Talk:Druids as tanks

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Cleanup needed!Edit

With patch 3.0.2, this article needs cleaned up as druids have gotten several new abilities and new tanking mechanics.

oldest discussionEdit

Several places in here, it says that Frenzied Regen is the only "Oh Crap" button that bears have, which isn't entirely true. Bears don't have as effective "Oh Crap" handling skills as Warriors, but it's not limited to just Frenzied Regen. Shifting out to caster isn't always suicide. See Astrylian

Well Astrylian, the problem with that is if you are in an "oh crap" moment, generally, shifting out of bear form is the worst thing you can do because you are likley at very low HP. But I know a few strategies that do work well, and will add them later. Shenhua

I concur regarding using Alterrealitys post from the forums. Also someone called theGrog seems to be removing a lot of good work being done by other posters. He is removing their facts and putting in his bias. Shenhua also seems to be doing some revisionist history, subtly defacing the page with a Pro Warrior Tanking/Anti Druid Tanking Slant. Please Sir, if you are not an expert on druid tanking, please let those who DO know put the correct information up. Wikked

I am a druid tank, although I do not claim to be an expert, for you to target me is rather unfair as all I did was edit warriors out of the picture. You should be happy for that as it focuses entirley on druid tanking. Shenhua

unfortunately, it looks like you mostly removed whole swaths of infromation that is relivent. Yes, this is not an article about warriors, but still comparisons have to be made. Why mention how quick feral charge is, when you don't compare it to intercept for example? --Stfrn 17:30, 14 August 2006 (EDT)
I did actually make edits where there was continuity problems, I mentioned Feral Charge made knockbacks irrelevant instead of saying that this made them better than warriors. Looking through my edits, double checking and whatnot, all the data I removed was frankly, irrelevant to druid tanking. You don't really know how a weapon chain puts a warrior on par with you, to know that you can't be disarmed. Shenhua

Druid tanking guide as written by Alterreality on Malygos -
This should probably be summarized and combined into this article as it does offer some great research into how bear tanking works.

Restoring a large chunk of text deleted by DarkArctic. I have to assume he did it by accident, since his comment said, "Grammar," not, "Edited one grammar mistake and obliterated half the article in the middle of a sentence." :) Schmoo 11:36, 14 July 2006 (EDT)

Did quite a bit of cleanup on the restored section. Schmoo 12:19, 14 July 2006 (EDT)

I keep getting this under my skin, it's almost like it's saying "...druids (are) more efficient at holding aggro." --Falos 00:16, 16 May 2007 (EDT)

We were for a short time. Right now I'm not sure, but we're about the same in TPS, if not a little better. Oh and although switching out to save your group is passable in a 5-man, it doesn't work at all in a raid group if you have anything at all on you. Raid bosses will one-shot you in caster form. Pzychotix 18:05, 18 May 2007 (UTC)

Cleanup Edit

I got tired of the whole warriors vs druids thing, so I just made it soley about druids. Please if you add any more refrain from comparing druids to warriors. Shenhua

== Request for Revision == (request withdrawn)

Both Shenhua and the Grog have really been trying to slant the article to be Anti-Druid tanking. I ask that all edits after Maeglor's be removed and the page be frozen for a week or so.

Did you even read my edits? All I did was cut warriors out. Shenhua

Actually, after reading all your edits, I don't agree with some of your changes, but I do agree you did not act out of malice and any bias you injected were not done out of ill will. I'm afraid I orignally got some of your changes confused with some of theGrog's. My apologies. I am not convinced that one CAN really talk about Druid tanking without comparing it to Warrior tanking, but I can see how badly it was degrading into a little ideology war. I understand your reasoning for reworking it. My apologies. Wicked

Thank you Shenhua for streamlining the page. The page flows much better. I think it was wise to remove the warrior-related content. Warrior tanking tends to be understood well but druid tanking is not. Maeglor

