If you wish to discuss the subject itself, please use Talk:Dalaran/Analysis.
Non-editorial comments made here should be moved to the Analysis page.
Another easy way to get in
Anyone who has the Recruit-A-Friend reward mount X-53 Touring Rocket and the Cold Weather Flying skill can fly you straight up to Dalaran as a passenger. Once there you can activate the Teleport to Violet Stand Crystal and thereafter the Teleport to Dalaran Crystal will work for you.
Dalaran panoramic image
Don't know if this might be of any worth for this article but i've created a 360° pano of dalaran. You can find the source image here: http://static.bardiir.net/dp.jpg (6480x3240px | 4,5MB) FYI: Licensed under CC-BY Bardiir (talk) 15:24, March 23, 2010 (UTC)
This would be very cool if it was a place you could only visit as a mage, the same way that druids get their own "home".
There's no way they'd make it neutral, especially since the mobs protecting the bubble are hostile (for Horde at least, I don't know about Alliance). The Kirin Tor run Dalaran and are in the process of rebuilding it, so it will definitely make an appearance in the future. It should be pretty cool.. ;) --Anticrash 12:24, 8 Dec 2005 (EST)
- Well, it'd be cool if Mage's got a Portal to Dalaran spell. --Xmuskrat 10:51, 8 September 2006 (EDT)
Theyre not hostile to Alliance since I was omw to SM and we passed by, I tried to kill them so I could lvl before I entered SM. The casters just "hello" or something human NPC's say. (Mr.X8 22:29, 27 May 2007 (UTC))
- Mages can also get in, using the broken tower on the western side you can blink through the barrier. It is indeed completely empty.Geon 10:21, 29 November 2006 (EST)
Anyone have any screenshots of the empty inside of the city?--Sylvarios 17:49, 2 December 2006 (EST)
What's the source about Cross Island? I have themap of Azeroth from Warcraft II but Dalaran semms inland... N'Nanz 11:16, 30 Dicember 2006 (Rome)
- It's an island in the shape of a celtic cross in a cove of Lordamere Lake. The rebuilding of the Violet Citadel grew, so the shape of the island is obscured.--Ragestorm, Head Bookkeeper 09:49, 30 December 2006 (EST)
Wow. How many expiremental races and mercanaries are there in W3 lvl with Blood dude and Snake Woman are escaping from the racist dude. So far I know there was Ogres, Furbolgs, arachnids, cantuars, Pandaren, Centaur mercanaries, and Flesh Golems. Are there any other races in the dungeon? (Mr.X8 01:31, 27 May 2007 (UTC))
- Probably; I think Mur'gul and likely some sludges were there. That's not including the ghosts, or whatever human prisoners were there. Remember, it was the dungeon used to house both criminals and failed experiments- in an entire nation of wizards, that some pretty scary experiments. -- (talk · contr) 02:26, 27 May 2007 (UTC)
Thanx. Now, if the dungeons held the failed experiments, where did they keep their sucessful experiments? (Mr.X8 14:49, 27 May 2007 (UTC))
- In the city itself, or in widespread circulation: successful golem models, arcane towers, spellcages, etc. If the experiment was successful, it would have been put to use. -- (talk · contr) 18:10, 27 May 2007 (UTC)
The Dalaran wizards made Flesh Golems. Dont you think thats too necrotic (necromantic) for the wizards and for Dalaran, an Alliance town? And how come the Dalaran survivors, the remaining wizards there summon rock elementals and not water elementals. Wouldnt the earth elementals be too shamanistic for wizards to summon? (22:28, 27 May 2007 (UTC)) Where Dalaran is in WoW, somewhere I read there are necromancers with the wizards, elementals, soldiers, etc. That makes like no sense. Mr.X8 01:40, 2 June 2007 (UTC)
- Golem technology is actually created more through "elemental" magic or are simply mechanical "constructs" usually. Not necessasrily necromantic, just because they used dead bodies to create flesh based golems, doesn't mean they used necromancy to raise the flesh. Also flesh golems tend to be "alive" rather than "undead".Baggins 22:33, 27 May 2007 (UTC)
- Actually historically dalaran magi could summon any elementals from the elemental plane (note they are not the same elementals as the shaman elemental spirits, but much darker). Problem was the fire ones tended to be pure evil, water were the easiest to control. Wind elementals apparently lead to problems with mana surges. Those who use earth exist, but we don't know much about them.Baggins 02:26, 2 June 2007 (UTC)
--Sapphiron 22:18, 5 August 2007 (UTC)
why must the mages be bound by laws of magic tecnicalities. just saying, but the mages could use what ever magic the could and whos to stop them. even if they were to use some kind of "heritic's magic" big deal, right? say if they were to use so necro magic or shamanistic stuff would it actually matter. (also in WC3 the rennagade wizzard used purge and chain lightning both of which are shaman spells. although it may be lightnig based rather than shamanisum that lets them use it)
- Moral problems associated with necromancy ( how would you like it if someone pulled your family out of their graves and had them attack you? ). In Lord of the Clans Drek'Thar told Thrall that magic used by individuals such as mages, warlocks, and necromancers was known as a "spell"; magic used by a shaman would be called a "call". As for the creep units using spells restricted to certain classes in the MMO...I don't really have any explanation but the RPG books ( mages using lightning spells, priests using death coil ). --Super Bhaal 08:03, 26 August 2007 (UTC)
Well, scince Dalaran in the new Shat City for WotLK, do you think Dalaran went neutral, or that they just want help from both factions to help shield off the Blue Dragons? --Shinny 03:41, 4 August 2007 (UTC)
- The Violet Eye are already currently neutral to both sides, and they are a part of Dalaran. Although the mobs at the bubble are still hostile, maybe that'll change. --Raze 04:19, 4 August 2007 (UTC)
- The whole thing smells, Blizzard have simply Lorelol'ed Dalaran to Northrend and to heck with integrity. I look forward to them explaining whats going to take the place of the former kingdom of Dalaran, unless a flying city can afford to leave a population that is 3000 at best behind. Likewise what are they going to do with all the quests and stuff in the area when Dalaran buggers off?. The bubble?. Oh and the small fact Blood elves and Orcs especially are basically hated, and the entire horde hated due to Alliance membership. Ah Blizzard have just right royally cocked it up basically...
