Talk: Illidan Stormrage

Archived discussions: Talk:Illidan Stormrage/Archive 1

Classification

I think we can classify Illidan in his portait as a Satyr and not a a Night Elf. If you look at this picture you can see he has hooves and furry legs like a satyr and we all know he has horns... N'Nanz 13:40, 22 October 2006

Part night elf and part demon. I know that's the technical definition of a satyr, but Illidan has more demon than they do. Note the wings. --Ragestorm 10:02, 22 October 2006 (EDT)

I don't know. In my opinion it looks like a satyr with wings nor his skin color resemble a Night Elf. However Night Elf/Demon hibrid is the definition of a satyr. -N'Nanz 14:20, 22 October 2006

'Just another demon/NE hybrid' seems to be the only valid definition as of now.--K ) (talk) 14:06, 22 October 2006 (EDT)

The resemblance is there, but there are differences. For one thing, except for his horns and wings Illidan looks pretty much like regular night elf from the waist up, unlike satyrs. The other thing that occurs to me is that satyrs aren't nelf/demon hybrids so much as they're a whole different race, like the naga. Before Illidan's consumption of the Skull of Gul'dan, the only thing that distinguished him from other night elves was his eyes. Consuming the Skull didn't turn him into a "satyr", but I would say made him into something completely unique in the Warcraft universe. Whatever he is, he is the only one of his kind we have seen.--Illidan Rocks 12:29, 29 October 2006 (EST)

And as far as I know, NE bleed red, not Illidian...---Firelord- 21:20, 27 November 2006 (EST)

"he is the only one of his kind we have seen"

Well except for other Demon Hunters going into "Metamorphosis"-mode which is for limited periods of time btw... and lore goes out of its way to explain "Metamorphosis" appearance in the WC3 manual and rpg. However, there are other ways to go about taking on the "Metamorphosis" appearance besides drinking from skull of Gul'dan. I would argue the race could be called "Demon Hunters" except demon hunters can originate from other races including Humans, and high elves. I don't know if the appearance differs between races however. Give me time and I'll update the demon hunter article with more information, as I am working on updating all "class" articles with lore as I have the time.Baggins 13:24, 27 December 2006 (EST)

It has nothing to do with the metamorphosis spell- think of it as a way for all the warlock energies of the Skull to manifest during transformation. And you can't argue that the race could be called demon hunters, that's a class.-_Ragestorm, Head Bookkeeper 17:07, 27 December 2006 (EST)

For me, Illidan resembles more a Nathrezim than a Satyr - notice the wings and especially the horns - note Illidan's in the TFT intro, and during the play, and compare them to Dreadlords' and Satyrs' horns). Second, note that when Illidan meets Kil'jaeden, he has still night elf form! So we can say that the Skull of Gul'dan gave Illidan power to change into a more powerful demon-form than he would have through "normal", demon hunter way, but could revert back to his former state later. Illidan was fuelled by Kil'jaeden's fel powers to become more powerful, to make his task easier, and probably by doing so, Kil'jaeden made a way to find him wherever he goes. Again, note that demonic-Illidan in TFT could use "Metamorphosis" to change into demon-form. I would vote for Illidan being a unique being, because unlike the Satyr, he had warlock powers of Skull of Gul'dan and being already "connected" to demons by the means that all Demon Hunters are. --Sul'jin 19:36, 28 December 2006 (EST)

"It has nothing to do with the metamorphosis spell- think of it as a way for all the warlock energies of the Skull to manifest during transformation"

I agree, but all metemophosed demon hunters all look the same in game, :p...Baggins 19:42, 28 December 2006 (EST)

Hes not a Satyr hes a Demi-God

Demigod? Well, then most of powerful heroes would have this status as well (Thrall, Tyrande, etc.). I think that he's just very powerful individual, but not a demigod (yet). --Sul'jin 19:09, 29 December 2006 (EST)

I Guess the only possible Demi-God Hero would be Arthas... ---Firelord- 17:17, 4 January 2007 (EST)

The Lich King (Ner'zhul and Arthas conjoined) are more like a god. Demigod is a bit weak word for describing them.--Odolwa 23:51, 4 January 2007 (EST)

He's a satyr. By definition a satyr is any night elf who has willingly given himself over to demonic energies, so much so that he has become transformed -- obviously this is the case for Illidan, who meets all definitions of the criteria. The only difference is he's far omre powerful than any satyr on Azeroth, and his powers have also granted him the ability to fly and fully metamorphasize into a spectral demon. I think the only reason why people feel uncomfortable classifying him as such is because the satyrs we know in-game are pushovers, but we don't shy from calling Aspects dragons when we can one-shot weaker ones flying around behind Blackrock Mountain.

As to Firelord talking about night elf blood - night elves bleed purple. I've killed my fair share of them in War3.--Zexx 19:52, 4 January 2007 (EST)

I quote our dear Maiev Shadowsong: "Now Illidan is nor Night Elf, nor Demon, but something more..".

He's one of a kind, I would say.--Odolwa 02:22, 4 January 2007 (EST)

By what definition of a satyr? A satyr is a more specific definition than "any night elf who has willingly given himself over to demonic energies, so much so that he has become transformed". See the Satyr page. -- User:Kirkburn/Sig 20:32, 4 January 2007 (EST)

Blizzard sources don't say "satyr" they say "a mixure of night elf and demon." the Warcraft encyc give his demon type as "unique" [1]--Ragestorm (talk · contr) 20:37, 4 January 2007 (EST)

I think were missing a few things here. Satyrs are not demon/NE hybrids or night elves with a saturation of fel energy. Rather they are former highborne who gave themselves over to sargeras and became members of the burning legion through demonic corruption.

Illidan however transformed into a unique demon due to saturation of his body by the Fel energies of the Skull of Gul'dan. As for his appearance in front Kil'jaeden, that was either overlooked or propably confused by the cinematic creators. Anuragsahay 07:42, 15 April 2007 (EDT)

I have to agree with Sul'jin here. Illidan is definately closer to a Nathrezim than a Satyr. Sure he's got the furry legs and hooves, but note, dreadlords also have hooved feet. And Illidan's horns are also more reminiscent of a dreadlords horns rather than a satyrs. Also, one of my biggest reasons to believe Illidan is closer to a dreadlord, is the wings. Satyrs have never had wings, Dreadlords do. And finally, another big reason to believe Illidan is closer to a dreadlord. Remember when Illidan confronted Tichondrius in Felwood after consuming the Skull of Gul'dan? Tichondrius said something, i think he said "Who are you?" or something, but thats unimportant. Illidan responded "Let's see how confident you are against <bold>One of your own Kind.</bold> This all leads me to believe that Illidan is definately closer to a Nathrezim than a Satyr. Although, Illidan is clearly <bold>Not</bold> a Nathrezim or Satyr. He is definately unique, but he's just closer to Nathrezim than Satyr.

"You don't so much 'Kill' him as much as you sorta get in his way."

