About the abilties table, is it possible you could change it to match the layout of the other abilities tables? To reduce the rediculously large size of the information presented, we just used the rank 1 level and only listed skills/spells once.
I really like the work you've done, by the way. There's a lot here that you've taken care of. Snorelax 21:45, 28 Nov 2004 (EST)
Hunter Abilities Table discussion
I tried that approach at first but there are a ton of Hunter abililties and the primary table which would have occupied the Hunter Abilities page was roughly 2 - 2.5 screens (146 rows, or thereabouts) in length. Since Goldark asked that editors keep things short on initial pages and create linked pages for in-depth stuff, the way it is now was the best plan I could think of at the time, sorry it didn't fit the bill. When I began the Hunter Abilities tables, there really wasn't an example on the site to go by so I used the Rogue row templates as a jumping off point and customized them to be Hunter specific... ;)
As an aside, Goldark asked earlier if I could add a Rank column to the Hunter Abilities tables and I did try. There seems to be a problem with a 7 column table, however. I cannot seem to get it to work for me -- I tried many things and read everything I could find in the wiki.org help files on editing and/or creating and using templates in tables. Didn't find anything specific enough to help, unfortunately. If you or someone more knowledgeable with Wiki markup could look over my HunterAbililtyRowX templates and see why I can only add 6 columns, I would appreciate it. -- Arath 00:05, 29 Nov 2004 (EST)
Continuing the Hunter Abilities Table discussion...
There is a problem with the Hunter's Abilities table looking like the rest of the classes as suggested by Snorelax above.
It seems there are only a certain number of rows we can add at this point in the Wiki software's evolution. I cannot add all the first level abilities to the table due to this limitation. For the time being, I commented out the rows that will not render properly. If one chooses to edit the page, these rows can then be seen. That's how many rows that will get left out of the Hunter abilities table using this methodology (I don't know how many other classes will be short rows in their abilities tables).
The main thing that concerns me about making all the class abilities pages like this is that the visitor cannot see at a glance when they will acquire a given abiity due to the fact that only first level abilities are listed in the table. This effectively forces the individual to choose a particular ability and drill-down further just to see at what level the next rank is learned. Using this first level only methodology also leaves some level advancements off completely as they are Ranked higher than first level and therefore don't get shown on the initial table at all. So, for all intents and purposes, a totally uninformed visitor might think there was no ability skill-up for the level in question according to our documentation.
Can we not devise a methodology that will at least let the visitor know at what level they will acquire a given ability at first glance, so to speak, right there on the main abilities page? Certainly the more verbose descriptions and/or stategies and tactics of a given ability could be contained on a subsequent page(s). Are we simply regurgitating information that can be gained from any number of official and unofficial fan sites? If so, what's the whole point of the WoWWiki in the first place? Maybe I'm misunderstanding what it is WoWWiki is trying to do... ;)
Not that the way I originally chose to present Hunter Abilities information was any better than what Snorelax proposes, but I had originally tried to find the most intuitive and less-clicks-needed way of going about the above mentioned problem. Even though it wasn't the most attractive of layouts, it was very intuitive in that all the visitor had to do was click on the advancement level they were inquiring about to see both the level's available abilities and Rank upgrades.
Most of the WoWWiki's visitors will be searching for specific answers about their class' abilities and at what level and Rank these are acquired. They will use the WoWWiki site as a Warcraft encyclopedia, if you will. These visitors will want as much information on each drill-down into WoWWiki's database as possible. Is it not incumbent upon us as editors to make their visit as intuitive and easy to navigate as possible?
Anyway, just some thoughts on things, please take all my wanderings as grains of salt in that regard... ;)
My take on the layout options
"It seems there are only a certain number of rows we can add at this point in the Wiki software's evolution. I cannot add all the first level abilities to the table due to this limitation."
Vlad (the admin) has increased the limit to 20 copies of a given template per page. Given the Row1/Row2 alteration that gives 40 rows. You can increase that by adding a duplicate template with a different name, e.g. just tack a "b" or a "c" on the end of each one would give 80 or 120 rows respectively.
