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(Yogg-Saron NPC)
 
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Is the word "titanic" ever used in describing them, or was that added to disambiguate them?--{{User:Sandwichman2448/Sig}} 18:46, March 21, 2010 (UTC)
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{{Stub/NPC}}
 
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:It's used to separate them from the other [[watcher]]s. -- [[User:Dark T Zeratul|Dark T Zeratul]] ([[User talk:Dark T Zeratul|talk]]) 21:32, March 21, 2010 (UTC)
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{{for|the description about the boss|Mimiron}}
 
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{{npcbox
 
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|name = Mimiron
 
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|image = Noimage.jpg
 
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|race = Keepers
 
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|creature = [[Giant]]
 
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|level = ??
 
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|type = Boss
 
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|faction = Combat
 
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|location = [[Ulduar]]
 
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|aggro = {{aggro|1|1}}
 
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|health = 14M
 
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}}
 
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'''Mimiron''' is one of the Keepers of [[Ulduar]]. After defeating the Mimiron [[Mimiron|boss]], you can speak to him to seek his aid during the [[Yogg-Saron (tactics)|Yogg-Saron]] encounter.
 
   
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==The purpose of this page==
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==Attacks and abilities==
 
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The entire purpose of this page was originally to have a place for the group of "watchers" around Ulduar, of which it is not known whether or not they are titans or titanic constructs. Before that, this was a part of the [[Watcher]] page, but it was split and disambiguated. The name it was split to could easily been "Watcher (titanic)" or "Keeper (titanic)" or something like that. The term used was somewhat arbitrary (see above). Now, I see several titanic things with "watcher" in their names listed on this page. If a "watcher" does not have confusing godlike power, there is a place for it: [[Stone watcher]]. Now, I was actually planning for the possible deletion of this page, when I saw something that Ashbear160 pointed out actually made it to live: Ironaya is "a Titanic Watcher."[http://www.wowhead.com/quest=27672] The term was made canon after this page came into being, but it is canon none the less.--{{User:Sandwichman2448/Sig}} 01:27, 16 December 2010 (UTC)
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* {{abilities|Speed of Invention|Increases all damage done by 10% and movement speed by 20%. Increases player size by 10%.|id=62670|image=INV Gizmo 07}}
 
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* {{abilities|Destabilization Matrix|Mimiron channels a beam of titan energy that destabilizes the molecular structure of certain Saronite based creatures, reducing attack speed by 100% and casting speed by 300%. Cast on all tentacles outside in the encounter.|id=65210|image=Spell Shaman SpectralTransformation}}
 
   
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:Sometimes I feel we influence Blizzard too much xDDD.--[[User:Lon-ami|Lon-ami]] ([[User talk:Lon-ami|talk]]) 10:29, 16 December 2010 (UTC)
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== Strategies ==
 
   
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::It may not have been the fault of Wowpedia or its predecessor. However, this formerly speculative category has at least one cite-able member now, unless Ironaya is only a "Watcher" that is "Titanic." The naming convention is consistent with some other proper names for Blizzard entities, so it may not be purely descriptive, but it might be.--{{User:Sandwichman2448/Sig}} 21:34, 16 December 2010 (UTC)
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==Quotes==
 
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::Update:Moved from "Titanic watcher" to "Watcher (titanic)".--{{User:Sandwichman2448/Sig}} 23:20, 13 January 2011 (UTC)
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==Notes==
 
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:::Why do that when we have "Titanic Watcher" in-game? :S--[[User:Lon-ami|Lon-ami]] ([[User talk:Lon-ami|talk]]) 12:24, 14 January 2011 (UTC)
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== External links ==
 
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<!-- Read http://www.wowwiki.com/WoWWiki:External_links before posting your links here.
 
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::::Only one entity can be (retroactively) cited as a "Titanic Watcher". The rest are just "Watchers" and sometimes "Keepers".--{{User:Sandwichman2448/Sig}} 18:28, 14 January 2011 (UTC)
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Links that do not conform to the rules will be DELETED.
 
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Repeat violations may result in a BAN.
 
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:I'm going to organize them by location if anybody has something against it tell me so--[[User:Ashbear160|Ashbear160]] ([[User talk:Ashbear160|talk]]) 01:37, 25 January 2011 (UTC)
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Have a nice day. :) -->
 
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{{Elinks-NPC|33412}}
 
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::I still don't know if the things on this list are all the same type of thing, or are all in the same "group".--{{User:Sandwichman2448/Sig}} 01:41, 25 January 2011 (UTC)
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[[Category:Ulduar NPCs]]
 
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[[Category:Boss related mobs]]
 
