Talk:Med'an

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Contents 1 Pedigree 2 Half-orcs and half-draenei 3 Blizzcast: Medivh? 4 Half-creatures 5 NOT Garona's Son? 6 Father 7 Another Theory on his Father 8 Father

Pedigree

Are we quite certain on the pedigree? I didn't see any family trees in the preview.Meneldir (talk) 05:18, 22 January 2009 (UTC)

Section has been removed. gOurra[T҂C] 05:45, 22 January 2009 (UTC)

Half-orcs and half-draenei

Half-orc is also speculation since we do not know what is the father's race. Rolandius (talk - contr) 06:02, 22 January 2009 (UTC)

All we know for sure is he's at least one quarter orc. He might three quarters, or half if Garona met another half orc.Warthok Talk Contribs 06:16, 22 January 2009 (UTC)

That is what I am saying. He might not be a half-orc since they are 50% orc. If his father is another half-orc then he would be half-orc also since that would make him still 50% orc. Depending on what race his dad is then he could be a combination of races. I think being only 25% orc might take you out of the half-orc category though. Rolandius (talk - contr) 06:35, 22 January 2009 (UTC)

Agreed. I think it's best for the time being to list him as: 1/4 orc.Warthok Talk Contribs 07:40, 22 January 2009 (UTC)

Or we could just put Race = Unknown. Rolandius (talk - contr) 08:19, 22 January 2009 (UTC)

Just read the comic. Garona's a half-orc/half-draenei. No meantion of his father.Warthok Talk Contribs 09:12, 22 January 2009 (UTC)

I see. This page of characters indeed states she's half-draenei. I stand corrected.AMBER^(RΘCK) 02:12, 23 January 2009 (UTC)

Since we don't know who his father is, I'd leave as it is until we discover it. Her mother is a half-orc, so his son, until the comic tell us who his father is, should be a half-orc too. --Lon-ami (talk) 09:44, 22 January 2009 (UTC)

No, the comic states she's half-orc. Nothing is said about her other half.AMBER^(RΘCK) 00:34, 23 January 2009 (UTC)

Are you positive about that? While I don't have the issue yet (the stores in this area are incredibly slow in stocking them as of late), I saw a scan of a sort of roster page from the issue where it states pretty clearly that Garona is half-draenei. --Maenos (talk) 00:45, 23 January 2009 (UTC)

The only way he's even debatably a "half-orc" is if Lantresor of the Blade is his father.  If his dad's an orc (unlikely) it's more than half; if his dad is something else, it's less than 50%.  He's the Warcraft Universe equivalent of what they call a "poi dog."
Farseer Lolotea ● contrib 21:25, 23 January 2009 (UTC)

"Half-elves are the hybrid offspring of both human and high elf, human and half-elf, or of two half-elf parents". A half-elf of human and half-elven descent would technically only be a quarter-elf, but they're still known as half-elves. So we can assume that the same things apply to half-orcs. Even if Med'an isn't exactly half and half then he should still be known as a half-orc. Unless there is some other label that applies to him, such as half-draenei. Jormungand  talk · contribs 21:31, 23 January 2009 (UTC)

I totally agree with Jormungand01 --N'Nanz (talk) 21:47, 23 January 2009 (UTC)

According to the respective hybrid pages, half-orcs are human/orc crossbreeds and half-draenei are orc/draenei crossbreeds. I'm changing his race to half-draenei accordingly (this also matches his mother's race). -- Dark T Zeratul (talk) 02:41, 24 January 2009 (UTC)

is it just or a new series of questions shall arise to who Med'an species realyy is i mean we just found out about garona pedigree belonged too, now we have her child to found out , like mother like son :D--Manuel (talk) 12:55, 24 January 2009 (UTC)

That half-race thing is weird. For example, Garona should be half-orc + half-human. Telling things like half-draenei is half-draenei and half-orc is weird. Then, when we have a half-draenei+half-human, how do we call him? --Lon-ami (talk) 19:50, 24 January 2009 (UTC)

Right now it's difficult to say, because we don't know who the father is. I would suggest leaving it as half-draenei for now, since he's definitely got characteristics of both orcs and draenei, and changing it at a later date if more information is revealed. Jormungand  talk · contribs 21:22, 24 January 2009 (UTC)

Hmmm, what to call a draenei/human...a Freaky Hybrid, perhaps?  On a more serious note, my guess is that orcs would call a draenei/orc hybrid a half-draenei; draenei would call such a hybrid a half-orc; and other races would probably apply some term that translates to "teal."

