Talk:Rumored Races/Archive10

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Contents 1 Elementals 1.1 Garm's Elementals 1.2 Arguments for Elementals 1.3 Arguments against Elementals 2 Races for removal 2.1 Makrura 2.2 Half-ogres 2.3 Lost Ones 2.4 Harpys 2.5 Mo'arg 2.6 Dragonspawn and draconid 3 High elves 4 Tuskarr, old and incorrect information 5 Ogres, Again 6 Races for adding 6.1 Pit Lords 6.2 Owlkins 6.3 Qiraji 6.4 Vykrul 6.5 High elves (#2) 7 Quilboar 8 Archive? 9 Pandaren not part of alliance (TBC Interviews) 10 Horde's opinion on Naga 11 Gnolls need an update 12 Ethereal neutrality 13 Ethereal armor 14 Annihilan 14.1 General 14.2 For the Alliance? 14.3 For the Horde? 14.4 Comments 15 Mangletooth 16 Half-Elves

Elementals

• Should Elementals be placed on this? Garm 14:18, 22 September 2007 (UTC)

"Humanoid" would be a prerequisite, I think. Although you can never be sure with Blizzard.--K ) (talk) 15:05, 22 September 2007 (UTC)

Elementals are already shaman pets.   Zurr  T ∙ C 16:11, 22 September 2007 (UTC)

Good one. They would of course be shamans. Maybe primal elementals.--K ) (talk) 16:12, 22 September 2007 (UTC)

If elementals get put on then High Elfs can return...theres a bigger chance for high elfs than elementals.--Gurluas 16:14, 22 September 2007 (UTC)

No there isn't. High elves are way to similar to blood elves. How you found a connection between elementals and high elves is beyond me too.   Zurr  T ∙ C 16:36, 22 September 2007 (UTC)

Easy to guess. Gurluas has just turned in a biased comment. Never mind those.--K ) (talk) 16:45, 22 September 2007 (UTC)

Alright; I placed elementals in there. Everybody LOOK IT OVER! Garm 17:47, 22 September 2007 (UTC)

LOL Kralnor. All 4 elemental types are with the cult. With the draenei shammys both can have them, but the horde is more likely to get them. Elemental spirits do not serve the old gods. The wind and earth leaders are not too bad. The evil centaur are half earth elmental.--SWM2448 17:57, 22 September 2007 (UTC)

How i did? anyone says high elfs wont be playable, the same could be said for elementals, its like saying elwynn cows will be playable, and high elfs are worlds apart the current blood elfs, the ONLY resemblance, is the body size, and structure. --Gurluas 17:51, 22 September 2007 (UTC)

GG, elementals isn't needed at all... Their are too many varieties, they aren't humanoids, unless you count Flamewakers... They are already used as pets for Shamans and Mages. Plus many basically use the same frame and animations as bog beasts and void walkers...Baggins 18:03, 22 September 2007 (UTC)

Garm's Elementals

General

+ The Hydraxian Waterlords are a great example of elementals that can request the help of mortal races.

+ The elementals can manipulate races into joining them (Ragnaros, for example, is ever-so controlling over the Dark Iron Dwarves, and uses his firey brethren to keep them in line) via persuasion or use of force.

+ Elementals are friendly towards shamans in-game.

? Elementals, while unable to use mounts, could have an ability such as the taurens' Plainsrunning.

- The Wind elementals are in an alliance with the Twilight's Hammer cultists, notorious enemies of both the Alliance and the Horde.

