Talk:Archimonde

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Contents 1 Old gods 2 Illidan 3 Disturbing Rumors 4 Size Changing 5 Sword? 6 Question 7 Screenshot 8 Encounter 9 Archimonde lies 10 Archimonde's skin colour 11 Archimonde vs Illidan? 12 Name Meaning? 13 Archimonde's corpse.

Old gods

Could there possibly be an unknown 'alliance' between the old gods and the Burning Legion? It was all the old god's plotting that led everything to astray-the dragons especially. I read somewhere that the old gods 'planned' the invasion of the Burning Legion.

--If you read the War of the Ancients Trilogy, it's all in there. The simplest way to put it would be to say, The Old Gods set things up in Azeroth so it would be an apealing target for the Legion, and hoped to dupe everyone to get their way. -- BestBrian

I think the Old Gods believe that they are the rightful rulers of Azeroth (which is kinda true... they were there first). So they are doing everything in their power to try and turn it into the chaotic wasteland that they once ruled. Or something. But then stupid 40-man raids start coming along and killing them, foiling their diabolical plans. --Adonzo 17:32, 15 June 2006 (EDT)

For that last sentence you win internets. Super Bhaal 09:31, 17 February 2007 (EST)

The Old Gods and the Legion are independant- they set up the War of the Ancients so they could be freed- that's their goal: dominion. Whether that means just over Azeroth (or all the worlds) remains to be seen, but that's a clear difference from the Legion's goals. The Burning Crusade's goal is to eradicate life and order and to absorb magic- which would include the elementals that serve the Old Gods. --Ragestorm 17:16, 16 June 2006 (EDT)

Well, If I remember correct, Old gods was fought but the Titans, and the Titans banished them all to the Twisting Nether ? When Sargaras went lonatic, he tried to undo all the Titans work and freed a lot of evil that he earligere have banished..

Could there be a chance that the Old Gods have been freed too ? And somehow is trying to get back at Azeroth too ? --Azshara 14.dec.06

Impossible. the Titans imprisoned the Old Gods beneath Azeroth.--Ragestorm 09:13, 14 December 2006 (EST)

AND AFTER sargeras went astrayScorpx3 00:33, 5 July 2007 (UTC)scorpx3

This is quote from War of the Three Hammers (230 years before Warcraft I): "Ragnaros the Firelord, immortal lord of all fire elementals, had been banished by the Titans when the world was young. Now, freed by Thaurissan's call, Ragnaros erupted into being once again. Ragnaros' apocalyptic rebirth into Azeroth shattered the Redridge Mountains and created a raging volcano at the center of the devastation. The volcano, known as Blackrock Spire, was bordered by the Searing Gorge to the north and the Burning Steppes to the south. Though Thaurissan was killed by the forces he had unleashed, his surviving brethren were ultimately enslaved by Ragnaros and his elementals. They remain within the Spire to this day." Imo only Old God freed is Ragnaros,and his isnt freed by Sargeras or Burning Legion,but who knows what Sargeras and his Burning Legion did,that still remains unknown.

Illidan

I want to raise the question: why do we need a section on Illidan in here? It's not like everyone who visits this page is given the impression that Archimonde was killed by Illidan. --Ragestorm 07:34, 17 June 2006 (EDT)

Given that this is WoWWiki and not IllidanWiki, I'd like to remove this Illidan section, unless there are major objections. --Ragestorm (talk · contr) 12:01, 20 June 2007 (UTC)

Disturbing Rumors

What is the deal with the disturbing rumors section? I've never heard anything to imply that anyone in the Warcraft universe suspects that this is the case. In fact, until this section was added, the only assumption I had ever heard was that the Old Gods were creating the Nightmare.GenMalSis 18:20, 25 November 2006 (EST)

I was wondering the same thing. If no one defends it within the next few days, it should be removed.--Ragestorm 18:29, 25 November 2006 (EST)

It's a fan speculation going around. I see no reason to remove it since it's listed as a rumor.--Grid 18:30, 25 November 2006 (EST)

I was under the impression that Furion had already identified the cause of the Nightmare as one of the Old Gods.--Ragestorm 18:33, 25 November 2006 (EST)

I don't think so. In his conversations with Remulos he's still not sure what it is, and then he goes on to discuss his brother.--Grid 18:41, 25 November 2006 (EST)

Look at Old Gods speculation. Admittedly, they don't reproduce the exact quote, but it sounds adamant to me. It also works better lore-wise for it to be an Old God than Archimonde.--Ragestorm 18:47, 25 November 2006 (EST)

Who said that? I find that theory fishy because the Emerald Dream was created AFTER the Titans defeated, killed and imprisoned the rest of the Old Gods. I was present for two AQ gate openings on two servers and I don't recall him saying anything about that.

