Talk:High elf

Misleading Info

"High elves get along extremely poorly with night elves and even worse with blood elves. " -I'm too lazy to check the RPG books, though I don't doubt this is true, but the only Night Elf - High Elf relations we've witnessed were Kael and Tyrande/Maiev interacting in TFT, and as far as I remember they went [b]very[/b] well. This needs to be addressed & cleared up.

"Dath’Remar symbolically took the name Sunstrider ("He who walks the day")" -As of "War of the Ancients", Dath'Remar always had that name. So... inaccurate.

--Pure.Wasted 07:11, 30 September 2006 (EDT)

I've cited the night elf relations thing just for you. :-) I didn't really think about citations when I wrote that information down. I should have. Ideally if everythings cited, people can decide individually whether to accept something as canon or not based on the sources.

The Dath'Remar thing was from one of the RPG books. I'll remove it. It was really just a sidenote anyways, so if different sources disagree we might as well get rid of it. --Kinst 20:30, 4 November 2006 (EST)

Also, [1] agrees with you, so I think it's safe to say you're right. --Kinst 21:11, 4 November 2006 (EST)

"was from one of the RPG books."

While it was mentioned in the RPG books(the RPG is not the original source of that information so does not diserve any blaim) its actually originally from from the official Blizzard website, [History of WArcraft. It is also an in-game book within World of Warcraft of Warcraft itself, The_Founding_of_Quel'Thalas.

"Dath'Remar, who had taken the name Sunstrider (or "he who walks the day"), sought out places of considerable ley power upon which to build a new homeland for his people."

This is just a point where WoW and novels don't always agree, in the Dath'remar article I took a middle-ground on the issue, stating he chose to take on his ancestral name. No reason to get into an arguement over which is more valid the game or the books. Kint if you would like to resinsert that information and if it fits in the article go right ahead, just try to stay neutral about it.Baggins 15:07, 30 December 2006 (EST)

High Elves

Anybody see the irony involved in "High" elves subcoming to addiction? I wonder if the word high sparked Metzen's idea for Blood Elves. --Xmuskrat 13:15, 16 Dec 2005 (EST)

Oh my god... I never thought of it that way 0_0. Saimdusan

Population

~~Modified due to a Blizzard moderator disputing population data. See http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.aspx?FN=wow-general&T=5089577&P=1. Caydiem's exact wording follows for reference:

"There are still some High Elves in the land, but the majority of those once known as the Quel'dorei no longer fit the bill of "High Elf".

Your comparison with Gnomeregan is a logical conclusion to draw, but incorrect. The Gnomes managed to evacuate a good percentage of their people from their home as it was corrupted from within. Ironforge was close by; they were able to save a good number of their people. Naturally they were indebted to the Dwarves and, by extension, the Alliance, so they fight for their cause.

The High Elves had less of a chance to flee, as they were surrounded by the vast bulk of the Scourge army as they pressed in and destroyed the Sunwell. Still, some survived, certainly enough to show a presence, right?

And so they did after the destruction of Quel'thalas, fighting for the Alliance, but with the destruction of the Sunwell they found an ever-increasing need, an addiction, for magical power. The remaining Elves were placed under the command of a man named Garithos, who was grossly intolerant of other races and drove the Elves into near-suicidal situations in the hopes they would no longer be his problem.

These remnants of the High Elves -- named Blood Elves in remembrance of their people -- were not stupid, and the commands from their "Alliance" became more and more ludicrous. It was only through the help of the Naga that they were able to survive these grim tasks; time and again, they appeared to aid Prince Kael'thas and his men. The Blood Elves came to realize they could no longer trust in the Alliance. When the offer was extended to join the Naga in service of Illidan Stormrage -- and perhaps find a cure to their addiction to magic -- Kael took it, leaving the Alliance behind.

In short, High Elves are not playable because there are very few true "High Elves" left -- far less so than Gnomes. While there are Blood Elves in much larger supply, they are busy with other pursuits alongside Illidan. You'd certainly not see them fighting side by side with the Alliance anytime soon, not after such betrayal."