Which ones use the bog beasts?--SWM2448 18:05, 22 September 2007 (UTC)

Beats me... I'm thinking bog beasts themselves... I told everyone to LOOK IT OVER...Garm 18:08, 22 September 2007 (UTC)

I'm not completely sure, but the upper body animation of the bogbeasts seems very similar to the water elemental/fire elemental arm and head movements. As for "new ideas" I'd suggest putting them in the talk page before adding them directly into the article. In order for people to see it better, and be able to make a better decision on it. Once its been voted on essentially, then it can be decided to add it in.Baggins 18:15, 22 September 2007 (UTC)

I looked it over, gave feedback, and changed nothing.--SWM2448 22:31, 22 September 2007 (UTC)

You are allowed to change it, as long as is ain't erased. If you feel it is inaccurate, LOOK IT OVER again and add facts. Garm 23:40, 22 September 2007 (UTC)

Are elementals even sentenial?- Airiph/T/C/B 23:54, 22 September 2007 (UTC)

Sentient. Yes they are.--SWM2448 00:30, 23 September 2007 (UTC)

Garm; You ignored the intro to the page;

"This page should only be edited after changes are discussed through peer review here. Please discuss ideas on the talk page if you feel there should be changes to the main article, so the page does not become a battle field for clashing ideas."

In, other words you need to get feedback from peers before you add any new sections to article. Something as silly as elementals definitely needs to be discussed in here first to see what people think, not in the article itself.Baggins 17:47, 23 September 2007 (UTC)

You know what? You're absolutely right. Let's discuss. ^_^ Garm 22:58, 26 September 2007 (UTC)

Arguments for Elementals

+Elementals are sentinent, unique, and original. Blizzard would pick them if they wanted to. The Hydraxian Waterlords are perfect examples of elementals who would want the help of mortals. The Twilight's Hammer cult is only orchestrated by wind and rock elementals in Silithus in terms of elementals. Fire elementals show that the elementals can force themselves into any alliance with any race they want. What could go wrong for them? Garm 14:53, 29 September 2007 (UTC)

Arguments against Elementals

As several quest chains have proven, elementals can be easily manipulated by magical bracers. Some elementals have tried rebelling, like Aquantion but can just get their bracers replaced. IE: Summon Water Elemental, All elementals including voidwalkers have bracers... what I'm saying is that the elementals are an easily manipulated race. Ragnaros only conqured the Dark Irons due to the fact he is not just an elemental: he is an Old God.--Mantriox/Talk/Contributions 20:40, 14 November 2007 (UTC)

Actually, no he isn't; he's an Elemental Lord. But all the same, he does have a vast amount of power. --V - Talk / Spam

Races for removal

Because there are too many sections about removing races I created this section.

I think races that need to be removed shude be put in a subsection in this section (including the existing sections about removing races).

Do the admins agree. Zakolj 18:27, 22 September 2007 (UTC)

Makrura

First of does anyone disagree with removing Makrura, because they are the least likely of all the races on the page and shude be removed. Zakolj 18:27, 22 September 2007 (UTC)

... People have an imagination. If they want Makruras in the Alliance, they can state their opinion. Not everything on the list is possible, but we have hopes and imaginations, too. Some days people learn that. Garm 18:29, 22 September 2007 (UTC)

Mr. Pilkington has a band and tries to join Illegal Danish... OK it is fan fiction...--SWM2448 18:31, 22 September 2007 (UTC)

About High Elfs! i want them back!and we know almost nothing about makrura, i say Keep. But i say remove Lost Ones--Gurluas 18:35, 22 September 2007 (UTC)

However we do remove the least likely from game play standpoint and relation to official lore. If something requires rewriting official lore or mechanics of a race (i.e. rampant speculation, and hypothetical what-ifs, generally the kind of stuff we strive to leave out of the articles) in order to put them on the page, then its probably even less likely to be playable. In this case we are talking about a pre-technological race, that doesn't even wear clothes, and rarely uses weapons, and are treated more like beasts than humanoids. If people want to create a fanfic on how to add them into the game it probably should be under their "user:/" page.Baggins 18:35, 22 September 2007 (UTC)

To Garm I even think magnataur and High elves are more likely shude we add them again and others, people have imaginations true, but shude this page be about every race in the warcraft universe, there are fan fiction pages and people shude put links to them in the Notes and other idea pages section. So in short why were the other races removed then. Zakolj 19:06, 22 September 2007 (UTC)