- Go do something unpleasant to yourself, would you? No doubt new NPCs will be created as placeholders in Dalaran's current location. Since the Kirin Tor have been mainly occupied with magic only, and Antonidas was known to be sympathic to the orcs, it is more than likely that the Kirin Tor are trying to reformat themselves to be what Malygos and the Blue Dragonflight should be: the guardians and maintainers of Azeroth's magic. To do that would require them to accept mages from all races, and both factions, which doesn't conflict with the lore. -- (talk · contr) 18:10, 4 August 2007 (UTC)
- I wouldn't use "sympathy" to describe Antonidas' stance towards the orcs. To me, it smacked more of scientific impassiveness. Back on topic, however, I'm forced to wonder (a question I've asked...almost everywhere since I heard about it): If Dalaran is being rebuilt/magically teleported/etc. to Northrend...what the devil is in the bubble in Alterac? (And for that matter, where in Northrend is Dalaran being shifted to?) --Joshmaul 18:38, 4 August 2007 (UTC)
- Dalaran is currently being rebuilt inside the bubble. When the expansion comes, the building will be complete, and Dalaran will be raised into the sky and fly to Northrend to better deal with the situation with Malygos' brood. What will be left behind might be simply an empty space, ready to receive Dalaran again should it return, or the magical bubble might remain on the ground, shielding the landing site from outside interference. --User:Varghedin/Sig 18:52, 4 August 2007 (UTC)
- From what i have seen, Dalaran will be shifted to north of Dragonblight. It was on a video where Blizz. developer was talking about it .--Axell 19:12, 4 August 2007 (UTC)
Hmmmmm, but still, taking the city and any reasonable chunk of the population with it essentially weakens any dalaranian presence in its former territory. If Dalaran was a fully thriving fully populated kingdom occupying some sedate little bit of territory thats easily defendable I could just about live with it. But again. Population of around 3000. Responsible for at least one other occupied town. On the borders between the living lands and the undead blight. Forsaken to the north and west, scourge to the north and east, defilers in Arathi. The situation wont be much better up in Northrend, hello, the continent is basically under control of the Lich King....LICH KING. Smacks of lorelol to me but thats just one opinion of many. --Nurizeko
- You're right about their holdings in Lordaeron, unless the Kirin Tor's numbers have swelled (which is vaguely possible- Rhonin is apparantly going to be present in Dalaran, which he wasn't before), they would be hard-pressed to keep their territory in Lordaeron. Of course, it could be explained that the Forsaken are now focusing all of their energies on stopping the Scourge, meaning that their war of attrition against the humans has been scaled back.
- In short, I think that the somewhat inadequate and rather pathetic term "lorelol" is reserved for something much more ridiculous. Now, if there is no good reason whatsoever for Malygos's insanity, that might be "lorelol." However, the effects of such a thing, such as Dalaran's moving location, would not be "lorelol," even if the the original event was. -- (talk · contr) 13:00, 5 August 2007 (UTC)
- Overall, agreed. My main concern really is what happens to the Kingdom of Dalaran without the City of Dalaran there. --Nurizeko
- From what there is to see in-game, there isn't much of a Kingdom of Dalaran (is it really a kingdom? it doesn't have a king does it?) beyond what's in the dome, so it's pretty much a city-state that would effectively also move if the city moved. Am I missing something? -- (talk · contr) 11:05 PM PDT 5 Aug 2007
Afraid so, your missing the Dalarian mobs, the Dalaraian presence in Ambermill, the dalarian mobs in the internment camp, the quests involving these mobs, so on so on...--Nurizeko
- On a tangent, what is the adjective form? I've been using "Dalarani," but I see you're using something else...-- (talk · contr) 12:32, 6 August 2007 (UTC)
- Oh, please! Don't tell me this is true :( Just because things aren't going too well in Iraq doesn't mean you move Washington DC to the area and make friends with Bin Laden!? Dalaran actually celebrates Hordefall every year! I think the term "loredétruiria" is better than "lorelol". Voluspå 21:47, 6 August 2007 (UTC)
Maybe Dalaran is right by undead because theyre also fighting them. I mean in their talk page, it says theyre at war with them. Mr.X8 23:06, 6 August 2007 (UTC)
- Rage, I would suspect that Dalarani is correct, as that's what I use. I've never heard of it as Dalarian. --Sky (t · c · w) 06:31, 7 August 2007 (UTC)
- Dalaran is an Alliance faction. The Horde have early quests to kill those Dalaran wizards in Ambermill! Of course, they're going to go ahead and make Dalaran neutral anyway, whether it makes sense or not, because they're too lazy to make two capitol cities for Horde and Alliance. I shudder to think how they explain that. No doubt they'll have some new Horde faction equivalent the Kirin Tor, and play them off each other like Aldor and Scryers. (cringe) -- AriochIV 23:50, 8 August 2007 (UTC)
Dalaran MUST be neutral. It is perfectly acceptable that Dalaran has become neutral after the Blood Elves of Silvermoon formed alliances with the New Horde and the Forsaken. The Mages of Dalaran only existed because of the Elves in the first place. The Kirin Tor would have to take into careful consideration that the Mages of Silvermoon were responsible for much of the administration and day to day affairs. Kael'Thas is a member of the Kirin Tor and both Silvermoon and Dalaran share responisbility for his actions. Also, a considerable portion of Dalarani population, including many of their most skilled mages were slain during the 3rd War. That would mean many of their own are now part of either the Scourge or the Forsaken. Ex-Kirin Tor Forsaken Mages. Also, it would appear that Silvermoon itself was rebuilt before Dalaran, meaning that the Horde's "Mage Town" has re-established itself before Dalaran (Alliance's Mage Town), putting them at a disadvantage should there be outright war. It would make aweful Political sense for it to extradite itself from Alliance-Horde conflict considering that the Kirin-Tor is now torn apart with considerable part of its population of both sides, and that direct involvement in the Alliance-Horde political scene would mean disintergration. Remember, Dalarani power is now but a mere