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Honestly, the war3 manual states that the elves of Quel'Thalas withdrew from the allaince of thier own accord after the second war with the small exceptions of still sending some priests and sorceresses to help. How were they then betrayed by an allinace they were no longer a member of?

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"I just woke up and am reciting this from memory, so I apologize.

Regardless, the sense of betrayal is there -- in the complete disregard for their kind shown by Garithos as they worked under his command. "

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Thats lovely Cay,

Now answer the OP's question please.

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"What, that we're not adding new races?

Whoever said that we're not adding new races? We haven't announced any details regarding the expansion. I'm not going to refute what is sheer speculation and hearsay. "

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Yeah, awesome bedtime story there. But since when does Lore keep you guys from adding stuff to the game?

Undead allied with Tauren ring a bell?

Night elves, the biggest bunch of xenophobes in the game wouldn't just hop over to the alliance side either. Especially not under a leader like Staghorn.

Just let the alliance have another elf race, and we'll take Pandaren.

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"There is lore supporting everything in the game currently, Night Elves and Forsaken included, if you know where to look. :) "

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Oh Caydiem, *coughs* I'm sorry to correct you on this, but you're wrong. Let's compare numbers here.

According to Lands of Conflict (a book in the Official Blizzard Approved Warcraft RPG game), Stormwind has a grand population of 200,000 people, and 10% of that population are high elves. That comes to a grand total of 20,000 high elves, true high elves in the city of Stormwind alone. Moving along, this is the numbers of the high elves in the Eastern Kingdoms.

Azeroth

Blasted Lands: 2,000 (5% are high elven, living in Nethergarde)

Duskwood: 5,000 (5% are high elven)

Elwynn Forest(not counting Stormwind): 10,000 (15% are high elven)

Redridge Mountains: 2,000 (3% are high elven)

Stormwind: 200,000 (10% are high elven)

Westfall: 6,000 (5% high elven)

Lordaeron

The Hinterlands: 13,000 (5% high elven)

Kul Tiras: 10,000 (3% high elven)

Zul'Aman: 20,000 (5% high elven)

Infact, guess what the numbers suggest? There are more true high elves in the world than gnomes! Need I mention the little fact that hehe, the only trolls in the Horde come from one SMALL Tribe???

The numbers stack against your excuse Caydiem.

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"The Warcraft RPG game has not yet been updated to properly reflect current numbers as they stand in World of Warcraft, as I understand it. ;) "

-- Kinst 17:15, 13 Oct 2005 (EDT)

Oh please. Both Lands of Conflict and World of Warcraft are based in year 25 after the Dark Portal, so it is up to date.

-- Iluvatar

What, never heard of a retcon? I'm sorry (not meaning to be rude here), but the RPG books take the back seat to actual game lore, especially when you consider the fact that Lands of Conflict came out before WoW. We'll have to wait and see what the high elven population is at when Lands of Mystery comes out.

--Kakwakas 12:00, 12 Jan 2006 (EST)

Lands of Conflict takes place before World of Warcraft RPG sourcebook, and before the events of the world of warcraft MMO(according to the World of Warcraft RPG sourcebook). Many more high elves have either become Blood Elves, or become neutral since that time. The numbers in lands of conflict could also be influenced by Blood Elves who were disguised as High Elves when in Alliance lands(as mentioned in Alliance & Horde compendium). I do not see much of error here if any considering that things have changed since the time Lands of Conflict takes place and later events. Also the RPG implies most of the High Elves died when Quel'Thalas was destroyed. The numbers in lands of conflict doesn't exactly contradict that fact, it would just mean that there used to be even more High Elves, than those mentioned in the book. Also its a little hard to compare how many gnomes exist in the alliance at the time of Lands of Conflict considering that only a few articles ever mention gnomes or give numbers at all. All we know at the time of World of Warcraft very few alliance high elves exist, so that implies that their numbers have been decreasing since the time of Lands of Conflict. Baggins 20:32, 14 April 2006 (EDT)

Model Replacement in TBC

Information has surfaced that High Elves' current models will be replaced with Blood Elf models in the expansion. Like Forest Trolls, the High Elves will simply be a skin of the blood elf model, which is presumably replacing current blood elf NPCs too. The NPC skins have pale, white skin like the original elves (in contrast to that of blood elves), and oddly enough, GLOWING blue eyes. This means that every elf species in the game has glowing eyes. Interesting, no? Omacron