Baggins, my comment was a joke that should have been gotten by you. It is not a WoWWiki fan fic, it is a popular independant one. Nevermind, you ment user race theories.--SWM2448 20:21, 22 September 2007 (UTC)

My message was to garm not you, LOL.Baggins 00:13, 23 September 2007 (UTC)

This is blasphemy... THIS IS MADNESS! Garm 00:33, 23 September 2007 (UTC)

THIS IS SP- Wait, no it isn't.--SWM2448 00:34, 23 September 2007 (UTC)

I say keep Makrura. They're original, which is what Blizzard would choose them for. Garm 00:35, 23 September 2007 (UTC)

"Not everything on the list is possible, but we have hopes and imaginations, too."

Sorry to burst your bubble Garm, but we'd like to keep everything on the list within the 'possible' boundary. Acknowledged that makrura are unusual and orginal as fantasy races go, but with all the information we have on them it'll be several retcons and an entire racial redesign should they ever become playable. Right now, they're not suitable either physically or lore-wise: so I say they go. For now. --V - Talk / Spam

You told me that same saying and I believe it. Now you're just contradicting yourself in your game of Devil's Advocate... Garm 21:38, 26 September 2007 (UTC)

Having enough culture for the possibility of a non-playable faction is another story?--SWM2448 19:36, 23 September 2007 (UTC)

They'd be perfect for a non-playable faction ya.Baggins 19:37, 23 September 2007 (UTC)

So they should be removed, right? Zakolj 13:27, 24 September 2007 (UTC)

I dont get this, Makrura seemed to be a very possible race lorewise.

What changed suddenly? --Gurluas 10:12, 30 September 2007 (UTC)

Half-ogres

They are a half-bread race shude we add half-elves and half-orcs, true they are very popular because of Rexxar, but they just look like big brown-skinned orcs, it's more likely Blizzard will just add brown skins for playable orcs (maybe even in Wrath of the Lich King). Zakolj 19:06, 22 September 2007 (UTC)

Blizz wouldn't pick 'em. I cosign with removing them. They're already a Horde-aligned faction in-game. What more would they want? Garm 00:38, 23 September 2007 (UTC)

I agree. Besides, purebreds have far more potential than "half" races. --Morlu 17:23, 23 September 2007 (UTC)

Orcs are already playable, and ogres make for a more physically and culturally unique choice. They're also Outland-based, few in number and... well, I don't think I need to add any more. Half-ogres won't happen. I'd bet on it. --V - Talk / Spam

Lost Ones

Since we took out broken, shouldn't we take out lost ones? Broken where more likly anyway.- Airiph/T/C/B 17:51, 22 September 2007 (UTC)

Yes.--SWM2448 17:57, 22 September 2007 (UTC)

Not necessarily. Lost ones were the original draenei before all the retcons (I hate to say it, but Zarnks was right about something). Blizzard divided all the draenei by how sane/Light-worshipping they were. Garm 18:07, 22 September 2007 (UTC)

Lost ones are the least sane.--SWM2448 18:17, 22 September 2007 (UTC)

I thought the retcons were silly too, but c'est la vie...--Baggins 18:20, 22 September 2007 (UTC)

What in the world does that mean? Garm 18:21, 22 September 2007 (UTC)

Even if the Lost Ones are a different enough race from the original draenei, they are insane, hostile, and barely even willing to communicate with any other race than their own. Besides, their mental state barely even makes them a sentinent race, only capable of the most primitive magics and hunting for food. I must also note that their reckless behavior has made even the uncorrupted draenei to look at them with pity. I should also add that they kill any orcs on sight, unless they have a very good reason not to. --Kulsprutejojjo 20:25, 22 September 2007 (UTC)

I agree with Kulsprutejojjo, and that they shude be removed. Zakolj 20:45, 22 September 2007 (UTC)

So I`m gona delete it,if I shouldnt have done that just revert it- Airiph/T/C/B 23:58, 22 September 2007 (UTC)

I see no problem.Baggins 00:12, 23 September 2007 (UTC)

Harpys

A flying race, it shude be removed. Zakolj 20:01, 22 September 2007 (UTC)

