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Talk:Gilthares Firebough

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High elf or blood elf?Edit

This character uses a high elf model in the Burning Crusade beta, so the blood elf category may not be appropriate.--Aeleas 21:37, 23 October 2006 (EDT)

I agree. His status as a Horde-allied NPC is simply because he is not on good terms with the Alliance... and why would he be a blood elf anyway? He's a pirate/smuggler. It's unlikely he'd have any such allegiance, especially as it's unlikely he's been around Quel'thalas over the last decade. --Vorbis 19:13, 12 Dec 2006 (GMT)

He was a bloodelf pre 2.0.1 but now he is clearly a highelf.

He's wearing an awful lot of red for a high elf - but he definitely is one. He has blue eyes, reports to the helf in Ratchet (who's also a pirate), and has the helf voiceover. Artaxiel 07:55, 31 March 2008 (UTC)
Well, he could be one of the Original Blood elves, before they turned to the fel for power, the differences between High Elves and Blood Elves where mostly cultural rather then physical and in a way they still are. The fel only changed a small part in how thier body works. Both him and his captain could be Blood elves/High elves that mistrust humans for what Garithos did, but also don't think that the way Silvermoon is run now is the right way to go. So they don't answer to either Blood Elves or High elves. Maybe not even to the title anymore and just call themselfs elfs or just the Thalo'dan privateers, named after thier captain taking on any race as one of thier members. Until Blizzard fleshes out thier storyline we don't know.
But if they don't agree with either side they probably became unaligned to either side, and just did there own Neutral thing. You have to remember Blood Elves and High Elves are different more in Culture and morals then in physique, like Germans and Danes or English and Welsh. If they left Silvermoon before the whole Fel thing happened, they would still have blue eyes. If they also think Blood Elf culture is taking the revenge thing a bit to far, then they would also be more mellow in thier talking and won't say things like "Death to all who opose us".
I think the message here is not to think so black and white. They might not belong to either faction, just as the dwarves in Booty Bay probably don't answer to Ironforge anymore (with the exception maybe of the Gryphon master) or the Tauren Fleet master to Mulgore for that matter. Besides most High elves left the Alliance after the second war, with a few of those that actually used to fight (not even all of them), choosing to remain with their new found friends. Basically this is already what now is Blood Elf vs High Elf. The split was already there after the Second war. So if he is from that period, he wouldn't have been a member of the Alliance anymore in the first place :).
--Dehnus 21:28, 31 March 2008 (UTC)
Just because he is a high elf doesn't mean he is a member of the alliance. There are high elves part of the Shadowsworn and studying necromancy in Scholomance. We are just trying to figure out what category he fits under. As a side note- please try to work out your posts in advance instead of modifying it 10 times. You can use the "Show Preview" button to show what the changes you made look like before you make it permanent. Welcome to the Wiki!--Blayaden 16:16, 1 April 2008 (UTC)
The edits where mostly because I saw spelling and grammar errors afterwards,and in general being new and still adapting to system. I just mend more that the catagory might be undetermined. Like the dwarves in BootyBay. If he was a member of the Blood Elves in the beginning before they started using the fell to feed thier addiction, he might still dress and act like a Blood Elf. Whatever reason he had to leave Silvermoon is just not known. Furthermore with my post I mend to say that Blood Elves are basically High elves, and that the difference is mostly cultural/morals rather then racial. Sure using the fel has changed a few things in their general racial make up, but they are only minor.
Now provided that it is mostly a cultural difference, of wanting revenge, one could rather say that he is just an Elf not belonging to either culture/faction/country/whatever. Unless he says so himself, or blizzard states he is one kind or the other. I think we can better just refer to him for what he is. A Privateer, race Elf, member of the Thalo'dan Privateers.--Dehnus 11:53, 2 April 2008 (UTC)
A small addendum that just sprung to my mind. He migth be a Blood elf that was jailed BEFORE they started using the Fel to feed thier addiction. His eyes would still be his natural colour, he would dislike the Alliance and would still dress in red not trying to hide it. A big difference I notice between his captain and him, is that his captain refers to the humans as zealots and more like they are a group of madmen rather then the Alliance as a whole. While he sees them as the Alliance and calls the Alliance a sham. Although I have to admit, he was a quest since before TBC, maybe back then his ship was just sunk, but now the storyline has progressed 2 more years, 1 year pre TBC 1 year Crusading.(storywise and in real life 3 year aniversery of wow). So if the quest is situated in the PRE TBC days, his ship would have sunk atleast 2 years ago (maybe even longer since there is no word on how long that captain has been there to ask you to take out the zealots). But before that he left Quel Thalas and/or Silvermoon, joined a band of privateers and sailed with them adding even more time between his home and where he is now.
He could just be a Blood Elf that never touched the Fel or simply never was allowed to touch the fel energy due to being locked up. I am sorry to make a separate edit out of this, but it just sprung to my mind, so I thought I better add it as a separete section then editting my previous text. Making it easier for the history to track.--Dehnus 13:17, 2 April 2008 (UTC)