The article says that Druids are not immune to Jin'Do's totems. I know they are not immune to Hakkar's charm effect, but I have heard both yes and no on the totems. Can anyone confirm it either way? Also, in the comparison section, saying "less damage taken" isn't generally true, though a bear has higher survivability and less spiky incoming damage, in theory it will often be taking a slightly higher amount of incoming damage, thus requiring slightly more healing overall while remaining easier to heal. Athenodorus

This article direly needs a cleanup post-BC. Too much is outdated, too much is trying to "sell" or "not sell" druid tanking. Not enough is talking about practical issues such as gear, spec, threat and healing issues. I've tanked a number of bosses as our guild moves through Karazhan, so I'll put some ideas together.

Chrazriit 09:53, 27 March 2007 (EDT)

General Tone? Edit

This page still comes off making druid tanks sound weaker than they are. One of the victims of the "cleanup" was the loss of the very positive tone that had developed. This page now sound apologetic compared to the tanking page. Bear Tanks are fully equal to Prot Spec warriors. They don't have to apologize for it or be shamed by it. The Prot Spec Warrior is not the gold standared that druids have to live up to. Warriors Tank. Druids Tank. Both get the job done.

I honestly can't see the negative or apologetic tone you say there is. What I have been trying to do is keep is strictly factual and try to avoid opinion one way or another, as well as steering the article from the whole comparison issue.Shenhua

I am concerned by things like this "A Protection-specialized Warrior is usually the best Main Tank for large 40-man raids but a Feral Druid specialized for Tanking is just as viable if not more so than an Arms/Fury warrior for almost all of the current game content, both as an Main Tank and an Off Tank" Translates to "well you know, druids tank sometimes but only when no Prot warrior is available." Thats not relevant, not true, and belittles druid tanking. There is a strong contingent of experienced players who have played a druid tank in end game and feel that they are equally viable to a Prot spec warrior. (they are right! ;) ) There is also a large contingent of people who disagree with that statement. (both of them) The compromise is as you suggested earlier, drop the comparison and just make the statement that druids are vialble end game tanks.
The Advantage section doesn't mention the fact that druid tanks will usually have 1000+ more HP and up to 6000 more armor. If you got it flaunt it. All druids know this, but other players usually do not. It needs to be spelled out.
In the disadvantages section - regarding fear, this should be couched in terms the methods a druid tank uses to handle the problem, trinkets, fear ward, and tremor totems. Now it simply says they are vulnerable, ignores fear ward and tremor totems, and goes out of its way to point out the cool down imitation for the PVP trinket.
Under the Mitigation section there is almost as much information about how the druid suffers from a lack of +defence as there is on HP/Armor. +Defence is nice but basicly irrelevent to druid tanking. It is replaced by agility as a more effective source of dodge, and armor as a way to handle hits. Itemization is a transitory condition that will swing after each new zone release. Unless we want to keep a constantly updated list like the sticky on the druid forum we probably shouldn't be even bringing it up.
Another example of apologetic or self defeating languge "This is not that big of a factor, as few bosses currently disarm (one notable exception is General Rajaxx, but this is only a factor if Lieutenant General Andorov dies)." This is un-neccesarily dismissive of a nice bear perk. It helps in innumerable non-boss fights, and can make a vital difference in the Rajaxx fight.
"Druids can use items which are typically used pre-fight such as Flasks and several longer duration potions, however, a druid cannot re-apply these midfight unless he switches out to caster form" Again this is focusing on the negative, rather than the positive - that druids can prep up with flasks and consumables before the fight just like any other class.
Compare "When a tank is polymorphed, they lose aggro. Druids are completely immune to polymorph in Bear Form, so they will not lose aggro. There are a few encounters that use polymorphing: Jin'do the Hexxer and Blackwing Spellbinders in Blackwing Lair." to "This is very useful in encouters that use polymorphing like Jin'do the Hexxer, Blackwing Spellbinders in Blackwing Lair, and trolls in the Sunken Temple and Zul'Farrak." The first is apologetic - yeah we can do it, but its only useful once or twice in the whole game , so don't feel threatened! - vs the second - "Druids have a useful skill that comes into play throughout the play experience."
I realize you specifically are not responsible for all of these. JoonSF seems to have made a significant number of changes, including the innacurate comparison of bears to Prot and Fury/Disc warriors and, un-doing a lot of your work at removing comparisons to the warriors from the page. Other parts of his work seem very good and accurate so its unlikely he is just another Anti-Druid-Tanking Zealot trying to vandalise the page. This page has been going through constant transformation recently. I think we all need to come to an agreement on what themes and tone we are going to take. There are a lot of mis-conceptions and predjudices regarding Druid Tanks in the player community right now. Most of them are simply based off of ignorance of how much more effective druid tanking has become since Release, and some are just due to insecurity of those who feel their role would be threatened or who just are uncomfortable with change in general. This page needs to not just state the "Facts" but to help promote acceptance of the implications of the facts as well. The entire Tanking page is devoted to Warrior Tanking. Druid tanking needs equal prominence in the Wiki. We have a lot of debunking and mytb-busting to do that is undermined by submissivness, apologetic behavior, passivity, or lack of confidence.