Definitely, unless Blizzard screws up the lore completely by making a plucked harpy community, which is just so idiotic that I would quit WoW. Period. I could accept that they changed draenei appearance drastically, since the past were mutated ones, but changing a race's appearance and functions completely, and still calling it the same race, would be a real dissapointment. And there is no chance harpies can be playable in their current state. Natural flying ability just won't work for many reasons. In my opinion, of the technical difficulities races, harpies is the least probable race to become palyable. Even lore additions and changes can remedy that! --Kulsprutejojjo 20:16, 22 September 2007 (UTC)

A hovering race?--SWM2448 20:17, 22 September 2007 (UTC)

With Harpies, there are no males... original harpy lore compounds this fact. Garm 00:33, 23 September 2007 (UTC)

Actually, lore wise, according to Monster Guide hints that there may be males, they just haven't been encountered and recorded by researchers.Baggins 01:48, 23 September 2007 (UTC)

Uh... I'm not sure with harpies. You may say that they're a flying race, but they seem to put one hell of a lot of effort in keeping themselves just hovering at only a few metres above the ground. Flying at any height or for long distances seems unlikely to me. Then again, they don't have much to hold weapons with, can't make anything larger than a nest and have a culture that leaves much to be desired. Nevertheless, they are a race that we know little about and it won't take much to completely change their angle to be more compatible. Something keeps me from saying yes or no. I don't know... keep them or remove them, I won't worry about it. --V - Talk / Spam

I think there would be something creepy about harpies if they landed started walking, and pulling out huge weapons to attack you.Baggins 19:48, 23 September 2007 (UTC)

True... that's what makes gargoyles so creepy in fantasy. That and their faces. --V - Talk / Spam

Mo'arg

Who thinks this was a good idea, I think they shude be removed. Zakolj 20:49, 22 September 2007 (UTC)

Reasons? It's "should" btw, it's going to annoy me otherwise. Kirkburn talk contr 20:52, 22 September 2007 (UTC)

It could be draeneiesque lore. You shude spell correctly.--SWM2448 20:53, 22 September 2007 (UTC)

Demons most likely would not fit into the Alliance or Horde, but if Blizzard were to introduce more factions, they may be a possibility. --Morlu 17:26, 23 September 2007 (UTC)

I think what was there was good. It fit.--SWM2448 17:31, 23 September 2007 (UTC)

Mo'arg have much to be fleshed out (hell, they only recieved their race name with the last expansion) and we've seen that servants of the Burning Legion don't always remain faithful time and time again. There may be a possibility of them joining a faction (the Horde, probably) should they leave the Burning Legion or the Illidari: think of them as possible orc- or Forsaken-a-likes. They're feasible with absolutely no lore bending. There's some possibility there, if only a little. --V - Talk / Spam

Plus its been stated that the demon races (most if not all) were originally mortal races corrupted by the Burning Legion's fel power, as far back as Manual of Monsters.Baggins 19:54, 23 September 2007 (UTC)

Sorry for suggesting them. Zakolj 13:27, 24 September 2007 (UTC)

Dragonspawn and draconid

Playable dragons,to be honest I dont see that happening.Any other ideas about that?- Airiph/T/C/B 02:12, 23 September 2007 (UTC)

OBJECTION!

Garm: I think drakonids would be a splendid idea. It would just be a yellow dragonflight that mirrors/parodies the Simpsons lore-wise and gameplaywise.

I think smaller Drakonids are more likely than dragonspawns, i vote delete Drakonid,(and readd high elfs.)

Why do you insist on readding high elves? Garm 10:23, 23 September 2007 (UTC)

Because high elves have a great potential, and im sure blizzard could find a way to make them different from blood elves, plus with so many unlikely races, high elves could be added too, no?--Gurluas 11:20, 23 September 2007 (UTC)

You want to add high elves, make a new section for it on this page. You won't find much support though. Kirkburn talk contr

Sweeeeet :) il make it look good --Gurluas 16:46, 23 September 2007 (UTC)

Dragonspawn seem unlikely to me with the existance of the very similar, but more humanoid drakonids (less problems!). Nevertheless, this does not cancel them out. If centaur and cenarians are possible, so too are dragonspawn. --V - Talk / Spam

I still say its very very unlikely Dragonspawns become playable, Drakonids are much more likely.