shadow of its previous self. It may not be capable of making a come-back the same way Silvermoon did because of its significantly lower population and significantly smaller military might. All the Alliance Kingdoms in the immidiate area of Dalaran has fallen, and any possible reinforcements from Aerie Peak or Ironforge is a great distance away. Also remember, the High Elves are a dwindling faction, many either forced to become Blood Elves to survive, or risk becoming a Wretched. Not to mention, if it is true that Rhonin is now leading the Kirin Tor, his wife is Vereesa Windrunner. Technically, he is Sylvanas Windrunner's Brother-In-Law. That would mean the leaders of the Forsaken and Kirin Tor are related by the union of Rhonin and the Windrunner Family. Assuming that the random Blood Mage in Warcraft 3: The Frozen Throne, Slyvos Windrunner, does exists, that would mean there is a triple union between Undercity, Dalaran and Silvermoon. --Invin Dranoel 12:55, 29 August 2007 (UTC)
So does that mean the war between the Forsaken and Dalaran is over? I can't see Blizzard removing the quests involving killing Dalaran soldiers and invading their towns. Still confused on how they'll sort this all out. --Gadgetfingers 10:30 21 Sept 2007
Even though Dalaran was found by the high elves it was done when both human and elven nations were the Alliance. If the so called blood elves want to stop being part of the Alliance the town technically isn't their any more. And about Gadgetfingers's point... you are totally right man. If the leader of Dalaran is related with the Forsaken the Alliance now has to be allied with the Forsaken ??? WTF are Blizzard doing ??? Trying to ruin the perfect story because of the silly online "storyless" game? I am a big fan of WoW, but this is outrageous... InvincNerd you make pefrect sence, but has everyone forgotten about the story ? Shattrath city was more than enough if you ask me! If things continue like this on patch 3,5 we would be seing orcs in Stormwind holding their fresh with human blood hands with paladins. And about Malygos going crazy.... this at least sounds reasonable. Maybe the Lich King could have corrupted his mind as well.--Grievous 17:14, 11 December 2007 (UTC)
Dalaran as a floating city? Cool. I don't mind after all they must have been doing something beneath that magical sphere for all these years. But this neutral bit is ridicules. Dalaran has been in a state of open warfare against the Forsaken. They are official members of the Alliance. The Blood Elves allegiance to the Horde simply highlights their distance with the Alliance. If Kael'thas was leader of the Blood Elves this might be somewhat believable as he might have been able to broker that peace but he is too busy summoning Kil'Jaeden. Antodidas may have been sympathetic toward the Horde but he is long dead. Rhonin and Veeresa both fought in a war against the Horde. So we have traitorous elves, forsaken who they have been at war with for years and orcs and trolls whom two of the leaders of the city slaughtered during the Second War?. Now I admit it could be argued that Rhonin is sympathetic toward the Horde after being hurled back in time but the simple truth is that "his" people would not stand for it. -- Shlazaor, 7:50pm August 24, 2008 (OTC)
- Aside from the fact that this issue has been discussed to death many times over already, this page is for discussing improvements to the article. It is not a forum. Please take this topic of discussion elsewhere. -- Dark T Zeratul (talk) 03:53, 15 August 2008 (UTC)
Issues with the Blue Dragonflight?
In the Dalaran page someone keeps editting it to state Malygos has declared war on all magic users, rather then what we heard at Blizzcon, which was that "something has gone horribly wrong with the blue dragonflight", is there any source to back this up? (Sapphiron 6:17, 5 August 2007 (EST))
- I think that the "declared war on all magic-users" is what has gone horribly wrong with the Blue Dragonflight. -- (talk · contr) 22:23, 5 August 2007 (UTC)
- I understand that, but I'm wondering where they are getting this information. (Sapphiron 1:17, 6 August 2007 (EST))
- Kirkburn Voluspå 21:48, 6 August 2007 (UTC)
- I agree, I thought the Blue Dragon Flight was regainin it's power and that Malygos was restored to his proper mind. The Influence of an Old God sounds more sutale to me for an 'New" problems witht he flight. The Blue Dragon flight has always been distant and aggresive toward mortals. Of course this stemmed from the Malygos's insanity and weakened condition more then from any true hatred.What source is there for this "War against all mortals"?(Rush 04:02, 7 August 2007 (UTC))
- Perhaps he never recovered at all? Voluspå 08:49, 7 August 2007 (UTC)
- On another talk page (hard to keep track), we speculated that this is him making a recovery. He starts to notice all the dangers reckless mortal magi pose to the arcanum, but, instead of forming an agreement with the Kirin Tor as his sisters might, he declares war. -- (talk · contr) 12:32, 7 August 2007 (UTC)
- Indeed. In coming to his senses, he realises how much magic is being used around the world, and he isn't happy. 18:01, 7 August 2007 (UTC)
- Tyri healed him with the nether drake.-- 18:10, 7 August 2007 (UTC)
LoL,all the Kirin Tor mages are idiot,Deathwing now grabs Alexstrasza and take her to no where. Deathwing says thanks to her for breaking the somewhat shield made by Malygos. Idiots killed Malygos and break the shield,and Alexstrasza cant kill him and is grabbed away. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Ursoc and Ursol (talk · contr).
- Um... what? Too many "him"s in those sentences to understand. ... and for heaven's sake, we aren't running out of punctuation and space characters. You don't need to skimp. --Eirik Ratcatcher (talk) 18:17, July 9, 2010 (UTC)
What facts are disputed? What Blizz decided to do with the city and nation? They did what they did. If you dissagree with their plans, try the WoW forums.--21:27, 8 August 2007 (UTC)
- Removed the template until a reason is given. 21:29, 8 August 2007 (UTC)
- Look below, a reason!-- 21:38, 8 August 2007 (UTC)
The City of Dalaran -- not the Kingdom -- has moved
The article is now very unclear, perhaps even contradicting itself. The first section states that: "The Magical Kingdom of Dalaran, also known as the Magical Nation of Dalaran,W3Man 8, 89 is a magocratic city state that once existed within the northern Eastern Kingdoms, but has now somehow been moved to the icy land of Northrend".