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:::When blizzard doesn't give us the information we have to fill the gaps with general information, and yes i agree i think some of these don't belong to this group (Maiden of virtue wasn't nearby a titan place)(Nablya might be a titan), and some should be here (algalon he was a creation of titanic origin with the function of observe/watch), as long as we interpret the information without speculating i think it's okay--[[User:Ashbear160|Ashbear160]] ([[User talk:Ashbear160|talk]]) 02:04, 25 January 2011 (UTC)
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::::What you just wrote was (in part) speculation, and by your logic this page is ''not'' okay. I would like a broader argument please.--{{User:Sandwichman2448/Sig}} 02:09, 25 January 2011 (UTC)
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:::::Yes those () mentions were speculation but you didn't see me removing or adding them, that was speculation, interpreting the information is using the information that blizzard gave us, we know all of these are "Watchers of Titanic origin", this is not speculation, however there is a both a need to call these guys something, and blizzard gave us a name that means the same thing--[[User:Ashbear160|Ashbear160]] ([[User talk:Ashbear160|talk]]) 02:17, 25 January 2011 (UTC)
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:::::I actually meant maiden of virtue never been related to anything titanic other than her model--[[User:Ashbear160|Ashbear160]] ([[User talk:Ashbear160|talk]]) 02:18, 25 January 2011 (UTC)
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::::::I do not want the "need to call these guys something" to lead to a name being used wrongly. Various questions need to be asked, from both directions, such as 'what is a "watcher"' and 'what are each of the guys listed on this page'? If those answers really do match, then it needs to be asked 'what are the properties of a "watcher"/whatever the guys are'. If the answers do not match, then the page needs to be split up into the "watcher" title and the race(s)/group(s) that this wiki is calling "watcher". Also, the Maiden of Virtue also shares the same naming style with the Maiden of Grief, who is in the Ulduar complex.--{{User:Sandwichman2448/Sig}} 02:26, 25 January 2011 (UTC)
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:"A Watcher(titanic) is a humanoid being that was made by the titans to take watch something" if i pick up the dictionary http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/watch
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:We can determine that the functions of these guys fit the definition of Watch(including algalon), if you feel there's a need to distinguish between them both you are free to do it, as long as a article listing Titanic Watchers or Watchers (titanic) is kept intact i have no problem
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:Good point although i have my doubts about the maiden of grief too, i'm not going to touch it--[[User:Ashbear160|Ashbear160]] ([[User talk:Ashbear160|talk]]) 02:42, 25 January 2011 (UTC)
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::You are citing... a dictionary. So, you say that watchers watch (that is true), and on this page, titanic things that watch should be listed. However, what would the point of a page with those standards be? That does not anwser any of the questions I just put forth (even vaguely). Why should a page that says something so completely bland and obvious by kept? You know, I could reassemble this page to just list, with minimal context (even less than there is now, because no one will be looking for the context this time), titanic things that have been called a watcher. I, however, dislike that idea.--{{User:Sandwichman2448/Sig}} 02:52, 25 January 2011 (UTC)
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:::Because blizzard states them as watchers (as either title or descriptive), and distinguishes them from the rest of titanic creations, like earthen, tol'vir and mountain giants, and gives them a specific responsibility and are significantly more powerful than the rest of titanic creations, because of their specific responsibility, their responsibility is to watch something, if blizzard didn't bother to distinguish them i would be the one at fault, but blizzard does distinguish them, however i don't think all of those listed here should be here and some that are missing but that is a entirely different discussion--[[User:Ashbear160|Ashbear160]] ([[User talk:Ashbear160|talk]]) 03:02, 25 January 2011 (UTC)
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::::''How'' (and where) does Blizzard distinguish the things listed on this page from the other titanic creations? Do they distinguish them from ''stone watchers''?--{{User:Sandwichman2448/Sig}} 03:10, 25 January 2011 (UTC)
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:::::Not directly, but i never saw that the things like thorim and loken using the ability to shift trough time, and the stone keeper article, kinda says that stone watchers are not sapient constructs while Thorim and Loken, so by the only definitions we have of stone keeper and stone watcher, these watchers not only do not fit but are clearly superior in both intellect and in power(again with some exceptions but that's a different discussion all together)--[[User:Ashbear160|Ashbear160]] ([[User talk:Ashbear160|talk]]) 03:21, 25 January 2011 (UTC)
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::::::So they (at least some) could just be really powerful and really well programmed stone watchers.--{{User:Sandwichman2448/Sig}} 03:23, 25 January 2011 (UTC)

Revision as of 03:23, 25 January 2011

Is the word "titanic" ever used in describing them, or was that added to disambiguate them?--SWM2448 18:46, March 21, 2010 (UTC)

It's used to separate them from the other watchers. -- Dark T Zeratul (talk) 21:32, March 21, 2010 (UTC)

The purpose of this page

The entire purpose of this page was originally to have a place for the group of "watchers" around Ulduar, of which it is not known whether or not they are titans or titanic constructs. Before that, this was a part of the Watcher page, but it was split and disambiguated. The name it was split to could easily been "Watcher (titanic)" or "Keeper (titanic)" or something like that. The term used was somewhat arbitrary (see above). Now, I see several titanic things with "watcher" in their names listed on this page. If a "watcher" does not have confusing godlike power, there is a place for it: Stone watcher. Now, I was actually planning for the possible deletion of this page, when I saw something that Ashbear160 pointed out actually made it to live: Ironaya is "a Titanic Watcher."[1] The term was made canon after this page came into being, but it is canon none the less.--SWM2448 01:27, 16 December 2010 (UTC)