I'm thinking that the Illidan fight won't be so much Illidan trying to kill the players as the raid trying to block Illidan from doing something. Maybe a NPC to protect (that'd be new for a raid boss, I think). Then, when he gets low enough, he decides it isn't worth the trouble and leaves. That explains the "get in his way", as opposed to "be annoying" or "give him a workout" or something that doesn't imply a goal other than killing him. --Bobson 14:20, 21 November 2006 (EST)

Aw come on stop these rancid speculations ! He'll be killable, as any other boss from WoW, that's all ! But this death just won't be definitive.--K ) (talk) 15:06, 21 November 2006 (EST)

Just posted today at the offical BC FAQ:

Q: Will it be possible to kill Illidan in the Burning Crusade?

A: Illidan doesn't think so. As a matter of fact, he's probably thinking about destroying your character for simply entertaining the thought

--Bobson 16:47, 21 November 2006 (EST)

Well Kel'thuzad didn't think so either before we pwned his face ... And neither did Onyxia, nor Nefarian, nor Ragnaros, netc.--K ) (talk) 16:58, 21 November 2006 (EST)

Or C'Thun, or Archimonde, or Tichondrius, or going back so, so far... He'll be killable in terms of game mechanics, like it or not. The liklihood that he actually dies or stays dead is quite low.--Ragestorm 21:44, 21 November 2006 (EST)

Theres a diferace between dieing and "dieing". You cant kill Illidan. If he dose die it would be against someone like Arthas or Kil'Jaeden

I would certainly HOPE so. Anyway, often you'll kill somebody and their ghost will thank you for freeing them from whatever made them evil in life: the ghouls in EPL, Cerebras, Eranikus (back when the Scepter of the Shifting Sands was being assembled and his story had an ending). I don't know how that works, but evidently in WoW you can turn somebody good if you hit them hard enough and often enough. :p Balnazzar might be gone for good, btw, since I just can't think of any reason why he'd show up again. He was a pretty minor character in TFT, after all. Even if he's alive I'll be surprised if he makes another appearance.--Illidan Rocks 16:53, 29 December 2006 (EST)

Personally, I think the encounter will primarily be the raid group assaulting Illidan when aftter his life is less than half Kil'jaeden appears and starts bombing him the raid group and every other present NPC. The result being: you become friendly with the illidari- HAHAHAHA Anuragsahay 08:04, 15 April 2007 (EDT)

Lore vs. Tactics

What about making two pages, a la Kel'Thuzad, one for lore and one for tactics? --Tinkerer 16:24, 23 December 2006 (EST)

I agree, though personally I think, main article should link to the lore, and Illidan Stormrage (tactics) for example, should be for gameplay. Since in the long run there is more lore than there is tactics. I think Kel'Thuzad articles should be switched in a similar fashion as well.Baggins 16:28, 23 December 2006 (EST)

That's my plan. I refuse to have Illidan relegated to a page purely on how to beat him (as the many above discussions show, we're getting enough grief over the mere thought of killing him). It should be the other page that bears the name, like Illidan (tactics), Illidan Instance, or sume such. I suppose Kel'Thuzad should be switched as well. --Ragestorm, Head Bookkeeper 16:41, 23 December 2006 (EST)

Agreed. Lore first, tactics second. -- Kirkburn (talk) 17:06, 23 December 2006 (EST)

Lore should be primary, but it needs to be a little more neutral. The current page looks like an attempt to paint him as evil as possible just to justify killing him and taking his loot. A real lore page shouldn't read like a propaganda sheet from Maiev (who, note, has the same "betrayer" nickname - guess Furion liked tagging everyone who crossed him as "betrayers").Silme 10:09, 10 April 2007 (EDT)

It's not our fault that Blizzard has painted him as evil.Baggins 11:10, 10 April 2007 (EDT)

Blizzard hasn't painted him as evil the way the page currently does. Sure, the stories - likely sourced from the current night elf government, largely formed by the biased Malfurion - use negative adjectives, but when you strip the facts of the "spin", a lot of the things he's done - preserved the night elves' immortality by saving water from the well of eternity, weakened and nearly destroyed the Lich King, taking the offensive against the Burning Legion - seem pretty admirable. The page currently seems short on facts and long on spin. Maybe I'll try correcting that.Silme 16:45, 10 April 2007 (EDT)

Instance suggestion

This article or section includes speculation, observations or opinions possibly supported by lore or by Blizzard officials. It should not be taken as representing official lore.

Here's my view of how it should go:

1. Illidan, seeing a freed Maiev, stalks toward her.
2. Akama and the players "get in his way" as she channels something. [NEXT, EXCITING STUFF HAPPENS WITH RAID! OOH!]
3. Tyrande returns him to his cage.
4. Illidan bursts free of his cage, and screams, "You cannot defeat me! I am darkness incarnate! I will not be denied!"
5. The raid group and NPCs are powerless as he wings away.

You'll understand the plot twist when you consider who else called himself "darkness incarnate."--Ragestorm, Head Bookkeeper 17:51, 28 December 2006 (EST)

As long as it's not something taffertastic like you beating him to an inch of his life and him going "YOU ARE NOT PREPARED!!! LOLOLOL!!" and bubble hearths out.--Zexx 17:54, 28 December 2006 (EST)

I'm the Head Bookkeeper; when I make a proposition, it's lore-possible.--Ragestorm, Head Bookkeeper 17:55, 28 December 2006 (EST)

Ragestorm would overrule Metzen if he had the chance. -- Kirkburn (talk) 17:58, 28 December 2006 (EST)

I think I know enough about Ragestorm to render this opinion: he would do a better job than Metzen has with the WoW story. No question in my mind.--Illidan Rocks 16:19, 5 February 2007 (EST)

Ragestorm would not replace Metzen. trust me. i don't even have to know the guy to know that much. Metzen does an amazing job considering the factors. And besides, Ragestorm doesn't create the lore, he studies it, like i do. Metzen made the majority of everything Warcraft. Ragestorm just knows alot about what Metzen has done, As do I. So please people stop saying that Metzen isn't doing his job right and that someone who knows lore should replace him. Anyways, back on topic, i know where your comin from with your suggestion Rage, but honestly it's really hard to tell whats gonna happen with that fight, Illidan might not escape. If there is a quest that says "Kill Illidan" Then he is dead in the storyline. And the death quote on Illidan's Tactics page, just makes me assume that yes, you do in fact kill him for good. although it is certainly possible that Illidan will devise some manner of escape, but unlikely really. i mean Vashj is dead, Akama and Kael are both traitors, albeit, Illidan doesn't know of Kael's treachery yet. Kael will probably die as well. Illidan's forces are done, and seeing as how he is a raid boss now, i suppose that players do in fact finish him for good. This is all speculation based on my more than considerable knowledge of the story. ~Posted by: Nicolai_Stormrage~

Uh, er, on topic ... yeah, that's exactly what I was thinking of :) Edit, oh, oooh, I see what you're saying about the quote! Definately hinted, isn't it? -- Kirkburn (talk) 17:59, 28 December 2006 (EST)

Why Tyrande? I take that as a mistake, where it should be Maiev who puts Illidan in cage. Personally I think that Illidan would allow to get himself into a cage third time, no. He would rather fly away to prevent that happening.