I really appreciate your comments, and some of them are very valid and I will work to incorperate them into them page. Although I enjoy your enthusiasm, it's just really not viable for druids to tank high end encounters. Sure it can be done, and if it comes to it I am sure other classes could as well, but the point is it's far more efficient in most cases for a Defensivly specialized warrior to bore the brunt. Shenhua
If you sincerly believe that, then I would suggest you stop editing this page. The math, the experiments, the real life tanking has been done. Bears have Equal or Better Surviability to optimially spec'd Warrior and generate more aggro. This isn't an opinion, its a proven fact. It is in most cases equally efficient to use a bear or warrior. If you feel otherwise, then as requested below, provide your proof. The ones saying bears tank and tank well have already done so many time, and very convincingly. (read the forums and stickies for details.) I do not enjoy your pessimism and find it inappropriate for this environment. As I stated elsewhere, I was resitant to your original idea of removing comparisons to Warrior tanking. After some thought and re-reading I changed my mind and was convinced that due to the dug in positions of both camps on the matter, your strategy would be the better choice. I think we should continue with that strategy. This page should be about bear tanks - what they can do, how they do it. Let keep any negative slant out of it so people can use the information provided to try for themselves and make their own judgement. If we use a defeatist tone, or suggest that bear tanking is a party trick, then in this Min/Max crazy game the idea will be rejected witout any attempt to test. Those who are satisfied with what is, will use the infomation to justify their own prejudice. Those who are interested in trying will be discouraged as an "authoritive" page has suggested that its pointless. So unless the tone is fully positive and constructive the whole page might as well be one line "Don't Bother - leave it to the Warriors."

With all respect, could you back up the "Druids aren't viable" statement?

I worked out a pretty complex spreadsheet, taking into account shield block spam, defense, parry, crit reduction etc., between one of the midrange Warriors in my guild (some MC drops) and a Bear (with no raid drops at all, but full available blues.) The Warrior theoretically takes 10% less damage over time, but the time-to-live on the Druid was 15% greater, and the incoming damage was less spiky, meaning easier healing and better ability to absorb spikes. But all that is pointless, because theorycraft has to assume "Equal gear, equal skill, equal motivation, equal lag, equal encounter design, equal spec" at which point the entire thing goes down the toilet. The best tank is the best person for the job. That person may sometimes be a Druid. After TBC, it may be a Paladin.