Very! Not that I don't trust you -- but do you have any source for that? I'd like to read more! --Pure.Wasted 12:36, 1 October 2006 (EDT)

I'd love to, but that DMCA takedown notice prevents me. :P. Seriously, it's in the TBC model viewer. Anyone with it can verify, just use the blood elf PC model, go under "options" and select "use NPC skins". Omacron

Ah no probs then, I'll wait for the screenshots to come out when they do. Can't be long now. :) --Pure.Wasted 13:04, 1 October 2006 (EDT)

HE aren't supposed to have glowing eyes... Maybe it'll get changed. Ehhh, nevermind, this is WoW. It'll be canon from now on. --Kakwakas 14:54, 1 October 2006 (EDT)

No need to get all snippy. I think this makes more sense than what we had before. Night Elves have glowing eyes and they haven't really been around magic, so to speak, for thousands of years. You'd think High Elves, what with their Sunwell and everything, would. And if that explanation doesn't hold up, maybe this is actually a side-effect of the destruction of the Sunwell, hence both Blood Elves and High Elves now having glowy eyes. I mean, things do change. That's a good thing. --Pure.Wasted 15:18, 1 October 2006 (EDT)

That's true about NE there, but their eyes are usually silver. Hmm, high elven priests in WC3 had glowing blue eyes, and it's been shown in other instances that individuals with extensive Holy Light powers also get glowing eyes. Maybe the reason the remaining high elves didn't side with Kaelthas has to do with their faith. Then again, arcane magic use can also have the same effect on some races. --Kakwakas 23:34, 1 October 2006 (EDT)

Is the picture shown in the article one of a high elf Mage in Stormwind? AzraelOpacus 00:21, 25 October 2006 (EDT)

Yes, that's Elsharin. Meant to label it when I uploaded it.--Aeleas 00:22, 25 October 2006 (EDT)

High Elves as future race

Who thinks that it would be awesome if a few expansion packs later (or later in Warcraft lore), the scattered high elves will gather together, find an alternate source of magic, erect a new capital, and cement their place in the alliance? I think that the night elves should respect the high elves now, seeing as the only High Elves that remain are the ones who would never resort to demonic magic, and if they had been alive 10 000 years ago, would not have joined the highborne if not for the choice of their ancestors. I think focusing more on the high elves would be good; they are a very interesting race now as they must struggle to keep their heritage alive and are disgusted by the blood elves, etc. I think the largest high elf concentration is on Theramore, so perhaps the high elves could make a large settlement somewhere in Kalimdor.

High elves are already playable, as Blood Elves. I don't think there's a sufficient difference between the two for Blizz to make them a playable race- also, there's not enough High Elves to support a playable race.

Um, it sort of annoys me that people consider Blood Elves as High Elves still; High Elves isn't the name of their species, like Human for example, it is the name of the faction of Elves that practice arcane magic and stuff but not demonic. So High Elves and Blood Elves are both basically just this species of Elf now. I agree they are the same species, but High Elf is not really the name of the species. And on another note, just because they are the same model doesn't mean we shouldn't get to play as either, I mean it's not like there would be too many races (and High Elves are still an important part of the alliance, so I think they should play a part in the story). -Blackmorsel

How was high elf not the name of the species? Have they been 'thing' elf all this time, but Blizz forgot to tell us? If night elves are a distinct species, then so are high elves. Personally I think blood elves are probably best described as a sub-species of high elf. -- Kirkburn (talk) 19:22, 19 October 2006 (EDT)

You are right, high elves was the name of their species, it's just that I think now high elf is basically the name of a faction, because the majority are called blood elves, so it would make more sense if instead of saying "true high elves" they should just be called high elves, and the blood elves shouldn't be considered high elves at all (even though I know the two are at this point still the same species). --Blackmorsel

I know what you're getting at :) It's wonderfully unclear, isn't it. English doesn't have the right words to explain it, really :P (PS. Sign your comments please!) -- Kirkburn (talk) 13:19, 20 October 2006 (EDT)