And Maiev's plot sounds nice. I would also like to see her fighting alongside the player characters, it would be nice to have a possibility to fight with a legend like her. I mean, I love the "Escape from Durnholde Keep" thing, because you can fight alongside Thrall himself, like take place in creation of history. So fighting with Maiev (she lacks any other allies, so she might as well join a player raid party) against Illidan could be a nice thing to see. I still can't imagine Akama's role, except that he would release Maiev... --Sul'jin 19:50, 28 December 2006 (EST)

You know I would love to see some kind of scripted event. You battle Illiden down, he's about to die, and you hear word of Alliance and/or horde reinforcements on their way who a few lesser ones rush in. He uses some terrible non-blockable AOE attack, "instant kill". Everyone in the raid and the lesser Allied npcs die, and he runs off.

However while you are dead and now viewing things from your body, you are not allowed to respawn. A few moments later, famous heroes sucha as Thrall, Turyon and the Alleria Windrunner enter the room, and start to mass AOE Resurrect everyone. Letting everyone know they had done a good job, and then allowing you to loot something Illidan left behind. It could be very epic. But knowing blizzard they'll simplify everything

Mind you I would like to see an event like this, doesn't have to be for Illiden(I don't really care if we truly kill him or not), though he would be an epic choice....Baggins 15:38, 29 December 2006 (EST)

Oh, come on, that scripted squad (Thrall, Turalyon, Alleria, etc.) could be used to help defeat for example Kil'jaeden, but not Illidan... I think that a band of 25 lv 70 characters are comparable to 25 heroes like those mentioned before (in strength, not fame). Although I think it would be nice to see at least one scripted character helping players defeat, and IMHO best possibilities are Akama (vengeance for allowing/not disallowing Vashj to have draenei slaves, and to stop him becoming new "Magtheridon"-style ruler of Draenor/Outland) or Maiev (reasons known to all). --Sul'jin 19:04, 29 December 2006 (EST)

Someone on the forums a while ago wrote a very cool description of how the encounter would go. It basically ends with Kil'jaeden popping out complaining about his wayward prodigal, and taking him to the TN to punish him, but not dispose of him yet.. Since he still has a use for him.

My personal theory is that right before you are about to down him, he becomes immensely powerful beyond reckoning, linked with a previous server-wide event where Illidan is available for downing. He wipes the entire raid group. They MUST DIE no matter what. He escapes and flees Outland for another planet.. Where our next expansion will take us, but not without leaving his pretty purples behind.--Zexx 22:39, 29 December 2006 (EST)

In my opinion the Kil'Jaeden popping out of nowhere thing makes sense...because he created the Lich King, so why shouldn't he do the same sort of thing with Illidan, and try to use him agains Arthas? I think that he hasn't come out yet to punish our wayward Outlord because he always seems to wait until characters are alone and powerless before coming out to do his thing. Since I am already mad about having to fight him, the idea of Killie (I haven't much reverence for Sargeras' sneakiest Lieutenant, sorry) punishing him after everything he's been through is, to me, absurdly unfair, but, as Metzen is almost never nice to his heroes, it wouldn't be at all surprising. I like the theory of him flying away, myself :))--Daughter of Sargeras 23:58, 29 December 2006 (EST)

"...he idea of Killie (I haven't much reverence for Sargeras' sneakiest Lieutenant, sorry) punishing him after everything he's been through is, to me, absurdly unfair..." You and I are in total agreement here. And if we wind up making Illidan vulnerable to the point where Kil'jaeden can swoop in and grab him, I'll like it even less. Oh yeah, and I dislike the idea that a guy as bad as Kel'thuzad would suffer less than a guy with a better (if not exactly perfect) moral compass like Illidan. Anybody read Knaak's depiction of what Sargeras did to Xavius? That's what Illidan has in store for him. *shudder* --Illidan Rocks 15:46, 10 January 2007 (EST)

You people do realize that the whole point of my suggestion was the darkness incarnate reference, right? --Ragestorm, Head Bookkeeper 01:02, 30 December 2006 (EST)

I quote Arthas, "Who IS this DARKNESS anyway!?"--Zexx 04:25, 30 December 2006 (EST)

He's mean, he's green, and he's an orc-corrupting machine. Do I have to spell it out for you? he betreyed his masters left and right? most evil warlock ever seen among mortal races?--Ragestorm, Head Bookkeeper 09:43, 30 December 2006 (EST)

...That would be Gul'dan. Still don't get the whole "I am darkness incarnate" business though. -- Varghedin 16:00 30 Dec 2006 (CET)

I have no idea why he called himself that, as as for why I think Illidan should say it... think back; how did Illidan say he knew how to find the Tomb of Sargeras?--Ragestorm, Head Bookkeeper 12:42, 30 December 2006 (EST)

The greatest Azerothian villians are puppets controlled each by a soul of two elder orc warlocks. Nice idea, Ragestorm, if I got it right! Everything in Warcraft is around orcs one way or another. Elf-Eluna-Alina 5:59 1 march 2007

You never know what kind of side effects you could get drinking out Guld'dan's shiny noggen....Baggins 13:20, 30 December 2006 (EST)

So basically it might be that "Illidan" has been taken over by "Gul'Dan"....makes sense too, I guess. But if you're speaking of evil, wasn't Ner'Zhul more evil than Gul'Dan? Not having really paid attention to the WC2 story very much. Oh well, the point is, Illidan's insanity and his inability to admit defeat to Arthas would probably weaken him sufficiently for Gul'Dan's memories to be able to take over his brain. Perhaps when you defeat Illidan this time round, he loses his connection to Gul'Dan? Now that would be interesting. --Daughter of Sargeras 13:07, 30 December 2006 (EST)

When did he start calling himself that? Now that I think back though it does make sense he was able to find the Tomb after consuming the Skull of Gul'dan. Our wayward Stormrage should grow very powerful soon enough.--Zexx 13:21, 30 December 2006 (EST)

Therein lies my point. I personally (and loreplayers and rolepayers should agree) see little point in encountering Illidan without a little more information on the connection between him and whatever vestiges of Gul'dan remain in his mind. When Melfurion says that Illidan is becoming deluded, my mind jumped instantly to the Skull.

To address your question, Sargerasia, Rise of the Horde raises questions that suggest Ner'zhul wasn't as evil as we think... (response to this comment should be moved to a different page).--Ragestorm, Head Bookkeeper

Which page should we respond on, Ragestorm? Because I would really like to say something about this! :-) --Illidan Rocks 15:55, 10 January 2007 (EST)

My view is: User:Sandwichman2448/Black Temple raid encounter theories. Sorry.--Sandwichman2448 22:22, 6 April 2007 (EDT)

Whether to kill or not kill Illidan

I'm sorry, I've never seen the full transcript of the lore panel from BlizzCon, so we need to put up a link to the source where Metzen says we will not kill him. Else that statement is null and void, and due to the fact-tag I added, people will be able to take it with a grain of salt.

--Iluvatar 17:44, 31 December 2006 (EST)

BC spoilers: let's see 'em

I'm the Bookkeeper assigned to Illidan but have not played the beta. If people are reluctant about posting details about what happens to him in BC because they think it'll result in an edit-war (which I have, admittedly, sometimes allowed my overprotectiveness of the character to get me into), please don't hesitate. Post away! I want to know this stuff as much as anybody else.--Illidan Rocks 15:49, 10 January 2007 (EST)

He's not in the beta. :) User:Kirkburn/Sig 15:59, 10 January 2007 (EST)

Spoilers? Pff. You are not prepared. User:Montag/sig 16:11, 10 January 2007 (EST)

Thank you...so much for the nutcase that said you can kill Illy, and get his head and grom's axe from him >_> *relieved* --Maibe 17:07, 10 January 2007 (EST)

DEMON HUNTER????