I reiterate that unless Med'an's daddy turns out to be Lantresor, his draenic ancestry would still add up to either more or less than half.  And if it turns out that his father is Prophet Velen (there's actual speculation along that line)...I'm going to /headdesk repeatedly.
Farseer Lolotea ● contrib 11:47, 25 January 2009 (UTC)

I'm just curious as to who his father is. If the recent issue seemed to hint, Med'an's father is human. Also Med'an's existence seem to change the events of The Last Guardian. (Omega2010 (talk) 22:36, 27 January 2009 (UTC))

I didn't see any hints in the comic that his father was human.  I didn't see any hints as to who or what his father was at all.
Farseer Lolotea ● contrib 02:32, 28 January 2009 (UTC)

That is the truth. I'll reiterate this: we'll have to wait for future comics in order to gain clues.AMBER^(RΘCK) 03:01, 28 January 2009 (UTC)

I hate to sound a little ignorant/arrogant here, but why are we speculating/wondering who the father is? Med'an is half-draenei, his mother is half-draenei, why would the father be anything else? And before you start pulling the half-elf stuff on me, that's for half-ELVES. Just because humans and half-elves can get it on to make another half-elf doesn't mean it's the same with humans/half-draenei. For all we know, it could come out as a troll.

Once again, sorry if I sounded a little ignorant/arrogant, but I just don't see the point of the arguement. Toran Wildpaw of the Frenzyheart (talk) 03:39, 28 January 2009 (UTC)

There is NO POINT in trying to speculate who the father is - he will probably appear in a later issue. I'm closing this discussion now. gOurra[T҂C] 12:30, 28 January 2009 (UTC)

I'm sorry Gourra, but there's just ONE little thing I wanna say before the discussion's closed.

Stop assuming that just because Lantresor is half-draenei, HE has to be the father in order for Med'an to be half-draenei. Lantresor is the only KNOWN half-draenei besides Garona and Med'an, not the only one. It's very possible that there are other half-draenei lurking out there that simply haven't been discovered yet. And it could be anyone. Hell, it could've even been some unknown brother for all the information we have.

Alright, as Gourra said, discussion over, nothing to see here, MOVE ALONG YOU! -points at a pair of gnomes- Toran Wildpaw of the Frenzyheart (talk) 20:21, 28 January 2009 (UTC)

No, Toran...you can't end on a parting shot.

You have completely missed the point:  I wasn't "assuming," as you claim, that Med'an's father had to be Lantresor; I was using Lantresor (who is, as you stated, currently the only other example of a half-draenei in the official canon) as an example.

Okay, now that that's been addressed, the discussion is closed.
Farseer Lolotea ● contrib 23:33, 3 February 2009 (UTC)

am i too bold to suggest... virgin birth? --Manuel (talk) 01:34, 29 January 2009 (UTC)

Blizzcast: Medivh?

In the latest Blizzcast Metzen talked about how the Order of Tirisfal things are something they want to get into (along with hint hint hint)and he mentioned at the end about how interesting it would be if the new guardian wasn't a human at all. Seems to me he is hinting that Med'an would be the new guardian which would mean the father is Medivh. Leviathon (talk)

This would not have to mean at all that Medivh is Med'an's father: before Medivh there were tons of Guardians of Tirisfal and as far as information regarding succession is known, only once did the associated powers transfer from a parent to offspring.AMBER^(RΘCK) 12:56, 30 January 2009 (UTC)

Well there has to be a transfer of power and Medivh was the last one. Just fits in perfectly with how things are right now and with what Metzen has hinted. Leviathon (talk) 03:58, 1 February 2009 (UTC)

Half-creatures

Half-creatures.... This kinda debate goes back pretty far. Even Tolkien discussed the issue when discussing Elrond. Elrond was a half-elf, though technically he was a combinaton of different types of Elves, Maiar, and some Man. His exact percentages is unknown. Half-elven became his surname, and he chose to view himself as an Elf rather than Human (though he was allowed to choose between the two).

