Talk:Anveena Teague/Alignment

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As we know Blizzard has a taste for hidden, and sometimes really hard to spot, pop-culture references and eastereggs. Well, looking through old twilight Zone episodes I found one with a warlock named Teague. Which, in addidtion to the other conspiracy-theories surrounding Anveena and the whole Sunwell-Plot, made me wonder, if the name -Teague- is actually a reference to said episode and maybe a hint that the innocent avatar-girl isn't that innocent and on the good-guys' side at all...--Maibe 20:24, 17 May 2007 (UTC)

It may just be a salute to said episode. Hordesupporter 00:00, 18 May 2007 (UTC)

Exactly whose side would she be on anyway? Also Teague is a fairly common name in general (Jack Sparrow's father in the upcoming film for one). Conspiracy? doubtful but possible. Easeregg? no, doesn't fit the definition in the slightest. --Ragestorm (talk · contr) 01:48, 18 May 2007 (UTC)

whose side? legion. It's a bit strange to see that, even though anveena must be around a good 2-3 years, the bloodelves get their energy from demons and steal/suck it from a captured naaru. Why did they not restore the sunwell yet? Because they worry kalecgos would be heartbroken? as if they would care and as if he'd put himself in front of saving a whole population from the dangers of beeing slaves to the legion. All together the whole plot of the Manwha as well as what we see now is a bit to far away from what was lore before it to NOT hold a big twist somewhere. (IMHO) --Maibe 12:10, 18 May 2007 (UTC)

Just because she changed her dress code doesn't mean she became a Night Elf. Hordesupporter 13:58, 19 May 2007 (UTC)

Anveena has never had any contact with the Legion, so she can hardly join them. Also, the reason the Blood Elves haven't yet rebuilt the Sunwell is the same reason the dragons haven't: the Sunwell IS Anveena, and she is an independant being with her own mind and free will- on Azeroth, only the Aspects, their COnsorts, and possible Elune and the Old Gods have any kind of ability to manipulate her against her will. Lor'themar, Halduron and Sylvanas have agreed that her identity must be kept an absolute secret- Rommath has absolutely no idea what she is. --Ragestorm (talk · contr) 15:55, 18 May 2007 (UTC)

But what if her identity was nothing but a big fat lie? There are so many errors in the story of the trilogy, it can't be explained with -knaak can't write- or -they're retconning it that way- anymore...So, the chances that the whole thing was made up by the legion are just as high as that everything is a giant retcon (but seriously...making sylvanas a nightelf?) --Maibe 17:04, 18 May 2007 (UTC)

Umm... What? you're saying that becuase there are errors in the story, it means that the whole thing was made up by the Legion?--Ragestorm (talk · contr) 17:58, 18 May 2007 (UTC)

Huh? Night Elf? Since when was Sylvanas a Night Elf? if what your refering to are the position of her ears, well... perhaps since she became an undead her ears just droop down or something, when you say she's a Night Elf, are you reffering to her model in WoW, or her apperance in the trilogy? Hordesupporter 01:10, 19 May 2007 (UTC)

No, she's talking about the Sunwell trilogy. In the manga, Sylvanas wears a uniform identical to those of Sentinels (bikini cut, feathered pauldrons, etc), totally out of synch with the fashions of the high elves. --Ragestorm (talk · contr) 01:45, 19 May 2007 (UTC)

Just because she changed her clothes doesn't mean she became a Night Elf. Also note that when the Blood Elf Male does the /cry emote, his ears droop down somewhat, I guess they have some kind of ear muscles they use to keep it up straight Hordesupporter 14:02, 19 May 2007 (UTC)

It's not only the clothes...it's also how she speaks...which High-/bloodelf would shout -by the worldtree- instead of -by the sunwell- or the like?--Maibe 14:07, 19 May 2007 (UTC)

Can you give me a scource that states High Elves/Blood Elves abhor the use of the term "by the world tree"? Hordesupporter 17:56, 19 May 2007 (UTC)

Angry Ogre

Despite being allied with the blood elves,I wouldn't say she's actually evil just horribly misguided and manipulated by the blood elves. Angry ogre 20:07, 10 February 2007 (EST)