I apologise for the very strong reaction the Bear community has had to this page, please understand we all have a huge inferiority complex and a chip on our shoulder. Equality means a lot to us. Athenodorus

I appreciate everyone's comments, and I do incorperate them (if you have read my edits) to the best of my abilities. What I do add to the page is not my opinion, but what I think benefits it. You are correct that my hesitation to admitting that bear tanks are best, would not be appropriate for this page. And as such, I do not mention them. I will say, though, that the game in it's current state, a raid-equipped warrior with optimal talent specialization, will outclass a bear tank just through options alone. I do not disagree that Bear Tanks are wholly viable in raid encounters, they are quite so. But a warrior just has a whole plethora of options designed specificially for doing that. That said, I am a Feral Druid and do enjoy it very much, I have been in instances where the main and off tank was a Feral Druid, they did fine. But my argument isn't of ability, it's of efficiency. Shenhua

The page still smacks of bias (a 'pro-druid' slant), and frankly I feel the best way to resolve this would be to remove ANY AND ALL references to warriors from the page. If there are references to warriors then there will be people who dispute it as a 'comparison'. Frankly, there is no need to mention the warrior class at all. Can druids tank? Yes. However, this page is not the place to start a debate on which class is better. The best way to prvent any further disputes on the page is to write it in the form that is solely a description of 'bear tanks' and not insert covert attempts to try and suggest that druids are better tanks (as the page stands now). Talk about what instances that druids have tanked is completely irrelevent to the page. Just go through the page and remove any reference to warriors, and remove references that covert suggest druids are 'better' in certain encounters. Change the advantages and disadvantages so they relate to the DRUID, which is more appropriate. If the page is about druids then KEEP it about druids, leave the warriors out of it and that way we can leave the arguement out of it as well. -Savant

Mind Control Edit

Page states druids are immune to mind control effects. The Baroness in Scholo mind controlled me in bear just fine.

I assume you mean Baroness Anastari from Stratholme. This is likely a charm effect instead of a true mind control. I've had the same thing on Hakkar. DarkArctic

At the risk of... Edit

At the risk of restarting the druid vs. warrior argument, after reading this page I felt like it was half of an argument, with the other half MIA. It read as a "This is why druids can be better tanks," without supporting proof (which would involve citing warrior statistics), and without enough information on some weaknesses (see below). Personally, I'd like to see this page split into two halves: 1) This is how a druid can be a good tank (discussing abilities, talents, and gear, but making no comparisons). 2) This is how it compares to a warrior (aggro generation, DPS, armor, etc.). There's also a few places where I feel that weaknesses of druid-tanking were glossed over. If they aren't actually weaknesses, then the problem is that there isn't enough information here to show that. Examples:

  • Base DPS from weapons are discounted
    • But what is it replaced with? How does this compare to a good weapon?
  • Druids do not have an innate ability to counter fear. While Fear Ward and Tremor Totems are the preferred way to counter Fear...
    • Ok, druid's don't have an innate way to counter fear. Fear ward, tremor totems, and insignias aren't inherant to a druid - why mention them as a counter to a druid disadvantage?
  • Based on extensive mathmatical testing, it is clear a Bear Tank's Threat Per Second potential is extremely high
    • That's reasonable. Link to a Formula page here with details of that mathematical testing. Don't just talk about it, give us something to verify.
  • becomes clear that Druids can generate a truly astronomical amount of threat.
    • This is one of those statements which shows the slant of the article. A well-specced and geared mage should be able to generate something close to 1200 damage on a non-resistant mob. (678 average dmg on rank 12 Fireball, plus 10% (Fire Power), plus a crit becomes 1118.7 damage, before any spell power items). This is certainly not 'astronomically' lower than what the druid is capable of. (Of course, this is a poor comparison of actuall threat, since the mage will have threat reduction, and the druid has other ways to generate threat)

Keep in mind that I don't object to everything (there's some balanced criticisms (such as no potions)and some justified advantages (such as immunity to polymorph and disarming, and always having access to Feral charge instead of stance dancing). There's just some things which I think should be reexamined. I'm not a druid, or I'd try to make changes myself, and while I do play a warrior, she's low enough level that I have no real tanking experience with her. --Bobson 13:11, 29 November 2006 (EST)

I noticed the talents are still pre patch 2.01. I'm not sure of what the best 60 spec would be, but I presume 0/41/10, something like Also some mention of mangle for tanking could be useful.