The point here generally means in fantasy, people never usually look at each other as "Quarter", "Eighths", etc. Instead, "half" takes more of a definition of meaning "partial" of something, no matter what the definition is. Of course in Hawaii I'd point to the example of Hapa, hapa. In which case a word derived from "half" can apply to any percentage of blood.

One can also note that in the true definition of half when describing something, this holds true, "half" can mean "partial something", not necessarily fractionally half (1/2). "(2): falling short of the full or complete thing : partial <half measures> <a half smile>"[2].

In other words something can be half of something without actually being mathematically half (1/2), as one definition is that it is "partial" something.

NOTE: IF I DIDN'T MAKE THIS ABUNDENTLY CLEAR IN THE ENGLISH LANGUAGE (AND BORROWED ENGLISH IN CREOLE AND PIDGINS) HALF CAN HAVE THE DEFINITION OF PARTIAL OR OF MIXED DESCENT", HAVING PART OR LESS THAN THAN SOMETHING, ETC. IT DOESN'T NECESSARILY HAVE TO BE THE MATHAMATICAL FRACTION WITH THE EXACT DEFINITION OF 1/2 OF SOMETHING.

Uh hmmm, sorry, but I hope this linguistic lesson proved to be helpful in some way. Yes, I admit truth can be stranger than fiction.Baggins (talk) 04:28, 1 February 2009 (UTC)

Oh, and I should probably point out that by this particular definiton of half, hypothetically a peron could technically be "Half-norwegian half-japanese half native-american" (or name your favoite heinz 57). In other words the "Elrond" situation. I.E it has nothing to do with blood percentages.Baggins (talk) 04:46, 1 February 2009 (UTC)

I'm half-ketchup. Sssssssssssssssssssssssss For Pony! ^{{TDon't hiss at me.•CIf you do things right, people won't be sure you've done anything at all.)} 04:55, 1 February 2009 (UTC)

You are assuming that this particular definition of "half" is being used by Warcraft lore though. Before you say this or that person is or is not "half"-something because of "the true definition of half when describing something", it should be made clear if the definition is the same as the one being used by Warcraft. Hapa and hapa are not part of Warcraft lore. Rolandius (talk - contr) 05:01, 1 February 2009 (UTC)

If you aren't able to distingush between the reasons and the importance of using analogy in a discussion, then you really are quite a hopeless human being. Otherwise your comment is quite worthless. Books are written using the English language, and such English usage enters into the writing. Examples from RPG already point out that mathamatical percentage "half" is not always in use. The point here is "half' does have several meanings, and that both may fit under different contexts.

Its also an assumption to believe that half always means 1/2 and that the exact fraction is definiton being used by Warcraft Lore.

If you are trying to argue for the sake of argueing or are posted because of some kind of silly rivalry (i.e. In some lameass attempt try to discredit me, for who knows what reason), then BITE ME....

If you haven't noticed talk pages are based on alot of theorizing, speculaiton and assumptions, then you are obviously blind... Pointing out that fact doesn't get anyone anywhere. It always comes down to opinions. ...and opinons are like "asshles" everyones got one but thinsk everyone elses stinks... If all you have to say is "you are are assuming things", then shut up. Don't state the obvious... Don't be a hypocrite by attacking an assumption by making another assumption. So again I say BITE ME...Baggins (talk) 05:23, 1 February 2009 (UTC)

