Talk:Ruin

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Concerning the classic SM/Ruin:

The most common setup I've seen that is (from my view of the mechanics) used improperly is the old SM/Ruin build. On the 60 system, this was quite a valid build but when applied to the 70 talent list it simply fails to provide the best possible DPS for low to middle tier raiding warlocks.

Addressing Shadow Bolt alone:

C = Number of Crits per 10 Shadow Bolt CP = Crit Power N = Normal hits NP = Normal Power

C(CP) + N(NP), simple stuff, this is a comparison of a Shadow Mastery/Demonic Sacrifice/Bane setup (30/21/10) vs. SM/Ruin stock. Given this is a raid comparative and any buffs/debuffs applied will be present for both setups they are considered moot and removed from the calculation. The calculations include all pertinent buffs as moot (including SM, which is present in both setups) and is simply comparing the delta of notable talents from each setup. For Shadow Mastery/Ruin the talents are Ruin and Devastation. For DS the talent is simply: Demonic Sacrifice.

Scenario #1 is a stock raid lock with sufficient +dmg to deliver 2k sbolts, and has 15% spell crit in gear. The first layout will have the 5% increased critical hit rate for destruction, while the second will not but will have DS instead. This scenario would be your classic Tier III/IV with good enchants. (~900-1k bonus spell damage).

SM/R (2k Bolt, 15+5% Destro Crit): 2(4000)=8000 + 8(2000)=16000 = 24000

SM/DS (2k*1.15 Bolt, 15% Destro Crit) 1.5(3450)=5175 + 8.5(2300)=19550 = 24725

So a warlock of this virtual tier (III/IV) would improve their Shadow Bolt damage by slightly over 2.9322% by moving to SM/DS/Bane.

Reality check: if you have an appreciable amount of +spell hit (180-200) necessary to make good use of Shadow Bolt and you're not kitted to the brim in the best of pre-SSC/BoE gear, this is likely your virtual tier. It's not a bad tier to be in either, this would be an 800-900 DPS extended-term, 1-1.1k short term DPS Warlock, well suited for raiding purposes.

Scenario #2: If we move the crit rate up to 25% (+10% of last example) for both parties, while maintaining the same +dmg we have a result of...

SM/R (2k Bolt, 25+5% Destro Crit): 3(4000)=12000 + 7(2000)=14000 = 26000

SM/DS (2k*1.15 Bolt, 25% Destro Crit): 2.5(3450)=8625 + 7.5(2300)=17250 = 25875

With 10% additional spell crit, the delta switched to SM/R leading, but not as much as what may have been perceived initially. The difference now is slightly over 0.4807% in Ruins favour. It took 10% spell crit added to the first scenario to raise Shadow Bolt damage on SM/Ruin by slightly over 3.4130%. This is assuming no spell hit or damage was lost in the process from the appreciably high rate of the first example.

Reality check: Near perfect spell hit with 25% crit (disincluding talents) and 1k bonus damage is not exceedingly easy to pull off. If you do, bravo.

This is without considering the options you're left with on utilising the remaining 10 talents offered by SM/Ruin.

For Affliction's utilisation of excess talents, the only general case raid beneficial use of SM/Ruin, would be 5/5 Contagion for its +5% bonus to Corruption and 3/3 Malediction for its +3% bonus to element damage.

For Destruction in regards to spending the extra 10, you really only have a better Immolate to show for 10 talents use.

For Demonology you could get a little more survivability.

These mediocre bonuses from 10 talents use has to compete with SM/DS/Bane's talent utilisation which includes the highest points of damage output available for all 3 trees.

In close, it was a nice Pre-61-Talent spec, but the old dog needs to die until it comes of use in the latter portions of the game (end of virtual Tier 5 or higher gear). This is excepting the Warlock or two in a raid that should have it simply to utilise the raid DPS output bonus of Malediction, while sacrificing some of their DPS.

Histasius 14:00, 6 October 2007 (UTC)