Old Gods speculation

This article or section includes speculation, observations or opinions possibly supported by lore or by Blizzard officials. It should not be taken as representing official lore.

This article contains theories and speculation related to the Old Gods.

Creative inspiration

It is suspected that The Old Gods are partially based on the legends of the Great Old Ones and the Outer Gods, creations from the legend of Cthulhu written by H.P. Lovecraft.

The Imprisoned Gods' Location

• It is possible that one of the imprisoned Old Gods is located beneath the Tirisfal Glades. When the high elves first landed on the Lordaeron continent, they encountered a strange force.

  Forging inland, the high elves founded a settlement within the tranquil Tirisfal Glades. After a few years, many of them began to go mad. It was theorized that something evil slept beneath that particular part of the world, but the rumors were never proven to be true.

• Another theory is that one of the Old Gods is imprisoned in the Maelstrom, where he commands the naga. The naga, led by the monstrosity that was once Queen Azshara, were mutated from their night elf forms by the Old Gods at the formation of the Maelstom during the Sundering of the World.
• The Arakkoa in Shadowmoon Valley are attempting to summon an Old God to Outland. Its model looks exactly the same as C'Thun's.
  • In the Warcraft novel Day of the Dragon, page 202 mentions a creature known as the Manta, Behemoth of the Deep. Krasus says it was "ten times the size and strength of a dragon." It was slain at least a century before the events of Day of the Dragon. It is possible this Manta is somehow linked to the Old Gods and the Naga.
• It is possible that one of the three is imprisoned underneath Teldrassil due to the rapid contamination of the new world tree which is too fast to be just the fact that it has not been blessed by the dragons.
• Some have speculated that one or more Old Gods may be responsible for the "Nightmare" invading the Emerald Dream.
  • THIS IS NOT SPECULATION** For the Ahn'Qiraj scepter quest chain, Malfurion Stormrage tells you that an old god "like the one you are trying to defeat" (so an old god other then C'Thun) is corrupting the Emerald Dream. Also, during the Eranikus encounter, Eranikus makes reference to the one he is serving, an Old God. It is also possible that the "slain" Old God in The Master's Glaive may be the cause of the nightmare, being that instead of it being destroyed it merely shed it's physical form and entered the Emerald Dream after death.
• More possible however, since the Old God in Darkshore was slain before the Emerald dream was even created, and would not have sat around waiting for several tens of-thousands years before deciding to corrupt the Emerald dream, and be the nightmare, is that the old god in Darkshore is utterly dead, in all forms, and that the nightmare is one of the imprisoned Old Gods.
• Another source of contention is that nobody knows for sure how many of the Old Gods still exist. Due to its strong resemblance to C'Thun, many believe that the Forgotten One (see below) from Warcraft III: The Frozen Throne was an Old God. The Forgotten One was killed by Arthas, and now that C'Thun has been slain only two Old Gods would remain. As one is confirmed by in-game lore to be corrupting the Emerald Dream, only one location remains unknown. If so, then many of the other speculated areas for the location of an Old God are actually being corrupted by some other, unknown, entity. However, some think also The Forgotten One, and C'thun himself are just a part of the Old God, possibly it's eyes (Eye of C'thun)

So, we can then conclude from lore that:

1: One is dead in the Master's Glaive.

2: One is C'Thun, slain in Ahn'Qiraj.

3: One was slain by Arthas and Anub'arak in Azjol-Nerub (But may have survived to be a raid boss in WoW).

4: One is corrupting the Emerald Dream (this is confirmed to be the action of an Old God who isn't C'Thun.).

We can speculate that the the locations of the one corrupting the Emerald dream and the third imprisoned one are these, but it is unknown which is which:

1: One of them is still trapped in Tirisfal Glades: the large empty space on the left of the map indicates the site of a future instance.

2: One of them is under the Maelstrom, as indicated by lore.

It's probably that one corporeal form may lie in SE Azeroth. God #1 is in NW azeroth, God #2 is in NE, #3 in SW, #4 in the center. It would make sense that the fifth is in the SE, although this is only speculation. The possible location of the SE god is Uldum, the ruins that are in southern Tanaris, another unexplored portion of the game.

Another theory on the locations of the Old Gods, and the Titan's reasoning when imprisoning them, that only involves three Old Gods, since the Titans thought the actually dead Old God as well as C'Thun both dead, and then would have not bothered caring about them when imprisoning the three remaining ones, is that the Titans wanted to place the Old Gods as far away from each other as possible. Placing the Old three Gods as far away from each other as possible on Old Kalimdor, would, when the world was sundered place the Old Gods on one continent each. Regarding the rumours of Old God prisons, this theory might be all wrong, but since Old Gods are a very misty subject with little real facts from Blizzard, it can still be considered.