High elves

OK since there are high Elf fans here, I`m gonna ask for reasons why there are unlikly, and I`ll answer them! (try not to say anything rude because my lil` cousin is learning to read this and I can`t control it) Also give an expansion they can probuly fit in.- Airiph/T/C/B 16:47, 23 September 2007 (UTC)

LRN 2 SPL. There are not that many high elves left for one.--SWM2448 17:00, 23 September 2007 (UTC)

My guess is personally the great sea expansion, as their new homeland could be an island, also supported by the large ammount of sea faring high elves, like Captain Thalo'thas Brightsun. Most people thinks they are unlikely because most are dead, or have become blood elves, plus their language is in the hands of blood elves(originally the blood elves should have a language named Sin'darin, maybe back then they planned to have High elves), yet still the race is very interesting lorewise, and gameplay wise, and especially roleplay wise.--Gurluas 17:03, 23 September 2007 (UTC)

Ok, I see this all the time in the WoW forums,There are more High Elves than Darkspear Trolls and Gnomes!Also Ive bean thinking the exact same,On my map I put High Elves in Gilneas.(for a reason!)- Airiph/T/C/B 17:09, 23 September 2007 (UTC)

Also don`t you spell it learn to spell? =P  Airiph/T/C/B 17:11, 23 September 2007 (UTC)

You can say there are more high elves, but they are also much more spread, take a look at them, a few are in stormwind, a few in theramore, a few in outland etc, If theese high elves can somehow unite, then there are many many more high elves than gnomes and dark spear trolls.--Gurluas 17:28, 23 September 2007 (UTC)

Doesn`t mean they can`t reunite now does it?Any other reasons to throw at me other than population?- Airiph/T/C/B 17:31, 23 September 2007 (UTC)

They can reunite, if the allerian high elfs, come home and rejoin the stormwind and theramore high elfs then you have enough. i am for one supporting high elves as playable race, especially because id love to disguise myself as a blood elf forexample. Another common reason people throws is that they are too similar to blood elves, and that we got to many elven races.--Gurluas 17:34, 23 September 2007 (UTC)

Them looking too much like Blood Elves would be alot of fun in battle grounds,and language would either have their language and have the ability to communicate with Blood Elves,or they can have the Elven language.Also "too many Elven races" People, there are only two!Possibly three!Anything else?- Airiph/T/C/B 17:40, 23 September 2007 (UTC)

At this point they will never give one race the ability to communicate with opposing faction. When the game was first being designed they were going to let everyone communicate with each other, then they limited it only to the Forsaken and Humans. What they discovered was either it lead to people insulting each other with harsh language, or helping each other out. They wanted antagonism to go on between the factions but didn't want it to break down into language battles. They wanted to avoid races becoming friendly and helping each other.Baggins 17:53, 23 September 2007 (UTC)

So they can use the elven language!- Airiph/T/C/B 17:56, 23 September 2007 (UTC) P.s.anything else

Or invent a language, sort of like how the blood elves were planned to invent Sindarin--Gurluas 18:01, 23 September 2007 (UTC)

Kael was only a blood elf in "style" back then, he was still a high elf and so were his followers, he transformed to a "real" blood elf once he began siphoning demonic magic.--Gurluas 18:04, 23 September 2007 (UTC)

Yeah...I have class ideas here:Buccaneer,Classes Ranger, Hunter, Mage, Priest,and Paladin!- Airiph/T/C/B 18:07, 23 September 2007 (UTC)

I have a more accurate one here: Warrior,Hunter,Mage,Priest,Druid(possible redemption with nature,the rangers of quel'thalas were druids. And i doubt high elves would become paladins...blood elves only turned paladins because they stole the light from the naaru, while existing, high elf paladins were extremely rare, and certainly not to a playable degree)--Gurluas 18:10, 23 September 2007 (UTC)

"Or invent a language, sort of like how the blood elves were planned to invent Sindarin"

Inventing a new language for a race that has spoken Thalassian for millenia is not very likely. It would have made more sense for blood elves to make a new language in order to distance themselves from their high elven "cousins" and prevent cross-communication between the two races. I suppose though they could decide to consider them seperate "thalassian dialects" and let both have Thalassian but not be able to communicate with each other due to the differences between dialects.

