Talk:Ner'zhul

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Read somewhere about the new book "Rise of the horde" where Ner'zhul is pictured as a hero for disobeying Kil'jaeden. Maybe we should add something about that

Not sure entirely what you mean. Do you mean that the book will portray him as a hero, or that the orcs in the book regard him as a hero? Either way, we won't include it until the book is published. --Ragestorm 14:09, 2 November 2006 (EST)

Based on the game manuals for WC3 and WoW, the original Ner'zhul didn't seem that bad to me. He made tentative contact with a demon and then realized his mistake and canceled the deal. From then on events were more or less out of his control.--Illidan Rocks 16:03, 10 January 2007 (EST)

RotH actually reveals that Ner'zhul was tricked into the deal- admittedly, his own streak of ambition and hedonism made him more supple, but he was still manipulated.--Ragestorm (talk · contr) 10:00, 11 January 2007 (EST)

I'm reading RotH right now and from all I've seen, Ner'zhul is genuinely regrettful of causing the orcs to be corrupted. though I haven't finished the book, I find it curious that during the second war he would openly embrace the demon magics and perpetuate the war by invading Azeroth. I understand his anger and generally pissed attitude once he became the Lich King, being tortured by Kil'jaeden and then getting locked into a block of ice, but even that doesn't fit with his "repented" attitude presented in the book. Am I the only one who's confused with this issue? --Geofram 23:11, 27 February 2007

I see Ner'zhul as a being with a good strong set of morals. However, he's willing to forsake these morals for the sake of ambition. For instance, he treats his Scourge servants with a relative amount of paternal love. For the most part he seems to regard Kel'thuzad and Arthas like his children (well Arthas at least). He's never been really portrayed as pure evil. The only people he's actively combated are the dreadlords, the legion and humanity. All of which were his enemies in life.--Aldrius 02:53, 9 May 2007 (EDT)

Umm... I think you'll find that he has been portrayed as something close to pure evil (he wasn't quite at that point yet) until RotH. In BtDP, he was the evil Warchief seeking to bend the powers of Sargeras to give the Orcs new, rich worlds to conquer. In the RoC manual, he lacked only the "brazen audacity" to carry out Kil'jaeden's plan, and in the game... well, I think the Scourge speaks for himself. You're right that he has morals he gives up in the face of ambition, but the whole "liches as children" thing is a bit of a stretch...--Ragestorm (talk · contr) 09:15, 9 May 2007 (EDT)

Spirititually speaking, Ner'zhul is pretty much dead,if he didn't die in the events of the second war,he died when he became the lich king. Zarnks 03:48, 4 July 2007 (UTC)

Correction, spiritually speaking, Ner'zhul is "undead".Baggins 04:44, 5 July 2007 (UTC)

I mean the good in him is dead

I doubt the good in him is dead, maybe just forgotten. But the story said that "at that moment, the orc known as Ner'zhul was shattered forever". But if you read Rise of the Horde, you will see that he was trying to do the right thing, he wasn't evil, just tricked and misunderstood. He was one of the wisest people in Warcraft history, he aimed to save his people from evil. It was not intentional to lead them into the very heart of it. Baldr 00:46, 27 September 2007 (UTC) Zarnks 16:21, 10 July 2007 (UTC)

Contents 1 successions 2 Warlock 3 Portals 4 The Note 5 Defeated the legion 6 Evil?

successions

Added two more successions that i believe ner'zhul was part of, the fact he created the first horde and his position in the shadowmoon clan --Diggory 08:00, 29 January 2007 (EST)

Removed the Shadowmoon one, as they're no point in having it if both preceding and succeeding are unknown. --Ragestorm (talk · contr) 08:38, 29 January 2007 (EST)

Warlock

Did he become a warlock (and gain a cool robe) some time between the start of the first war and the BtDP or was that retconed? The way I see it, he sucummed to/embraced demonic corruption but still had a deep hatred for what Kil did to his people, so he tried to find a new unspoiled world to invade and start over (or try, the orcs were still pretty bloodlusted) and save his people.--SWM2448 00:29, 6 June 2007 (UTC)

It's never clear, but it does appear that he was some brand of warlock for a while, but it's implied that that stopped when Gul'dan usurped him. --Ragestorm (talk · contr) 03:46, 6 June 2007 (UTC)

Portals

How many portals did this guy open and to where? Besides the portal from Outland (Draenor) to Azeroth. Mr.X8 01:34, 7 June 2007 (UTC)

Gul'dan opened that one. There's never been a number given for how many gates were opened, though four is the absolute minimum. Probably at least two or three times that number. As to where, various planets in the Twisting Nether. --Ragestorm (talk · contr) 01:49, 7 June 2007 (UTC)