Now that that's cleared up, I still think the high elves should be a race eventually, once they've had some time to regroup and reproduce a bit... and by that time maybe the Blood Elves will have mutated from the demonic magic so that the two will be separate races. I think their leader could be Vereesa (well unless she's become blood-ified). Their starting location could be Theramore, considering that's probably their highest concentration. It's just that they were such an important part of the alliance, and still could be, that it seems weird for them not to be playable. I can understand the argument of high elves and blood elves being too similar to have both, but the argument that there are too few high elves, well just look at the Trolls... they are all from one darn tribe for crying out loud. -- Blackmorsel

High Elves as a playable race would be great... but I doubt Blizzard's going to do it. Metzen seems to really want to replace High Elves with Blood Elves. The remaining High Elves will probably just have Half-Elf descendents who will have Quarter-Elf descendents... and then they would have too little Elven blood for it to make any difference. *cries* I also don't think the Blood Elves will mutate at all, seeing as that they're a playable race now.

Half-elfs decendents are still "half-elfs according to the lore. Apparenly elven blood remains dominate. Similar to with "half-human half-ogres".Baggins 01:38, 21 November 2006 (EST)

Sun-Blessed

I added the term sun-blessed to the racebox due to a refrence to them being called sun-blessed in one of the warcraft rpg books.Baggins 13:43, 21 November 2006 (EST)

you know

the "old" high elf pictures should be removed. I mean, there's lots of high elves to take pictures from in Allerian Stronghold now. Why the old pictures featuring protruding eyes?

Until patch 2.01, the new models won't be officially released, and thus to the greater populace of players, high elves still look like the "old" model. Varghedin 12:27 (CET), 22 Nov 2006

I made the old pictures, but I don't play WoW anymore, so I can't make more. If you want more pictures of the new models, make some and add them on. ^_^ I think my pictures are really pretty, so I'll be sad to see them go, but oh well. -Kinst 17:09, 22 November 2006 (EST)

It might be nice, however if there was a small article with the old pictures, discussing the old models and listed with the "removed" from game template.Baggins 09:23, 22 November 2006 (EST)

Oddly enough there are a couple of spots where some of the old high elve models can still be found with new high elf models in the PTR, such as at the Quel'lithian lodge. I'm sure that'll be fixed before the patch release though.Baggins 02:55, 23 November 2006 (EST)

Not Paladins

In the presumed classes section, I removed Paladin. High Elves simply cannot become paladins. --Blackmorsel

Why do we list classes and mounts for a race that is not, and not ever likely to be, in the game? I don't see what the point of that "information" is.--Aeleas 15:50, 24 November 2006 (EST)

Well, for one thing, it's much easier than having two Racebox templates. For another, it has nothing to do with being playable- you'll note that all Nathrezim are Dreadlords and all Pit Lords are Pit Lords.--Ragestorm 16:19, 24 November 2006 (EST)

I think it's pretty silly too. And it could give the wrong idea to those who've never played WoW. --Kinst 16:28, 24 November 2006 (EST)

Since there are high elves that still practice "Holy Light" there are a few rare high elf paladinsTemplate:Cite, according to the Warcraft RPG. Though most become priests. Does it need to be mentioned in the racebox? not really...Baggins 16:32, 24 November 2006 (EST)

Fine. You write the template. Same info, sans classes. --Ragestorm 16:42, 24 November 2006 (EST)

I don't see a reason to have more than one templates really... I've been using the single template myself to list classes only mentioned in the rpg specified for certain characters when applicable(Ex. Garona).Baggins 16:46, 24 November 2006 (EST)

We seem to be at cross-purposes. I'm takling about Racebox templates. How can we have one Racebox template if you want to remove speculated class info? we either be unprofessional and leave it blank, or we sound like a broken record and list "not applicable." Continue on a usertalk.--Ragestorm 16:55, 24 November 2006 (EST)

