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Naga and the Old Gods

From Old Gods discussion, Naga and the Old Gods:

Okay I did some research and it looks like Blizzard left out some of the Naga lore on the worldofwarcraft.com site and it was filled in by the books.

From Richard A. Knaak Q&A Interview Part 2 - War of the Ancients Trilogy on BlizzPlanet.com:
2. There seems to be some confusion among fans. In the Lore forums, the discussion is whether Azshara struck a bargain with the Old gods or not. Whether the Old gods turned Azshara and her highborne into Naga, as their new servants.
Knaak: Yes, it was decided by Blizzard that the Old Gods were the reason for Azshara and her ilk becoming Naga. They wanted to tie the Old Gods in, better to the world.

So the implication is that the Naga owe the Old Gods for helping them survive the Sundering and the Maelstrom. --Fandyllic 5:48 PM PST 29 Mar 2006

Strangely later sources and I'm not talking just about the RPG, but the World of Warcraft.com (see the online Warcraft Encyclopedia) seem to go with a alternative view that it was the energies of the well of eternity that changed the naga, and no mention of the Old Gods. However since both are valid sources, I decided with Gourra to go down the middle, and combine the two sources. We can only guess what Blizzard actually believes at this point. I've added the citations from the website including additional ones from the ingame books and History of Warcraft article.Baggins (talk) 00:30, 20 June 2008 (UTC)

revision idea

I was just wondering if we might want to put in to this article that in the book Lands of Conflict it is speculated that the naga may have taken over the area of Gilneas DJ Talk

Naga case

Naga should take the lowercase, no?  Kirkburn talk contr 04:42, 29 January 2007 (EST)

I'd say so... like tauren. No plural doesn't necessarily make it a proper name. --User:Varghedin/Sig 07:44, 29 January 2007 (EST)

Old Gods

Section is redundant because it is already mentioned several times that the Naga are likely loyal to the Old Gods. I'd like a citation on the spell that they helped Illidan augment, because without that link, there is no actual evidence that Illidan has any links to the Old Gods. The Arakkoa mention was rightly removed, as the Old Gods have not demonstrated any presence on worlds other than Azeroth.--Ragestorm (talk · contr) 20:46, 3 June 2007 (UTC)

Ooh, actually I have to disagree with the last point - check out Harbinger Skyriss :) Even so, the information is not directly relevant to the naga. If anything, it should be speculated elsewhere, likely on the Old Gods page. Kirkburn talk contr 23:18, 3 June 2007 (UTC)
<shrug> first mention I have EVER heard of the Old Gods desiring to spread their control. Still, section is redundant unless I can get the citation on Illidan's spell. --Ragestorm (talk · contr) 23:28, 3 June 2007 (UTC)

Working on it, left my book at home (the sundering that is) :( I'm at work atm.

~ Peregrine

See above. --Ragestorm (talk · contr) 21:44, 20 June 2007 (UTC)

This speculation belongs on the Naga page, it is directly involved with the Naga's actions and is speculation about their true intent on Azeroth. It is just that, SPECULATION, so don't go treating me like I'm trying to pass it off as fact. Now I'd appreciate it if you'd stop deleting it. ~ Peregrine

As long as it is in the speculation section and has the the speculation template... I see no problem. Although I doubt there are any sources that will support it...Baggins 21:59, 20 June 2007 (UTC)

That's exactly what I'm saying... there is nowhere any text that says, "the Naga are serving the Old Gods' purposes." If there was, I wouldn't have tagged it as speculation. There is no solid PROOF, however there is EVIDENCE. ~ Peregrine

I'm all for theories, but this thing is somwhat repeated on many pages, some may have been removed buy pehaps a seperate page with the combined speculation is in order with links on the relevent pages?--SWM2448 22:08, 20 June 2007 (UTC)

Is it speculated a lot elsewhere? I was under the impression the the only place this particular theory was placed other than the Naga page was Illidan. And even then, the one on Illidan is about Illidan's role in the Old Gods' plans, not the Nagas. ~ Peregrine