She's not even in the game yet! And what's been shown of her character thus far does nothing to lend to this conclusion (of being manipulated or misguided). Neither has there been any hint that the blood elves are even manipulating her. The plot for TBC has yet to be revealed and it's too early to make any assumptions. For all we know, they could easily spin the top and reveal the Naaru are evil or something (not likely, nothing has been hinted of it but it could be done if the team felt like it). But Metzen and his team have provided us with wonderful lore for many years so we should be patient and see what's in store for us. mr. peasant 08.32, 11 February 2007 (GMT)

Angry ogre, the contradictions have yet to cease to amaze me. Just thought you ought to know! :)--Sky 03:44, 11 February 2007 (EST)

Bloody hell, you don't half have some odd thoughts, Ogre. Bounding from one conclusion to the next, without stopping for breath. I agree with Sky. I'm continually amazed. (Do you realise that you just implied that anyone allied with the blood elves is evil? So, er, orcs and ogres too, eh?)

So, yes, let's just wait and see, okay?  Kirkburn talk contr 04:00, 11 February 2007 (EST)

I said despite being allied with the blood elves shes not evil and enough of the plot of TBC has been revealed to realise blood elves are completly evil. One would have to be sick in the head,imprissoned or horribly misguided and manipulated,to stay in a city where slavery and demons runs rampant. Next to the undercity,Silvermoon is the most city in warcraft,its ruled by the dictator Theron,the guards opress citizens,free speech is outlawed,racism is rampant and the guards encourage the player to do evil things. I reckon the blood elves have used magic to manipulate her and fed her lies. Angry ogre 21:35, 11 February 2007 (EST)

You know, I think they were saying the same things about the communists in the 50s. // Montagg (talk · contr) 22:36, 11 February 2007 (EST)

Saying that she's 'allied with the blood elves' is extremely misleading. Do you know this to be a fact? Not only that, but she isn't in Silvermoon. Ogre, you are clutching at straws (not even existent straws at that). Apologies if I haven't noticed the demons "running rampant" in Silvermoon. I must be blind.

Btw, note that you are now suggesting that Kalec is either 'evil' or easily fooled.  Kirkburn talk contr 22:09, 11 February 2007 (EST)

Purely my mistake,and I apologise for that shes in the sunwell Plateau surounded by evil blood elf guards. Aveena is not in a silvermoon but shes still allied with them. What Kalec and Anveena don't know is that blood elves are completly evil and are nothing like the high elves,they'd only use the new sunwell for evil. The dictator Theron probably finds it hilarious that he manipulated a pure and innocent girl and a well meaning dragon into instruments of evil. The demons run free underneath the tailor shop,where they watch over leper gnome slaves. Angry ogre 23:16, 11 February 2007 (EST)

Ah yes, we visit the Assumption Shop again. Do they have a sale on? Do you actually have the tiniest shred of evidence what you're assuming is true? The last book of the trilogy isn't even out yet!  Kirkburn talk contr 23:39, 11 February 2007 (EST)

Its confirmed that their blood elf goverment is evil. Kalec and anveena would never be allied with angel torturing,slavery using,backstabbin blood elves unless even they were manipulated. They obviously don't know the true evil of the blood elves. The blood elves would definetly find someway to use the sunwell for evil like they do with everything else. Angry ogre 00:44, 12 February 2007 (EST)

Kirkburn goes dancing in the field of angels whilst he waits for Angry ogre to actually respond to the question he asked. How do you know that the stuff you mention has occured? How do you know they're 'allied' with the blood elves? How do you know exactly what's going on with the Sunwell? Why are you so obessed with the word 'evil'? Out of everybody I have ever met on the wiki, you have to be the most biased user I have ever found. It's as if you're following some divine path of vengeance against the blood elves. For your own sake, I suggest you find something else to busy your time with.  Kirkburn talk contr 03:38, 12 February 2007 (EST

Fact-Blood elves eyes burn green with demonic energy.

