Talk:Attack power
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Is there really no more advanced mathematics behind the AP to DPS except that DPS = WeaponDPS + AP/14 ?
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[show]nope Edit
AP is pretty straight forward in regards to DPS conversion.
Perhaps it's differant than a 1/14 conversion pre-level 60, though? Or past level 60? Then it might be a bit differant, but I havn't looked into that yet. In any case, the in-game tooltop pretty much spells out how much DPS your AP is, so it's pretty simple to find the conversion amount at any level by swapping in/out a single piece of equipment and checking the tooltip.
Conversions are _usually_ pretty simple as far as math goes.
Merged in content Edit
I've modified the hunter attack power formula because it had an error in it (20 was subtracted twice).
ZG Enchants, correct? Edit
"+28AP from Death's Embrace Head & Leg ZG enchant does not count as RAP either." Is this statement true? I've never heard that before, but I cannot confirm this. --Matt 18:30, 1 February 2007 (EST)
I do not this is correct, unless the enchant (before applying to item) states "+28 Melee Attack Power" ... otherwise, all Attack Power converts to Ranged Attack Power unless otherwise specified or in temporary spell buffs such as Battle Shout. --User:Orz! 18:45, 1 February 2007 (EST)
Hunter RAP formula Edit
Formula is given as "AP = Character Level + Agility - 20". Else where I've seen "AP = Character Level*2 + Agility - 20". But for my hunter, what I'm seeing is AP = Character Level*2 + Agility - 10. Level 70 hunter with no gear on, 153 agility. 153 Agility is tooltiped as giving 143 AP (agility -10). Total attack power is 283 = 70*2 + 153-10. I am changing the article. Please confirm or refute formulas. Aidan 02:21, 10 April 2007 (EDT)
- The formula given for a Hunter is "RAP = (Character Level x 2) + Agility - 10" not AP. As for AP its "AP = Strength + Agility + (Character Level x 2) - 20". The difference between RAP and AP for a Hunter seems to be that for RAP its only -10 and strength is not included as with Hunter's AP formula.
- It also doesn't make sense that 1 AP = 1 RAP as AP is using Strength as well within the Algorithm but RAP only uses Agility, thus 1 AP can not be 1 RAP. Unless all the differences in the formulas between RAP and AP are completely wrong as listed on WowWiki.
- According to the formulas listed on WowWiki, regarding AP and RAP the following would be true if you have +14 Agi and +28 Strength in an item on a lvl60 character, again assuming the information on WowWiki for AP and RAP are both correct:
- For AP -- > 28+14+(60x2)-20 = 28+14+120-20 = 142 AP
- For RAP --> (60x2)+14- 10 = 120+14-10 = 92RAP
- So, how can 1 AP again be equal to 1 RAP if STR is only included in the AP formula and not in the RAP formula. Again, this is all based on the formulas presented on WowWiki, which off course could be completely wrong after all.
- In addition the other statements listed on this page are even more confusing.
- 1 AP = 1 Ranged Attack Power (RAP)
- It can't be that 1 AP does equate to 1 RAP if the formulas are different for AP and RAP !!
- Items that provide raw Attack Power contribute this amount to Ranged Attack Power as well as melee.
- Again, if AP is differently calculated than RAP than raw AP can not be the equal amount in RAP but more likely that 40 raw AP woudl equate to something like 25 RAP (This is based on the percentage difference between the above sample results of 142 AP to 92 RAP !!
- I think items that give AP should say "Increases AP and RAP by XX" instead of just "Increases AP by XX", and the AP you gain from STR has to be seen as melee AP only. Winterchild 12:18, 4 October 2007 (UTC)
- +28AP from Death's Embrace Head & Leg ZG enchant does not count as RAP either.
- Either,... ? so far the page stated that 1 AP is 1 RAP and that raw AP also applies to RAP so why does the above sentence end with "does not count EITHER" ??
- This is very confusing and a lot of information between this page and the Attack Power page don't seem to add up correctly !!
More merged stuff from Formulas:Attack Power Edit
Ok i realy like the Attack power table at the top. I think that this kind of table should also be on all the +* ratings page (ie crit, defense) to show how much each class gets from the particular rating. I of course have no idea how this table was created, but if somone can point me in the right direction i'll do my best to make the mentioned changes. Considering you can just armory someones stats and chuck some values in a calculation to figure them out it shouldn't take long. --bladeScythe 20:28, 13 March 2007 (EST)
I'm missing 192AP!
OK, I did the formula for the STR & AGI and got 550AP. That's correctly reflected in the white number on my paper doll when I mouse over AP. However, I added up all the +APs from all my equimpment (almost all "of the Bandit" stuff) and I should have a bonus of 441AP! According the the paper doll I'm only getting a bonus of 249AP! For a total of 799AP instead of 991AP!