Alright, now you are just overcomplicating things! There is no need to speculate that much on a minor character. He is physically a high elf in his model and voice, and makes no comments on his blood elf brethren- all we can deduce is that he is a high elf. (and technically he is not the only high elf to still wear read- since the Theramore Infiltrators do too) If we were to ask these questions for all high/blood elven npc's then I think the whole section would sink!--Blayaden 14:57, 2 April 2008 (UTC)

Heh, well I just mend more or less he could just be a Blood Elf or a High Elf. If he didn't touch the fel magic and left Silvermoon before that time, he might still call himself a Blood elf. His Captain, probably atleast, calls himself a High elf. But let's just see them for what they are, ELFS. No affiliation to either group (since it is more a group name for political ideas, culture and moral then a race name) and like many NPC's just doing his own thing :D. BTW don't those Theramore infiltrator Elves wear a more Earth Tone red and black? sure they wear some red, but it is mostly not so bright and vibrant more like the red of clay and leaves of a tree. The red and black they wear is not as bright and contrasted (read clashing) as the Blood Elves usually wear, but I gues that is beside the point hehe. Sorry for this long posts, I just love the lore and have been a Warcraft fan since part 1. So I tend to get caried away with these things.

PS:His model is the same model as a blood elf, they just change the colour glow of the eyes which basically is a texture plus. --Dehnus 16:02, 4 April 2008 (UTC)

We shouldn't assume too much. "Besides most High elves left the Alliance after the second war, with a few of those that actually used to fight (not even all of them), choosing to remain with their new found friends. " - Most High elves that left, the vast majority, were later Blood Elves. The majority of those who chose to remain High Elves themselves stayed with the Alliance. The ones at Scholomance were there anyways and may have not been affiliated with the High Elves of the Alliance to begin with. Doomhand (talk) 20:10, 20 July 2008 (UTC)

You people are reading way too much into the color eyes which was just an oversimplification by Blizzard. Kael'thas and Alleria always had green eyes, does that mean they were always blood elves? He is hostile to the Alliance, wears all red, follows blood elf naming conventions, and believes it has failed him. I say he is a blood elf. Zarnks (talk) 02:05, 2 November 2008 (UTC)

I think he is a High elf. He is connected to Captain Thalo'thas Brightsun, whose name also could be seen by some to mean he is a Blood elf just like Gilthares Firebough, but he is a High elf. Rolandius Paladin (talk - contr) 02:27, 2 November 2008 (UTC)

He is definetly not a high elf. Only a blood elf would have a last name like firebough, wear all red, and feel the Alliance betrayed him. He is even hostile to players ingame and Horde pvp. It also explains why the Alliance attacked him and called him a traitor. His picture should not be in the high elf article. In his own words "I was called an enemy and threat to the Alliance." "Me! A threat to their great sham of an Alliance?"

Captain Brightsun is probably a high elf albeit an unusual one that dislikes the Alliance. Zarnks (talk) 07:53, 2 November 2008 (UTC)

Doesn't Brightsun sound just as much as a Blood elf name as Firebough? Rolandius Paladin (talk - contr) 09:55, 2 November 2008 (UTC)
Blood elf and High elf names aren't just similar- They are the SAME. There are many names that could go both ways... Sunchaser, Shadecloak, Summerdrake, Sunsworn, Dawnblade... notice a pattern? He isn't a blood elf just by his name. If he was truly a blood elf, he would have his voice changed like all the other pre-BC blood elves.--Blayaden (talk) 16:00, 2 November 2008 (UTC)

Brightsun is a high elf name. Names relating to fire which blood elves adore are their territory. You will not see a High elf with names like Firebough or Firehand. Clearly Firebough is intended to be a blood elf. It would explain why the Alliance attacked him. Zarnks (talk) 19:19, 2 November 2008 (UTC)

First off, I listed BOTH high elf and blood elf names. THEY ARE SIMILAR IF NOT THE SAME. High elves have always had a fascination with the sun and fire since their departure from the night elves. Second- He was the survivor of a ship destroyed by Theramore cannoneers, not because it was a blood elf ship (or because HE was a blood elf) but because it was said that the cannons will fire on any ship that does not meet its requirements. He was just unlucky, and brandished as a spy/traitor. He could have been a human or dwarf and his fate would have been the same. And finally- He does NOT have a unique voice. Its the same as any other high elf. (or blood elf pre-BC)--Blayaden (talk) 21:26, 2 November 2008 (UTC)

He specifically says they called him a enemy and threat to the Alliance. They wouldn't do that to any random high elf. Theramore has had issues before with Blood elves like with Ithania. He looks(other then his eyes) and acts like a blood elf. Zarnks (talk) 02:00, 3 November 2008 (UTC)