I was just pointing out that you said above "I should probably point out that by this particular definiton of half" meaning to me that there is more than one definition and you were picking one of them as the definite one. If you have info that "Examples from RPG already point out that mathamatical percentage "half" is not always in use." then write those here so other readers can see them instead of it looking like you are guessing which one is correct. After you show that the RPG agrees with you, then you can go from there because your definition has sources in Warcraft lore. Instead, you just said look at Hapa and hapa for the right definition of half. So although you said I am making an assumption, you are making a bigger assumption by just using links to non-Warcraft sources. We know that there are many sources saying "half" means 50%. Also, you might want to work on your commenting as it seems you are just calling names at me instead of giving good arguments. It doesn't make you look good. Rolandius (talk - contr) 06:16, 1 February 2009 (UTC)

You obviously missed the point of my post completely (I'm pointing out that contradictions don't actually exist and doesn't necessarily retcon previous known information). You also don't seem to understand what an analogy is. ...also you missed the references in the earlier part of the thread (...and they didn't even bring up the Leoroxx/Rexxar/half-ogre sons? issue). Not to mention you don't understand the context of the posts I was constrasting above; if you had been one of the previous posters I made references to, you would be in a better position to understand. But you were late to the party... and taking my post out of context. I'm not going to try to explain this to you further, you are a waste of my time. I'm going to ignore you, like I said BITE ME. But if anyone else wants to add anything worth discussing, good.Baggins (talk) 06:43, 1 February 2009 (UTC)

I agree with Baggins. In the English language "half" does not necessarily mean 50% when used outside of a mathematical context. And since the primary language of the Warcraft games is English, a reference to "half-orc" or "half-draenei" would follow the same rules. In terms of blood percentages Med'an might be 50% human, 25% orc and 25% draenei, but despite that the full name for his kind would be "half-human half-orc half-draenei". Maybe in Common he would be called something else, but that's beside the point because Common is replaced by English anyway. As is Orcish when playing from a Horde perspective. Jormungand  talk · contribs 11:07, 1 February 2009 (UTC)

but why bother Baggins? we all know in fantasy a race wich usually has mixed blood is usually know as Half-breed (or half-something by the way half-breed is a deoragatory name used in our own world) there is nothing to worry about that why telling us that we all know that its what it is part of the High Fantasy such as TOlkien :D --Manuel (talk) 12:32, 2 February 2009 (UTC)

Technically "half-breed" when used in the warcraft setting can be used both as a derogatory term (which we have seen examples in various stories) or as a technical term (classification in the rpg). If were were using it towards real life humans of mixed ethnic background it would be derogatory. Its ok to use it towards hybrid animals.Baggins (talk) 07:00, 3 February 2009 (UTC)

NOT Garona's Son?

Look at this. When the grey-skinned female (looks human, but I'm not sure) says "your son was bait, you were our target", Garona starts to reply "He's not my..."

The question: is she implying Med'an is not her son, is she tryign to protect him, or does it make sense in context? Xavius, the Satyr Lord 10:59, 20 February 2009 (UTC)

And in addition: is that really Garona? She looks different from the preview image (where she attacks Varian). Xavius, the Satyr Lord 00:08, 21 February 2009 (UTC)

Good point, I've updated both articles with the ? next to the relations. Also that grey skinned female looks Forsaken to me.Baggins (talk) 00:14, 21 February 2009 (UTC)

She is just negating that because she doesn't want that anyone know ... then why was she pregnant in the issue 15? and why is she always negating that it's her son in the past chapter? Well ovbiously to protect him. Benitoperezgaldos (talk) 00:39, 21 February 2009 (UTC)

"That half-orc, half-draenei boy over there? No, he's not my son, he's, uh, Lantresor's son! Yeah, Lantresor." Xavius, the Satyr Lord 15:02, 21 February 2009 (UTC)

She was in denial, obviously. gOurra[T҂C] 17:57, 21 February 2009 (UTC)

If Med'an isn't her son, someone else is.Baggins (talk) 18:00, 21 February 2009 (UTC)

Finally I got my copy. Cho'gall told to Garona that there is no point in denying that Med'an is her son, so it's obviously her son. Benitoperezgaldos (talk) 02:54, 10 March 2009 (UTC)