However, the other part. of the article states that:
"The Kirin Tor continue to rule over the remains of their city, which is being rebuilt, as well as the town of Ambermill, the Lordamere Internment Camp, and parts of Silverpine Forest. Dalaran's army is largely responsible for the survival of Alliance power in Silverpine; without the aid of the mages, the town of Pyrewood Village would have fallen to the Scourge long ago. All travelers in southern Silverpine will note the massive presence of Dalaran's troops. The city is the northern-most Alliance state left standing after the invasion of the Scourge".
Is Dalaran still a city state when it rules other regions (that are colonies like Kirin'Var and exclaves like Nethergarde) -- or are these regions not considered a part of the empire?
I think we should either rewrite the Modern Dalaran section or change the first one in order to avoid confusion.--Voluspå
- It is a nation with the capital having the same name. The capital is also called 'The violet citedel'.-- 21:38, 8 August 2007 (UTC)
Just checked what a city-state actually is (always thought it was a "free city" with no control over its surounding land); A city-state is a region controlled exclusively by a city. It seems to me that the article does not explain the difference between the "city of Dalaran" and the "city-state of Dalaran" very well. Voluspå
- Removed the conflicting part, especially since it hasn't happened yet. 21:59, 8 August 2007 (UTC)
- I've made some changes. I hope I didn't mess something up now... goodnight ^^ Voluspå
One thing that has been constantly bugging me about people complaining about Dalaran's new neutrality is that they keep stating it was a "human nation". It was founded jointly with High Elf and Humans, with Gnomes also settling in. And keep in mind, many former Dalarani (Dalaranians?) humans are now Forsaken, and High Elves Blood Elves. I'd imagine they'd want back home, no? Omacron 23:05, 8 August 2007 (UTC)
- The population was primarily human. Now, I think Blizzard is setting it up for Dalaran to be what the Blue Dragonflight was supposed to be: the guardians and caretakers of magic for all races. -- (talk · contr) 23:58, 8 August 2007 (UTC)
- This must be the perfect occasion for Dalaran to regain its lost authority, not only in the Alliance, but also in the rest of the world. Dalaran could become more powerful both the Horde and the Alliance – perhaps it would even be able to mediate in the on-going the conflict and unite the two forces to face the wrath of the Lich King together? Voluspå
- As implied by the whole history of human empires thing, Dalaran was one of the city-states that broke away from the Arathorian Empire after the troll wars. It was founded by the mages who were taught their arcane art by the elves during the troll wars (hence why, when Anasterian and the Council of Silvermoon said "Screw you, humans, we paid our debt", a few elves - including Prince Kael'thas, as a member of the Kirin Tor - stayed in Dalaran...at least until the Scourge invaded Quel'Thalas). So predominantly, it was a human nation - at first. No connection was made to the elven spellcasters until - as far as I am aware - the events of Reign of Chaos. --Joshmaul 10:35, 11 August 2007 (UTC)
Unlikely. In Warcraft 3, the primary model for Dalarani are the Elven Sorceress and Elven Priests, only humans being the Footmen and the Arch Mages. I believe it implies that there is in fact a sizable Elf population in Dalaran, though humans being a majority. --Invin Dranoel 12:59, 29 August 2007 (UTC)
Besides, given the name's similarities to Ameth'Aran, Bashal'Aran, and about a dozen other Night Elf cities that ended in "Aran", it's likely that Dalaran is a Thalassian name. Then again, Lordaeron is a combination of a Dwarven, a Thalassian, and a Common word. --Paulus 21:55, 20 December 2007 (UTC)
- Moved to Talk:Dalaran/Analysis
I suggest splitting this article into two, one detailing the upcoming city zone of Dalaran which will be floating over Northrend, and the other detailing the Magocracy of Dalaran (no, I did not make that word up, it's from D&D), which would describe the nation proper. This would work much as in the same way as Stormwind and Kingdom of Stormwind. I don't have to be precognitive to know that people will end up confused if both nation and city remain in the same article after the latter moves out of the former... --User:Varghedin/Sig 15:44, 28 August 2007 (UTC)
- Sounds sensible to me. --Flyspeck 15:51, 28 August 2007 (UTC)
- I agree. And the term "Magocracy" is already used several times in Warcraft lore, so no worries. -- (talk · contr) 02:17, 29 August 2007 (UTC)
23:34, 30 August 2007 (UTC)
- I think we can leave as is until more information on location, layout, etc is released. -- (talk · contr) 02:52, 31 August 2007 (UTC)
- I agree...until we see screenies of the new Dalaran, I say let's not tinker with it. There will be plenty of opportunity to do so by this time next year, I think. :) --Joshmaul 04:04, 3 September 2007 (UTC)
- I think we can leave as is until more information on location, layout, etc is released. -- (talk · contr) 02:52, 31 August 2007 (UTC)
- I agree. And the term "Magocracy" is already used several times in Warcraft lore, so no worries. -- (talk · contr) 02:17, 29 August 2007 (UTC)
Actually Magocracy of Dalaran is an alternate name for the government of Dalaran, the Kirin Tor. Its not the name of the city.
- Dalaran Capital: Dalaran (3,000 or so). Population: Unknown; probably around 3,000. Government: Magocracy. Ruler: Archmage Ansirem Runeweaver-Lands of Conflict.
The term Magocracy of Dalaran was first mentioned in Warcraft III manual and based on the way it was used, it was referring to the Kirin Tor. It is never used in the RPG as far as I know.
Dalaran is usually just called Dalaran, although it has been described with many titles over the years.
In warcraft II manual its described as
- Dalaran, or the nation of Dalaran.
In warcraft III its described as;
- Dalaran, magical kingdom of Dalaran, mystical city of Dalaran, magical nation of Dalaran, and the sovereignty of Dalaran.
In the World of Warcraft manual it is referred to as;
- wizard-city of Dalaran.
In the RPG it usually goes by the name, Dalaran, but is described by dozens of other names, Magocracy of Dalaran is not one of them. The names include;
- Dalaran, city of Dalaran, magical nation of Dalaran, magical city of Dalaran, wizard city of Dalaran, former wizard city of Dalaran, former city of Dalaran, Lordaeron city-state of Dalaran, fallen city of Dalaran, fallen and broken city of Dalaran, “Dalaran, the mage city”, ruins of Dalaran, ruined city of Dalaran, Dalaran’s ruins, and domed ruins of Dalaran, if I’m not missing any.