He can turn into a "FULL" demon when he whiches (metamorphisis), but so can other demon hunters.. I dun get it. He should at least have choas damage to show he's a demon... Also no wear (except ROC and TFT) metions hes a demon hunter. BLizzard should release some book about Illidan and how he became a demon hunter. Whats with his panda blade. Techinally speaking Illidan is a stayr. --Ramming pure 05:06, 15 January 2007 (EST)

They did. Illidan acquired the powers of a Demon Hunter through Sargeras. Illidan's story is fine, it's just that there's no sign of the rest of the demon hunters. The Blades of Azzinoth (another one of those RPG facts) have a panda image because that's Samwise's trademark, and it's a nice little in-joke. A satyr is not a being who is half-night elf and half-demon, a satyr is a being who was once a night elf but turned into a "demidemon", for lack of a better term. --Ragestorm (talk · contr) 09:02, 15 January 2007 (EST)

I read the War of the Ancients series and its because of Sargeras. But demon hunter isn't a good title for him. Stayrs don't have to be night elves. I read somewhere about non night elf stayrs. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Ramming pure (talk · contr).

First off, you add new comments below the old ones. Second, he's a demon huner in WC3. Third, Illidan is not a satyr, and the satyr are not yet true demons. -_Ragestorm (talk · contr) 08:44, 7 February 2007 (EST)

I agree with this one. Illidan got the power to turn himself into a demon when he consumed the Skull of Gul'dan, he hadn't had that power before even though he was a Demon Huter before. So why do all Demon Hunters posses this abillity? And i think it should be permanent for him, for example he loses his DH abillities when he's a demon, but gets some others, or something like taht. Or he should have benefits in magic and other things cuz he is infact a half demon and thus much stronger in both magic and strenght than not only DH, but other Azeroth heros aswell (note that he consumed the Skull of GUL'DAN, one of the most powerful wielders of demonic magic even among the demons, besides Archimonde, Kil'jaeden, Mannoroth and some others. Maiev says that only a few powers are left in the world able to rise an island from the ocean floor - Gul'dan did that). But about the Satyr thing, he is not a Satyr, he a unique being in WarCraft universe. He is more demon than Satyrs, and Satyrs don't get much demonic powers when they become Satyrs, only some basic unholy stuff. And about the horns and other things, that is a common characteristic among all demnos and half demons, so having those charateristics doesn't necessarily mean a Satyr. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Daki91 (talk · contr).

General Info

Is there even a point in having this section. Other characters don't have it, or at least the ones I've seen. Anything in here can be directly included in the article itself. Also there should be syncronicity between articles, if one has it then all should have it or none should have it. To me it ruins the professional look of the article and makes it seem untidy. I'm not going to delete this because its a mjor portion but I would like someone to jutstify it being here. If not then I'll delete it. Noman953, 04:15 23 January 2007

Rather than just being removed entirely, it should be rewritten into a short intro prose covering the important points about Illidan. Certainly at the moment it covers far far too much, is inconsistent and invites the addition of pointless factoids. User:Kirkburn/Sig 04:37, 23 January 2007 (EST)

Agreed. For the record, Furion has one of those as well, but we should compress the info into paragraph format, in the same manner as other pages, such as Tyrande.--Ragestorm (talk · contr) 17:15, 23 January 2007 (EST)

Edits are done. Noman953, 06:56 23 January 2007

Illidan Will Die

"I am not trying to start any arguments but it has to be said. Few of the suggestions above are possible, but a lot of them are geeky fanboy drivel that would ultimately turn out for the worse. First and foremost; when a boss in WoW dies, he dies in lore, in storyline, in histroy, whatever. That character is gone, unless, as in Kel'Thuzad's case, he boasts that he will return. Ragnaros, Nefarion and C'Thun are dead, and Kel was either rambling or he'll be brought back by the Lich King more powerful than ever as he claimed he would be.

Illidan is stronger that Kel'Thuzad. He was fairly even with Arthas, but as soon as Arthas put that helmet on his head, Arthas' power sky-rocketed to the point where he would obliterate Illidan in seconds. Blizzard said played will have to be at least level 90 to have a chance at Arthas. So, Illidan is stronger than Kel'Thuzad, but unfathomably weaker than Arthas. Level 70 is a very understandable level for Illidan. Illidan will not escape, because there is no future past level 70 in WoW for him. He is not strong enough to be a challenge for us at level 80.

But, Blizzard did state that we would not kill him, we could get in his way. Obviously, this means another Domo. But, unlike Domo, he will not escape. I think it was mentioned above, and I love this theory, that Kil'Jaedan will appear and finally get the revenge he promised upon Illidan so many years ago. That will be an epic story scene that should be enough to satisfy anybody. And I hope to god it will be CGI, but that is a little doubtful.

As Warcraft games have gone on, each one has become more emmersive. The first one hardly had a storyline at all aside from what you read in the game manual. The second presented the story a little better but wasn't much greater than the first. The third broke ground and made Warcraft great for story, when it used to only be great for gameplay. Now, Blizzard has taken the next step by letting 'US' become a part of the story. There is no Warcraft 4 and there never will be. WoW is going to end it. Do not flame me, don't have a cry, that is it. Illidan will die. Azshara will die. The nightmare in the Emerald Dream will be solved. Arthas, Anub'Arak and a reborn Kel'Thuzad will die and on the last expansion pack when Azeroth and the other worlds who still battle the Burning Legion clash with the entirety of the demonic forces, Kil'Jaeden (or Sargeras if he comes back) will die." Maarz

PS. I will happily answer any disagreements or inevitable flames you send my way.

And a bunch of "heroes" are going to stop great Sargeras himself in his quest. Yeah, right. First, please, tell us how do you know what Blizzard prepared for Illidan? We're dying to know that! And if you don't know that, don't be so sure when stating such things. The thinmg with Kil'jaeden coming and taking his "payment" from Illidan has one major issue - if Kil'jaeden does it, he will probably offer players to join him in his conquest or to die here and now. Players will probably refuse, and you know what then would happen? Massive wipe. Nothing more, nothing less. Kil'jaeden is more powerful than the Lich King, and the Lich King, as you said, is much more powerful than Illidan, so K'J wouldn't have problems in killing a gropu of 25 level 70 people. And then what? Well, there's nothing to stop him getting through the portal to Azeroth, to spread death and destruction, as the Leaders of the Burning Legion tried twice already.