Father

Med'an's parentage is made clear in WoW #19, in an internal monologue by Meryl Winterstorm: "Light shine on me! Med'an looks like Aegwynn! That's who he reminded me of--! Can that mean his father--? But that's impossible. No... the timing's right. All these years, I've wondered -- should I tell Aegwynn? No, not yet. First, we get him back! I knew the boy had potential but not--no wonder that strange band attacked us!" Egrem (talk) 21:56, 21 May 2009 (UTC)

Looks like I got it half right when I postulated that Medivh was Garona's father... he's a father all right, just not hers. This also explains the name. Right, leave off the infobox for now. --Ragestorm (talk · contr) 23:08, 21 May 2009 (UTC)

I actually thought Med'an would be King Llane's son. Just imagine the story implications if the writers went that direction. However I think making him Medivh's son works and I'm hoping this will connect back to the Guardians of Tirisfal. (Omega2010 (talk) 06:08, 28 May 2009 (UTC))

The Guardians are gone, I think it would be a major lore foul-up if it turns out that Medivh wasn't the Last Guardian. ANyway, I think we should keep it out of the infobox, as it's still unconfirmed, but leave the mention in the article, obviously. --Ragestorm (talk · contr) 14:59, 28 May 2009 (UTC)

The Council of Tirisfal is already announced as "back again" for the next tome, so The New Guardian should follow quickly.

Loremaster A'noob, Arch Druid of the Noobhoof Clan (^talk/_contribz) 15:03, 28 May 2009 (UTC)

Another Theory on his Father

Just throwing this out there, what if Khadgar is his father? He and Garona had a very friendly relationship, and they seamed about the same age. I haven't read The Last Guardian in almost a year now so I don't remember everything clearly.--  Gwyain Talk Contribs 20:58, 6 July 2009 (UTC)

You should check the forum... Benitoperezgaldos (talk) 21:01, 6 July 2009 (UTC)

Father

It says "Medivh (father)". Is this 100% sure? Rolandius (talk - contr) 11:39, 4 August 2009 (UTC)

yes --N'Nanz (talk) 12:15, 4 August 2009 (UTC)

That doesn't make sense. I read The Last Guardian and don't recall Garona being alone with Medivh for any length of time. Khadgar was around Garona more than Medivh. In fact, Medivh was not around much of the time because he would leave on his mysterious "trips". Rolandius (talk - contr) 13:11, 4 August 2009 (UTC)

It is clear Blizzard desires for Med'an to play a pivotal role in the Warcraft universe. Perhaps he's going to be a major character in the next expansion, or the one thereafter or God knows when but apparently he's going to be a grand hero on par with Thrall. Because Med'an apparently means so much to Blizzard it shouldn't surprise you that Blizzard is willing to retcon a few things. They did that with the draenei and exhibitited a few interesting storytelling tricks to make the blood elves join the Horde. In short: Blizzard has done weirder stuff than backwardly granting Medivh and Garona some private time. Besides all of that, I invite you to read Secrets'. Besides Meryl's comments, Med'an has an amazing command over the arcane arts, almost unprecedented for someone his age. Almost? Yes, almost. Medivh was also known for his vast magical skills already available to him at a young age.AMBER^(RΘCK) 13:29, 4 August 2009 (UTC)

All it takes is ten or fifteen minutes of private time for these things to happen. -- Dark T Zeratul (talk) 19:28, 4 August 2009 (UTC)

I have heard a rumor—only a rumor, with little to no support—that they're going to kill him off in issue #25 (the last issue of the current series).  Despite...certain opinions...that I have on Med'an, that would be rather sloppy storytelling.
Farseer Lolotea • talk • contrib

It should also be pointed out that Alleria and Turalyon were retroactively given a relationship and that Aegwynn was retroactively given a way to survive. And yes, Lolotea, that woul be VERY sloppy storytelling indeed. --Ragestorm (talk · contr) 12:47, 19 August 2009 (UTC)