Sandwich has got a point it oculd be streamlined a bit. Also theories that are allowed in articles are usually very common ones, or are referenced in lore. The only connection to old gods and naga comes from a reference in the WOTA trilogy and interveiw with the author?Baggins 22:19, 20 June 2007 (UTC)

Okay, well if you want it done you'll need to do it yerself, I'm about to sign off for the night :) ~ Peregrine

I'm not deleting it because it's speculation, I'm deleting it because it's already in the frakkin' article!!! This is not a revolutionary new theory, it's restatinga common presumption. The only things in this section that aren't in the article already is the line about malign purposes, and the thing about Vashj, which can be slipped in above.--Ragestorm (talk · contr) 23:06, 20 June 2007 (UTC)
Since nobody has bothered to defend it, I will remove the section again on the grounds that it's not being discussed. --Ragestorm (talk · contr) 14:42, 22 June 2007 (UTC)

Where is it already mentioned here in this article? Where, in this article, does it state the Naga are possibly, even probably, serving the Old Gods' twisted schemes? If you're going to delete my speculation, at least put my theory on this page elsewhere. ~ Peregrine

Why not try searching hte page for "Old Gods", I see it showing up in the first paragraph, and the racebox.Baggins 16:23, 22 June 2007 (UTC)


Ah, there we go. First section, talks about the reason for Vashj's alliance with Illidan. Huzza. ~ Peregrine

Tbh im just thinking here, if naga is allied with the old gods, then why do they help illidan who is at the point, still loyal 2 Kil'jaeden and the burning legion, as the old gods propably are pretty pissed for being jailed by the burning legions leader Saregas, later illidan betrays the legion, and the naga still stays loyal, but it seems wierd that they would help him when he tried 2 help the legion... Cattaclysmic (talk) 21:52, 10 February 2009 (UTC)

Intelligence

Where does it actually say that Naga females are smarter than the males? I never noticed much difference between them in the Frozen Throne. Coming Second 01:16, 2 August 2007 (UTC)

Good question, I have no idea. I'm tagging the lines for a citation. --Raze 01:34, 2 August 2007 (UTC)
Another thing to point out is that Warlord Kalithresh and Fathom-Lord Karathress seem to be in positions of power (albeit under Vashj), rather than being mere soldiers. --Raze 01:38, 2 August 2007 (UTC)
Sounds like an RPG fact to me. Ask the hobbit, if he's avaliable. --Ragestorm (talk · contr) 02:26, 2 August 2007 (UTC)
Sigh... haha... people who make assumptiosns off of so little evidence which is hardly good evidence to begin with...disappoint me... It is true females tend to take higher levels of power in Naga society... but the same goes for NE society, I've come to the conclusion by thoroughly studying the naga from diferent sources, such as Frozen throne, WoW and such, and with a little assuming, I find that I've found the answer to this discussion. Naga males are not less intelligent, they simply take a different position in the naga social ladder. the naga society is like a mix of the blood elvan and night elvan societies. Like in NE society, females are dominant, particularly because of a female leader(AKA Azshara) and because Azshara is an accomplished magic user, females in naga society, unlike in NE society, excel in magic use, this is similar to the Blood elf social workings in the sense that the government is headed by magic users, (The Magisters, Kael) only in Blood elf society, males are the more prevailent magic users. Now as to the naga male side, the males in this society, like the females in both NE and BE societies have done, have taken to the military sect of the Naga government. However just like in BE and NE societies there are some exceptions, like in the frozen throne, the naga Myrimidon are very accomplished magic users (considered to be the most powerful spellcasting unit in game). And so I hope my entry into this discussion makes sense to everyone.-Feldaldor, 2007
I think that actually has merit, but I don't think that the disputed fact isn't also true. Like Rage, I'm pretty sure that fact came out of the RPG. In the future, could you sign your posts using four tildes, like so: ~~~~? --Sky (t · c · w) 06:22, 9 August 2007 (UTC)
Naga Royal Guard is what you're thinking of. Coming Second 16:34, 9 August 2007 (UTC)