Should we name a page, Magocracy of Dalaran? No way, its the Kirin Tor, not the nation. Should we call the city by any of the colorful descriptions, no not accurate. What is its real name? Simply Dalaran.Baggins 04:54, 3 September 2007 (UTC)
- Hobbit logic FTW. --Joshmaul 08:17, 5 September 2007 (UTC)
It's just confusing with too many articles on the same subject. Let's keep it as it is imo. --Odolwa 15:55, 5 September 2007 (UTC)
All it needs is Current history section (which it does), and this article is good to go.Baggins 16:05, 5 September 2007 (UTC)
The way I see it, with the expansion looming, we will eventually have to split the articles to cover the city, so we might as well get on with it. .Gadgetfingers
Is the Violet Citadel the capital city of Dalaran, or just in the city as the same as the relation between Stormwind keep and Stormwind city?-- 21:07, 26 September 2007 (UTC)
- The article suggests the latter. 21:45, 26 September 2007 (UTC)
- The violet citadel is a building within the city. It was destroyed during the Third War. Also as I stated before there is no reason to move "Dalaran" as Dalaran and the city of Dalaran are one and the dame. Its a city-state, and its simply moving locations, but remains the same city. We haven't seperated Draenor and Outland into two articles despite the fact that Outland slipped into the Twisting Nether upon its sundering.Baggins 21:16, 4 October 2007 (UTC)
- That comparison is a little extreme. Draenor became Outland. Dalaran the city is literally moving. What happens the the land it controls? Do we assume by moving it, they have given up their claims to it? If not, that would mean that the city will be a long way from its land. 20:21, 5 October 2007 (UTC)
I would compare Dalaran as a city and as a nation to the city state of Athens. The city state included the city of Athens (the only city in the state) and the peninsula of Attica, in the heart of which lay the city. On the peninsula lay towns and villages that were still part of the city state (similar to the relationship between Amber Mill and Dalaran). Now say for example by some miricle the goverment of Athens managed to foce their city from the ground and send it shooting off to Ejypt (to keep watch over the Ejyptions and make sure they dont get into trouble), Attica would still be in greece.
Then the question arrises, is it still part of the city state? Seeing as it is still guarded by Dalarani sodiers, i am inclined to beleive yes. Now,remembering we have seperate pages on Lordaeron and the city of Lordaeron and Stormwind and the kingdom of Stormwind, ect, and seeing as each of these cities warrent seperate pages from the nations they rule, I feel that, (with the added diferenciation between the nation and the city being fact that the city is miles and miles away from the country proper), the two certainly deserve their own pages.
However, seeing as information on the new city in Northrend is so scarce, I understand that untill we have more to put on the city page, there is little point in a split. Therefore, I suggest we wait untill we have more information upon the expansion Dalaran, but as soon as we have enough, we slit the pages into city and nation. --Gadgetfingers 02:28, 8 October 2007 (UTC)
- One more point, in WoW Dalaran is actually just a small part of Alterac Mountains area (its the same way in the RPG). From lore I haven't seen much evidence that the city-state has much of a country outside of the city, and perhaps a few towns it oversees as Gadgetfingers mentioned. Though, in early Warcraft II and its Expansion, and The Last Guardian, Dalaran land only included the city and Cross Island where the Violet Citadel lay. In warcraft III the Violet Citadel was rebuilt within the city, after having been destroyed twice before. :P Cross Island was conspicously missing. If you go the RPG, it states that the nation is city and only the city, although the mages could be found in all other nations and towns helping them out.
- Ambermill doesn't appear to actually be part of Dalaran nation according to Lands of Conflict, though its mentioned that Dalaran soldiers and Wizards try to help them out, or on scientific research in the region.Baggins 17:19, 8 October 2007 (UTC)
So what say you about the Lordamere Internment camp? Is this not, without doubt, a part of Dalaran? And if so, does this not finalise Dalarans mastery of the valley in which it stands? This valley is, without any doubt, just a small valley beside the alterac mountains proper, and part of the zone, however, zones to not follow national borders. (for example, Chillwind e point, and strahnbrad are part of Lordaeron, not Alterac, but in Alterac mountains zone.
If Dalaran grew any larger at all, Ambermill would be in Dalaran city proper, however, if u are perfectly sure that it is not part of Dalaran (wich to me at least seems highly illogical seeing as the town is right next to Dalaran, is entirely populated by Dalarani (with even the vendors bearing the Dalaran tabard, and has no reason to be linked to any other country), I will accept your verdict. I will because, from what I have seen, you have a good handle upon warcraft lore in general, and u seem to have done your research. Still, it seems strange to me to call it a city state if all it is is a free city, and not a state at all. .Gadgetfingers 03:32, 9 October 2007 (UTC)
- "So what say you about the Lordamere Internment camp? Is this not, without doubt, a part of Dalaran?"
Going back to Lands of Conflict which discusses it, it seems historically its an Alliance of Lordaeron holding in what used to be the Nation of Alterac. But is currently controlled by Dalaran wizards. But is not part of the Dalaran nation itself. The book is very clear that the nation itself is only the city. It also mentions that Dalaran as an independent entity currently can be almost anywhere, and are found in many locations around the world. They may have taken over it in recent times but it was never part of their original land holdings it actually was a part of the kingdom of Alterac according to Lands of Conflict.
- "And if so, does this not finalise Dalarans mastery of the valley in which it stands? This valley is, without any doubt, just a small valley beside the alterac mountains proper, and part of the zone, however, zones to not follow national borders."
As of right now the valley region is considered a contested region, controlled by Syndicate, Dalaran and others but are all part of the nation of Alterac. Only the city of Dalaran is not part of that former nation. I suppose one might think of Dalaran as being kind of like the Vatican City-state in the center of Rome. Yes, Vatican City is just one of various kinds of city-states that can exist. Yes this goes into some very tricky issues caused by modern politics as to why Dalaran is invading areas in Silverpine Forest and elsewhere. WoWRPG calls Dalaran that go into Silverpine area, are expeditions from Dalaran.
