the elemental lieutenants were supposed to have been all imprisoned right? We know Ragnaros is present but that has been recent in the whole scheme of time. So how did Neptulon destroy the Gurubashi Empire as told in the Fall of Gurubashi? This question may be on a tangent, but I wonder what enemy in this quote "From his capital he prepared plans of war, an invasion on unknown enemy." the Gurubashi Empire was going to engage before they were destroyed? Rolandius Paladin (talk - contr) 07:15, 22 July 2009 (UTC)
I think that if its South Seas Based, then Murlocs, Makura, and Naga would be the most likely antagonists, along with PO'ed Elementals and any other monstrosities that the Maelstrom created. Maybe interaction with more Loa/island trolls, and crazy goblins. Rachak (talk) 21:13, 25 July 2009 (UTC)
My vote is for Azshara, Neptulon, and perhaps an Old God. Though, while Lands of Mystery may be thought of as a preview, the whole Ulduar subplot was unknown until WotLK, who knows?--SWM2448 01:28, 26 July 2009 (UTC)
I was just wondering. How will they make the Maelstrom big enough to make a good expansion? The Burning Crusade introduced Outland, while the Wrath of the Lich King introduced Northrend. Looking at the lore, I don't think anything comes close to the size of a continent like the other two expansions. It would seem that they would maybe have to include the whole South Seas. Even then, the biggest "area" would be Kezan. They would have to make each island a zone. Hiji, Tel Abim, etc. would be zones. The thing is that to travel you would have to island hop. The walking from zone to zone would not exist. I guess they could just make the expansion in the Maelstrom but they would have to expand on the 9 "locations" in the Maelstrom. I haven't even mentioned the fact that most if not all of the locations in the Maelstrom are underwater... Rolandius Paladin (talk - contr) 01:43, 26 July 2009 (UTC)
Shamans and Warlocks are going to be very popular... ;)Max Krist (talk) 01:53, 26 July 2009 (UTC)
Not enough of them. They could just implement some sort of device system that enables waterbreathing. Rachak (talk) 01:56, 26 July 2009 (UTC)
Or raise everything onto the surface of the water. That would be an event to see. Rolandius Paladin (talk - contr) 02:02, 26 July 2009 (UTC)
Well thats what Gul'dan originally did, wouldn't be that suprising to see... Max Krist (talk) 02:17, 26 July 2009 (UTC)
Yeah, but I think this would be a larger feat. I always thought Illidan was going to do this one day... Rolandius Paladin (talk - contr) 02:23, 26 July 2009 (UTC)
  • sigh* yeah, but SOMEONE had to kill him... >.< Max Krist (talk) 02:30, 26 July 2009 (UTC)
I didn't do it. LOL Rolandius Paladin (talk - contr) 03:39, 26 July 2009 (UTC)

New Playable Races Edit

I heard that someguy data mined a file from the next patch and found, Goblin halloween masks and Wolf-like Halloween masks. This could explain why the blizz employee stated that gilneas will play a big part, I believe it will be the starting area for worgen-esque people. And for goblins, they could say a group of mercenaries joined the horde, while Gilneas citizens broke free of the curse and joined alliance. Any comments?—The preceding unsigned comment was added by Seight (talk · contr). 06:06, July 20, 2009