Fact-demonic energy burns away the soul. This is told by a night elf researcher who after studying Satyr brains says demonic energy warps the brain

Fact-Theron is a Dictator who has outlawed free speech. This evidenced by the blood elfs protesting against the goverment are mind controlled to say good things about the goverment.

Educated guess-Fel energy made Theron lose his soul

Fact-blood elves have a destiny of evil. This is told by blizzard townhall blood elf page with dark meaning evil.

Fact-Anveena is a good person.

Fact-Anveena is the avatar of the sunwell.

Fact-Aveena and Kalec think they can help the blood elves,this is evidenced in the sunwell manga.

Fact-Kalec is a good dragon,this needs no confirmation.

Fact-Theron is a corrupt ruler and lets unspeakable crimes go in our silvermoon. Like the torturing of M'ruu,slavery of leper gnomes,freedom of speech taken away, and demons in their city

Educated guess-blood elves are beyond help and have lost most of their soul if not all.

Educated guess-Blood elves would find a way to use the sunwell to hurt innocent people.

Fact-Theron watches over Anveena,him being an evil person its probably not for something benovelent..

Fact-Most if not all of blood elf society is evil. This is evidenced by the fact that blood knights and priests are evil,the rogues are evil theives and murderers,the mages and warlocks are magic crazed maniacs. The only real part of their society who doesn't seem completly evil is the hunters.

Fact-Kalec and Anveena would leave the blood elves if they knew what horrors the blood elves are doing.

My view-Blood elves don't deserve the sunwell. Kalec and Anveena are unaware of the true evil of the blood elves and have been manipulated.

Angry ogre 18:18, 12 February 2007 (EST)

Please cite your sources, Angry. I'm not questioning the validity of your statements, but you need sources. // Montagg (talk · contr) 18:35, 12 February 2007 (EST)

ok,I said where I got this info. Angry ogre 21:50, 12 February 2007 (EST)

All right. Your sources make sense, and the information you have presented in your words is accurate but biased in your favor. I see two overall problems with what you've presented so far, regardless of how you've worded it: Your conclusions are either exaggerate from the facts you have cited OR your conclusions are not independent to the blood elves. ~

I will go down your list and address each point. First, the former claim that your conclusions are exaggerated. ~

• You mention that the blood elves' eyes burn with demonic energy. This means they have been exposed to demonic energy, but this does not necessarily (I mean, automatically, without fail, or no matter what) lead to moral degradation which we associate with "evil." More on this regarding orc and human warlocks.

• On the night elf researcher: Demonic energy may "warp the brain," but this does not necessarily (I mean, automatically, without fail, or no matter what) mean it destroys the soul, which beings in Warcraft need to live. This also does not necessarily preclude moral degradation. If you can provide the actual quest text, we can analyze this further.

• Because Blizzard has intended the blood elves to be "dark" does not necessarily (I mean, automatically, without fail, or no matter what) mean they are morally deficient, or that this "dark" racial flavor necessarily precludes "evil" behavior.

Secondly, the latter claim that your conclusions are not independent to the blood elves. ~

• Again, regarding demonic energy: Warlocks are prevalent and tolerated in the orcish Horde and in human culture. There is a strong theme in the warlock quest lines of not being consumed by the demonic energy that you wield. It is obviously the intention of Blizzard to demarcate enemy NPC warlocks from player-controlled warlocks. Therefore, it is possible that one may wield demonic energy without becoming corrupt by it. This possibility negates your claim that demonic energy necessarily (I mean, automatically, without fail, or no matter what) precludes corruption, moral degredation, or evil behavior.

• Regarding your claim that most or all of blood elf society is evil: You cite the fact that they have rogues and warlocks. Specifically, you say they are "evil theives and murderers,the mages and warlocks are magic crazed maniacs." Humans also have rogues and warlocks. Night elves, trolls and orcs also have rogues. I am curious why a blood elf rogue is more "murderous" than a human one. There is also a very strong theme in the blood elf quest line in controlling your magic addiction and not succumbing to it. Blizzard does this by presenting the player with the Wretched, who have succumbed to their addiction. It is obvious they intend to demarcate enemy NPC blood elves from player-controlled blood elves. It is therefore possible to have a magic addiction but not to become "magic crazed maniacs," as presented in the quest text. This negates your claim.