Ranger Lord

With Ranger Lord Hawkspear, is Ranger Lord his rank, like Ranger General, or is he just a lord and a ranger. If it is a rank, then he is probably the highest ranking High Elf on Azeroth. Wouldn't that make him the leader of the Silvermoon Remnant (keeping in mind that many High Elves are probably citizens of human nations)? Mannerheim

Blood Elf picture removed

There was a picture with a blood elf that was called "Elven male". I replaced it with a picture of a high elf. I know that they are the same species, but the blood elves have their own page. --Blackmorsel

Blackmorsel, that is actually a high elf (Gilthares Firebough). Look at the eyes. They're blue. You don't get to be a blood elf just by wearing red clothing. I prefer this image to the other: its a smaller picture and contrasts with the female one which is standing up, and it also shows that high elves are so similar in appearance to blood elves that you have to look closely to see the difference. --Vorbis 10:07, 16th Dec 2006 (GMT)

Well its a fact most high elves threw away all their red and black clothing in fear of being seen as blood elves. Course there are exceptions to the rule.

Also if he's if he's connected to a horde quest, and not neutral to alliance that would also imply him to be blood elf. If he's neutral to alliance, then he's probably another faction. Ultimately though its usually better to use the voice check, if he has voice of a night elf, they are usually high Elf, if he has voice of a blood elf he's a blood elf. The voice and eye thing are not a 100% rule however, as not all blood elves models or voices have been altered yet. It looks like he's more likely part of the Steemwheedle Cartel if he's connected to Rachet. Especially if he's under Captain Brightsun.Baggins 12:32, 16 December 2006 (EST)

He was under the Blood Elf category here on wowwiki, and although his picture works well because he is sitting and it's smaller, he just doesn't look like a high elf. One of the things that the blood elves did is they adopted hairstyles that went against the norm. Having spiky hair and a goatee fits that description to me (along with his red clothes, although they aren't what makes him look blood elven.) I'll leave it be, but it still doesn't look right on the high elf page. --Blackmorsel

We can replace it with a more standard represenation of a high elf, considering he is independent non-alliance, steemwheedle high/blood elf, rather than more common, Alliance high elves.Baggins

Nature Appreciation

Is there any further info or citation for the high elven and and dwarvern alliance due to their appreciation of nature? Originally, before the addition of Night Elves it was implied High Elves were also druids, yet since much of that has been retconned, we're left with an odd sense of nature appreciation for them to share. --Zeal (talk - contr - web) 13:48, 23 December 2006 (EST)

The druid and nature appreciation thing has been refrenced in later sources including the RPG. There is a blood elf druid in Burning Crusade even. The designers have said they were inspired to put the floating gardens, and strange but beatuiful flora in blood elven lands because of former high elven appreciation of nature.Baggins 13:52, 23 December 2006 (EST)

Ah good to know, though that brings up why they went the nature path after leaving the Night Elves in the first place. Still, citation is needed imo, and i think that stuff needs to be added, as druidism is under represented here. --Zeal (talk - contr - web) 13:57, 23 December 2006 (EST)

I've already cited the refrences to high elven druidism practiced by elven rangers, and passed onto half-elves, in the article, and half-elf articles look under culture, and faith. Citations to other information can be found in their respective and related articles, you might check out retcon under the article for high elven druidism for even more refrences and citations. I won't refrence the floating garden thing until I find the original article on it. It might have been the www.worldofwarcraft.com article discussing the design for Silvermoon city. So I recommend looking there, if not there its somewhere on the website.Baggins 14:01, 23 December 2006 (EST)

Ah my bad, missed that bit there, sorry. As for citation, i was refering to the section "New World Patterns and the Thallassian Kingdom". Where is this information from? I'm suspecting WC1 or WC2, neither of which i'm familiar enough with. --Zeal (talk - contr - web) 14:06, 23 December 2006 (EST)

Well, first I'd recommend checking out the Warcraft II manual, which is located on this site somewhere, there is probably some information there. Try also checking under the article Source. As for further refrences to wild hammer dwarves and high elves appreciation of nature, it is discussed heavily in Lands of Conflict, and some in Alliance & Horde Compendium, and Alliance Player's Guide as well. I can try to get some citation from those sources when I have the time.Baggins 14:11, 23 December 2006 (EST)