Even if all villains that are killable in-game are dead in the lore, Blizzard won't allow to kill all evil guys, because this would mean the end of Warcraft - and there's still to be someone left to be killed in WoW2 or Warcraft 4, and thus, more money for Blizzard for their hard work. And Sargeras is "the ultimate evil" of Warcraft, and evil never dies, so that story may continue. User:Sul'jin/Sig07:11, 23 January 2007 (EST)

There is a reason the "current status" of all notable mobs is left at "killable", we don't know for sure we really killed C'thun, Hakkar, etc. Sure we "killed" them gameplay wise but it isn't a credible reason to believe they have been killed lore wise. What you said makes it seem like if the Horde stormed into Darnassus and killed Tyrande she is officaly dead, which is of course, inaccurate. Hordesupporter 14:54, 23 January 2007 (EST)

Sul'jin, you couldn't be more right about what Kil'Jaeden would do when he found a bunch of helpless alliance or horde just standing there. I'd written enough already to go into any of that, but in truth, I have no idea how that'd happen. It makes sense the Kil'Jaeden would do something like that but the band of 25 people makes that more difficult to happen. The way Illidan dies, however, is not what I was focusing on. What would you have him do? Run away? I think that would be more demoralizing than killing him, having Illidan flee with a tail bewteen his legs. Or would you have him stun the entire raid and yell out; "Hmmph, you are worth my time... I mean, you came into my castle and obliterated the stronger of my forces, but I'm not going to kill you, instead I'm going to stun you while I give this hauntingly tradional speech and that give you some epics afterwards."

That speech was filled with sarcrasm, so to those not practised in it I'll explain further. You've just invaded Illidan's home. You've killed all his lieutenants/generals/bodyguars/whatever he considers them. And he's gonna love you for that (sorry, more sarcasm). So its kill or be killed...

Hordesupporter, your question is much easier to answer. Racial leaders are a different story, and we all know that, your just trying to find any scrap of information that you can use against be, albeit it valid information. My answer may be a little disappointing. Quests. If we won't agree that raid monsters do die, then we have to agree that what players accomplish in the outside world DOES really happen. Players ACTUALLY do help the Argent Dawn with their cause in the plaguelands. Night Elves ACTUALLY do help cull the numbers of tigers in teldrassil. Sure, the tigers are always there and Argent Dawn always needs help, but that's to compensate for all the other players out there. If we don't, at the very least, believe that quests in WoW's outside world make a difference, than WoW in itself is a giant lie. Our players are in a totally abstract universe from the official WoW lore. We don't even exist. When thrall dies there is no lasting impace on the world. He respawns quickly, as does all his guards. Similar to other leaders. When you kill C'thun, you hand in your quest to the brood of nozdormu, and they give you a reward. Then they praise you for having the ability to kill a god. When you kill nefarion or onyxia you hang their heads from Stormwind or Orgrimmar! You can do this a thousand times, but that doesn't mean it hasn't been done. Repetance is required for online games, as is realism and knowledge that your actually doing something, rather than running around making not a tiny difference in the entire world.

Much longer than I intended. -Maarz.

To expand on Hordesupporter's point, lore characters killed for quests in WoW are listed as "killable" until the quest is removed and their death is confirmed as final on all realms. Maarz, sign your posts properly, please, and you're right- it's entirely possible that your prediction will be correct. It's also possible that other predictions are correct. And Players WILL fight Illidan, just not kill him. If Kil'jaeden does kill him afterwards, we still put down "killable". As far as I can see, that's the end of the argument. --Ragestorm (talk · contr) 17:12, 23 January 2007 (EST)

Illidan is warcraft's second most popular character. Frozen throne; they did a lot of work on his appearance, he was in Frozen throne cinematic, he was also in the burning crusade cinematic. to lose Illidan is to lose many warcraft fans. I think blizzard experimented with his death, but were too smart to let arthus kill him. just like Kel'thuzad he will be defeated but a possibility of his return will be ensured--Noman953

Blizzard or some unoffical source said you don't KILL Illidan in TBC, you actually destroy or demolish some of his plans... I think Blizzard is somewhat eager to kill him but the fans don't allow such thing. In my oponion, killing Illidan is the worst thing blizzard can do. In a matter of fact, if he dies, there are only the aspects to defeat Arthas, and we didn't see them since Day of the Dragon\The Last Guardian (don't know about the second, didn't read it...) but it'll be a huge mistake... i think Illidan and Arthas will have another encounter, with a mass WoW event or a 40 to 80 men instance... --Creator 08:08, 25 January 2007 (EST)

Arthas shits all over Illidan right now, really. Before he merged with Ner'zhul they were pretty much an even match, but now Arthas really just pwns the hell outta him. Also, blizzard have stated that with raids, they don't think that "bigger" usually means "better" they're never going to make a bigger instance than 40 man and that's if they even go back from 25 man.--Maarz

Blizzard can't kill Illidan due to just how damn popular Illidan is, most likly once his health is depleted Illidan kneels down, holding his chest in pain, Illidan says he does not currently have the power to defeat the players, he spreads his wings and flys off vowing to take his revenge on the players at a later date, although wheather Illidan would be allowed a chance to take his revenge I do not know, Blizzard may just put him as a stronger raid boss further down the line or something. Hordesupporter 20:20, 26 January 2007 (EST)

Illidan ISN'T Chuck Norris. Illidan is a Warcraft character and Blizzard can kill him any time. Stop being childish and just wait for proofs.--K ) (talk) 21:07, 26 January 2007 (EST)

Blizzard can kill Illidan, because they are able to do so. Hordesupporter probably meant they shouldn't kill him, because he's far too popular.User:Sul'jin/Sig 07:55, 27 January 2007 (EST)

It's highly unlikly that Blizzard will let Illidan die, but, we MUST accept the possibilty that Blizzard will in fact kill him, until then I would suggest we not argue about this. Hordesupporter 20:58, 28 January 2007 (EST)

I probably shouldn't have used racial leaders in my example but, simple because a player completed a quest, dosen't mean the events of the quest happened lore-wise, for example, both the Horde and the Alliance have a quest to go into the scarlet monestary and kill the leaders of the place, how do both the members of the horde and the members of the alliance complete this and get congratulated for this and all? A freind of mine thinks that the horde and alliance groups banded together and defeated the crusaders there but that is impossible, because there is considerable hatred between the two factions and I doubt they would join forces to defeat something like the crusade, which is supposed to technically be an ally to the alliance, if this example doesn't prove that not all quests get completed there is a quest at the seplcher where an undead intructs you to murder his still living brother at chillwind camp for the horde, while the living brother intructs alliance players to murder the undead, if all quests do in fact happen, then the members of the horde slaughter the human and come back to find the guy who hired them was killed while they were gone, and the alliance discovered they can't be paid for risking their lives in forsaken territory because the horde killed their benafactor while they were gone, although in-game the player returns to the guest-giver and gets congratulated for killing the target and gets a bit of money for their trouble. Hordesupporter 20:33, 9 February 2007 (EST)

simple. this entire game is instanced. completely. every player, every single one, has his own instance of the story line so far. every quest in this game does happen story line wise. Kel'thuzad is dead because there's a quest that says You killed him. but he also may return because thats what the quest says. its simple actually. racial leaders don't have a quest to kill them so they are alive story and lore wise. each player does the story as if he were the hero of the world himself. As for Illidan, it's impossible to tell what will happen. but seeing as how Blizzard has in fact killed off majorly popular characters in the past. Anduin Lothar being a good example. It seems likely that Blizzard will in fact kill Illidan off. Although definately not written in stone. Seeing as how Illidan has a set death animation in the model viewer, and he has a Death quote on his tactics page, I'm going to assume, that yes, he does in fact die. Maiev probably kills him herself. Nicolai_Stormrage

We don't know if the events of WoW even occur, its possible that when Warcraft IV comes it'll say that WoW isn't canon. Hordesupporter 20:33, 21 April 2007 (EDT)