A usefull tidbit why crit mauls are so powerfull not only do that do double damage and thusly double threat, but they cost 10rage and as a crit generates 5. So thusly the crit recives double threat, yet costs half as much. Aglity and crit rating thusly are far better for aggro then str or AP. --Stfrn 05:13, 4 January 2007 (EST)

Here is the best tanking spec at level 70. your opinion. I like mine better. The 10 'instant' rage is nice, but with my mana pool in feral armor, not having natural shapeshifter (for getting out of rooting, or using moonfire or tranquility to get aggro back when taunt is down) means I'm going to get stuck... --Azaram 02:46, 11 November 2007 (UTC)

Armor Edit

I'm a fan of disregarding skill and gear when comparing classes. When an argument is between the class itself, the way Blizzard tossed it, and not whether you do this and that. It takes away some clutter, especially PvP debates on classes.

I believe that on the whole, stamina is rather level across the classes. It's kind of self-evident actually, 10HP, plain and simple. So the classes of WoW are fairly equal all around, until your gear comes into play, streamlined, and you're deciding where to spend your item's level. The initial rolling stats and the per-level bonuses to stamina/HP are far less significant than your item level's partition. The point is, dire bear form will have a free HP spike, exceeding other classes that hunt stamina with the same effort.

For a source, try the lv60 "of Stamina" greens at thottbot - same stamina, regardless of armor type. But I'm not here to talk HP.

I've been one to notice that AC seems to scale up at a 2x rate between levels, that is, cloth=1, leather=2, mail=4, plate=8. This can be compared by looking at random level X greens, for the same gear slot, or to be more convenient, the base AC on the random purples from the KZ beasts.

The 400% boost to armor is a free leather-to-plate conversion, except unclassed gear (cloaks, rings, weapons, necks, etc) will also be 'converted', for another advantage with no effort whatsoever. Then agility is multiplied, not an extreme spike but an easy one or two thousand bonus. What's more, 5*10% is in talents, for 550% after the original AC of the druid before shifting is thrown on top. Assuming my armor-type curve is right, direBear=10, before scaling unclassed gear. Druids have no shield, but +stats on a two-handed staff are heavy, including +Armor, which alone can compare close to a matching level shield.

Consider the following. An item's AC is typically left at base - cloaks or weapons are known to spec into AC, often with the dire bear multiplier in mind - and usually compares along my suggested curve. If this is the case, let's side-to-side some 70 gear.

[Heavy Clefthoof Vest] is an easily learned 70 piece, at 360 LW and Honored reputation with CE (if you're not honored at 70, you probably skipped CFR) made of simple mats, mostly clefthoof.

[Breastplate of the Bold] is the chest of the tier 3.5 tanking set. It is obtained at the end of the Arcatraz dungeon, which is opened with the [Key to the Arcatraz], a key obtained at the end of an 11-quest chain, which requires defeating the final bosses of Botanica and The Mechanar, which require your 1000g flying mount training (or 68 training for a druid), which requires nothing less than level 70.

The vest has 290 AC, the Bold chest has 1164 AC. If these were shifted into cloth, along my curve, they'd both have 145 AC, suggesting the items are of equal quality, and that the vest is at base AC.

In 550-dire bear form, the vest is actually 1595 AC. To compare, the tier 5 chestplates have 1661 AC (+10% also included)

I'm quite sure the vest is base AC, with no extra, not only because it fits my curve, but because Patch 2.1.0 is about to shift it, -7 sta, -4def, +210 AC, if the thottbot article is accurate. After the patch tweak, the vest will give (in 550-bear) a remarkable 2750 AC, far beyond any piece of plate in the game, talents or not.

Here, let's make it clear.

