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I'm going to change the way this works by adding the dungeon wings as opposed to the name of the wider dungeon, as I think that is more useful for navigating through instances. As it is now, you can't access for example Serpentshrine Cavern directly through the nav bar, instead having to go via Coilfang and then access it from there, which I find quite clunky. Feel free to discuss it. --{{User:Varghedin/Sig}} 07:33, 10 August 2008 (UTC)
[[File:nightmare.jpg|thumb|The Dragons of Nightmare from Left to Right: Emeriss, Lethon, Ysondre, and Taerar. Ysera is in the middle.]]
 
The '''Dragons of Nightmare''' (a.k.a. the '''Emerald Dragons''' and the '''Four Dragons''') are [[Lethon]], [[Emeriss]], [[Ysondre]] and [[Taerar]]. These dragons are world spawns located in [[Duskwood]] ([[Twilight Grove]]), the [[Hinterlands]] ([[Seradane]]), [[Feralas]] ([[Dream Bough]]), and [[Ashenvale]] ([[Bough Shadow]]).
 
   
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==<nowiki><small></nowiki> vs <nowiki><tt></nowiki>==
==Background==
 
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I am just putting an exemple here:
[[File:Emeraldportal.jpg|thumb|right|Emerald Portal]]
 
In recent times, [[Ysera]]'s most trusted lieutenants have been warped by a [[Emerald Nightmare|dark new power]] within the [[Emerald Dream]]. Now these wayward sentinels have passed through the [[Great Tree]]s into [[Azeroth (world)|Azeroth]], intending to spread madness and terror throughout the mortal kingdoms.
 
   
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[[Deepholm]] (Unnamed dungeon){{·}} [[Skywall]] <small>(Unnamed dungeon, Unnamed raid)</small>{{·}} [[Abyssal Maw]] <tt>([[Abyssal Maw (instance)|Abyssal Maw]], [[Throne of the Tides]])</tt>
===Lethon===
 
[[Lethon]]'s exposure to the aberration within the Emerald Dream not only darkened the hue of the mighty dragon's scales, but also empowered him with the ability to extract malevolent shades from his enemies. Once joined with their master, the shades imbue the dragon with healing energies. It should come as no surprise, then, that Lethon is considered to be among the most formidable of Ysera's wayward lieutenants.
 
   
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Without a <nowiki><small></nowiki>, the wings of a dungeon appears too big and with a <nowiki><tt></nowiki> the character form look very strange (large spaces between letters)
===Emeriss===
 
The mysterious dark power within the Emerald Dream has transformed the once-majestic [[Emeriss]] into a rotting, diseased monstrosity. Reports from the few who have survived encounters with the dragon have told horrifying tales of putrid mushrooms erupting from the corpses of their dead companions. Emeriss is truly the most gruesome and appalling of Ysera's estranged green dragons.
 
   
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Why was the <nowiki><small></nowiki> removed please?
===Ysondre===
 
Once one of Ysera's most trusted lieutenants, [[Ysondre]] has now gone rogue, sowing terror and chaos across the land of Azeroth. Her formerly beneficial healing powers have given way to dark magics, enabling her to cast smoldering lightning and summon the crazed spirits of druids trapped within the Emerald Dream to aid her. Twisted and insane, Ysondre is bent on unleashing vengeance upon the mortal world as if Azeroth were the force behind the Emerald Dream's corruption.
 
   
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{{User:A'noob/sig}} 22:42, April 15, 2010 (UTC)
===Taerar===
 
[[Taerar]] was perhaps the most affected of Ysera's rogue lieutenants. His interaction with the dark force within the Emerald Dream shattered Taerar's sanity as well as his corporeal form. The dragon now exists as a specter with the ability to split into multiple entities, each of which possesses destructive magical powers. Taerar is a cunning and relentless foe who is intent on turning the madness of his existence into reality for the inhabitants of Azeroth.
 