Oh no, the events in WoW do happen. Ragnaros is dead, Nefarian is dead, C'thun is dead, Magtheridon is dead, Vashj is dead, Gruul is dead, Kel'thuzad is dead but has a chance of coming back. It is all true storyline. Kargath Bladefist is dead. all them people are dead. everything in a quest in WoW does really happen in the story.~Nicolai_Stormrage

Illidan's transformation

Is there any lore on how Illidan got to be uglified? I saw an edit that mentioned that the glowing runes covering his body were a gift from Sargeras, although I'm not sure how that could have happened unless it occurred before the Well of Eternity exploded. It's assumed that Illidan was transformed by the Orb of Kil'Jaeden since he appears normally in the WC3 flashback to his conversation with Kil'Jaeden. Therefore, it's obviously a specific choice to make him non-demonic before Kil'Jaeden speaks to him, and more demonic afterwards. I would argue then that his entire image at this point was crafted or influenced by KilJaeden. However, I don't have any hard evidence to back that up. Anyone have any ideas? User:Montag/sig 18:49, 25 January 2007 (EST)

I've been back-and-forth with this with Noman for days. The tatoos are a result of Illidan's encounter with Sargeras during the War of the Ancients (as detailed in The Sundering). As for who transformed him, the Warcraft Encyclopedia mentions a demonic transformation in relation to the Skull, but just says that Kil'jaeden contacted him. Add that to the Metamorphosis spell during the Eternity's End mission, and I find it more likely that his transformation was a result of the Skull. Also, I'm not convinced the Orb of Kil'jaeden is a valid lore suggestion; it was a way to balance Illidan with Kael and Vashj, both of whom would have had some sort of Orb at that point in the game. --Ragestorm (talk · contr) 20:11, 25 January 2007 (EST)

Just as a correction Ragestorm, they aren't exactly tattoos. They are in the sense that they are a design, but they are actually scars. The cuts stem out from his eyes and down to the rest of his body.--Zexx 09:25, 26 January 2007 (EST)

<shrug> I understood them at tatoos. Either way, "sigil" is not the term to use, as they aren't actually sigils or runes. What's your opinion on when he transformed?--Ragestorm (talk · contr) 15:13, 26 January 2007 (EST)

If we take TFT into considering, Illidan transformed after encounter with Kil'jaeden. In one mission, when he is already transformed, is a cutscene that shows his encounter with K'j (Illidan's memories) he's not yet demonic in appearance. Illidan was promised a great power for serving the demon lord, so probably his transformation is due to this "power", obviously demonic in nature. User:Sul'jin/Sig17:56, 26 January 2007 (EST)

I'm well aware of that, having played that campaign several times. Please examine [2] under the headings "Lost Soul: the Third War", and "Alliance with the Naga". I'm not saying it's clear one way or the other, I'm saying it's vague enough to warrant a mention of the unclarity.--Ragestorm (talk · contr) 19:06, 26 January 2007 (EST)

Ok. You asked the question (and the word "you" is here ambiguous enough to take is as "all of you here"), I saw it and answered it. Nothing more, nothing less. ;) User:Sul'jin/Sig08:04, 27 January 2007 (EST)

If there's no defense other than the TFT interlude, I'm moving the demonic transformation up to the Skull, with a note pointing out the TFT argument for the transformation after talking with Kil'jaeden. --Ragestorm (talk · contr) 17:44, 29 January 2007 (EST)

Seems to be the most logical. I may check the dialog in that scene for anything conspicuous, but I'd go with the Skull as being the agent of demonification. User:Montag/sig 11:31, 30 January 2007 (EST)

Illidan's Getting Kinda Lonely

Hunted by own people and every other imaginable race, stuck on Kil'Jaedan's hitlist, Akama and Kael'thas betraying him and Lady Vashj generally agreed to be more loyal to Azshara than him... Illidan's getting kinda lonely. --Adonzo 02:05, 13 February 2007 (EST)

The only thing I have to say to him is, crymorenoob. User:Montag/sig 08:55, 13 February 2007 (EST)

Yup. He's cool, but he's insulted us, 'Yer not prepared' gna gna gna ... We'll just kick his adds and ass. And, by the way, I'm not totally sure that Kael'thas has betrayed him.--K ) (talk) 13:11, 13 February 2007 (EST)

To be fair, most of us are, in fact, not prepared. Your query should be addressed on Talk:Kael'thas Sunstrider. --Ragestorm (talk · contr) 13:16, 13 February 2007 (EST)

Well what do you expect. The guy is called the Betrayer for a reason. I'm really trying hard to think of a group that he's worked for that he hasn't betrayed. Now he has his own group. It is only fitting that he get some betrayal thrown right back at him. Don't get me wrong, I love the character, but part of that character is that he's made his world one where trust cannot exist, and he must pay the consequences. Meneldir

Lunar Falls?

This is only a question. Is it just me or does the website Lunarfalls really have no information at all retaining to Warcraft other than like a couple of names in the A-D section?... I guess I may just be confused as if they ever had information on there on the first place, or is this just placed there for attention because this person may have edited Illidans section? I'm only curious. - Erissia

When WoWWiki was started, and for a fair amount of time afterwards (before my time, even), most of the lore biographies were essentially quoted from Lunar Falls. Though most of the articles in question now bear no resemblence to the Lunar Falls information, we cover our tracks. --Ragestorm (talk · contr) 13:33, 18 February 2007 (EST)

oh! thats pretty cool, I wish it was still around then =(! - Erissia

They still have the manual lore from the earlier WCs transcribed... =O--Sky 00:25, 20 February 2007 (EST)

Misc. notes

I'd like to remove the notes about "costing him his soul" and the one about Lady Vashj. Any objections?--Ragestorm (talk · contr) 17:54, 22 March 2007 (EDT)

tbh, I'd say leave the Vashj and merge the "costing him his soul" note skillfully into the main text. My 2.--User:Sky2042/Sig 18:00, 22 March 2007 (EDT)

Perhaps. The reason I bring it up is that they're both comparatively minor issues; also, I don't know anyone who takes the "costing your soul" completely literally. --Ragestorm (talk · contr) 23:23, 22 March 2007 (EDT)

Included Illidan's picture

But the quality is pretty shitty...If anyone else got a better one plz upload it again

Also how do you make the picture bigger? didigo10

First, sign your posts. Second. How can there be a non-datamined picture of Illidan? The temple is not ingame yet...--Maibe 07:56, 26 March 2007 (EDT)

I know this is the wrong place and time to mention this, but how is Arthas stronger than Illidan in wc3? they were evenly matched BEFORE Illidan got his wings and Arthas is serverely weaked at the battle at Northtrend.