No offense, but I'm always suspicious of statements that start with "I heard that someguy..." --Gengar orange 22x22Beware the sneaky smile! Fandyllic (talk · contr) 11:36 AM PST 21 Jul 2009
Ah, the distrustful Fandyllic,. A good move I myself would have made, too, but this time you could be wrong! click here and see by yourself.
They first added Worgen and Goblins, and later added the other masks, to try cover their leak. They failed, you only have to look the quality of the other masks -_-.--Lon-ami (talk) 18:40, 21 July 2009 (UTC)
looking good, i'm dieing to know what happened to Gilneas, and they could use Undermine and Kul'tiras as the entrances to the expansion area... can't wait! Max Krist (talk) 06:51, 22 July 2009 (UTC)
I think the most logical options are:
  • Naga for the Alliance, starting in Kul Tiras, capital city at Boralus.
  • Goblins for the Horde, starting in Kezan, capital city at Undermine.
  • New class, "tinker", a mix of tinker, alchemist and other chemical and mechanical related activities. Horde races: goblins and forsaken. Alliance races: naga and gnomes.
But, of course, logical isn't always Blizzard's decision, and this has a lot of "imo" inside, too.--Lon-ami (talk) 10:09, 22 July 2009 (UTC)
lol Naga is never gonna happen, how is a legless character going to wear pants and ride mounts, let alone jump? :P I like the idea of worgen and goblin more, the fact that they brought Argual back seems to be a good indicator that Blizz is not done with worgen lore... Max Krist (talk) 14:09, 22 July 2009 (UTC)
I highly doubt that Worgen are going to be introduced as a playable race. They're basically infected humans, aren't they? Goblins seem the most likely if yer talking in terms of the Cataclysm, and Naga will NEVER happen. I think that they might introduce a horde-aligned goblin faction, and an alliance-aligned goblin faction. Only problem is making sure the two goblin races don't talk to each other. Rachak (talk) 21:01, 25 July 2009 (UTC)
Talking about datamined info is taboo. There are two types of Worgen: One type summoned from another planet/dimension, that are naturally wolf-men as far as we know (found in Ashenvale and Duskwood), and one type which are were-wolves made from cursed humans (found in Silverpine Forest and Grizzly Hills). The (purely fan fiction, but perhaps right) Gilneas rumor deals with the latter.--SWM2448 01:28, 26 July 2009 (UTC)
Naga can't jump?
In WoW Comic #7 they jump. Also, snakes jump, or explain me how a cobra gets to your neck when it's shorter than the distance from your knee to the ground.
Naga can't wear equipment?
  • Legs: 2 possibilities:
    • 1: Cover the entire tail (current modelviewer).
    • 2: Cover half of the tail.
  • Feet:
    • 1: Cover parts of the tail with small belts (current modelviewer).
    • 2: Cover the middle-part of the tail with a belt: Example.
There you have, playable naga, working perfectly.--Lon-ami (talk) 11:12, 27 July 2009 (UTC)
>.> no... Oh, and you also ignored the mount issue. Max Krist (talk) 12:55, 27 July 2009 (UTC)
Why not <.<, also, mount problem solves with a new animation, with the tail crossed to a side.--Lon-ami (talk) 13:03, 27 July 2009 (UTC)
Because... Blizz cbf putting shoes on trolls, let alone doing so many cosmetic changes to armour just for one race... Also, the "jumping" your talking about is when a snake coils back in on itself and uses its muscles to launch its body, i really can't see Blizz doing such detailed animation for a race to jump, more likely they would just make the whole length of the tail remain stationary while the character rises into the air, like how they jump on "Worms" and that would be quite lame. lol a Naga trying to balance itself on a Hawkstrider... fail Max Krist (talk) 06:50, 28 July 2009 (UTC)
Where to start? Okay, naga probably would not be a race because of the whole legs issue. Also, I don't see how either the Horde or Alliance would allow them on their side unless something crazy happened like a naga saved Thrall or Varian from a stampede of elekk. The worgen and goblin sound good. They would have to explain the whole thing about how the goblins said they are not taking sides any longer and it is more profitable to be neutral. For the worgen, they could use the story in the RPG and WoW where some people were trying to create a potion or spell that could change the humans turned worgen so that they stayed as worgen in appearance, strength, etc. but became more "human" in their thinking and became allies to the Alliance. If Gilneas did become worgen-infested as some people think, that could be the site where they try the "cure" thus creating worgen who are allies of the Alliance. Rolandius Paladin (talk - contr) 07:12, 28 July 2009 (UTC)
I find it hard to believe you're that against the idea, when we already got blood elves in the Horde, yeah, the same people that hates orcs and trolls with passion.
Things change, and everything is possible.--Lon-ami (talk) 14:53, 28 July 2009 (UTC)
Also, I wrote an idea for Kul Tiras involving naga allying to the Alliance: User:Lon-ami/Kul Tiras. Something like that could serve to explain it, nope? (they help Kul Tiras humans and then they get their trust)--Lon-ami (talk) 14:55, 28 July 2009 (UTC)
That is what I was talking about. They would have to do something great to gain the trust of the Alliance if they were to be a new race for the Alliance. The thing is that there is still the whole issue about legs. Gear, equipment, etc. being shown on the naga. Another interesting thing is that, I think, all the races they have created for WoW have also been playable races in the RPG. If there are going to be two new races, maybe they will take them from the group of playable races in the RPG. Rolandius Paladin (talk - contr) 02:15, 29 July 2009 (UTC)
lol for the record, if you had seen my previous posts, I HATE the fact that the blood elves are in the Horde and desperatly await the day when Blizz makes them back into High Elves and returns them to the alliance, but that ain't gonna happen. Also, my problem is not the lore aspect (we all know how easy it is for Blizz to lolretcon classic lore) my problem is the technical aspect of changing so much just for one race to be playable, would involve alot of programing which they just cbf'd to do. Max Krist (talk) 04:01, 29 July 2009 (UTC)
Involve a lot of programming?
Heck, they're making new races, when making them new, it doesn't matter if you make one way or another. For legs and feet issues, read my post above. Even Vashj's model follows that equipment style.--Lon-ami (talk) 10:46, 29 July 2009 (UTC)

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