The Forgotten One

An ancient, terrible beast lay imprisoned beneath Azjol-Nerub, until Illidan's attempt to melt away the polar ice-caps surrounding Icecrown and crush Ner'zhul, accidentally broke the beast's prison. Before it could act. however, Arthas Menethil, Anub'arak, and a small army of undead nerubians crashed into its prison, and after a most epic battle, Arthas managed to slay it.

Many sources point toward the suggested fact that this "Forgotten One", as Anub'arak reffered to it, was in fact an Old God; one of the three imprisoned by the Titans. Here follow some:

• When it comes to its physical form, C'Thun is identical to it, and the glimpses of Old Gods in Knaak's "The War of the Ancients" are of huge tentacles, such as the ones of C'Thun and the one in Azjol'Nerub. This hints that all Old Gods are multi-eyed, multi-mawed and tentacled, pink blobs in physical form. That the "Forgotten one" would have this appearance and NOT be an Old God is far-fetched.

• It is very possible that the term "Forgotten One" is what nerubians call Old Gods in general. First, Anub'arak called it "a Forgotten One", not "the Forgotten One", which means that there are several. Second, the sight of it scared the crap out of even the monstrous Anub'arak. So we have an ancient, terrible evil creature that scares even the scariest of monsters, and there are more of it, and it has the appearence of an Old God, an appearence not shared by anything else known in the Warcraft universe. Would someone really oppose the contested fact that this is indeed an Old God?

• That Arthas managed to slay it is shunned at by most. "Even Arthas couldn't defeat an Old God by himself! That's ridiculous!" They say. First, Arthas had Ner'zhul's second-in-command, Anub'arak with him, and an army of undead. Second, that the three were weakened after centuries of imprisonment is very plausible.

(later added) I can hardly beleive that the Forgotten One killed by Arthas is an Old God. Arthas didn't have "an army of undead" with him, he just had a dozen or so soldiers and was in a very weak state when they reached the Forgotten one (he was losing his powers). And remember that the Old Gods were able to fight with the Titans themselves. And how powerful were the Titans? Quite powerful, as you can see from the fact that Sargeras alone was able to defeat both the Eredar and the Nathrezim with ease. That's including Archimonde, Kil'jaeden, and Velen. So there's no way a pack of undead soldiers with two heroes (one of them very weak) was able to kill an Old God, even if he was in a weakened state (not to mention there is no proof that he really was in a weakened state). And C'Thun was defeated by many heroes, not ordinary units. Also there is a sugestion that C'Thun was weakened because he was wounded by the Titans (they thought they killed him), which doesn't mean that the other Old Gods are also weakened. So whatever that was there's no way it was an Old God. (to here) - Though if you compare 40 'heroes' in WoW to a hero in WC3 you can notice that almost every WC3 hero is nowadays a raid encounter in WoW, which would indicate that you could say that there were two raid bosses against one. Plus taking in count that at that point Arthas was already considerably strong and Anub'arak is propably way stronger than Anub'Rekhan, who can be faced in Naxxramas...

The Forgotten One commanded the Faceless Ones. Rumors suggest that C'Thun also commands some Faceless Ones. Faceless Ones may be a general name for Old God's most elite of minions.

The Forgotten One

It is possible that the Forgotten One tried to do the same to the Nerubian Empire that C'Thun did to Ahn'Qiraj, but eventually failed.

SPECULATION:

It is possible that this "Forgotten One" is trans-dimensional, or by experiencing death was able to enter the Emerald Dream somehow, which would account for the only recent corruption of the Emerald Dream.

It could also be theorized that it is a "projection" of C'Thun, since the WC3 version looks incredibly similar and spawns tentacles to atttack. C'Thun could have attempted to influence control over both the Silithid and Nerubians at the same time to try and raise his army, but while the C'Thun managed to control the Silithid, the Nerubians (with their natural tolerance to mind control) were not swayed and the C'Thun projection was sealed away within the depths of Azjol'nerub. But that theory is based on C'thun using a projection-ability not mentioned anywhere else, and leaves another Old God unnaccounted for. It is then more probable that "The Forgotten One" was an Old God in his own right.

Or it could be that C'Thun was split during the Sundering, half going to Northrend and the other half staying in Kalimdor? This would explained for both forms weakness.