It says that female naga are smarter than the males on the naga page, right under "sexual dimorphism". Naga society is matriarchal, due to the women being magically and intellectually superior. It is because male naga are less intelligent that they take lower positions in the naga social ladder. The naga royal guard are indeed very powerful (though actually not the most powerful spellcasting unit in game), and quite accomplished spellcasters, but that is why they are the royal guard. I am quite sure that Azshara would take only the most smart and powerful male naga to be her guard. And while they wield powerful magics, there are still units with more powerful spells, and many female naga are more adept spellcasters. Also, do you recall how the more intelligence a hero in WarCraft III had, the more magically powerful that hero was? More intelligence equals more mana. And remember Cho'gall? The only reason he was able to be a warlock is because he was one of the rare, abnormally smart two-headed ogres.So it is certain that a magic user cannot be stupid, but must be intelligent. Female naga are said to be magically superior to the males from a fairly reliable source...this wiki. Hence, they are also smarter. Azshara is not the only reason that naga society is matriarchal. If you didn't believe that before reading this, I hope you do now. And I hope you can see that my assumptions are based off of ample and solid evidence. If you have an argument against anything I have written here, please post it, and I shall be glad to point out why I am still correct. --Mesethusela 05:14, 19 March 2008 (UTC)

Naga race...maybe?

This is more like a possibility being thrown out for consideration... but does anyone think it's possible Naga might become an actual playable WoW race? If so who do you suppose they'd be with? Horde? Alliance? Or possibly, as I've heard rumored, a new third party in the Warcraft frey?

Future race ideas sounds like what you need :) Kirkburn talk contr 06:15, 9 August 2007 (UTC)
Personally, I doubt it. From what I've read of Wrath Blizzard seem pretty keen to make both the Naga and the Nerubians pretty unrepetented, which is a great shame because I'd like to play them much more than those stupid walrus things. I assume this is because the character models for no legs/six legs would be too difficult. Coming Second 16:34, 9 August 2007 (UTC)
Grrr darn Blizzard then!!!!--Feldaldor
*Walks over to that crushed statue in Azshara.* "You maniacs! You blew it up! Oh, damn you! Damn you all to hell!" Seriously, I can't belive that there can be so few nagas that are fundamentally good, and that Blizzard decides to keep it that way! Seriously, there must have been a load of those who doubted the queen among those who stayed in the palace and transformed into the naga. Everybody who transformed into a naga can't be that fanatically loyal to her as the ones we have seen to far! I definitely want them playable, because at least one of them is involved in my RP character's story, and I can't move her story forward unless they become playable. Also, they are a lot hotter than some kind of humanoid Walrus. --Kulsprutejojjo 21:37, 14 August 2007 (UTC)
Oh I LOVE YOU KULSPRUTE!!!!!! *Pounces* ^^Feldaldor 00:02, 15 August 2007 (UTC)

Why are they loyal to Azashra at all. She has repeatedly shown herself as completly airheaded,narcistic,and self serving. you'd think there'd be more that realise that she's the cause of all their problems. Zarnks 01:41, 15 August 2007 (UTC)

There are three examples of friendly naga ingame. There's Skar'this the Heretic who serves the old gods, Zalashji who doesn't do or say anything and Meridith who has fallen in love a gnome for some reason. Zarnks 01:46, 15 August 2007 (UTC)

I think I need to throw the lot of you into the Maelstrom. --Ragestorm (talk · contr) 02:47, 15 August 2007 (UTC)

??? Zarnks 02:47, 15 August 2007 (UTC)

Aaaanyway, many of those who had doubts about Azshara left when they had the chance. The rest were all "airheaded, narcistic,and self serving" anyway, so I doubt they'd have a problem with Azshara. In any case, the Old Gods got a hold of them. Though, of course, there's always going to be that breakaway faction you have to gain rep with... Kirkburn talk contr 03:45, 15 August 2007 (UTC)