- "(for example, Chillwind e point, and strahnbrad are part of Lordaeron, not Alterac, but in Alterac mountains zone."
Strahnbrad, aka Strombrad was apparently also one of Alterac's former cities. As for Chillwind point there is very little information about it.
Of course we all know that the kingdom of Alterac was pretty much split into pieces with most nations wanting parts of it after the Second War according to Day of the Dragon. Current affairs pretty much show that.
- "If Dalaran grew any larger at all, Ambermill would be in Dalaran city proper, however, if u are perfectly sure that it is not part of Dalaran (wich to me at least seems highly illogical seeing as the town is right next to Dalaran"
You are thinking from a World of Warcraft scale, which has been stated is much too small according to the actual scale. In reality Ambermill is miles away from Dalaran.
As for who originally owned the region of Silverpine Forest, its not specific but lore seems to imply it may have been a region of the Kingdom of Lordaeron before the Third War. But very little lore has been written for the place, and most of that is post-third war. If you really want to get into somethign very tricky, check where the city of Alterac and Dalaran used to be in relationship to each other back in Warcraft II in the provided map.Baggins 09:40, 9 October 2007 (UTC)
- So, to recap: we will not bother splitting until more expansion information is avaliable, and when we do split it, it will be along lore lines, and to avoid another debate that leads us essentially nowhere, with classical references and Baggins trying to get the last word, we will use a parenthetical modifier. Comprende? -- (talk · contr) 02:43, 10 October 2007 (UTC)
- "when we do split it"
- That is, "if" there is a reason to split it when Wrath is released. But currently I'm not seeing any lore so far that might warrant a split, even what we see so far from Wrath. Unless they add anything drastic, or there is some major retcon, everything we know from Wrath can be an addendum to the same article.Baggins 04:46, 10 October 2007 (UTC)
Before we lay this matter to rest for good,(at least until we have more information to review), I would like to bring up a few points which I have come up with after careful review of Baggins's arguments. Point #1:Even if Dalaran is, as you said, but a citystate, and the bounds of its authority only extend to the gates of the city, then there will still be, as of the expansion, two Dalarans ,one in Northrend and one in central Lordaeron (subcontinent).This will still necessitate a split between these two halves of the article.
For example, say that you desire to find out something about the ruins of Daleran in the Alterac Mountains, you go to the Dalaran page and find yourself looking at a huge block of text about a city on a different continent servicing people of far higher level than your character. Then you are forced to scroll all the way to the bottom of the article to find a couple of paragraphs on the subzone in Alterac that you've been seeking. It just seems impractical.
Also, do you want it so that when people open the Alterac Mountains page and open the Daleran page on the subzones template, they are led directly to a city in Northrend that has nothing to do with what they're seeking: same problem as before. Personally, I feel that splitting the article is the only logical course to take (though by no means need we do this before we have sufficient information on the Northrend Dalaran as to require a separate page).
Point #2: If, as before we assume Dalaran's borders to end at the city walls,and assuming that Lordaeron's borders include the entire of Silverpine Forest (the Silverpine page seems to indicate the region was shared between Lordaeron, Dalaran and Gilneas (exact borders are not specified))then seeing as Lordaeron's government has effectively ceased to exist, the entire of Silverpine must be considered under no official authority.
Therefore, seeing as Amber Mill and the surrounding forest in southern Silverpine are under protection of the Dalaran military, it must be assumed that with Dalaran being the only location nearby with a government still standing and intact (relatively), all foreign policy and effective governing of these territories is under the auspices of Dalaran.
Seeing as these territories now look to Dalaran, and not Lordaeron for their security and governance, no matter the historical boundaries of the various human nations, Dalaran has, for all intense and purposes expanded four fold. Dalaran, as a modern nation, effectively rules all the territories that I earlier stated, official or not. The same situation appears to be the case in the Dalaran valley, and Lordamere Internment camp. The removal of the city without whose support these territories (and indirectly Pyrewood) would surely fall severely compromises the endurance of these territories as safe territories of the Alliance in the future. How can Dalaran remain a member of the Alliance at all when it has so irresponsibly abandoned those territories under its care.
Point 3. After you posted the map of Eastern Kingdoms, I long considered it, and came to the conclusion that should we judge the situation between Dalaran and Alterac purely from this map, then Alterac is one of the least likely human nations to rule the valley where Dalaran sits. The most likely candidates (from this map) for valley rule are Lordaeron and Gilneas, both of whom are far nearer to Dalaran than Alterac. (However, seeing as this image also shows vast distortions of the current, and even the Warcraft III map (for instance, Lordamere lake being a bay of the Great Sea, and silverpine nonexistent) I feel the Warcraft III map to be more accurate.
Gadgetfingers 22:52, 10 October 2007 (UTC)
"This will still necessitate a split between these two halves of the article."
- Not really. If all there is there is a blank field, then all it would need is a foot note in the same article. If dome remains for lowbies to pick up the storyline from early WOW then all it would need is a foot note in the history of Dalaran. The point is there probably won't be extensive levels of new lore causing for a reason to split the article that can be just mentioned in the article anyways. We tend to avoid any articles that would be stubs or stub-like if we can avoid it.
- People don't have to "scroll" they merely have to click on the index link which can be found on the top of long pages. Perhaps links to the zone quest pages (which is already done currently), but there is no reason to split the lore apart, as lore itself is part of the history of the same location. The zone lists on both location Northrend, and the Location in Alterac Mountains merely have to redirect to the same webpage.
- Silverpine is currently a "Forsaken/Horde" territory according to Lands of Conflict, due to them having the largest presence there. In anycase Ambermill is not part of the Kindgom of Dalaran, though they set up control of it. Its more of a colony, than part of the nation itself if one wants to describe it. To the Forsaken/Horde its an invasion force in their own lands. Its also considered Horde territory in World of Warcraft too, as far as I recall.