Another possibility is that the Forgotten One was created by C'Thun in his image, in an attempt to create an army to conquer the Nerubians, in order to re-join the old insectoid empire. The fact that Arthas managed to defeat this 'avatar' with relative ease supports this theory.

C'thun being killable by mortals

None of the following theories are actually required, but many people find it hard to swallow that, as with all bosses in WoW, mortals can kill an Old God because we are considered important heros and characters.

Killing C'Thun

The Titans managed to kill an Old God. The Old God in Darkshore was killed by the Titans, really killed. The Titans thought they had killed C'Thun when they left Azeroth. If the Titans thought they had killed C'Thun, then he must have been struck with at least the power used to kill the one in Darkshore. C'Thun did survive, but as the Titans thought they had killed him, it is indisputable that he was as mortally wounded as anything could be. This is where it gets interesting. Since C'Thun was as near death as he was, it is possible that he afterwards wasn't really the Old God he was before. It is in fact, very possible that he was able to regenerate but a fragment of his former strength, after having been so significantly wounded by the Titans. If that is the case (and it probably is), then it would explain how mortals succeeded in defeating and killing him.

Killing Old Gods

It might be that killing of the Old Gods during the events of Warcraft and WoW (C'Thun killed/imprisoned in the War of the Shifting Sands, Arthas killing the Forgotten One (assuming the Forgotten One is an Old God) and warriors of the Alliance and Horde (players) killing C'Thun) can be achieved because the Old Gods were in a regenerative state, having been weakened by some previous conflict, and were just making their way back onto the world stage.

The Origin of the Silithid and Qiraji

• C'Thun created avatars from the Silithid in his own image. These avatars would become known as the Qiraji.
• The Azj'Aqir kingdom split, when the Aqir war with the Gurubashi and Amani Troll empires ended. The exact reasons are unknown. They then became known as the Qiraji and Nerubians.
• Thus the Aqir were part of the Silithid race. Some suggest the Aqir were the avatars who then later evolved into the Qiraji, while another possbility is that C'Thun created the Qiraji from the Silithid directly, and that the Aqir and Silithid are one in the same.
• Theories suggest that the Qiraji were created by C'Thun from the Silithid to control them, but this is uncertain. This second
• The Qiraji bear a slight resemblance to the Faceless Ones from a Warcraft III: The Frozen Throne campaign.

Desolace

File:Goliaths.jpg

One of the two Goliath skeletons in Desolace.

In Desolace, the massive corpses of two combatants lay forever facing each other on two sides of a grand valley. It has been speculated that these bones are either Old Gods or Faceless Ones, although they most resemble Nagas, despite their huge scale.

It should be noted that there's skeleton of a massive naga-resembling beast near the coast of Stranglethorn Vale so it is more likely that these were similar.

A Goblin named Hornizz Brimbuzzle in the Kodo Graveyard provides a quest that refers to these corpses as Dead Goliaths. The quest has nothing to do with the corpses. He just uses them as a landmark.

Avatar of the Old Gods?

There is much controversy surrounding the fact that Arthas, alone aside from Anub'Arak, and severaly weakened, managed to kill an Old God. This leads many to the belief that he killed an "avatar" of an Old God, an extension of it, a sort of disposable body... while the Old God's mind was occupying said body, the actual god was still deep in its prison.

Some may argue that they were defeated so easily because they were in a regenerative state, and this is entirely possible, however all alternatives must be considered.

Following this theory to its logical conclusion, we can now wonder: did we actually kill C'Thun? Or was it just another fake body, another extension of its mind? No clear evidence exists to justify nor nullify this theory... so it remains a mystery, for the moment.

Old Gods and Expansion Speculation

If the theories mentioned above regarding the location of the Old Gods is true, then they would most likely be implemented one by one in various expansions. Check the Rumored Expansions for some of the possible settings for future expansions.

• Perhaps, one Old God would be implemented in an in-game content patch, similar to C'Thun, possibly in Tirisfal Glades, as evidence points this being the location of an old God. As stated earlier, the region west of Deathknell is large enough to support a large instance, similar to the southern parts of Silithus before the Ahn'Qiraj patch.
• Another Old God would be implemented as the final boss for the Emerald Dream rumored expansion, as it is verified that an Old God is responisble for the Nightmare. Whether or not the players would kill a Dream Aspect of some sorts of the Old God, or his corporeal form (possibly still on Azeroth, "sleeping", or both, would have to be decided on. Although, Tigole made references in -03 to having "ran around" in the Emerald dream, indicating that th Emerald Dream is at least partly finished. However, that was several years ago, and there's no telling what's been continued on and what's not. It is also possible that the Emerald Dream won't be an expansion in it's own sense (Like The Burning Crusade), but rather part of a significant patch (Like Naxxramas in 1.11).
• Finally, the third Old God would be found in the Maelstrom with the Naga, as it is also certifed that Highborne loyal to Azhara were turned into Naga by an Old God so they could survive the Sundering. It is likely they now serve the Old God, but it is also quite possible that they instead serve Neptulon.

