Good comparison. I agree with most except about lag. In my experience pallies are the least affected by lag because 1)good preload of threat by avenger shield, and 2)large proportion of threat comes from reflective skills. I remember at least twice that I accidentally alt-tabbed out to desktop during tanking. When I switched back to the game, the mobs were still hitting me and apparently my teammates didn't notice anything. :P WakemanCK 04:26, 17 February 2008 (UTC)
Minor change Edit
You might want to add a line to the table, and modify the 'disarm' line some... one line for 'disarm (by enemy)' and one for 'disarm (tank ability)'. Druids can't be disarmed, but can't disarm, either. Warriors can be disarmed, but can also disarm (like to reduce Attumen's damage.) Paladins, I don't know about.
Very nice table, though. --Azaram 11:53, 20 February 2008 (UTC)
About the effect of lag to different tanks Edit
Ok, I see your point of saying paladins are harder with lag, which was what I expected you would say. I can't say you are wrong, though the comparison is controversial overall. My latency is not very good with only 500ms on average. I always spam Holy shield one or two seconds before its cooldown ends (as should every tankadins), so the Holy shield downtime is about 0.5s/10.5s=4.8%. Not sure if you think this is significant. If someone latency is so bad with about 1000ms on average, the holy shield downtime is about 1s/11s=9.1%. Ok, this one is a bit too much.
On the other hand, as I had mentioned, paladins' threat generation is the least affected by lag. For warrior or druid tanks, I believe 1000ms latency is likely to cause significant handicap to their threat generation. (Ok, someone please correct me if I am wrong as I hadn't played a warrior or druid tank for a long time.) Which one is worse? A tank that can't hold aggro, or a paladin tank that is crushable in about 9.1% of time? This is the controversial.
Therefore, I suggest simply remove the row about effect of lag to different tanks. In fact, this comparison itself is not very useful. I don't think a raid leader will pick a druid or warrior tank but not a paladin tank because of the lag factor. If he does, the first thing the raid should do is find a new raid leader. WakemanCK 06:48, 24 February 2008 (UTC)
RE: About the effect of lag to different tanks Edit
That is a cogent argument, and I have no objections if you would like to remove the lag entry. It could mess up the color formatting though, so you'll have to watch for that. :) Flashbulb 25 Feb 2008
RE: Off Tank in Single Tank Encounters Edit
While I agree that a paladin in equivalent gear can heal quite effectively, after a certain point, a raid can have "too much healing." However a raid can never have "too much DPS" which makes both an OT warrior and OT paladin more useful as DPS in single-tank encounters (where the healing has already been covered)...even if thy both provide much poorer DPS as off-specs. Many have made the argument that OT warriors are less poor as off-DPS than OT paladins. Flashbulb 25 Feb 2008
- I can only say both prot warriors and prot pallies have pathetic dps when not getting hit. I dare not comment on which is more pathetic. :P
- Though whether there will be too much healing power depends a lot on the raid composition and the gear level of the raid. E.g. extra healing from the prot pally probably won't help much for a Kara farming group with 3 healers, however, it will be significant for a Nightbane fight with only 2 healers, or a ZA progression group with 3 healers. WakemanCK 07:19, 26 February 2008 (UTC)
More tweaks Edit
- What is the 'demon' line for? I (Azaram the druid) can fight demons as well as anyone else...
- Almost no mana burn type abilities work on non-caster druids. (Netherspite's green beam does drain and lower our mana invisibly, though. I got stuck in caster form in one fight while dpsing during the green beam, couldn't switch to bear to take the red one for a while).
- And I'm not sure about the mind control thing. I know that I am suceptible to things like the Baroness's mind control in undead Strat. (I once got controlled, ate the party, then stood there controlled for another ten minutes before she let me go.) The link is to the priest ability, which doesn't seem relevant to tanking... --Azaram (talk) 10:48, 21 May 2008 (UTC)
- Paladin tanks have a slight threat advantage for demon and undead bosses because Exocism produces a lot of threat. I'll add the explanation.
- Basically the mana burn line was added as a disadvantage of paladin tanks. Druid and warrior tanks are not affected by it, so their slots were left blank.
- Well, now I really isn't very sure about the mind control to druid. I haven't tanked undead Strat as a paladin, but in some Outland instances, e.g. 1st boss in BF; Cabal Spellbinder in SL, I got mind-controlled. Are druid tanks immune to mind-control of those fights? --WakemanCK (talk) 07:44, 22 May 2008 (UTC)
- Ah, ok. Thanks for the explanations... I don't remember having been controlled in Shadow Labyrinth, but I have definately been controlled by the totems in Sethekk Halls. I've only been in Blood Furnace a couple of times, but I haven't been controlled that I remember. --Azaram (talk) 01:31, 25 May 2008 (UTC)
- During TBC, paladin tanks have the highest initial threat load because of Avenger's Shield, so DPS can basically start immediately after pull instead of waiting a few seconds for the tank to build up aggro. This is an advantage in DPS races as sometimes that few seconds of dps determine win or wipe.
- Nevertheless, I'm not sure if this advantage still exist now. --WakemanCK (talk) 05:53, 1 February 2009 (UTC)
Death Knights, perhaps? If they have a DPS spec, they should have a DPS weapon or 2 with them at all times, i know i do. When their target dies, they can simply swap weapons and to Blood Presence, or, in quick encounters, just presence. this drops the threat generation and gives them that 15% buff to damage done. Similar to a Druid in Cat Form, aye? --Tsavong 3:24, 5 April 2010 (UTC)