   
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:The small was removed because of the fact that the navbox already has a setting of small font on it (90% normal size?). That, multiplied by the sizing on small (likely to be also 85-90%), and it had strange rendering. Firefox makes it look like the tt but only smaller. In general, it's just not fun to look at stuff that small when it is easily avoidable. --[[User:Sky2042|Sky]] ([[User talk:Sky2042|t]] · [[Special:Contributions/Sky2042|c]]) 02:01, April 16, 2010 (UTC)
==Strategy==
 
They are raid-level difficulty, though some dragons are more challenging than others.
 
   
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==Alphabetical vs Natural Ordering==
All four dragons share the Sleep (summoning "Dream Fog"), Noxious Breath, Tail Sweep, Mark of Nature and Aura of Nature abilities. Each dragon also has a few unique abilities. One of these is considered the dragon's ace move, and will be performed when the dragon loses 25 ± 5% of its max life. In other words, the ace move will only be performed three times; when the dragon is at 25%, 50%, and 75% life. When it is performed, the dragon will also yell something. See the individual dragons' page for abilities and specific strategies.
 
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Right now, it seems that dungeons from the same hub are alphabetically ordered. I think this should be changed to ordering based on the level of the dungeon (from within the same hub) as this strikes me as a more natural ordering. For example, PoS(5) should not come after ICC(10/25) simply because P comes after I in the English language. I think most people would consider the natural ordering to be FoS, PoS, HoR, ICC in that case. [[User:Ddcorkum|Ddcorkum]] ([[User talk:Ddcorkum|talk]]) 21:08, 9 November 2010 (UTC)
   
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:And the hubs are in alphabetical order with each other as well... it just makes it easier to find things if they're in an order that doesn't require you to already know what order the place should be done in. Here's an example... {{t|Ink}} has the articles in the order of when you get them... but as you can see on [[Template talk:Ink]], some users would prefer alphabetical order. {{User:Coobra/Sig4}} 00:35, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
==Loot==
 
{| class="darktable"
 
|- valign="top"
 
! [[Lethon]] !! [[Emeriss]] !! [[Ysondre (tactics)|Ysondre]] !! [[Taerar]]
 
|- valign="top"
 
|
 
*{{item|icon=|Belt of the Dark Bog}}
 
*{{item|icon=|Black Bark Wristbands}}
 
*{{item|icon=|Dark Heart Pants}}
 
*{{item|icon=|Deviate Growth Cap}}
 
*{{item|icon=|Gauntlets of the Shining Light}}
 
*{{item|icon=|Malignant Footguards}}
 
|
 
*{{item|icon=|Ring of the Unliving}}
 
*{{item|icon=|Polished Ironwood Crossbow}}
 
*{{item|icon=|Dragonheart Necklace}}
 
*{{item|icon=|Boots of the Endless Moor}}
 
*{{item|icon=|Circlet of Restless Dreams}}
 
|
 
*{{item|icon=|Acid Inscribed Pauldrons}}
 
*{{item|icon=|Emerald Dragonfang}}
 
*{{item|icon=|Hibernation Crystal}}
 
*{{item|icon=|Jade Inlaid Vestments}}
 
*{{item|icon=|Leggings of the Demented Mind}}
 
*{{item|icon=|Strangely Glyphed Legplates}}
 
|
 
*{{item|icon=|Mindtear Band}}
 
*{{item|icon=|Mendicant's Slippers}}
 
*{{item|icon=|Nightmare Blade}}
 
*{{item|icon=|Unnatural Leather Spaulders}}
 
*{{item|icon=|Boots of Fright}}
 
|-
 
! colspan="4" | Shared
 
|- valign="top"
 
|
 
*{{item|icon=|Nightmare Engulfed Object}}
 
*{{item|icon=|Acid Inscribed Greaves}}
 
*{{item|icon=|Ancient Corroded Leggings}}
 
*{{item|icon=|Dragonbone Wristguards}}
 
*{{item|icon=|Dragonspur Wraps}}
 
*{{item|icon=|Gloves of Delusional Power}}
 
*{{item|icon=|Green Dragonskin Cloak}}
 
*{{item|icon=|Hammer of Bestial Fury}}
 
*{{item|icon=|Staff of Rampant Growth}}
 
*{{item|icon=|Trance Stone}}
 
|}
 
   
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::Another solution here would be to cut the dungeon by expansion instead of continent, but that would make three big categories. I'll make some test about this {{User:A'noob/sig}} 09:41, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
==See also==
 
*[[Green dragonflight]]
 
*[[Eranikus]]
 
   
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:::See my draft [[User:Gourra/Sandbox/4|here]]. --{{User:Gourra/Sig2}} 10:16, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
==External links==
 
<!-- Read http://www.wowpedia.org/Wowpedia:External_links before posting your links here.
 