As for Kael, he was still a blood elf. He states himself and I roughly paraphrase that they are blood elves, and no longer hold any beef with night elves. Plus he only encountered a small portion of the night elves. Plus if you go to lore pretty much the moment they joined Naga and Illidan the Alliance as a whole turned on them. See Alliance & Horde Compendium. Its stated that high elves are not allowed in northern Kalimdor in night elven lands, throughout the entire RPG.Baggins 18:12, 23 September 2007 (UTC)

Huh?- Airiph/T/C/B 18:14, 23 September 2007 (UTC)

I still think High Elves would create a new dialect/language rather than use Thalassian, since the high elves want to distance them from the Blood Elves(and gameplay reasons)--Gurluas 18:15, 23 September 2007 (UTC)

But not quite as diffrent as orcish and common because it`s a DIALECT not a diffrent language,- Airiph/T/C/B 18:18, 23 September 2007 (UTC)

They want to distance themselves from blood elves but that doesn't mean distance themselves from their heritage, they want to remain true to what it means to be high elves, and Thalassian is one of those deep seeded parts of their heritage. Its one of the things that other races respect about the race, and is one of the three main original Arathor languages, so has very deep rooted cultural heritage to the Alliance as a whole. The three languages of Common, Dwarven and Thalassian was used to the name "Lordaeron".Baggins 18:23, 23 September 2007 (UTC)

Airiph it depends ont he source, but Darnassian and Thalassian are described as being "two different languages" in most sources. Only a few sources describe them as "dialects" so Blizzard is kinda wishy washy on the issue. And Darnassian and Thalassian can't be understood between cultures, its changed that much.Baggins 18:24, 23 September 2007 (UTC)

Ahh I understand now.- Airiph/T/C/B 18:27, 23 September 2007 (UTC)(wow in one day this grew pretty big)

For goodness sake, you simply refuse to listen to me Airiph. We keep going over the same old ground: we've had this discussion over a multitude of different pages, and you've consistently failed to come up with anything that would justify the high elves' existence as a playable race, though you refuse to acknowlege reasonable argument. Your arguments amaze me - and you repeat them time and time again, immovable as a rock, as though the many reasons arrayed against them do not exist. Would you like me to list my points again for you, or will you just dismiss them?

I'm sorry to take such an offensive attitude, but knowing students much in the same vein as you it consistently irritates me when they fail to listen to, process and take in information. I - we, rather - have given you more than enough to work with on "why they are unlikely" and I'd like you to thoroughly look over that information before you reply to this message. --V - Talk / Spam

Unlikely does not mean impossible. This was actually arrayed by the draenei, nobody thought eredars would be playable, and yet blizzard made new lore to fit them in properly.--Gurluas 04:45, 24 September 2007 (UTC)

Fine, here's some reasons.

1. They're identical to blood elves. Not similar, IDENTICAL. They are the exact same race. Blood elves are merely a distinct faction of high elves, much like the Defias are a faction of humans and the Darkspear Tribe is a faction of jungle trolls. Adding high elves as a playable race would be like adding the Defias Brotherhood to the Horde, or the Gurubashi Tribe to the Alliance.

2. The numbers that have been endlessly quoted regarding the number of high elves were accurate around the time of Warcraft 3/Frozen Throne. Since then, a majority of them have gone over to the blood elves. The number of true high elves - those who refuse to use demonic magics to sate their addiction and live with the pain of arcane withdrawal - is quite small, and rapidly dwindling as more and more decide that Kael'thas had the right idea.