The order in which these Old Gods were implemented would obviously depend on the order Blizzard released these rumored expansions.

Death of "the" Forgotten One, and Other Gods

Even after Arthas went into the Spider City and attacked the so called "Old God" would his Faceless ones dissapate? as there master is "dead" frankly I believe the Forgotten One just feigned its death...As stated above 40 Men can defeat a VERY weakened C'thun, and Kelthuzad...Let us also note that Kelthuzad and Arthas in WC3 were on a similar power scale...And the Crypt Lord is true probably more powerful then others we face in Naxx...It is probably that they and a dozen or so Undead minions would not be cappable of defeating an Old God, and if he did die, Id think the Faceless ones would dissapear also...Also the term "Faceless One" can be used to describe the different minions of Old Gods...

One is in Azjol-Nerub and is worshipped by the Nerubians according to Blizzcon 07

One is speculated to be Under Teldrassil due to its Speedily Corruption

One is in Ahn'Qiraj, C'Thun

One is somewere near Stranglethorn Vale, due to the presence of Hakkar (A Faceless one?) a servant of the Old Gods...

One is in Naz'jatar the Naga City in the Maelstrom, Possibly Neptulon resides there as well...

One is dead in Darkshore...

So there's are 5 Old Gods...It is possible that The one is Stranglethorn vale is not there and Hakkar was sent from Naz'Jatar, and the Forgotten One is recovering in Northrend...

Teldrassil

It could be possible that the Old God who possibly was under the Teldrassil, drained the power to get into Emerald Dream from the tree and so it decayed.

Are the Old Gods evil, good or something ells?

In most texts including Warcraft lore text the Old Gods are said to be "evil" or "wicked". They are said to have the power to avaken suppressed feelings of wanting to rule the world around you and ignor the consequences of the actings needed to do so.

This could be the reson for the Naga being so driven in there qvest for power and willingnes to kill to get what they want. But is this evil or a primal need to weild your power whit out a conscience? For even tho the Naga where made by the Old Gods they don't seam to surve them that fanaticaly. Not all of them atleast, unless the Naga in Outland are there on some super top-secret mission to get something that could free the Old Gods.

The lore also tells us that the Titens came to Azeroth and defeted the "evil" Old Gods. But the qvestion is according to who did this happen in the way it is said to have happened? Well the only race's that exist in morden day Azeroth that actually back then are the Dragons, the Stone gigants and a few bosses in Uldaman. All this are known allias of the Titans and are not going in to detail whit the mortal races exakly.

And as we all know the saying gose: "It is the victors who wright history". Now Im not saying thet the Old Gods are good guys. Im just wondering if the Titans are the angelical beings they clame to be how come Ironaya screams: "None may steal the secrets of the makers." Is it becose the Titans belived that no mortal races, not even there beloved Dragons, could controll the powers of there secrets? Or is it out of fear of there secrets would reshape any who use them in to a new form of godlike beings, beings that would not have there wisdom? Or is it so that the great secret is that the Old Gods are not what we think them to be?

Maybe the secret that the Titans so despretly want hiden is that they themself where made by the Old Gods?

If we think about it we see that the Titans and the Demons are the opposite of one another. The Titans are peacefull at heart and use there power to creat. The Demons on the other hand love war and death, and they only use there power to get more power no matter what that thos to the world around them. The Titans bring life and order in there wake. The Demons bring death and chaos in there wake.

The two are Life and Death incarnet. And thos both are needed to bring a from of balance in the univers. That brings me to my theory, the Old Gods are really the makers of the univers. The Titans and Demons where made to bring life and death to it in a never ending circil. And then the Titans in there qvest to Order the univers turned on there creators.

One thing that point to this are the corrupt dragons. The Dragons of Nightmare want to missuse there powers to made everyone insane. And the Infinite Dragonflight want to reshape time itself. Both this plans challenge the Order univers made by the Titans. And the power behind both plans is most probably the work of the Old Gods. The most intresting qvestion in this is of corse is Aeonus right when he clame that the Warcraft univers could become free of the hourglass?

Only one thing indicates thos, and that is the fact that Nozdormu did not existed at the creation of the known univers. For if he really was timeless he would have allways existed and would allways exist.