However in Malfurion's conversations with Remulos he talks about the green dragons falling prey to "old whisperings". This could be a connection to the Old Gods who were called old whisperings by Deathwing, and it could not. But given Archimonde's proximity to the tree upon his death and the major role the character has, I think it still has a right to stay there until we know for sure.--Grid 18:58, 25 November 2006 (EST)

Fair enough. Either of them entering the Dream is a little fishy, to be honest. Then again, we all thought Archimonde was completly obliterated, only to find his bones. --Ragestorm 19:11, 25 November 2006 (EST)

Size Changing

We know Archimonde grew taller as he approached the world tree. In Warcraft 3 I think this was just an image error. However, I'm wondering if he grew due to his power to change size or, as other sources have told me, that he grew in size due to the power of the world tree and the size was just a way to show him getting more powerful----User:Noman953 22:34, 25 January 2007 (EST)

In-game he gained size as he leveled up and the camera angles changed. He is consistently described as "colossal" and WotA explains his size-alteration power in great detail. It's the simplest and probably best explanation. --Ragestorm (talk · contr) 23:36, 24 January 2007 (EST)

Sword?

In one of the RPG books-- I think it was the first edition one --there was a claim/implication that Archimonde had a sword. Does anyone have anything to back this up? His Shadows & Light entry doesn't credit him as having anything but lots of annoying magic... Super Bhaal 09:34, 17 February 2007 (EST)

Never heard of it, though I'd have to double-check WotA. It could, of course, not be an actual sword, but some sort of simulacrum of a sword, like an elemental. -_Ragestorm (talk · contr) 09:37, 17 February 2007 (EST)

No need to double-check. It turns out in Monster Guide that Archimonde gave Lord Kezzak a really, really big sword and the writers of MG were probably sifting through the older books looking for things to add pme night and went, "Hey! Archimonde's sword. This sounds neat. Let's make it into a magical item guys!". Then again, I could be wrong. --Super Bhaal 22:30, 19 May 2007 (UTC)

That would explain it. In the Diablo universe, the archangel Tyrael is usually associated with the angelic Runeblade he forged, Azurewrath, even though Izual wielded it. --Ragestorm (talk · contr) 00:41, 20 May 2007 (UTC)

I recently found out that Archimonde's sword is mentioned in an adventure hook in the first Warcraft RPG book. You were right the first time. --Austin P 22:38, 23 June 2007 (UTC)

Kazzak has it.--SWM2448 00:41, 29 August 2007 (UTC)

Question

Earadar such as Archimonde are warlocks : yet draenei have no affinity for demonic magic. Did they originally then turn from it after the loss of Argus and the war, or was it given to Archimonde / sergeas etc by the Legion ?

One of the magicks apparently imparted by Sargeras. --Ragestorm (talk · contr) 10:43, 27 February 2007 (EST)

It's also worth noting that, while we have no mention of the Eredar working with decidedly Fel magics, it mentions in many places that they were very accomplished in the use of the arcane. In most situations in which arcane has been used, it is also mentioned of it's easily corrupted nature. I think that most scholars of Azeroth would consider Fel, or at least some "shadow" magic to be a branch of arcane. Regardless of its nature, the aptitude the Eredar showed for arcane studies no doubt proved equally valuable in the hands of Sargeras, and his demons, lending them to the pursuit of more destructive, and arguably more powerful arcanum. NocturnalKaos (talk) 22:43, 12 May 2008 (UTC)

Screenshot

In that shreenshot for his apperance in TBC, his is size absoultly massive? or is that just an illusion from the camera angle? Hordesupporter 21:45, 15 March 2007 (EDT)

Since Archimonde is seen to be almost as tall as Nordrassil's trunk, I'd say abolutely massive. --Ragestorm (talk · contr) 22:32, 15 March 2007 (EDT)

Why does Archimonde look exactly as all other Eredar? There's no uniqueness at all in him, which is kinda sad. There's not much except the colour that's similar to his appearence in Warcraft III. --Odolwa 23:50, 29 August 2007 (UTC)

This is even more dreadful for me. I'm currently making a WoW motion picture that uses a regular red Eredar model to represent Kil'Jaeden, but now it is almost SURE that Kil'Jaeden will have a new model, so we gotta wait for it... BLIMEY. The movie has to be out for Christmas and we don't know when the PTR will be out.--K ) (talk) 08:21, 30 August 2007 (UTC)

Encounter

This is how I believe the fight against Archimonde will happen.

Archimonde spawns in and aggros the raid group.

Once Archimonde's health has depleted his health restores to maximum.