Tier 5 plate, unsocketed, has 6782 AC after agility/toughness. The (feral) T5 for a druid, unsocketed, is 11033 AC after agility/thick hide.

T5 Plate - 6782

T5 Bear - 11033

On my 1-2-4-8 curve, that's a 13. This doesn't account for gear with no type, only the T5 pieces. For my final note, the three pieces of that easily skinned heavy clefthoof set will be worth 7683 AC after 2.1.0

--Falos 00:13, 16 May 2007 (EDT)

I'm not quite getting what you're trying to say here. Are you saying that bears get too much armor? Are you saying that bears get armor to compensate for their lack of parry and block? Specifying which would help. Pzychotix 18:21, 18 May 2007 (UTC)

Bendoc91 23:58, 3 July 2007 (UTC) Druids can be immune to crits!

--WARNING: The following content is viscously precise but might be described as boring. It contains all the numbers and forumlas needed to prove that druids can reach crit immunity easily. Do not read on if you belive me or want to save yourself alot of thinking but if you don't, Voila, the proof:--

It's simple math. In order to reach crit immunity against a boss, you need survival of the fittest and another -2.6% crit chance reduction, or in other words 415 defence skill. I have achieved 415 defence in pre-raiding, non world drop gear easily, with 0 epics and I have some extra which is extra dodge!:-). A ?? boss is considered 73 elite. The base crit chance of a mob is 5%. 1WS (Weapon Skill) above your defence skill (350 at level 70)=0.04% crit chance. 1 lvl =+5 WS, since the boss is 3 levels above you, he will have 15WS above your base DS, or an extra 0.6% crit chance which adds up to a total of 5.6% crit chance on a person who has 0 defence rating (Defence rating =/ defence skill. What you get from gear is defence rating, 1 defence rating = +-0.423 defence skill.) 1 Defence skill = -0.04%to be critted. Survival of the fittest is -3% crit, so you are left with 2.6 crit chance to deal with.2.6 (Crit chance)/0.04(The reduction from 1 defence Skill)=65, 350+65=415 defence skill in order to be completly immune to crits!. The Clefthoof set alone gives you 29.6 defence skill (379.6 defence skill total with base) and I'm preety sure that if you want it bad enough you will find gear that will give you 35.5 defence skill (177.5 defence rating).

Or in other words: Crit immunity = SOF+415defence, easily acheivable by questing and doing a couple of isntancesat 70.

This beautiful thing only works in PvE obviously... In my small low level, horrible kitty DPS gear I have around the 25% Crit chance and in order to make you uncrittable from the mighty kitten you are going to need a total of 975 defence skill and my crit chance is preety low. If you want PvP Crit immune read about resillience (tough to get but very rewarding), this might be your chance to royally nerf crits (not avoid them) making you pretty much unbeatable to your average rogue. Impossible to get but nice to dream about.

Since The Burning Crusade, druids have become a very strong and liable class in almost evrey field. A nuking Oomkin can be very scary, and high on DPS, a tanking bear with the right gear can be just as good or even better sometimes than a protection warrior or paladin, and of course, The Tree Of Life: Even thou it takes extra fire and axe dmg, this bad boy suckels the life out of the ground he is standing on, and right into you HP pool. Druids are my little furry, feathery or leafy buddys.

I would love to get responses since this is my first edit:-)

Kaliora, Alliance 70 Feral Druid, EU Realm: Dragonmaw

I think this has been established for quite some time now. Pzychotix (talk · contr) 11:02, 5 July 2007 (UTC)

"best PvE tanking spec" Edit

I suggest changing that link to a spec that doesn't involve Savage Fury, as this only applies to cat skills now. Also, Feral Aggression is useful, since a) not many warriors spec improved demo shout (some don't even use demo shout o.O ), and b) it improves your cat farm damage. What about [1] ? IconSmall Druidŋɑϑ 14:25, 22 July 2007