Links that do not conform to the rules will be DELETED.
 
Repeat violations may result in a BAN.
 
Have a nice day. :) -->
 
{{elink|type=wowus|link=http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/info/raiddungeons/fourdragons/|desc=Dragons of Nightmare}}
 
{{elink|type=woweu|http://www.wow-europe.com/en/info/underdev/1p8/fourdragons/fourdragons.html|desc=Dragons of Nightmare}}
 
   
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:I'm with Gourra, it's bigger, yes, but the current template is already a mess of in-line icons.
{{Raid encounters}}
 
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:The order, imo, should be alphabeticall for "location", and level for "instance". That means Vortex Pinnacle comes before Throne of the Four Winds, but Skywall is the last of the list. It's fine in Gourra's version.
{{Green Dragonflight}}
 
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:Also, I think the template should be renamed to instances, because it includes raids, too. Battlegrounds and Arenas should be linked, but not included.--[[User:Lon-ami|Lon-ami]] ([[User talk:Lon-ami|talk]]) 10:56, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
{{Dragonkin}}
 
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[[Category:Green Dragonflight]]
 
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::Or now that I realize it, we could make a new template called Instancefooter, and include each expansion's PvE instances, arenas and battlegrounds under it, to reduce space.--[[User:Lon-ami|Lon-ami]] ([[User talk:Lon-ami|talk]]) 10:57, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
[[Category:Bosses]]
 
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[[Category:World raid encounters]]
 
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:::The problem of an instancefooter would be that you cannot jump from an expansion's instance to another expansion's instance without first going to that expansion.
[[Category:Ashenvale]]
 
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:::Going from Ragefire Chasm to Grim Batol means going to Cataslysm is mandatory.
[[Category:Duskwood]]
 
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:::{{User:A'noob/sig}} 13:51, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
[[Category:Feralas]]
 
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[[Category:The Hinterlands]]
 
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::::Well, yeah, that's its major flaw, but books have that problem, too, and we live with it.
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::::Anyway, I saw other wikis had "interactive" windows. Using Bookfooter as an example, being interactive would mean the bookfooter changes when you pass the cursor over each header (cursor over novels, it changes to novels, cursor over comics, it changes to comics).
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::::This would avoid having to visit different pages, and would allow to see the entire template from a single place.--[[User:Lon-ami|Lon-ami]] ([[User talk:Lon-ami|talk]]) 14:12, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
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:::::I've drawn the major design of Instancefooter, I'm pretty sure a JS Pro will come over here to give us some '''OnHover''' action script ;)
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:::::{{User:A'noob/sig}} 14:15, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
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::::::Just because it works with Bookfooter doesn't mean that it will work for instances. --{{User:Gourra/Sig2}} 16:34, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
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:::::::I'm not sure if you understood the point with my draft, which was that it was divided by expansion. With Instancefooter you can't even get from for example Wailing Caverns to Grim Batol! --{{User:Gourra/Sig2}} 16:37, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
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::::::::Like Lon-ami said, you cannot do it with books either, but with leave with it. Nothing terrible to pass by the expansion to get your dungeon. And it seems to work and fit rather nicely. Or am I wrong?
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::::::::{{User:A'noob/sig}} 16:39, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
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:::::::::And why should I care if it works for Bookfooter? You're making it give unnecessary amounts of work for viewers to get to where they want. Who even asked for an Instancefooter in the first place? It seems to me that you're the only one who wanted it. --{{User:Gourra/Sig2}} 16:42, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
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==Abandon Dungeons to Instancefooter==
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{{Proposal}}
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The purpose of this vote is to choose between using {{t|Dungeons}} or using {{t|Instancefooter}}.
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Place your vote in under the template you want to use.
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{{Vote/Vote}} <!-- Possible tags: Vote/Vote Vote/Closing Accepted Declined -->
 