- As for maps, every map has its issues, one can't consider Warcraft III map more "accurate" than another, as currently the World of Warcraft Maps are the ones Blizzard are using in most of their current sources as the "current" one. World of Warcraft did some retcons to the locations of certain areas, and those are now the official maps to which lore is based on.
- In anycase, the only splits that might take place is an NPC list page, and a quest list page for each location. The actual lore page itself would not need to be split as the lore is a continuation of the same location.Baggins 23:31, 10 October 2007 (UTC)
- If anyone hasn't noticed this entire article is about Dalaran history, it is a lore page it is not a game mechanic page, quest page, or npc page. There is nothing that actually needs to be split from the page currently. This topic should be more on what new pages should be created, such as NPC lists, quest lists, or merchant lists/items for the city. But nothing in the page currently needs to be split.Baggins 23:44, 10 October 2007 (UTC)
Ok then, what shall we make? I think making the lists now id a bit pointless untill we know more (although we did have lists for Silvermoon and Exodar before the point (although they did have a standard faction capital layout)). What do u think? Gadgetfingers05:14, 12 October 2007 (UTC)
Yes, I think making list pages right now would be a bit premature. I'd wait until once Wrath beta begins, and people could start adding content to the list pages then.Baggins 06:29, 12 October 2007 (UTC)
Why does this page still have that thing that says it has been proposed that this page be split? Isn't the discussion, at least for now, over? 03:21, 8 January 2008 (UTC) gadget
I would like to revive this topic. While the conversation seems to have gotten a little derailed (though not off topic), and shifted focus to the relation of the City of Dalaran and the [state/country/nation/nation-state/city-state/city-country] of Dalaran, I feel now that WotLK is out a split of the city and history or something is viable and relevant.--22:10, 20 November 2008 (UTC)
- How about one page for the city (IN-GAME, not the entity, let's not let this go into symantics again) and one page for the lore? -- (talk · contr) 03:50, 8 December 2008 (UTC)
- Sounds good. Where does the infobox go?-- 23:17, 8 December 2008 (UTC)
They say its going to be turned into a battleground. The remains I mean. Cormundo 01:58, 8 September 2007 (UTC)
- So, no Dungeons of Dalaran instance? Baaaaaaawwwww! Leviathon's mention of an "unnamed 10-man" gave me such hope. D: --Super Bhaal 02:08, 8 September 2007 (UTC)
- Who is they? 14:26, 8 September 2007 (UTC)
- Indeed. Source, please! --Joshmaul 23:40, 9 September 2007 (UTC)
Another way to get in
There is actually another way to get in... if you're a hunter, and you put auto run on, your pet will go through the wall into the bubble. If you turn eyes of the beast on, then you'll be in there. Just like blink. Thundagard 10:49, 2 October 2007 (UTC)
This section needs a rewrite so it allows for quick access to relevant information. It is very good that we have a list of every possible way to get to Dalaran. However, it should be changed to have the first section contain 'ways to get to Dalaran if you've never been their before'. There are only 2 realistic ways a level 1-61 can get there-> with a mage port or a lock summon. A good way for most people from 61-70+ is to have someone in Dalaran queue them up in the battleground. A level 70 already in Dalaran can queue up a 61-70 for an Alterac Valley, but seriously there aren't very many 70s in Dalaran. As for the other 8 ways to get to Dalaran after you ahve been there, it is nice to know but not as relevant to 95% of the people that read he section.
It sure didn't work for me. --Odolwa 11:09, 2 October 2007 (UTC)
Maybe try just running into it. I can get through most barriers this way... at least, most barriers that have no actual thickness. It seems to work for invisible walls too. Thundagard 10:09, 9 October 2007 (UTC)
Eyes of the Beast doesn't work. Neither does just plowing into it. Mr.X8 23:30, 13 October 2007 (UTC)
- There's nothing in there anyway.. just a huge circular patch of brown dirt. --User:Varghedin/Sig 13:48, 12 January 2008 (UTC)
- I have another way of getting into Dalaran that I had just stumbled upon accidently. Actually, you can also get into Wintergrasp this way too. This is useful for any level, but especially levels 1-60. It does mean that players will for sure die on their way but if you don't have anyone to port you to Dalaran, it is a for sure way of getting in. I'll post my results at this page and if everyone likes it, then we can add a link in the article. Jman310 (talk) 00:17, 15 January 2009 (UTC)
Again demographic information represents direct quotes from the RPG, even what appears to be "redundant information", such as teh "capital" section was specifically a quote from the RPG. Do not altar the information as it is misleading.Baggins 08:28, 1 December 2007 (UTC)
Shouldn't the Alliance be angry at Dalaran?
King Terenas was furious at Silvermoon and Gilneas for leaving the Alliance at a time of peace and prosperity.
Now during a time when war with the Horde seems to be coming any day (Alliance/Horde relations got worse for Wrath of the Lich King according to Blizzard), and there is danger both within and without, and one Alliance faction at least (Exodar) is lorewise nuetral (Adal explains to Liadrin that the only reason her Blood Knights recieved toleration was because of Velen saying to do it), and another (The Night Elves) are very open about only being in the Alliance to get Horde invaders out of there lands (So would go nuetral if the Horde packed up and left Ashenvale) Dalaran decided to leave.
Or was the Alliance being angry at people when they leave retconned?
Also does the Horde have the same rules as the Alliance regarding Sucession?
I could easily see the Blood Elves following Dalaran into defecting to Nuetral Sanctuary people if the Horde does allow it.