We are prepared

Anyway, I think that with tier 5 armour sets and the like, we will be prepared for the battle against Illidan. still don't think he will die until wc4 since we are able to kill Thrall, slyvannas and many main characters in WoW!?!? --Jammidodger 16:11, 7 April 2007 (EDT)

What a lot of people are missing, is that there's often a quest to kill the endboss of a raid, whereas there aren't any to kill the faction leaders or other characters. Quests should be assumed to be part of lore, when possible. --Bobson 13:06, 8 April 2007 (EDT)

Quests doesn't prove that it has happened lore-wise. For instance, both Alliance and Horde gets a quest involving killing the leaders of the Scarlet Monastery. What will it say in the lore? A person can't be killed twice, you know. --Odolwa 15:00, 8 April 2007 (EDT)

Model: Spoilers

http://worldofraids.free.fr/news-patch/mobs/screenshot_170.jpg - Looks like a poor Dreadlord. ~FieryAxel

I'm doubtful... i'm VERY doubtful. Hordesupporter 01:05, 14 April 2007 (EDT)

Do not add screenshots to the article until Illidan is seen in-game. User:Kirkburn/Sig3 17:23, 14 April 2007 (EDT)

Yes, Kirk. I know. FieryAxel| 20:15, 14th April 2007 (EDT)

I'm afraid people keep trying to add in-game pictures to the article... *sigh*. Hordesupporter 16:02, 15 April 2007 (EDT)

Dying Speech

The sound of him dying is released in the test realm patch. http://www.invictuswow.com/pics/BLACK_Illidan_16.wav

I wrote what he said down: [nowiki] Maiev... how is it even possible? You have won.... Maiev But the huntress.... is nothing without the hunt YOU are NOTHING witout me *coughs* [/nowiki] Should this be added to the main page yet ?

No, at least not until 2.1 is released. User:Kirkburn/Sig3 17:23, 14 April 2007 (EDT)

Sign your posts. And I agree with Kirkburn, it's too early for this. It still remains to be seen what the case will be. --Odolwa 18:50, 14 April 2007 (EDT)

OMG here are sum quotez here--SWM2448 20:51, 14 April 2007 (EDT)

I'm not sure this quote means he dies, but i'd like to wait until 2.1 before we say anything for certain. Hordesupporter 23:11, 16 April 2007 (EDT)

Well, IF it does mean it and Maiev actually kills him...Maiev managed what a dozen of characters didn't manage before: Kick Staghelm off the 1st place as the most hated/loathed/despised character ingame...--Maibe 06:40, 17 April 2007 (EDT)

I'm surprised at the decision to kill him, if it is indeed true. Based on Kaplan's comments at Blizzcon, and the Burning Crusade FAQ page, Illidan being "killable" was out of the question. Perhaps the designers put these sound files to "stick it" to data miners by having them create false speculation. -- Tyrsenus t c 16:16, 17 April 2007 (EDT)

Perhaps a later event, novel, or Warcraft IV will have him revived? --Ragestorm (talk · contr) 17:12, 17 April 2007 (EDT)

I hope so, but i think blizzard wont revive him. In my view, its pity that they killed him, He was one of the coolest characters in warcraft history and blizz did a bad step when they did this. I thought he will just run away and later in another expansions he would play also some important role. Well.. Pity but its just a character and we have to live with it :P Dig a grave for him in your garden and sharp your blades on another boss :) Goodbye Illidan. Axel

You know Illidan is probably too powerful to be killed. We're ignoring the fact that the "fightable" Illidan may be a puppet or projection to put people who want to kill him like Kil'jaeden, Arthas(Maybe), The Shat'ar, Kael'thas etc. off track. Anuragsahay 07:47, 18 April 2007 (EDT)

Real original. Next, you'll be telling that the Illidan we're fighting is actually his clone/twin brother. Mr. peasant 20:05, 18 April 2007 (EDT)

He already has a twin, remember? --Ragestorm (talk · contr) 20:09, 18 April 2007 (EDT)

I'm totally fond of this idea: why wouldn't we be allowed to kill Malfurion? (/taunt Ragestorm)--K ) (talk) 20:10, 18 April 2007 (EDT)

<shrug> No reason, but A) they look nothing alike, so it would be impossible to kill Malfurion masquerading as Illidan and B) Malfurion has no real motivation to impersonate Illidan- apart from anything else, Illidan woudl die anyway, because Tyrande would go after Illidan for not stopping Malfurion. This, of course, would allow Staghelm to take over the night elf government, and Maiev and Tyrande would again battle for the position of High Priestess. Kaldorei society would thus be torn apart, thereby forcing the draenei to fill the void of Alliance power in Kalimdor, which will incur the ire of the Horde (leading to all sorts of Thrall/Jaina interactions), probably encouragint Sylvanas to launch a renewed assault on the Eastern Kingdoms, thus leaving Azeroth at the mercies of Arthas, Azshara, or Kil'jaeden.--Ragestorm (talk · contr) 23:23, 19 April 2007 (EDT)

....Just a brief question, more out of curiosity than anything, if Maiev does in fact kill Illidan (the sound of him dying broke my heart..now i'll be depressed for weeks), will she in fact go after Tyrande at some point? seems logical, after all, she wanted her locked away for freeing the Outlord in the first place. If so though, i wonder if Illidan will some how make good on his promise: "No matter what I may be, no matter what I may become in this world, know that I will always look out for you, Tyrande..."--Daughter of Sargeras 07:50, 20 April 2007 (EDT)

If she decides that she needs another target in her "Hand of Justice" crusade, then yes, she will go after Tyrande. This will raise a number of interesting issues. Sorry, but there's no way Illidan will help Tyrande from beyond the grave; in the unlikely event that she can't take care of herself, remember that Tyrande is the Chosen of Elune. --Ragestorm (talk · contr) 09:16, 20 April 2007 (EDT)

I know this is shameless self-promotion, but: I once made this...so...think there could be a bit thruth in that theory..and illidan will be able to renew?--Maibe 10:22, 20 April 2007 (EDT)

First of all... chibi? how dare you! Second, we don't actually know how many people can do taht apart from Sargeras. Admittedly, if you had a Soulstone... but that usualy makes the Horadrim come after you, and then an intrepid hero follows you into the depths of the Burning Hells... opps, wrong universe! --Ragestorm (talk · contr) 17:49, 20 April 2007 (EDT)

Well, if I may interject with my own piece. Introductions another time. Regardless of killing him... how power has Illidan truely become anyways? Balnazzar came back from the dead, as did Medivh. Medivh was brutally slain by Khadgar & co., and yet here he is almost 2 decades later trying to save the world he nearly destroyed. I think Illidan might be powerful enough to.. well... "Pull a Medivh." This isn't the last we've seen of Illidan Stormrage. Warcraft's Favourite Anti-Hero/Mistunderstood Villain will be back, I think. This time to set things straight. Of course, part of my belief is that we won't hear from him until we can enter the Emerald Dream. That would be my first order of business as a "Redeemed" Illidan. Seek our Furion. Of course this is all pipedreams and speculation, from my end, with only a few cues from Furion's conversation with Remulos back during the AQ opening.--ArthosRa 0:33, 21 April 2007 (EDT)

Well, Balnazaar did it as well...didn't he?--Maibe 20:49, 20 April 2007 (EDT)

The only way Illidan can "pull a Medivh" is if Mrs. Stormrage has somehow survived for ten millenia without telling either of her sons (Aegwynn was the one who revived him). I wouldn't call Illidan a misunderstood villain- everyone understands why he's a villain. As for coming back... This is Warcraft, so not surprising in the slightest. FYI, none of this goes in the article. --Ragestorm (talk · contr) 09:43, 21 April 2007 (EDT)