What's going on? Also, I've noticed that whatever equation blizzard is using on the paper doll is very inconsistent! By moving my daggers back and forth my attack power can change a point or two up and down when the same equipment is in the same slots!
Is there some kind of cap around 800AP?
Thanks,
-iamdeadfish
To answer my own question... it turns out that all "of the Bandit" gear is bugged right now. It's causing the missing AP & Calculation wackyness. I'm thinking about posting this to the bug list... if I can think of a better way to say "wackyness." ;)
--Iamdeadfish 13:29, 6 February 2007 (EST)
A lot of details are missing from this table. Rogues, hunters and shamans should all have the (+level x2) bonus. Warriors have (+level x3). I can't check the paladin numbers because I have no paladin. So I'm about to adjust the formulas... Only, I don't know how. How can I access the table to edit it?
Skrofler 14:44, 30 May 2007 (UTC)
- At Template:Tables:AttackPower Pzychotix 14:50, 30 May 2007 (UTC)
- Changed Rogue to match...the other changes had already been made KnightSilent 22:44, 18 July 2007 (UTC)
Put equations into a table form with icons, similar to mana/5 page. Cat form was incorrect, I corrected it (agillity is now properly included in attack power). This was confirmed both in game and from other "attack power" pages in wowwiki. - Maqifrnswa
The formula for Druids is definitely correct since I checked the stats. I will double check Paladin tonight. - Varsas
By stating:
"Note: These formulas do not seem to be accurate"
Do you mean the formulas following that bullet point?
- Pilsner
Actually...I think all formulas, above and below that notice, are good. I just checked with my 60 warrior. Correct. 60 hunter...correct. Forgot to check for my hunter, but for my warrior, DPS added per second from attack power comes out to a 14.0066 ratio. I'd call that accurate :) --Moof 16:56, 10 May 2006 (EDT)
I went ahead and removed the comment- no proof was offered, no alternates, and everyone else seems to agree that these formulas are accurate.
I don't believe the druid ones are correct for cat form, as I am pretty sure strength is a modifier(hence the HoTW talent). I'll see if I can verify this tonight.
- We may want to indicate that attack power does not scale in the same way for mobs as for players. See http://forums.elitistjerks.com/viewtopic.php?id=7249, which I've copied below in case the original data is lost.
(begin post) A few of us in guild have been discussing exactly how much demoralizing shout the like works; this thread gave a little hint about how that it might be a % dps reduction, but no real parses to back it up. So we did some testing:
Methodology:
Beast lore is a hunter spell that allows you to see the perinent stats of any beast. These stats include ac, hp, and most importantly their unmitigated damage range.. Using this, we won't actually have to spend time parsing against mobs to figure this out, we can just beast lore everything and see.
There's basically four spells that all reduce -atk (demoralizing, screech [owl pet skill], scorpid sting, and vindication), and one that obviously increases it (cor). We tested by using various combinations of cor scorpid and demoralizing (ie no vindication). In some cases, screech was tested instead of demoralizing, and the change was interpolated for demoralizing (by multiplying by 204 / 100). I tested to make sure that this interpolation is valid vs. a plaguebat (did it with demoralizing, did it with screech, and found the interpolation matched).
Tests were done with untalented scorpid sting (68str/agi debuff) and demo shout with imp demo 5 (-208atk).
Code:
Name Level %ScorpRed %DemoRed %ComboRed
Starving Mtn Lion 24 29.17 29.17 29.17
Carrion Lurker 52 19.42 28.16 30.10
Monstrous Plaguebat 58 16.81 25.00 29.74
Razzashi Addler 60* 16.14 24.09 27.95
Razzashi Serpent 60* 16.13 24.05 27.92
This is about half the data I have, but it shows the interesting parts.
%ScorpRed is the % dps reduction from Scorpid sting. %Demo for demo, and %Combo for both Demo and Combo combined.
From the data a few things could be gleaned:
There is a cap of the effect at 30%. I have more uninteresting data of in-between levels (24-26 and 52-60) that all show that the %reduction of all effects combined cannot go above 30%. This is interesting, but not terribly surprising by looking at how pets work, roughly 30% of their dps is from their "Attack" value, the rest a base based on the mobtype. This cap does not seem to pertain to thunderclap/tf, as I thunderclapped a mob then demo'd it, and the mob's dmg range went down by the appropriate amount.