===Votes===
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<div style="margin-left: 0.5em;">
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;<span style="color:green;">Instancefooter</span>: <!-- Add: {{vote|Yes|~~ ~~|optional comment}} below (remove space between "~ ~")-->
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{{vote|Yes|{{User:A'noob/sig}} 17:00, 12 November 2010 (UTC)|Nominated: Dungeons is a mammoth template, size must not be sacrified in favor of accessibility.}}
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{{vote|Yes|sig={{User:Pcj/sig}} 17:01, 12 November 2010 (UTC)}}
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;<span style="color:green;">Dungeons</span>: <!-- Add: {{vote|No|~~ ~~|optional comment}} below (remove space between "~ ~")-->
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{{vote|Yes|sig={{User:Gourra/Sig2}} 17:12, 12 November 2010 (UTC)}}
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</div>
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===Comments===
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I think none of those is the answer.
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The answer, imo, is a new style of Bookfooter, where, when you move the cursor over the icon of the expansion, the table below changes to the instances of that expansion.
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Some graphic example: http://es.pokemon.wikia.com/wiki/Mew
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(You must go to preferences and deactivate Oasis to work)
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If you notice, under the image of the Pokémon, there are 2 dates. Putting the cursor over one of them changes the image to that one.
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That wiki, one of the best designed ones, imo, had a lot of templates that worked like that, and it was awesome. I'm not an usual editor there (joined just when I replayed Blue some months ago) so I'm not sure how those codes work.
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If we achieve something like that for Template:Bookfooter, we could make a Instancefooter that works properly.--[[User:Lon-ami|Lon-ami]] ([[User talk:Lon-ami|talk]]) 20:20, 12 November 2010 (UTC)

Revision as of 20:20, 12 November 2010

I'm going to change the way this works by adding the dungeon wings as opposed to the name of the wider dungeon, as I think that is more useful for navigating through instances. As it is now, you can't access for example Serpentshrine Cavern directly through the nav bar, instead having to go via Coilfang and then access it from there, which I find quite clunky. Feel free to discuss it. ---- Varghedin Varghedin  talk / contribs 07:33, 10 August 2008 (UTC)

<small> vs <tt>

I am just putting an exemple here:

Deepholm (Unnamed dungeon) · Skywall (Unnamed dungeon, Unnamed raid) · Abyssal Maw (Abyssal Maw, Throne of the Tides)

Without a <small>, the wings of a dungeon appears too big and with a <tt> the character form look very strange (large spaces between letters)

Why was the <small> removed please?

IconSmall Hamuul Loremaster A'noob, Arch Druid of the Noobhoof Clan (talk/contribz) 22:42, April 15, 2010 (UTC)

The small was removed because of the fact that the navbox already has a setting of small font on it (90% normal size?). That, multiplied by the sizing on small (likely to be also 85-90%), and it had strange rendering. Firefox makes it look like the tt but only smaller. In general, it's just not fun to look at stuff that small when it is easily avoidable. --Sky (t · c) 02:01, April 16, 2010 (UTC)

Alphabetical vs Natural Ordering

Right now, it seems that dungeons from the same hub are alphabetically ordered. I think this should be changed to ordering based on the level of the dungeon (from within the same hub) as this strikes me as a more natural ordering. For example, PoS(5) should not come after ICC(10/25) simply because P comes after I in the English language. I think most people would consider the natural ordering to be FoS, PoS, HoR, ICC in that case. Ddcorkum (talk) 21:08, 9 November 2010 (UTC)