Malfurion spawns in and the raid is tasked with defending Malfurion while Malfurion is busy summoning wisps (the wisps are the only thing that can damage Archimonde's second health bar, all other attacks get a "immune" effect)

Malfurion spends the entire battle perforiming a channel spell that summons wisps, he summons them in groups of 5 and it takes 200 wisps to fell Archimonde.

If Archimonde attacks Malfurion it will interrupt Malfurion's summon and rather then go back to summoning he will attempt to attack Archimonde on his own.

The raid has to pull Archimonde back a bit making Malfurion run back to his old position and start summoning wisps again.

Archimonde will sometimes perform an AoE stun that stuns all raid members, after which he goes after Malfurion, tanks must get him off of Malfurion as quickly as possible.

Once Archimonde is dead Malfurion will continue to assist you throughout the rest of the instance. (Considering the other two cavern instances, logic suggests that the final boss will be a infinite dragon.)

My reason for having the raid fight alonside Malfurion is balance, in durnholde keep we're fighting alongside Thrall, a member of the Horde, why then, should we not be able to fight alongside an Alliance legend too? Hordesupporter 20:54, 10 April 2007 (EDT)

Please give me your opinion on my idea, I appreciate any comments. Hordesupporter 01:08, 14 April 2007 (EDT)

Archimonde lies

I have the impression that Archimonde's quote, when destroying Dalaran, is utterly false. How the hell can he say that the powers of the Humans and the High Elves were stolen to the Legion ? They have inherited these powers from the Highborne and, earlier, from the Well of Eternity. Uncorrupted magic comes from the Well and the Well was created by Eonar and Norgannon. The Legion has no rights over Dalaran, and Archimonde's statement seems abusive to me.--K ) (talk) 16:18, 15 April 2007 (EDT)

Sargeras by the very nature of being a Titan also makes him a proginator of arcane magic, in a way. He is the one that gave much magic to Archimonde. So in a way idea that the arcane magic "was stolen" from the Legion, or rather from the "Titans" is a POV. Although it might be said that Sargeras originally stole magic from his own brethren, ;).Baggins 16:21, 15 April 2007 (EDT)

Well, I think we can't say Sargeras had "arcane magic". The only arcane-mastering races he's corrupted were already familiar with arcanes, and didn't learn much that way from him.--K ) (talk) 18:12, 15 April 2007 (EDT)

In Rise of the Horde, we learn he gives Eredar, "more power". Even fel magic has its ties to the arcane, and arcane can lead to corruption just like fel magic. Unlike the game, in lore, Frost, Fire, Fel and a few others are all types of arcane magic. Arcane is not a seperate type of magic, but rather the overall category that many types of magics fall into. So a warlock for example is just as much of an arcanist, as a mage, or a necromancer. Shadow is interesting in that in game it represents both divine shadow spells, and fel spells, depending on the class.Baggins 18:31, 15 April 2007 (EDT)

"Power" could mean "political" and "military" power. Or just plain "destruction" powers. Why would Sargeras have chosen the most arcane-mastering races to serve him ? For the different ingame schools of magic, I say : game mechanics, only. The categories are based on the effects of spells, not on their lore origin.--K ) (talk) 20:17, 15 April 2007 (EDT)

The book was very specific in pointing out it was arcane powers. That they would learn answers to mysteries and gain mystical powers they never knew before. In a relative sense, Eredar were rookies/novice/amateur, when it came to magic, Sargeras was a master, Sargeras promised to give them hidden knowledge of magic that he knew, and that they didn't. He would answer long time mysteries that the Eredar had. Velen found out that this increase of knowledge of magic would also have a price, it would physically change them making them larger, red flesh, and burning blood. Archimonde and Kiljaeden even discuss this later in the book. Of course, the ingame categories are gameplay. In the lore several of the categories are types of the "arcane", others part of the "divine", rather than just being seperate groups.Baggins 20:38, 15 April 2007 (EDT)

Ok, I guess. So rather than a lie, it's an outrageous speculation by Archimonde ?--K ) (talk) 06:34, 16 April 2007 (EDT)

Speculation and/or his point of view. - Dark T Zeratul 07:54, 16 April 2007 (EDT)

Zeratul is right; from Archimonde's point of view, the Man'ari Eredar are the natural masters of magic. Therefore, anyone who works magic on an eredar-touched world without eredar consent "... in their arrogance sought to weild our fire as their own."--Ragestorm (talk · contr) 10:53, 16 April 2007 (EDT)

That comforts me. They're not plain evil, they are also mad.--K ) (talk) 11:51, 16 April 2007 (EDT)

