Talk: Comparison of Aldor and Scryer rewards

Noob alert?

Hmm i am a noob, i chose Aldor without checking the reward. Now I want to switch to Scryers. Does anyone know any effective way to gain back the rep. and also allow you to change side again? Please advice.

Rep with both?

Is there any information up about how to get rep with both (for the sake of obtaining both patterns, not both at the same time) or even if it is possible? --Eltari 22:42, 15 January 2007 (EST)

I don't believe so. Whenever you gain rep with one you lose rep with the other. Since your in Shattrah (sp) no one can attack you - or vica versa.

Actually, you should be able to switch. There's a questgiver for either side that will remain friendly to you in Shattrath. I forget their names, but the Scryers one is a BE hanging out with an Ethereal, memory serves nearby the Arrakoa tree-huts. She has you gather basilisk eyes. The Aldor one is at that clinic you should've seen on the tour. She has you gather spider venom glands. --Maenos 08:03, 16 January 2007 (EST)

They're both on the tour, actually, Aldor is the clinic lady, and Scryer is the one that says "I always watch what I say, I'm a Scryer" or something along those lines. --Gates 00:12, 21 January 2007 (EST)

Found the info I was after. It is on the Aldor and Scryer pages. You won't be able to get reputation with both at the same time, but it should be possible to get one then the other in order to pick up both patterns. (Check this out Tekkub, it is signature) --Eltari 22:49, 21 January 2007 (EST)

Patch 2.0.6 - "Players will no longer be given access to both quest lines following the Declaration of Allegiance to the Scryers or Aldor in Shattrath City." Ektoric 21:15, 23 January 2007 (EST)

I was under the impression this referred to the fact that Khadgar gave you both "go talk to the Aldor/Scryers" quests after choosing one. Has anyone verified whether or not the change affects these two questgivers as well? User:DarkRyder/Sig 18:22, 25 January 2007 (EST)

I went back and checked last night. Even though I went Aldor and am now Hated with the Scryers, I can still get a Scryer quest from Arcanist Adyria. Looks like they've set this up similarly to the Booty Bay vs. Bloodsail Buccaneers choice. User:DarkRyder/Sig 11:55, 26 January 2007 (EST)

Why is "Tank" listed for Aldor?

• Why is "Tank" listed for Aldor? I'd say a tank would lean more toward the Scryers.

Because the Aldor Plate piece provides Dodge, more Stamina and more Defense, whereas the Scryer Plate item provides Agility. Seems to me that Scryers is aimed at DPS plate wearers and Aldor is aimed at tanking plate wearers, no? There's a reason the word "generalizations" was used, not everyone will agree. And sign your posts damnit! User:Tekkub/Sig 00:19, 18 January 2007 (EST)

Personal opinion obviously, but I would say that ignoring professions Aldor is the clear choice for Tank AND DPS warriors.Vindicator's Brand, good warrior tanking of DPS weapon vs Retainer's Blade, not so hot. Lightwarden's Band and Vindicator's Hauberk, one good for tanks one good for DPS vs Gauntlets of the Chosen, mediocre for both and terrible for PvP. Shoulder enchants I would choose the aldor one for both tanks and DPS though for DPS wether you prefer more crit or more AP depends more on the gear you have at the time.Darbad

It kind of depends on what your in-game goals are. If you're raiding and are in a semi-organized guild then you really shouldn't focus on the armor/weapon rewards or the professions. The armor and weapons are easily replaced by raid gear and your guild should be splitting factions intelligently to make sure that all the craftable items can be made. The only thing that can't really be replaced are the shoulder enchants. For a tank I'd go with the Aldor. Ailethon

I agree with all of your statements, Ailethon, except your conclusion. Ignoring rewards and professions, I'd lean toward the Scryers' inscriptions based totally on the higher Defense.--Fantastik 15:07, 27 January 2007 (EST)

Forget about the armor pieces...

As a tank, I reallly didn't consider the armor pieces at all when making my choice. The simple reality is that for most people, you will be replacing your gear with epic equipment at some point, so these rep rewards should have little impact on your choice. Your two main considerations should be your professions, and your desire for the sholder enchants. If professions are more important to you, then choose the faction with the better recipies. If the sholder enchants are more important, choose the faction that has the ones that you prefer. It's a tough choice, and there are a lot of factors to consider, not just the armor pieces. Heck, neither of the plate armor pieces has any sockets - so while they are 'OK' they are nothing special.