Really... Then I have a theory on this and the worgen. Maybe when Ner'zhul opened a portal to another planet he opened a portal to the worgen's homeworld. Which besides the scythe is also how they got here cause it says Velinde saw the Worgen fighting the Burnin Legion on their planet. Mr.X8 02:40, 7 June 2007 (UTC)

Well he had one in Zangarmarsh and one or more in Nagrand, the Blade's dge mountains is a good bet, and Netherstorm, well that is kind of self-explanitory. Baldr 00:46, 27 September 2007 (UTC)

See Dimensional gateway.--SWM2448 00:50, 27 September 2007 (UTC)

The Note

In my opinion, this note is just silly:

"It is not known if the Lich King is aware that Thrall is Durotan's son, who was the only orc chieftain on Draenor to listen to his warnings. If he ever would find out, it is unknown if he would still spare him should the Scourge invade Kalimdor..."

Ner'zhul has been very twisted since the days of old. He is no longer the wisened, good Shaman that warned Durotan of the coming disaster. He no longer got a conscience, and appearantly feel no remorse at all for killing scours of innocient people. I very much doubt he would even have any regret in raising the body of his deceased mate Rulkan as a mindless undead. So I see no reason why he would spare any at all, and I doubt Thrall would been granted mercy. Besides, Durotan was the only chieftain that actually was warned by Ner'zhul.--Odolwa

While the presence of Arthas in his being, who is undeniably sociopathic, would change things, there's nothing to say that he couldn't remember his conscience temporarily, when he discovers that an enemy is the family of one of his trusted peers.Iwanttobeasleep 05:23, 10 November 2007 (UTC)

I wouldn't go so far as to say Ner'Zhul and Durotan were peers. It seems from RotH that Durotan was the most visible person who distrusted Gul'Dan. It seems more that Ner'Zhul and Durotan briefly had their interests aligned and Ner'Zhul wanted to help bring down Gul'Dan to help the orcs. There is no evidence Durotan was a peer let alone trusted. yorgiorgiorg

Defeated the legion

Its been noted that Ner'zhul planned for the Legion to fail (Quotes Arthas "The master i serve will benifit from the Legions downfall). What if the only reason that Nerzuel summond the legion was to defeat it (as well as to destroy all life on the planet but he needed them to kill the legion 1st)(What better way to kill your boss than to invite them to your house and have a huge knife in your hand and say "Why dont you just sit down while I prepare your dea.. eh danish.) Its like a strategy not so commonly used this warcraft 3 throzen throne custom game Azeroth wars strategy. After defeating all oposing factions summon the Legion just so you can lure Archimonde to his doom that is right out side of the portal XD --The last Alterac 06:52, 24 October 2007 (UTC) (Btw if any of you guys are interested the name is anomynous-167 I apear on the servers us east and europe

Ner'zhul was ordered to bring the Legion into Azeroth, and was policed by the Dreadlords. Of course, the second their backs were turned, he instructed Arthas and Kel'Thuzad to start preparing their dea... err, danish. --Ragestorm (talk · contr) 13:13, 24 October 2007 (UTC)

Evil?

Is Ner'zhul really as evil as he seems to be? He was mostly deceived and enslaved. Kil'jaeden tricked him into giving the orcs over to him in the guise of his past mate, only to realize that Kil'jaeden was in fact an evil entity come to destroy/enslave the orcs. When he tried to fix his mistake he was disposed of and replaced by Gul'dan. (He did also try to warn his people of their coming destruction if they drank the Blood of Mannoroth.)

Then after Gul'dan failed and Ner'zhul attempted to escape the wrath of Kil'jaeden, Ner'zhul ended up coming face to face with him, was tortured and made to choose, to be tortured for eternity or to serve. Of course he chose to serve, and eventually became the Lich King and has tried and succeeded in the merciless slaughter of many people, but he was faced with a tough choice: Eternal torture or eternal service.

So is Ner'zhul really an evil being, or was he just looking out for his own well being? Or perhaps he became evil after being tortured for that unimaginably long amount of time. I'd probably end up evil too after that :P Jpsblue 02:57, 5 June 2008 (UTC)

I'd say he became evil after the torture thing, after reading the path of damnation. I'm sure the novelization of Beyond the Dark Portal will clear it up a little, though.Tweak the Whacked (talk) 03:04, 5 June 2008 (UTC)

Even after defeating the Burning Legion, though, he's still spreading the Scourge. He may have had a tragic history, sure, but there's no question about his evil now. -- Dark T Zeratul (talk) 06:28, 5 June 2008 (UTC)