Theramore zealots. You don't just let a survivor from a suspicious ship go free do you? You just proved my point. As for his behavior, it seems no different than any other person in his position. For his brief appearance he shows no affiliation to either race. It just so happens that only horde can free him from his bonds. If the people who captured him weren't part of the Alliance, it would probably be a "Neutral Quest" and Brightsun would send Alliance players to do his dirty work as well.
He has a high elf model and a high elf voice. But he has red clothes. The page says that. It has speculation. It doesn't need anything else. Lets just let it go. I'm starting to loose my sanity on the subject.--Blayaden (talk) 03:03, 3 November 2008 (UTC)
I agree with Blayden. If you read the lore, there has been and still are some Theramore troops, and I am guessing "zealots" would be a good example, that just plain do no trust other races, in differing degrees of course. Some troops are suspicious of the orcs, some are suspicious of the high elves, some are suspicious of the blood elves, some are suspicious of the half-orcs, some are suspicious of the half-humans, etc. This would mean that he could be a high elf and still be someone they would have captured. Rolandius Paladin (talk - contr) 04:33, 3 November 2008 (UTC)

Gilthares would not give quests to the Alliance period. He does not display hostility to just the Theramore zealots but the entire Alliance calling it a "great sham". Unlike his friend Brightsun he is not neutral to Alliance and is infact hostile to their players. Zarnks (talk) 03:42, 5 November 2008 (UTC)

As Blayden pointed out above, the Theramore Infiltrators wear red but are on Theramore's side. Gilthares is just a high elf that is mad that he was captured. Rolandius Paladin (talk - contr) 03:47, 5 November 2008 (UTC)

I'm not basing on this color of his colors but rather his attitude and firebased name. If you want to talk about his outfit there is the fact that his vanilla outfit which was shared by blood elves in Azashara. Fire.jpg There is decent reason to think he is a blood elf. Zarnks (talk) 04:11, 5 November 2008 (UTC)

If he was intended to be a blood elf they would have given him a blood elf model! His model was changed with BC. Ever heard of a ret-con? The page has speculation. Thats all that is needed. (I apologize for my earlier harsh post, I'll try not to let it happen again)--Blayaden (talk) 04:19, 5 November 2008 (UTC)
You do realize that blood elves and high elves (currently) use the same model right, just different skins. So technically he is using the blood elf model. And the same argument can be made about his old (pre-bc) model, where he used a Blood elf one rather than the High elf one. User:Coobra/Sig3 07:10, 5 November 2008 (UTC)
Which skin is he currently using? If it is a blood elf skin then he in all probability is a blood elf. If it is a high elf skin then I don't think Blizzard "made a mistake" when they changed it. Rolandius Paladin (talk - contr) 07:41, 5 November 2008 (UTC)
/shrug. But his eyes are blue, thats usually part of the high elf skin versions. User:Coobra/Sig3 08:09, 5 November 2008 (UTC)
Same as always: What's the source that BE can't have blue eyes and viceversa? --N'Nanz (talk) 09:39, 5 November 2008 (UTC)
Well either way, blood elf or high elf, I don't think Blizzard "accidently" changed the appearance of Gilthares. Rolandius Paladin (talk - contr) 10:07, 5 November 2008 (UTC)
The elves part of the "Sin'dorei" movement were survivors of the destruction of Quel'thelas. (90% of the population) They were desparate. They followed Kael'thas without question. High elves outside silvermoon (and even some IN) were disgusted and horrified at the actions their bretheren took. They remained high elves for this reason, and many others stayed high elves simply because they weren't there. With the exception of the high elves in Lordaeron, the elves in Stormwind, Theramore, or any other city didn't loose their homes, and they were not desperate. They had no need to resort to such actions.
Another point about "blue eyed blood elves", think about it this way- Both blood elves and high elves suffer from arcane withdrawal. Blood elves choose to siphon energy to feed their addiction. High elves make a conscious effort NOT to. THAT is why there aren't any "blue eyed blood elves" why would they hold back? They have no reason to.
Blood elves are the survivors of Quel'thelas. High elves want little to do with them, or their reckless practices. Firebough is part of a shipping company. (whether its piracy or not is not explained) He was most likely elsewhere or at sea when silvermoon was attacked, thus, he is not likely part of the blood elf movement.
If blizzard had wanted him to be a blood elf, they would have given him a blood elf model and voice. I think his "old model" argument is now void, because in the Ghostlands Quel'dorei Wraiths use the same model.(Both male and female) Quel'dorei. HIGH elves. It was intentional. All other "blood elves" were changed. Its not likely to be a mistake. There is nothing left to say. --Blayaden (talk) 17:37, 5 November 2008 (UTC)

Good absumptions but "EHI, THIS IS A WIKI"... --N'Nanz (talk) 09:04, 6 November 2008 (UTC)

I don't really understand what you mean by that statement.--Blayaden (talk) 15:47, 6 November 2008 (UTC)
Could you clarify what "EHI, THIS IS A WIKI" means? Rolandius Paladin (talk - contr) 02:29, 7 November 2008 (UTC)

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