- Dalaran has been neutral since around the end of the Third War, according to Lands of Conflict. No exact date when they went neutral, but it was after Warcraft III, and before World of Warcraft. One thing to remember, Jaina is not Terenas.Baggins 06:07, 17 February 2008 (UTC)
I know that all of the other lore that composes this article clearly states that Dalaran was a city-state compeletely independent of Lordaeron, but was it ever part of the country? I just recently dug up my old copy of Warcraft III, and when I played the mission "The Seige of Dalaran," the front gates of the city had the blue Lordaeronian banner hung all over it. Any ideas as to why? M. H. Avril (talk) 23:35, 25 May 2008 (UTC)
- Blizzard did not make two gate doodads?-- 23:42, 25 May 2008 (UTC)
Old Dalaran after it moves in Wrath of the Lich King
Does anyone noticed that old Dalaran site in Alterac mountains has remains of european middleage style walls and towers, while modern Dalaran is clearly of eastern (persian or indian) style architecure? Gumblarg (talk) 07:23, 16 February 2009 (UTC)
- Kind of hard not to notice...it's just left over stuff from when Dalaran was still "under construction" - probably satellite towns or buildings deemed "not important enough to protect", like inns or whatever (scale issues, et cetera...). --Super Bhaal (talk) 11:41, 15 February 2009 (UTC)
- Furthermore, consider that you never actually managed to go inside the Shield around the old Dalaran - and that the mages of Dalaran have already demonstrated the ability to project a false image from the outside of a shield (see Transitus Shield ). It's equally possible that the mages were attempting to blend in a little with the Human-style civilizations around the area, rather than the obviously elven architecture of the city of Dalaran. -StarLion (talk) 15:13, 16 February 2009 (UTC)
I've heard stories that lag in Dalaran would cut off your head if it had a sharp pencil, it's so horrible. How horrible is it? how horrible would it get at the busiest time of a server? How horrible would it be if at said time, a group of, say, fifty or sixty people got together? I need to know because I'm planning a player-festival on Shadow Council server, and I'm considering whether or not to have a day in Dalaran. ((For more details, visit | Carnival on Shadow Council Wikia.)) Thank you. Deiena (talk) 18:29, 13 June 2009 (UTC)
- Depends on your computer. The "lag" is caused by loading massive amounts of textures into memory. Back in the day, with IF/Orgy if you got about 1GiB of memory you were fine... with Shatt that jumped up to 1.5-2GiB. When I first hit Dalaran on my server's busy period I had 2GiB, and it was painful during that initial few minutes of loading. Tossed in an extra GiB to bring me up to 3GiB and got a faster drive to run WoW off of, and it's smooth as butter. Mmmmmm.... butter.
- Framerate of course is a different issue, if your drive doesn't churn for long periods of time when you enter town, but your framerate is crap, then that's your video card and/or processor not having enough power for rendering.
- Memory and drives are cheap, I'd upgrade those first, it's well worth it. 19:38, 13 June 2009 (UTC)
- I'd recommend you get 3GiB, that's what I run and it's smooth, 2GiB wasn't (in Dalaran only, it was more than adequate for the rest of the game). If your computer is capable of running a SATA2 drive, and you don't have one, I'd recommend you get one as well. The boost in read times when loading up Dalaran is nice, but first priority is to have enough memory to avoid running into the pagefile (which is what causes the horrible "lag"). Rumor has it that SSD drive load times are *amazing*, but that's probably not worth the cost. 21:39, 13 June 2009 (UTC)
I call it Dalagaran myself. My belief is that the terrain in Northrend is more complex than in Outland or Classic Azeroth; this leads to slower rendering and more disk loads. Also, in Dalaran, you have an awful lot crammed into a tiny space. The number of people alone will require a lot of memory munching and disk spinning.
I have a 2 GB DDR system with somewhat outdated hardware; I should mention that Windows 7 works much better than Windows Vista in all regards. More memory would certainly help, though if you have the newest DDR3 motherboards, you could stop at 6 GB. Processor speed and GPU speed are important, but for me I think the bottleneck is disk loading time.
In general, SATA is better than PATA, SATA-II is better than SATA-I, and if you're using a motorized drive (most people are), high rotational speed (10,000 RPM as opposed to 7200 or 5400) will give you somewhat of an improvement-- though it isn't the only factor.
I'm investigating Solid State Drives (SSDs) for use in WoW. The game folder will fit into 16 GB, though I may wind up with a 32 GB just for giggles. (For the curious, a 64 GB unit will hold Windows 7, common apps like a browser, and World of Warcraft. But for most Internet and operating system work, it's overkill. I plan on putting WoW on the SSD by itself.) For our purposes, read times are of the utmost importance; patch day is the only time when you write a whole lot of data. (I'm going to leave out a lot of SSD advice, like using a motor HD for your page file and never indexing or defragmenting. Oops, I put it in anyway.) And the latest crop of SSDs are lower in price than ever before, which makes a 32-64 GB unit a viable option, though still expensive: Amazon/Newgg prices are in the $100 range for a 32 GB drive. For that price you could get at least a good quality 500+ GB motor drive.
And here's the question. All SSDs have insanely fast seek times. Some excel in reading 4K chunks of data, others are best at large sequential files... has anyone an opinion, or hard data, or the word of a blue, on what disk drive parameter would be most important in speeding up WoW's file loads? I'm on the verge of getting an OCZ Vertex, or a Cavalry Storage Pelican, or some other unit. --ClemSnide (talk) 04:59, 9 August 2009 (UTC)
Is Dalaran pronounced
- da-lair-EN or
- da-LAIR-en or
- da-LAIR-ahn or
- da-LAAR-ahn or
- da-laar-EN or
- da-laar-AHN or...
Pop culture references
Dalaran was once a city protected by an impenetrable magical shield, then the entire city and the landmass it was built upon set flight to Northrend in Wrath of the Lich King. This might be a reference to the City of Atlantis which also was once a city protected by a dome-like energy shield and located in Antarctica. Atlantis is where most of the Stargate Atlantis episodes take place in the series. Orisai (talk) 00:08, 1 August 2009 (UTC)
- I'd like to agree, but until there's a Scourge wraith named "Todd" in the Violet Citadel I'm just going to be a big jerk and disagree. --Super Bhaal (talk) 21:30, 10 August 2009 (UTC)
Flying Over Dalaran
It has been my experience that a player can fly over Dalaran at a certain altitude (ill try to get a pic of the no-fly zone limit) and above. When patch 3.2 came out, the assumption was full flight over the city. Maybe this should be clarified, as only certain parts of the city are high enough to allow flight. Noabr (talk) 20:48, September 1, 2009 (UTC)
Dalaran third bank missing ?
It seems that the page is missing the third bank, at Cantrips & Crows next to the tunnel. Under Points of Interest and Areas,The Underbelly,Cantrips & Crows. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Almost Friendly (talk · contr).