Only insofar as your people felt they could rule Indochina, or that my people felt they could rule India. Think of Archimonde as an imperialist.--Ragestorm (talk · contr) 10:49, 17 April 2007 (EDT)

Um, that's hard to acknowledge, but yes, somehow.--K ) (talk) 11:04, 17 April 2007 (EDT)

Archimonde's skin colour

Uh, I know this is a bit of a silly question, but does anyone happen to know why Archimonde is the only Eredar warlock with blue skin? -- Durbathuluk 1324, 11 June 2007 (GMT)

As opposed to what color...? Red? Pzychotix 12:26, 11 June 2007 (UTC)

Prince Malchezaar has blue skin also. Don't think it really means anything. Pzychotix 12:30, 11 June 2007 (UTC)

Blue. no, REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEED *falls*--K ) (talk) 12:51, 11 June 2007 (UTC)

Yeah, most Eredar warlocks have red skin except for oddballs like Archimonde and now that you mention it, Prince Malchezaar. Well, just something I was wondering about. XD --Durbathuluk 0727, 2 June 2007 (GMT)

I see grey not blue in hios picture o_0 (Navras 03:22, 4 July 2007 (UTC))

That's the lighting and image quality. Have you even played Warcraft III? Actualy, Archimonde's skin is a greenish-blue. --Ragestorm (talk · contr) 12:56, 4 July 2007 (UTC)

They describe it as blackish-blue in The Demon Soul. I can see it in WC3, but I'm not sure those aren't just shadows. --Austin P 16:05, 23 July 2007 (UTC)

Do you have a page number? Kirkburn talk contr 16:53, 23 July 2007 (UTC)

Page 50, when Archimonde is first introduced and is being described. --Austin P 17:20, 23 July 2007 (UTC)

Indeed, it says "his skin was black-blue". Kirkburn talk contr 17:47, 23 July 2007 (UTC)

Archimonde vs Illidan?

I don't get it: Archimonde was one of the strongest beings in the WC universe. Illidan CAN'T be stronger than him but in WoW Illidan is far stronger than Archimonde. I wonder if there is a reason for this... - Moohdoo

Game mechanics?--Ragestorm (talk · contr) 21:11, 10 July 2007 (UTC)

"in WoW Illidan is far stronger than Archimonde" ... how does that make sense? They're both end-game bosses. Kirkburn talk contr 02:23, 11 July 2007 (UTC)

Actually on Privite Servers, Archimonde killed Illidan with 70% HP left-over...And would Archimonde's death actually more like count as a timed fight? Like

Malfurion Stormrage: You must deal 4.6 Million Damage and then Ill kill him for you...Like you weaken him enough??

As Ragestorm said, game mechanics. Fights are not just a case of who can do the most damage, and are certainly not designed for bosses to attack each other. Kirkburn talk contr 16:55, 23 July 2007 (UTC)

Name Meaning?

I think his name literally means "ruler of the world" in Greek or something. Can anyone confirm?—The preceding unsigned comment was added by Gimodon (talk · contr).

Originally in Greek and in most languages "arch" means "above", from the Greek active verb "αρχω" (I command) or its passive form "αρχομαι" (I begin). "Monde" means "world" in French, and derives from Latin "mundus" which has the same meaning. His name would then mean "Old as the world" or "Ruler of the world".--K ) (talk) 12:38, 25 October 2007 (UTC)

Or could it possibly mean above the world as in better then the world, or better then worlds? Which could also mean powerful, so maybe something like more powerful then worlds?   Mr.X8 Talk Contribs 00:54, 16 January 2008 (UTC)

Archimonde's corpse.

Why does Archimonde have a corpse? One there was a huge explosion, two Archimonde is a hero and heroes don't get corpses last time I checked.--The last Alterac 09:11, 12 January 2008 (UTC)

Legitimate question with the first: I'd hazard a stab at the fact that it was more an explosion of energy rather than an explosion of fire, as in something blowing up. Not mutually exclusive, I know.
As for the second one, that was game mechanics vs the death of a character. Which do you think is more important? --Sky (t | c | w) 09:20, 12 January 2008 (UTC)

"heroes don't get corpses"? I don't understand.--Odolwa 13:37, 12 January 2008 (UTC)

In WCIII, while most units fell over in a bloody pile, hero units just turned into souls or the like and floated into the air.--SWM2448 02:30, 16 January 2008 (UTC)

Oh please, that's just graphics. Of course a person gets a corpse if he dies, whether or not he's a hero.--Odolwa 13:04, 16 January 2008 (UTC)

Not unless there is a huge implosion with nitroglicarin. But then again a thew flakes of skin could count as a coarpse. --The last Alterac 07:46, 17 January 2008 (UTC)