"The visitor cannot see at a glance when they will acquire a given abiity due to the fact that only first level abilities are listed in the table"
Indeed, I think that's a problem, and its one benefit of the original layout. Conversely though, you can't then see what upgrades you'll gain at Level X (as you can with the Hunter Abilities, you can only see the new abilities you'll get. I think the former is more important than the latter - yes, we could create a cross-index but it'd double the maintenance work. I'm not sure its worth it, but if people wish to add it then that's fine.
"Can we not devise a methodology that will at least let the visitor know at what level they will acquire a given ability at first glance, so to speak, right there on the main abilities page?"
"Is it not incumbent upon us as editors to make their visit as intuitive and easy to navigate as possible?"
Nicely said and very true. But that's not an easy thing to address, particularly within the limitations of the Wiki.
Running off on a slight tangent, all of these data tables are exactly that - data tables, which are best suited to a database oriented system which can be sorted, searched, filtered and so forth. There's no point us trying to completely duplicate systems such as Thottbot, and if people wish that extra flexibility, then I've no problem in redirecting them in that direction. I expect the more experianced players to go there if they just want game-data. For new players, its great we can show them what abilities will become available, as if you are looking at choosing a class its nice to see at a glance what all the different cool things they can do as they level up. But once you've started that process, if you want to see what you'll get at level 20 you'll probably go to Thottbot or ign or something. So I don't think we want to go to OTT on this.
Well, enough from me for now! -- Goldark 13:48, 30 Nov 2004 (EST)
Abilities table discussion
Thank you for the response, Goldark.
<< You can increase that by adding a duplicate template with a different name, e.g. just tack a "b" or a "c" on the end of each one would give 80 or 120 rows respectively. >>
I hadn't thought about creating duplicate row templates, that's a great idea and thanks for bringing that up. I will get that done soonest. Any word on the ability to have more than 6 columns in a table row template? Is that also a limitation of the current Wiki implementation? Been all over the Wiki.org help pages looking for an answer to no avail.
Uhmmm, not really since they only show when the first rank of an ability is available. One still must drill-down to get to a Level/Rank listing that gives further information. Nevertheless, I will go with the format currently being used and quit asking all these Wiki-n00b questions... lol
Just a sideline comment: The tables are difficult to read... the rows with a black background have black text in them, and are therefore unreadable unless highlighted.. I would attempt to correct it, but it appears this is the standard accross the WoW Wiki form.. as in the hunters link above is done the same way as well.
Hmm, I see white text myself. Did you change your schema in the personal settings perhaps? I'm using Monobook myself. None of the pages support the other schemas at the moment, though its something I've been meaning to investigate to see how they work. Also, have you over-ridden the default font settings in anyway? Any further info you can give would be useful if that doesn't help.
Anyone else seeing black text on the black background that can add to this? -- Goldark 14:29, 30 Nov 2004 (EST)
You are correct Goldark, I was using a different schema.... when reverting back to the Monobook all looks very well displayed. Sorry for the incorrect assement. Lewzephyr
No worries and thanks for raising it Lewzephyr - certainly, support for different skins is something that needs to be considered, and hopefully it can get added in sooner rather than later. -- Goldark 15:18, 30 Nov 2004 (EST)
- I removed a column (level) from the table and now the Description column is not left aligned! Argh! Help fix please. --Dracomage 16:08, 7 Dec 2005 (EST)
Bite has 9 levels not 8, table needs to be corrected -Dragoon_Jett
Some of the abilities are outdated. Example Spirit bond does not reflect the current game description. Requires updating. --Dracomage 08:58, 13 Jan 2006 (EST)
Range of pet skills
The range of the abilities Gore and Fire Breath should be checked. Gore is probably 5 yards, I doubt it's the case for Fire Breath though. Malusz 17:23, 14 August 2007 (UTC)
I have redesigned a lot of the look of the tables to attempt to make it easier to find abilities and for it to look better. I cannot find the icon for Kill Shot though. Some help would be appreciated.
Black Arrow is in the game its a spec in survival my 52 hunter has it. Halowseve15