In the end, while the sholder enchants are nice, they aren't "OMG!" nice. With the new formulas, either one will work fine for a tank since a couple points of +def isn't going to make or break your gear layout. Remember, while the Altor enchants have less +def than the Scryer enchants, keep in mind you will also have 'resilliance' on your gear which will augment your ability to reduce your chance to be crit. With this in mind, you may want to stack on a bit more +dodge with the Aldor enchants.

ALDOR: At level 70, the +15 dodge will only give an extra +0.8% dodge, and the +10 DEF will only provide 4.1 points of defense.

SCRYER: At level 70, the +10 dodge will only give an extra +0.5% dodge, and the +15 DEF will only provide 6.25 points of defense.

In the end, tanks really don't get that great an enchant. Heck, one could say these enchants are on par with the ZG enchants. (although the ZG enchants are for leg/head)

So if we eliminate the armor pieces and ignore the profession recipes, you are just left with the enchants. In this case I would tend to agree that the Aldor enchants are just a wee bit better overall. However, don't let that be the deciding factor unless you are stuck with gathering professions and/or alchemy and engineering. Take a close look at the profession recipes before you decide. --Savant 06:57, 18 January 2007 (EST)

Heck, the argument can't even really be made for crafters. In most cases all that's provided are resistance gear. For these players any endgame guild will want both sets eventually. The shoulder enchants are both comparable, yes. The Blue versions contain the same stats with slightly different value. It seems that the Aldor stats are weighted slightly towards PvE and Scryer towards PvP, but not by enough that it is really a deciding factor.

Considering that there are NPCs in the Lower City with repeatables that allow you to change your choice, I think it's likely that most players will look at the equipment rewards against their current gear when they choose. Then later down the road, when bored at 70, they might switch over after getting full rep with their faction so they can get the other patterns, either for their guild or for their own profits in trade. There will probably be a decent number of players that just ignore the whole choice until their raiding guild needs crafters of certain resistance gears. User:Tekkub/Sig 07:30, 18 January 2007 (EST)

+AP has some nice benefits for [Shamanistic Rage] as well as scaling the rogue [Eviscerate], warrior [Bloodlust], and other stuff. is why i took Aldor anyway. User:CrazyJack/Sig 08:14, 18 January 2007 (EST)

Glyphs are the replacement for the ZG enchants btw : http://www.thottbot.net/?i=55138 User:CrazyJack/Sig 11:05, 18 January 2007 (EST)

Scryer rewards are effective for pve dmg casters as well.

I disagree with the idea that Aldor are necessarily more pve oriented. The Scryer's Bloodgem alone is an awesome pve trinket, especially for a warlock. 35 spell hit is at least +3% at 70; combined with the ToEP effect and Neth's Tear in your other trinket slot you would be adding impressive raid abilities to two of the more underused slots.

Heck, I'm picking Scryer just for that one item, although as a destruction Lock the shoulder enchants are equally suited to me.

It's a nice trinket, but there are numerous variations on the ToEP theme throughout Outland, almost all of them with high hit or crit ratings added.

Scryer vs Aldor enchants for casters

For classes/specs (like Affliction Warlocks, Shadow Priests, etc.) who aren't crit based Aldor's enchants are better for PvE and PvP I would changing the text of "Players seeking PvE shoulder enchants" and "Players seeking PvP shoulder enchants" to something more general like "+Damage Primary,+crit secondary" for Aldor and the reverse for Scryers. Just a thought.--Caidh 12:57, 19 January 2007 (EST)

They are generalizations for a reason. There's no way that everyone will agree on even the broad generalizations, let alone the specifics. That's what the talk page is here for, for everyone to express their thoughts on which faction to choose. The selections laid out in that table are just a mini guide, every player should look at all the items and make their own choice. User:Tekkub/Sig 12:48, 20 January 2007 (EST)

Craft Recipes

• I am not quite sure about this, but I think the Tailor-Recipes are mixed up

Aldoris healing, if ur tailor u get healing receipt and not spell dmg.

Also u get a nice healing staff(200+ healing i think) and stuff like that. In Scryer you get spell dmg on the tailor receipts so i think you messed this up

Uh, these were fixed two days before you posted this... and why can't people sign their posts here? *stab* User:Tekkub/Sig 13:00, 20 January 2007 (EST)

• Why on earth is there only one alchemy recipe and it's on the Scryer side?!?! I'm a DPS Hunter and everything else tells me I should be joining Aldor except for this lameness. Does anybody know if there will be other alchemy recipes eventually? Or is this IT? If so, it's totally lame... :Lynn

It's only one alchemy recipe. I doubt you'll die for it.--Sky 01:05, 23 January 2007 (EST)

I want it all... I want it all... and I want it now!