And the hubs are in alphabetical order with each other as well... it just makes it easier to find things if they're in an order that doesn't require you to already know what order the place should be done in. Here's an example... {{Ink}} has the articles in the order of when you get them... but as you can see on Template talk:Ink, some users would prefer alphabetical order. SnakeSssssssssssssssssssssssss Coobra sig3For Pony! (Sssss/Slithered) 00:35, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
Another solution here would be to cut the dungeon by expansion instead of continent, but that would make three big categories. I'll make some test about this IconSmall Hamuul Loremaster A'noob, Arch Druid of the Noobhoof Clan (talk/contribz) 09:41, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
See my draft here. --g0urra[T҂C] 10:16, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
I'm with Gourra, it's bigger, yes, but the current template is already a mess of in-line icons.
The order, imo, should be alphabeticall for "location", and level for "instance". That means Vortex Pinnacle comes before Throne of the Four Winds, but Skywall is the last of the list. It's fine in Gourra's version.
Also, I think the template should be renamed to instances, because it includes raids, too. Battlegrounds and Arenas should be linked, but not included.--Lon-ami (talk) 10:56, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
Or now that I realize it, we could make a new template called Instancefooter, and include each expansion's PvE instances, arenas and battlegrounds under it, to reduce space.--Lon-ami (talk) 10:57, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
The problem of an instancefooter would be that you cannot jump from an expansion's instance to another expansion's instance without first going to that expansion.
Going from Ragefire Chasm to Grim Batol means going to Cataslysm is mandatory.
IconSmall Hamuul Loremaster A'noob, Arch Druid of the Noobhoof Clan (talk/contribz) 13:51, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
Well, yeah, that's its major flaw, but books have that problem, too, and we live with it.
Anyway, I saw other wikis had "interactive" windows. Using Bookfooter as an example, being interactive would mean the bookfooter changes when you pass the cursor over each header (cursor over novels, it changes to novels, cursor over comics, it changes to comics).
This would avoid having to visit different pages, and would allow to see the entire template from a single place.--Lon-ami (talk) 14:12, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
I've drawn the major design of Instancefooter, I'm pretty sure a JS Pro will come over here to give us some OnHover action script ;)
IconSmall Hamuul Loremaster A'noob, Arch Druid of the Noobhoof Clan (talk/contribz) 14:15, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
Just because it works with Bookfooter doesn't mean that it will work for instances. --g0urra[T҂C] 16:34, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
I'm not sure if you understood the point with my draft, which was that it was divided by expansion. With Instancefooter you can't even get from for example Wailing Caverns to Grim Batol! --g0urra[T҂C] 16:37, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
Like Lon-ami said, you cannot do it with books either, but with leave with it. Nothing terrible to pass by the expansion to get your dungeon. And it seems to work and fit rather nicely. Or am I wrong?
IconSmall Hamuul Loremaster A'noob, Arch Druid of the Noobhoof Clan (talk/contribz) 16:39, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
And why should I care if it works for Bookfooter? You're making it give unnecessary amounts of work for viewers to get to where they want. Who even asked for an Instancefooter in the first place? It seems to me that you're the only one who wanted it. --g0urra[T҂C] 16:42, 12 November 2010 (UTC)

Abandon Dungeons to Instancefooter

The purpose of this vote is to choose between using {{Dungeons}} or using {{Instancefooter}}.

Place your vote in under the template you want to use.


Votes

Instancefooter
  1. Yes IconSmall Hamuul Loremaster A'noob, Arch Druid of the Noobhoof Clan (talk/contribz) 17:00, 12 November 2010 (UTC) - (Nominated: Dungeons is a mammoth template, size must not be sacrified in favor of accessibility.)
  2. Yes PcjWowpedia wiki manager (TDrop me a line!C207,729 contributions and counting) 17:01, 12 November 2010 (UTC) - (no comment)


Dungeons
  1. Yes g0urra[T҂C] 17:12, 12 November 2010 (UTC) - (no comment)

Comments

I think none of those is the answer.

The answer, imo, is a new style of Bookfooter, where, when you move the cursor over the icon of the expansion, the table below changes to the instances of that expansion.

Some graphic example: http://es.pokemon.wikia.com/wiki/Mew

(You must go to preferences and deactivate Oasis to work)

If you notice, under the image of the Pokémon, there are 2 dates. Putting the cursor over one of them changes the image to that one.

That wiki, one of the best designed ones, imo, had a lot of templates that worked like that, and it was awesome. I'm not an usual editor there (joined just when I replayed Blue some months ago) so I'm not sure how those codes work.

If we achieve something like that for Template:Bookfooter, we could make a Instancefooter that works properly.--Lon-ami (talk) 20:20, 12 November 2010 (UTC)