Do naga breed like everyone else or are they spawned from pools like the naga royal guards? Zarnks 03:48, 15 August 2007 (UTC)

They breed, as far as I know. And I believe many of those who stayed may have realized the queen's madness too late, and were stuck in the palace during the sundering. Also, just because some stayed doesn't mean all of them were highborne who didn't question the queen. It wouldn't suprise me if many of those who stayed also doubted the queen, but didn't take the chance to leave because of the risk of being caught, or maybe that they would get killed if they betrayed the queen. I mean, come on! They probably have their reason for not leaving when they could! For example, I'm writing a story involving a highborne Night Elf who makes her escape too late just because her child is being born. During her escape, she is captured and taken into the dungeons of the palace, where she is transformed into a naga. That is a good example of why someone would stay in the palace rather than escaping when having the chance, and there can be more reasons like that amongst the others who stayed, too. That's a reason why it shouldn't be too hard to make up lore that could make them a playable race. Blizzard did so with the Forsaken, and could surely do something similar with the naga. --Kulsprutejojjo 12:46, 15 August 2007 (UTC)
I'm growing fond of you you Kulsprute, you are correct all naga were turned into naga without being asked trapped in the pallace, they had no choice in becoming what they are. In fact Vasjh and company are themselves I believe a rogue group who answered Illidan's call and decided to lay their alliegence with him. Also, naga's current connection to the old gods is unclear. Of course I still hope blizz will realize their mistakes with their current lore and some how rework wow into having a third faction including BE's naga dreinei and Satyr...:D also Kulsprute where is this rp of yers? is it on wow? if so, what server?Feldaldor 09:21, 16 August 2007 (UTC)
Check Here if you want to read some of the basic details about the characters in my RP story. The naga is Salathis. --Kulsprutejojjo 12:32, 16 August 2007 (UTC)

Some People Already know but i am a HUGE FAN of the Naga! at all costs The Naga MUST be Playable!!!! or i will die! Naga FTW

Nobody knows what goes on within the maelstrom... hell, for all we know, Azshara could have been demoted, and The Old Gods or... that water elemental guy, can't recall his name... Neptulos, or something... anyway one of those could be in charge now. You never know. ~Peregrine

I second Ragestorm's comment. FYI, the Naga led by Vashj are still loyal to Azshara. Though, I don't believe we've been given information on how Illidan knew about the Naga, and whether or not Azshara supports him. --Austin P 20:08, 29 September 2007 (UTC)

Redundant

This article is WAY to redundant. Especially in the part of the two sexes. Can we get rid of some of it? Mr.X8 02:48, 27 October 2007 (UTC)

I counted six repetitions of 'Males are larger and stronger, and females are more intelligent and better spellcasters' or variations thereof. Maybe we can limit it to just the section on sexual dimorphism, or something like that. Evanfardreamer 13:52, 7 January 2008 (UTC)

Naga Can Be Playable!!!

Moved to User:Dragonnagaofthewater/Naga ideas

Addicted to magic?

Didn't Lady Vashj say that just like the blood elves, the naga are also addicted to magic? She said so in the end of the second Alliance mission in TFT, right? I think that this should be discussed in this article, given that the naga and blood elves share a common ancestry with the Highborne, and that the effects of this so-called "addiction" are not visibly being shown in-lore and in-game, unlike the blood elves. -- Kael's Pheonix 9:11, 3 January 2009

It is shown in lore with the naga anomalies. I think it is shown somewhat in-game too with some of the naga bosses looking mutated. Rolandius Paladin (talk - contr) 13:20, 3 January 2009 (UTC)

Trivia

Were did you guys get this stuff from? More spesificly, the hindu / Veda mythology stuff ?

I'd love too get my hands on more Naga lore and it's sources. --ByzantiosAE (talk) 02:25, July 25, 2012 (UTC)

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