I think it would be interesting if Illidan transported his spirit to the Emerald Dream to help Malfurion and Cenarius, after he gets killed by Maiev. Cenarius exists in the Emerald Dream after his death, so Illidan just might be able to do the same. although it seems somewhat unlikely seeing as how Illidan doesn't exactly care for the druidic ways too much, so he might not know how to send his spirit there. but still that'd be nice. and would explain why Outland came before the Emerald Dream expansion.~Nicolai_Stormrage

I'm thinking Illidan will end up in the Emerald Dream too, but not of his own power. Illidan has never held much respect for the druidic arts, nor does he have the ability to walk the Emerald Dream, let alone transport his spirit there when he dies. Malfurion, on the other hand... - Dark T Zeratul 16:27, 22 April 2007 (EDT)

I am amazed nobody has mentioned that this might not be him dying. He sounds like he is dying, true, but he could still escape. It is just his "dying" speech, not necessarily the speech he gives as he actually perishes. It could be, for all meanings, only an in-game defeat. --Haddon 18:43, 21 April 2007 (EDT)

I thought the Emerald Dream thing too (see above). Also, I think the reason for Ouland comeing before the Dream is Outland needs to come befor Northrend because Illidan is weaker than Arthas (even befor his LichKingification), and Northrend needs to come before the dream for 2 reasons: One, the Emerald Dream encompasses all pre-sundering Azeroth, therefore northrend needs to be desined (though, any geographic retcons can be explained via time). And two, the 5th Great tree (Emerald Dream portal) is in Northrend. --SWM2448 18:52, 21 April 2007 (EDT)

Considering Illidan's popularity, it's possible this "dying" speech does not neccessairly mean we actually kill him, but mearly defeat him. It's a possibility that he does in fact die, but for now I won't say anything more. Hordesupporter 20:26, 21 April 2007 (EDT)

Um, you're saying a million times the same thing. His popularity won't do anything, the last time the customers' opinion was taken into account was when the Pandaren got featured in WC:TFT.--K ) (talk) 20:33, 21 April 2007 (EDT)

Critisize me all you want, but ask yourself one thing, do you honestly thing your insults mean anything to me? Hordesupporter 20:37, 21 April 2007 (EDT)

Oh, what the hell now? I haven't insulted you! Are you too paranoid just to open your eyes? I was just saying that the same facts are brought up a million times and the talk page gets more and more overwhelmed by "no, he won't be killed" or "what if there remained one sole possibility for him to survive" etc. I'm not only talking about you and I didn't insult anyone.--K ) (talk) 20:45, 21 April 2007 (EDT)

How was my statement paranoid? I'm just saying that considering the amount of Illidan fanboys/fangirls the choice to kill him would be met with extreme critisizem, also note that your statement more or less said "Your moron for trying to discuss this". Hordesupporter 20:49, 21 April 2007 (EDT)

Where the heck is that "amount" you're talking about? His popularity is not so large as you say. Criticism only comes from isolated fanboys who think their will has to be taken into account. And no, I never called you a moron for trying to discuss this : you're not even discussing this, you (all) are repeating the same stuff and not bringing relevant elements.--K ) (talk) 20:58, 21 April 2007 (EDT)

I don't care about Illidan, although the reaction to this "dying" clip caused something of an uproar on the WoW forums, so I assumed that Illidan was just an extremly popular character. Hordesupporter 23:25, 21 April 2007 (EDT)

Like i mentioned somewhere earlier, a character's popularity won't stop Blizzard from killing them off. Anduin Lothar is a good example here. Lothar was just as, if not more, popular in his time, than Illidan is now. Lothar was also an actual hero, a good guy. Blizzard killed him off. Illidan is a bad guy and a raid boss now. it seems probable to me that Blizzard won't give a crap about his popularity. They can end the character's life whenever they want. And this is probably their best chance to do just that. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Nicolai Stormrage (talk · contr).

Sign your posts, please. We still don't even know if anything we kill in WoW will stays dead in the lore. As I have said before, the fact that both Horde and Alliance gets the same type of quests, involving killing the same type of bosses (bosses can't be killed by both factions), it makes me think that everything we do in WoW just is a big ingame-thing, that won't affect the lore when we look back at it in the future :) --Odolwa 17:50, 22 April 2007 (EDT)

A few things here. First, anduin lothar was nowhere near as popular as illidan. there websites and entire games based off of him, he has a huge play in war 3, tft, the trilogy, and now BC, they even built a massive illidan statue for blizcon. Second, anduin lothar wasn't killed off by a bunch of little weakling wannabe-hero PC characters. he was killed off by Orgrim Doomhammer, THE orc of orcs at the time, and only after massive battles at the foot of the volcano. there is a massive difference between one of the most influential characters dying at the hands of another hero, and dying at the hands of a bunch of no-name nothings. even dying at the hands of maiev that easily is a bit of a stretch, i think, considering he never got his final face off with tyrande, furion kil'jaedan. i think it is pretty preposterous to assume from this clip he is just dead. and lastly, yes blizzard can kill off whoever, whenever, but chris metzen has poured his life into the story, i very seriously doubt he would be willing to just throw away extremely important characters. even kel'thuzad isnt dead. --Haddon 19:41, 22 April 2007 (EDT)

If someone doesn't sign their posts, sign it for them please, and perhaps give them a reminder on their talk page. See also WW:SIG. User:Kirkburn/Sig3 20:23, 22 April 2007 (EDT)

Quote: Nicolai Stormrage:"I think it would be interesting if Illidan transported his spirit to the Emerald Dream to help Malfurion and Cenarius, after he gets killed by Maiev." You know, It could be possible...Illidan is listed in the World of Warcraft Community Site Encyclopedia as having extraordinary potential as a druid, as his eyes indicated (though he was too impatient to realize this). I wonder why they would put that in now, unless there were some chance of Illi being reborn somehow in the Emerald Dream...anyway, I suppose i'm getting way ahead of myself, and WOW, here. :)) But I dont think that's the last we've seen of him :)--Daughter of Sargeras 15:07, 25 April 2007 (EDT)

Potential is potential; this isn't arcane magic, where an inherent talent triggers a teleportation spell. To return to the Emerald Dream, he'd have to not only cross into another dimension, but cross back to Azeroth. Still possible in the realms of theory, but he's unlikely to suddenly decide to persue druidic training and help Furion and Cenarius. Even if he joined them, he wouldn't do so as a druid. --Ragestorm (talk · contr) 17:13, 25 April 2007 (EDT)

I see what you mean. But still, considering the different times they were around, Illidan has more chance to become more popular, but anyways. Yea Metzen put a lot of Effort into Illidan, but still that doesn't mean he won't kill him. Illidan's forces are done for pretty much. Vashj is dead, Kael and Akama both are traitors, (Kael probably gonna die himself). And the Heroes of the game are gonna kill everythin else for the most part. It just my opinion though that it seems highly likely that Illidan is finally going to die. Although it may or may not be the last we hear of him. Nicolai Stormrage 17:52, 25 April 2007 (EDT)

What makes you think that killing bosses in-game are changing anything? In the past we have cleared both Scholomance, Stratholme and Naxxramas itself. Still the Scourge is going strong in the Plaguelands. Our actions in-game have absolutely no meaning. -Odolwa 07:22, 26 April 2007 (EDT)