• Your claims regarding the censorship of free speech and suggestions of a totalitarian government are valid, and I have witnessed these myself. However, there is the possibility that these are being enacted by Rommath, who is not necessarily in line with the rest of blood elf society. You might notice that blood elves themselves are speaking out against such acts.

I would appreciate if you addressed these points that I have made without simply restating your own, since I have logically disproven or called into question all of them. If you can do that in a well thought out manner, we can have a conclusive discussion about this topic. If you do not, I will move your comments to your user talk page and remove any further unproductive comments from this talk page. // Montagg (talk · contr) 22:37, 12 February 2007 (EST)

• Do you honestly think Blood elves can put demonic energy in themselves and get off scott free? Kael and Illidan both giggling souless violent lunatics are living proof that demonic energy always destroys you. Theres no way that blood elves could not end up Kael,they are living the same life he led before he became mad. The eyes just show that they have gone insanely far into demonic energy,too far to be redeemed.

• By dark destiny they mean evil destiny. That means destined to evil

• All warlocks eventually get corrupted by the magik they wield. The fel energy destroys their sanity and soul. Why do you think they are almost outlawed? And basically all rogues are evil and dishonest. At the very least they use dishonarable tactics.

• Rommath is in charge of propaganda not the soldiers. The army is Theron's duty.

• Why the hell are blood knights in the horde anyway. They bring shame to the ancestor's of the horde. If Thrall was smart he would have let the blood elves in after they dismantled the blood knights,their dicatorship and their gnome slavery. The only explanation, I can think of for him letting in Blood knights is that he became corrupt or that he became just stupid. Either way brings great humilation to the horde. To rub salt in the wounds of the horde,Alliance get shamans but horde doesn't actually get paladins only a cheap copy.

Angry ogre 21:20, 13 February 2007 (EST)

Since the majority of your response is based solely on your opinion, and considering Ragestorm's comments on the matter, I will consider this argument closed for futher discussion. (Not to mention that we've veered far from Anveena at this point.) Please do not discuss this any further on this page or others unless you have new evidence (and, if you do, please cite it). // Montagg (talk · contr) 23:15, 13 February 2007 (EST)

This is a rather stupid discussion. Why? Anveena isn't even REAL, let alone human. She is simply the Sunwell's Energy transfigured into humanoid form to keep it hidden. Besides, there are two distinct groups of blood elves, the good and the bad. All players eventually become good by allying with either the Scryers or the Aldor, so it doesn't matter. Yes, the Blood Knights are bad, but they are just one faction, and the story will likely evolve to show that. Anveena and Lor'themar will likely become the "good guys" of the blood elf faction, with Kael, his corrupt Magisters, and the Blood Knights being "bad guys". Suzaku 18:26, 19 February 2007 (EST)

What? Blood Knights can fight Kael in Tempest Keep, they aren't following him any longer, the scryers in Shattrath City mention they are trying to bring the truth about Kael to the blood elves so they can see that following Kael would be a horrible mistake, as for the thing about the "dark destiny" bit, keep in mind that "dark" doesn't automatically mean "evil", also note that in many fiction stories there are characters who use "dark" or "shadow" based powers without being evil themselves. Hordesupporter 01:24, 5 April 2007 (EDT)

Ogre, as a guy with a blood elf main, reading your crud, I am getting tired of your attitude. Last I checked Silvermoon wasn't decorated with desecrated corpses of victims, it wasn't resonating with the screams of tortured prisoners, rampant murder wasn't being committed in the streets, if anything, Silvermoon looks more "good" then Darnassus and Stormwind combined. Anyone with any experience of the lore and World of Warcraft as a BE player can blatantly see the split between Azerothian (player) BE's and Outlander BE's. player BE's do EXACTLY what every alliance and horde player does, which is fight against the burning legion and ultimately defeat evil. Never once in my time on my BE main did I ever feel like I was a soulless, irrevocably evil, demonic servant of the burning legion hell bent on committing evil on a grand scale and committing genocide ontop of all sorts of other evils upon the world. Of course being a hunter I guess I am the exception, as you apparently concede. My friends who have BE's don't feel evil, no BE I have ever seen or played with has conducted themselves in an evil manner or otherwise given the impression their character in the world sufgfers anything more then a slight arrogance (and we all know racial arrogance is [i]purely[/i] a BE trait *rolls eyes*).