Demoralizing shout really isn't % based, but scales in some other manner. The lower spectrum of the parses are showing that demo won't drop dps more than 30%, because presumably that's "taking away more atk than the mob actually has". However the change from epl trash mobs to zg trash mobs shows demoralizing still giving a huge dps reduction, showing that it must scale in some other manner.
It has been suggested that raidmobs have fairly normal stats, and are just transformed via a "damage multiplier", and thus dmg reduction from -atk also goes through this dmg multiplier. This data seems to support it to some degree. However this theory also means that emps really aren't special, just we started noticing it here becuase 20% of 10bazillion (ubs) is a sizeable amount. Every mob tested so far exhibits this 20% melee dmg loss.
The obvious extension to the data would be to test demo/screech on The Beast, magmadar, and chromaggus. The formerly mentioned post says that antecdotally it works on Chromaggus, but using beast lore should be able to give a definitive answer. Unfortunately I have no plans to go anywhere near MC or BWL for the rest of the uh, century, so hopefully someone else can test these, as they can be tested basically mid-raid (beast lore is non-aggro, though it's range is fairly low and dogaggrorange is fairly high).
Some other things that I've found that I'm too lazy to post the data for:
Demoralizing shout and screech stack. Up to the 30% cap that is. I guess this was obvious already (since the two icons stack), but since I've never seen someone suggest screech or really demo shout for any of the "I'm getting one-shotted" threads (other than emps), I guess it's not something widely known.
Imp demoralizing shout is pretty huge. The -atk effects are linear (I tested this when testing the interpolation method), which means the dps loss is sizeable on any mob in which the cap does not play a role. For example a mob with 18% reduction via demo would have a 25% reduction with imp demo, that's kinda a big difference. I guess we knew this too, but again, not terribly widely known.
Also since the atk formula is linear, you can see that using curse of wrecklessness will increase dmg by a sizeable amount, but I guess we sorta knew that too.
Maybe all of this was all widely known already, donno. But atm there seems to be really no excuse for not having demo shout up on every mob, which is why we did these tests, to see if we need to start yelling at the warriors again. (end of forum post)
Heart of the Wild allows a druid in cat form to receive 2.4 AP per point of strength. -- this is probably outdated, with the new mechanics in patch 2.3RogerWilco 21 November 2007 (UTC)
Reword formulation? Edit
"Attack Power (AP) increases your base damage by 1 for every 14 attack power. For example, an AP of 28 will give you 2 Dmg. To convert attack power into weapon damage: [Weapon dmg+attack power/ 14] / Weapon speed."
* Correction: not 2 Dmg, but 2 DPS, there's a difference. Dagguh (talk) 11:29, 26 June 2009 (UTC)
Shouldn't we reword this explanation a bit? It's quite confusing. There is no word about, that the dps are meant by "base damage" or "will give you 2 Dmg". By the way :"[Weapon dmg+attack power/ 14] / Weapon speed." should be "[Weapon dmg+attack power/ 14] * Weapon speed" if the damage per hit (not per second) should be calculated here.
* To clarify: AP increases your BaseDmg (both MinDmg and MaxDmg) by (TotalAP * BaseAttackCooldown / 14). Dagguh (talk) 11:29, 26 June 2009 (UTC)
So I inputted the above formula for some reason it did not come out right. is that for a lvl 60 character; if so can someone help me with a formula for lvl 70.....Also it says 30 percent Cap on AP. At Lvl 70 what does that come out to be as far as total attack power agility etc.
* 30% cap is put on mobs, as 30% of their BaseDPS comes from their BaseAP. Dagguh (talk) 11:29, 26 June 2009 (UTC)
(just adding to the above comment) attack powers effect on dps doesn't scale inversely with weapon speed. Slow weapons get the same benefit as fast weapons from attack power as far as DPS goes.
[Weapon dmg+attack power/ 14] / Weapon speed, suggests that attack powers effect on dps diminishes as you use slower weapons this is incorrect.
Doesn't apply to spells, right? Edit
Am I right in inferring that AP only affects physical attacks and not spell damage?
- Yes. Attack power affects physical damage only. -- Dark T Zeratul (talk) 06:38, 20 July 2008 (UTC)
- Some Paladin spells benefit from attack power. I'm not sure about Death Knight spells. -- Gordon Ecker (talk) 05:58, 18 February 2009 (UTC)
Druid AP Question Edit
I'm looking at my weapon, Witch Doctor's Wildstaff, with 148.7 DPS. According to the formula on the page, I should have 1314 added attack power, since the article says it rounds down. However, the tooltip says 1315 added. So, does it round up or simply round? GameSageZB (talk) 04:09, 22 May 2009 (UTC)
Typo fixed Edit
DPS / DMG typo fixed. Dagguh (talk) 11:30, 26 June 2009 (UTC)