Sometimes I feel we influence Blizzard too much xDDD.--Lon-ami (talk) 10:29, 16 December 2010 (UTC)
It may not have been the fault of Wowpedia or its predecessor. However, this formerly speculative category has at least one cite-able member now, unless Ironaya is only a "Watcher" that is "Titanic." The naming convention is consistent with some other proper names for Blizzard entities, so it may not be purely descriptive, but it might be.--SWM2448 21:34, 16 December 2010 (UTC)
Update:Moved from "Titanic watcher" to "Watcher (titanic)".--SWM2448 23:20, 13 January 2011 (UTC)
Why do that when we have "Titanic Watcher" in-game? :S--Lon-ami (talk) 12:24, 14 January 2011 (UTC)
Only one entity can be (retroactively) cited as a "Titanic Watcher". The rest are just "Watchers" and sometimes "Keepers".--SWM2448 18:28, 14 January 2011 (UTC)
I'm going to organize them by location if anybody has something against it tell me so--Ashbear160 (talk) 01:37, 25 January 2011 (UTC)
I still don't know if the things on this list are all the same type of thing, or are all in the same "group".--SWM2448 01:41, 25 January 2011 (UTC)
When blizzard doesn't give us the information we have to fill the gaps with general information, and yes i agree i think some of these don't belong to this group (Maiden of virtue wasn't nearby a titan place)(Nablya might be a titan), and some should be here (algalon he was a creation of titanic origin with the function of observe/watch), as long as we interpret the information without speculating i think it's okay--Ashbear160 (talk) 02:04, 25 January 2011 (UTC)
What you just wrote was (in part) speculation, and by your logic this page is not okay. I would like a broader argument please.--SWM2448 02:09, 25 January 2011 (UTC)
Yes those () mentions were speculation but you didn't see me removing or adding them, that was speculation, interpreting the information is using the information that blizzard gave us, we know all of these are "Watchers of Titanic origin", this is not speculation, however there is a both a need to call these guys something, and blizzard gave us a name that means the same thing--Ashbear160 (talk) 02:17, 25 January 2011 (UTC)
I actually meant maiden of virtue never been related to anything titanic other than her model--Ashbear160 (talk) 02:18, 25 January 2011 (UTC)
I do not want the "need to call these guys something" to lead to a name being used wrongly. Various questions need to be asked, from both directions, such as 'what is a "watcher"' and 'what are each of the guys listed on this page'? If those answers really do match, then it needs to be asked 'what are the properties of a "watcher"/whatever the guys are'. If the answers do not match, then the page needs to be split up into the "watcher" title and the race(s)/group(s) that this wiki is calling "watcher". Also, the Maiden of Virtue also shares the same naming style with the Maiden of Grief, who is in the Ulduar complex.--SWM2448 02:26, 25 January 2011 (UTC)
"A Watcher(titanic) is a humanoid being that was made by the titans to take watch something" if i pick up the dictionary http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/watch
We can determine that the functions of these guys fit the definition of Watch(including algalon), if you feel there's a need to distinguish between them both you are free to do it, as long as a article listing Titanic Watchers or Watchers (titanic) is kept intact i have no problem
Good point although i have my doubts about the maiden of grief too, i'm not going to touch it--Ashbear160 (talk) 02:42, 25 January 2011 (UTC)
You are citing... a dictionary. So, you say that watchers watch (that is true), and on this page, titanic things that watch should be listed. However, what would the point of a page with those standards be? That does not anwser any of the questions I just put forth (even vaguely). Why should a page that says something so completely bland and obvious by kept? You know, I could reassemble this page to just list, with minimal context (even less than there is now, because no one will be looking for the context this time), titanic things that have been called a watcher. I, however, dislike that idea.--SWM2448 02:52, 25 January 2011 (UTC)
Because blizzard states them as watchers (as either title or descriptive), and distinguishes them from the rest of titanic creations, like earthen, tol'vir and mountain giants, and gives them a specific responsibility and are significantly more powerful than the rest of titanic creations, because of their specific responsibility, their responsibility is to watch something, if blizzard didn't bother to distinguish them i would be the one at fault, but blizzard does distinguish them, however i don't think all of those listed here should be here and some that are missing but that is a entirely different discussion--Ashbear160 (talk) 03:02, 25 January 2011 (UTC)
How (and where) does Blizzard distinguish the things listed on this page from the other titanic creations? Do they distinguish them from stone watchers?--SWM2448 03:10, 25 January 2011 (UTC)
Not directly, but i never saw that the things like thorim and loken using the ability to shift trough time, and the stone keeper article, kinda says that stone watchers are not sapient constructs while Thorim and Loken, so by the only definitions we have of stone keeper and stone watcher, these watchers not only do not fit but are clearly superior in both intellect and in power(again with some exceptions but that's a different discussion all together)--Ashbear160 (talk) 03:21, 25 January 2011 (UTC)
So they (at least some) could just be really powerful and really well programmed stone watchers.--SWM2448 03:23, 25 January 2011 (UTC)