I'd take out Feral Aggression, and just leave a note that that and Intensity can be useful for tanking. In fact, Shredding Attacks is also of minimal utility for tanking, and could probably be removed as well. That does leave you a couple of points shy of Mangle, but how to fill those points in will vary from player to player - I wouldn't say there's a single best answer. Flowers 21:59, 19 October 2007 (UTC)
I'd take out the entire 'best' tanking spec, as it's so subjective that it's ridiculous. Best for you may not be best for me, and vice versa. --Azaram 04:37, 18 November 2007 (UTC)

updates 10/10/2007Edit

I made several adjustments to a variety of statements to better reflect the state of affairs in BC. Much of the page seemed to reflect the 'bad old days' before Mangle and Lacerate and 25-man raids.

Hrocdol 20:02, 10 October 2007 (UTC)

Weapon Damage Enchants?Edit

I'm pretty sure weapon damage enchantments do affect a druid's damage, although I don't have a way to test this myself. Can anyone offer a definitive answer to whether they have an effect? Flowers 21:53, 19 October 2007 (UTC)

Only enchantments on rings or +weapon damage boni on armor items, as +damage enchantments on weapons count towards the weapon's dps, not the player's. IconSmall Druidŋɑϑ 00:35, 20 October 2007 (UTC)
Right. The only enchants we get use out of are ones that add stats, essentially. We're not attacking with the weapon, so weapon damage enchants do not help (although the weapon we're not using still takes durability damage...). Anything 'on hit' like crusader doesn't go off either. --Azaram 06:01, 31 October 2007 (UTC)

Added a link Edit

I added a link to the BearPot macro, but couldn't figure out how to get it to link to the specific section of the page as a wikilink, as it's two levels deep. If you would like to fix it, the full address is --Azaram 06:01, 31 October 2007 (UTC)

Simple, instead of e.g. [[Useful macros]], use [[Useful macros/Druid#BearPot]], (wow)wiki completely supports that. IconSmall Druidŋɑϑ 06:49, 31 October 2007 (UTC)
Heh. Was entirely my failing, I couldn't figure it out. I knew it could be done, I just couldn't do it... Thanks. --Azaram 09:20, 31 October 2007 (UTC)

Bold text

Possible AdditionEdit

Would it be at all possible to show what are the best way to pull as a feral druid depending on number of people being tanked. How to tank multiple targets. (tabbing through and lacerating while building most aggro on skull) And possibly how to gain the highest possible TPS. I think these would be useful additions to the article for a new bear. Dbjojo 19:54, 17 April 2008 (UTC)DBjojoDbjojo 19:54, 17 April 2008 (UTC)

Some outdatedness Edit

Some of the specifically outdated items I noticed; Barkskin is now castable in form. Potions and other consumables are now usable in forms (Noted in an 'edit:' but should be mainlined). Survival Instincts (Druid ability) is a wonderful Ohcrap button. And with swipe now hitting everything in front or to the sides, I'm almost always at 100% rage, even with throwing in mauls, so frenzied regeneration becomes much more viable, as much for the +20% to healing done to you as for the 2000 healed directly. Too tired at the moment to add them myself... :-p --Azaram (talk) 04:22, 10 November 2008 (UTC)

Wall of Talent Text Crits You for over 9000Edit

Just wondering if anyone else thinks that the Druids as tanks#Tanking-related talents should be moved nearer to the end of this page. IMHO it breaks the page up and makes it harder to read... (Perhaps for someone considering making a druid tank, which'd seem like'd be the point of this page.) And do we really have to have sections about 2.0 threat changes?

Everything is up to date Edit

Well, everything except the 'Healing a druid tank' section. I have yet to find a healer with a preference yet though as they seemed to be happy healing pretty much any kind of tank.

Updated for Cataclysm (4.0.6) Edit

Added new and substantial information and updated/deleted outdated information.

I don't know why Fandyllic reverted a lot of my updates back to out-dated information... But whatever.

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