This is a wild assumption, but perhaps you should buy burning crusade and visit Silvermoon sometime, and I dunno, EDUCATE yourself please. I know this is somewhat of an emotional response, but as a BE player I am speaking on behalf of all BE players when I say we really don't appreciate your god awful attitude towards us and our faction. Of course when those demons do start walking around Silvermoon and it actually noticeably becomes evil, then I'll retract my opinions of yours. Of course, I guess those evil evil lush tree's and white marbled walls are [i]blatantly[/i] evil. Oh and Eversong woods, man that [i]totally[/i] smacks of evil. Your either a troll, or bitter about something, either way, get over it.--Nurizeko

Blood Elves aren't pure evil, go through their quests and see the truth about them, many feel sorrowful and regretful about what has happened, they have to kill beasts that we're once tame and freindly to them which saddens many BEs, they we're also freindly to some treants and although they didn't want to do it they we're forced to kill them, blood elves are really more "good" then "evil". Hordesupporter 19:14, 12 April 2007 (EDT)

• Restoring the sunwell would likely reduce the evil of the blood elves, for a couple of reasons. First, with a large source of magic available again to them, the blood elves would not have ot use demonic magic to satisfy themselves, avoiding that problem. Seconds, being in a constant hunger for magic has probably made the blood elves more irritable, mean spirited, desperate, quick to fight, etc. (Just see anyone who hasn't eaten in awhile, slept in awhile, etc. for a similar effect.) Giving back a source of magic would reduce these qualities in the blood elves, making things like the harassed citizens, Uther's tomb defiling, and other such events less likely. The only issue here is that resotring the sunwell might make the blood elves less effective against the scourge, and they would loose some racial skills with magic that came from not having it, but these problems could probably be overcome.Minionman 01:53, 1 June 2007 (UTC)

• • Ok, this looks like just a pathetic attempt by Angry Ogre to bash on the Blood Elves again, since no one is discussing the old threads about this. To get onto topic, Anveena Teague, based off of what we see in the Sunwell Trilogy, is good. End of Story. Meneldir#

I think it is clear to anyone who has played warcraft 3 and knows the lore behind warcraft to see that blood elves are not evil there where part of the original alliance when they where known as high elves when the 3rd war came and arthas laid waist to there home city and killed 90% of the high elves they changed there name to sin'dorei in honor of there fallen becoming blood elves also the scryers are a big tell that the blood elves in outland are shocked that keal has taken sides with demons where as the blood elves left on azeroth have no idea that he has joined forces with the demons and if they knew would turn there backs on him see the blood elve lore for full info plus being a warlock is not siding with demonic beings its bending them to your will to serve a purpose a warlock does not befriend a demon minion thats why its called a minion and not a friend or pet and to pull up a fact from above about blood elves eyes glowing id like to remind people that night elves eyes also glow KagatoKagato 17:48, 26 March 2008 (UTC)

Alright people got off topic here, this isnt a discussion of Blood Elves its about Anveena Teague. That being said i had to roll my eyes at the Affiliation "Horde" (Typical of this site and its favoritism twards Horde) No where does it point out or even suggest for that matter that she has any affiliation with the Horde other then being the Sunwell and thus "Associated" with the Blood Elves. Anveena isnt just the sunwell however as pointed out by Korialstrasz in the book Ghostlands. She is both the Sunwell and more..and if you read the books its obvious shes developed mortal like characteristics. She chose to remain in Quel'thalas to begin healing and therefor help the Blood Elves restore their kingdom. But aside from that she has had no and i mean no interaction with the Horde. If anything shes had more interaction with Humans and the Blue's then she has members of the Horde (save for Blood Elves). All logic points to her being Neutral/Unaffiliated as she is her own person and has the freedom of any other mortal in making her own decissions. HighElfSorcerer (talk)User:HighElfSorcerer