Concerning Healers (Paladins)

The recommended faction for healers is listed as the Scryers. This seems to be solely based on the rather nice Staff available, but do remember not all healing classes can uses staves - ie. Paladins. For a Paladin who wishes to focus on Healing, there does not appear to be any benefit to choosing Scryers, as the inscriptions are fairly balanced in terms of what a good Healerdin needs. --Alextrasza 13:05, 20 January 2007 (GMT)

Aye, both factions are fairly balanced for healers. The deciding factor for me was the staff, it has pure healing where all the other items are heal and damage, and thus lower values for healing. Thanks for pointing out that paladins can't use staffs, I didn't know that for one (I'm a hunter, everything has potential for me :) User:Tekkub/Sig 13:03, 20 January 2007 (EST)

So, safe to swap 'Healers' under Aldor for something like "Staff wielding healers" and adding "Paladins" to the Aldor list (in the executive summary). --Drolfeir 01:18, 21 January 2007 (EST)

Not really. In my opinion there is not much that paladins need from Aldor either. The only thing is that the shoulder enchants have more +healing, but Scryers have +healing (and damage) on their epic ring... in the end it is all up to each paladins individual preference, and, if they are crafters, if they want the plans for arcane or fire resistance. I think I'm going to go Scryers myself. --Efreeti 07:46, 21 January 2007 (EST)

I concur, I am stumped as to which to choose, for a paladin the factions are very balanced. For RP reasons I might choose the Aldor, but my final choice will probably be made by guild needs for Blacksmithing, we want to make sure we have at least one person of each crafter type allied with both factions so we can make all the resistance gear.

Possibly change "Healers" to "Staff wielding Healers" or "Healers except Paladins" and put Paladins in both columns ? --Alextrasza 09:00, 21 January 2007 (EST)

Personally unless you're not going to raid in this game it's a rather bad choice to go Scyer for a rare healing staff. As a Druid, I went with Aldor because + Healing is better than mana p/5s. If you don't want to raid sure, Scryer has a few nice pieces of gear for Paladin/Priest/Druid, but any raider is pretty much better served going Aldor for the enchants. Surrogate 15:07, 21 January 2007 (EST)

The way i see it, there are only four items that make the deciding factor for a Paladin. Based on what has already been said to which i agree, The only weapon you can use is the sword and you would hope to get faster one in my opinon for faster procs on your judgemnts so i threw it out of the equation and the shoulders are minor in there consern to me. Also i am an Alch/herb but not conserned about the firepwr potion enough to make my call solely on that.

Looking at it this way it appears to me that Aldor is balanced well for Ret and Proc but Scryer is better for Holy Spec counting on the Crit chance to reduce Mana Consumption with Ilumination.

  Aldor
          Lightwarding Band         (finger) +18 agil +27 stam & atk pwr 38 
          Medalion of Lightbearer   (neck) +16 stam +28 int +6 Mana 5 secs 

or

  Scryer
          Bloodgem                  (trinket) spell hit +32 Spell dam +150 & heal 280 
          Seer's Signet             (finger) +22 stam Spell crit +11 Dmg / Heal spells +33

That leaves me easily chosing Aldor exept for the fact that now i am tempted to respec holy all that extra crit looks nice :) hope this helps... you helped me an allowed me to simplify a otherwise daunting decision

~Jessitin~

How about for ret paladins. on the main page it lists us under scryer. but the poster above said aldor is balanced for ret paladins, so which one should i choose if i was a ret paladin?

~Spectrezh

You should look at all the items and make your own choice. This isn't here to give you an answer, it's to help you find your own. User:Tekkub/Sig 18:12, 26 January 2007 (EST)

Extremely Misleading..

Everything I've read in WoWWiki so far has been good reliable information. Fact, not opinion. This article has upset me greatly because I accepted the author's opinion as reliable fact. I know, it's my own fault, but can you blame me? Everything else on this site is true, why shouldn't this be?

I made the mistake of choosing to raise rep with the Scryers over the Aldor after reading this page, thinking that although the Aldor have spellthread, the Scryers would have more items for healers. This is absolutely NOT true, except for the one rare staff Template:Lrare. Now, I have to undo the reputation that I have gained/lost to switch my faction favor over from Scryer to Aldor, which is a pain.

Anyone who reads this article, please don't make the same mistake I did. Look at ALL the items, and think LONG-TERM. Don't follow this article.

~RavenDT

'Author' being extremely plural of course. You started off well, with reasonable comments, but finishing off with "Don't follow this article" was just stupid. If you think something is wrong or misleading, fix it! When an article is wrong one day it should mean that by the next day it is no longer wrong :) Anyway, I'm going to clarify the healing thing now. User:Kirkburn/Sig 05:27, 22 January 2007 (EST)

In the Quick Summary it says, more than once, that you should look at all the items before you make your choice. This article's intent is to provide a side by side comparison of the items both factions provide. If it's intent was to only make generalizations of which groups would pick which faction it would only have that first section. And if that were the case this article would truly suck. User:Tekkub/Sig 10:42, 22 January 2007 (EST)

As Tekkub says, you need to go through this yourself and gear up according to your own gear plan. Look, there are some pretty complex questions to look at. For that matter, the number of rewards that go to any particular class is pretty low. As a raider myself, the basic gear doesn't impress me since I'll get better loot very quickly out of the raid instances. Any competent guild will have crafters in each faction. So for me, it's the shoulder enchants. Is that something so dire that you'd get worked up over it?

Non-raiders may or may not find better loot in the instances or out of the PVP rewards. You should spend an afternoon with thottbot or one of its ilk and plan precisely what gear you'll want in each slot. The results may surprise you-- seemingly great items suddenly lose their luster when there's a nearly-as-good equivalent that's much easier to get and a far-better item that you can work towards. Not knowing your class, build, playstyle or skill I have no idea what you in particular would benefit from. Neither do the contributors who wrote this article, which is why their generalizations are salted so heavily with disclaimers.

Chrazriit 06:35, 23 January 2007 (EST)

Enhancement Spec Shaman

Im just gonna go in to 100% noob mode and ask: Does Enhancement Shaman count as "Damage dealing Warriors and Paladins" in Scryers -- D ♠ T ♣ C ♦  17:19, 23 January 2007 (EST)

Changes with 2.0.6

Players will no longer be given access to both quest lines following the Declaration of Allegiance to the Scryers or Aldor in Shattrath City.

from Blizzard Patch Notes in the Bug Fixes section. dparvin 08:55 PM (MST) 1/23/2007.

This only means that Khadgar doesn't offer the other allegiance quest after you sign on with one faction, correct? I know for a fact that you can still get the quest from the Scryer in the Lower City after you swear allegiance to Aldor.--Scrotch 21:02, 24 January 2007 (EST)

Yea the problem was after you chose the side you wanted both quests were offered. Naturally one would accept both and run onto a tier they were not welcome on. At least these hostile NPCs don't kill you... User:Tekkub/Sig 01:30, 25 January 2007 (EST)

Guild and table updates

I added (back) a tidbit about what to choose as different guilds following some discussion on IRC. It appears a reasonable comment. Also, I edited the table a bit to make it clearer that it's a hard choice for magic damage dealers, so LOOK AT THE ITEMS. User:Kirkburn/Sig 08:11, 24 January 2007 (EST)

Feral Druids are Aldor

I disagree with Feral Druids being listed Scryers, or Druids in general for that matter.

Aldor provides more + healing and more spell-damage for Moonkin, as well as Int across the board which increases Moonkin mana regen and spell damage. The exception is Scryer's Bloodgem. Seer's Signet and Medallion of the Lightbearer are both great exalted rewards. With that said, Moonkins have aggro issues currently. So crits and other forms of burst damage are not something a Moonkin is really after. Moonkins are looking for more spell-damage and regen so that they can have controlled DPS for longer periods of time while providing utility such as Insect Swarm and Fairie Fire, as well as the occasional de-curse or heal. Aldor rewards deliver this.

In PVP this is different, of course, with burst damage being king. Aldor items are still superior in that they provide this while maintaining the Int and spell-damage that a Moonkin also wants. This provides great across the board stat increase and viability with very very little sacrifice.

Aldor provides this as well for Restos which want + healing, not crit, Regrowth is already at a huge crit chance so making it larger base is what most focus on. Hand of Eternity, a boe crafted mace, along with a good offhand such as Windcaller's Orb from Cen Ex rep will replace Seer's Cane. With more + healing in Aldor otherwise, once again Aldor is a better choice.

As for Ferals, there is more Dodge, Agility, Stamina and AP. The Scryers is more focused on Crit damage which is inferior to a Cat druid as they gain DPS mostly through white damage - base increase. This can bee seen using Tangedyn's cat DPS calculator http://tangedyn.9tribes.net/cat-dps/catdps-calc/

Bears gain more dodge from agility as well, it is 1% dodge per 14.5 agility now. This is also not to mention the other benefits of agility, such as 2 AC per point and added crit etc, as opposed to simple +crit. Dodge is the bear form's new mitigation. Bear dodge will be approaching 40% at level 70. To coincide with this there are not major AC leather items in the tradition of MBB or GST. As a result, and with the change of the damage reduction formulae, bears AC% increase on items has been increased as well as the provision for agility increasing dodge substantially as mentioned above. So, bears need the stamina, and the agility to squeeze out the extra AC and dodge.

Another thing to consider are the Vindicator's Armor Kits from Aldor. Druids will be approaching non crit status speced with SOTF as bears and with more defense leather and defense items such as these shoulder enchants and the Aldor Vindicator's Armor Kits. SOTF makes this feasible and small pushes in stats such as these may push a tanking Druid into that status.

If one is approaching extremely high AP or extremely high AC then they may reconsider in order to gain that extra 0.2% crit. By the time this happens, it will be too late and I wouldn't doubt that there would be a new shoulder enchant that would make a switch an exercise rather than a reward.

In the end it is very slight, but is still there, and the shoulder enchants WILL be what we are ultimately aligned for as we progress past these rewards' viability. With current itemizaton in game, Aldor makes more sense for all Druids.

-Dejablue, Dalvengyr

I have to agree with the Melee/Tank Enchants part, but other than that, both factions have quality gear for druids, but nothing that cann't be easily changed by instance loot. IMHO Feral druids will be Aldor (enchants, not gear), while Healers will stay Scryer (early gear, later enchants), dunno for sure about Moonkins (looks like Aldor is best for Casters).--Avanmilton 08:57, 25 January 2007 (EST)

This argument is fine and dandy, except that FERAL DRUIDS ARE NOT MOONKINS --Derraie 11:39, 27 January 2007 (EST)

MBB GST SOTF ?? Please guys, do the effort to provide links to the items, not every reader is perfectly fluent with English item names and their abbreviate forms. I managed to find out GST : Ghoul Skin Tunic, and MBB : Malfurion's Blessed Bulwark, but I'm still clueless with SOTF. --Gronyon

SOTF is Survival of the Fittest, a feral talent that lowers chance to be crit by 3%, something that brings druids closer to warriors in terms of avoiding spike damage. --Dreamshine 18:58, 2 February 2007 (EST)

You sure that's not SOFT? Feral druids are soft and furry ^^ User:Tekkub/Sig 22:23, 2 February 2007 (EST)

Missing Aldor Tailor patterns

I added the 3 missing Aldor tailor patterns. Tailoring is heavily in favor of Aldor, because there are 5 Aldor Tailoring recipes and only 2 Scryer recipes.

It's just one more way that Cloth classes are heavily skewed towards Aldor.
Powerlord 15:59, 27 January 2007 (EST)

Enchanting?

What about the enchanting recipes? I am sure that I saw one side had healing to gloves, healing to weapon, and healing to ring (which I think you can only enchant your OWN rings so this is a big deal for healing classes). I dont see any info or if the other faction has dps enchants??

Last time I looked there were none available from the Shatt vendors. I hear that there are Aldor-Scryer outposts down south (is it shadowmoon?)... anyone know if there are vendors down that way? User:Tekkub/Sig 00:41, 28 January 2007 (EST)

Don't forget that Shattrath City is made up of four factions, rather than two. These enchants may have been on a Lower City or Sha'tar faction vendor. You only have to choose between Scryer and Aldor factions. Powerlord 15:59, 29 January 2007 (EST)

We may need to doublecheck those. Last time i looked (in beta), I think Lower City and Sha'tar had the same items at their vendor... but I wasn't really paying close attention. User:Tekkub/Sig 16:22, 29 January 2007 (EST)

In Beta, they had indeed, but now they're different. --Tinkerer 16:29, 29 January 2007 (EST)

Why is that table there?

I've looked at this page and the discussion behind it and almost every complaint here is because of that silly table at the top. People read it, take it as fact, ignore the warnings to check the loot and take it as written in stone. Anyone with half a mind should be able to draw their own conclusions on what side to go with by comparing the loots. Now we have this table where people are trying to say, my spec is better for this and that spec is better for that. Some thing as individualized as spec and stat focus is not something that can be split easily in two especially when the devs tried to make choices between the factions equivalent. Look at some of the entries in that table, classes appearing on both side, sometimes the same thing on both. So if it's so wrong that it needs revision why do we have it there. I'm going to delete it and tell people to compare rewards and choose for yourself. If you don't like it, change it back.