3. Blizzard reps have on multiple occasions come right out and said in no uncertain terms that they will not be a playable race.

Face it - The only form of playable high elves we'll ever get is in the form they're in now. -- Dark T Zeratul 05:06, 24 September 2007 (UTC)

1. Wrong they are not identical, Blood elves have changed alot from the old noble High Elves...they are no longer the same race...not only culturally but also biologically.

2. Many high elves were discovered in outland, still a great group cling to the old ideas, and now that the outland is rediscovered, high elves are pilgriming to allerian stronghold or to stormwind to make a stand, in time, they could become powerful enough to found a new land, also many of them utterly hate Kael'thas and his blood elf ideas, they would never join him.

3. Blizzard changed their mind on many occasions... who would have thought Archimonde became playable?

You cannot foresee what blizzard does... face it, the chance is there, and its much larger than "Centaur" forexample.--Gurluas 05:13, 24 September 2007 (UTC)

1. "High elves and blood elves are physiologically the same race..." From the Encyclopedia on the WoW site (High Elves and Blood Elves).

2. "Prince Kael'thas returned home and rallied all the survivors he could find: approximately 90% of the surviving high elves." "Even today, though, a high elf might still succumb to that addiction and become one of the blood elves." Also from the Encyclopedia (High Elves).

3. Archimonde is NOT playable, and neither are eredar. Draenei and eredar were once the same race, true, but this has not been the case for a very long time. The eredar are the result of Sargeras's corruption of their race, and unlike blood elves and high elves, eredar ARE biologically different from draenei. In fact, I find great amusement in the fact that while you are continually trying to say that high elves and blood elves are racially different despite Blizzard saying they're not, you're also saying that draenei and eredar are racially the same, despite Blizzard, again, saying they're not. -- Dark T Zeratul 05:54, 24 September 2007 (UTC)

1. This has clearly changed now, and you can see more and more how different blood elves are becommming.

2. That is a very rare occasion, because all the remaining high elves have become a community devoted to fight their addiction, they would never side with kael, with the exception of weakminded individuals.

3. They are just as racially different, as blood elves are from high elves, the eredars are corrupt, the blood elves are corrupt, but on a smaller scale since the blood elf corruption just started. Also before the whole eredar thing, Draenei were the ones now known as lost ones, blizzard invented all the new lore to make you play as what other people sees as "eredars"--Gurluas 05:59, 24 September 2007 (UTC)

Personally, I'm kinda supportive of Blizzard introducing High Elves into WoW... but I doubt it'll happen. It's cause High Elves is to Blood Elves are similar to Draenei is to Broken. Even though there are differences, the similarities are too much to introduce them as a new race. Sides, players will start criticising Blizzard for having lack of creativity this way and I really don't want that to happen. On the other hand, I do wanna see some High Elf involvement in the lore and especially their conclusion... Hopefully in a future novel.--Brashxon 08:41, 24 September 2007 (UTC)

I would like to play as them main because they are my favorite race, and could give roleplaying a real kick, with two very similar races, yet worlds apart in lore, and you would have to be careful about who you target, now if an alliance spots a blood elf, they kill him/her despite them wearing blue or anything...this would never happend if high elves were introduced... at least not immediately and on non pvp realms. Plus blizzard could give high elfs, new hairstyles, new skins, and maybe a new set of special high elf clothes, making them very different from blood elves.--Gurluas 08:45, 24 September 2007 (UTC)

Well, first thing they'd have to do in order to head more to the direction of making them playable is giving high elves their own models. I'd suggest something retro, going closer to the art design from warcraft II and reign of chaos. Something along the lines of updating the old high elf graphics in WoW to higher poly count, and improved animation. They'd also need to have their own unique animaton and voice overs, something different than blood elves to differentiate them further. Now if Blizzard was to do this in-game it still wouldn't be a sure reason for making them playable. But it would allow them to be more "different".Baggins 08:49, 24 September 2007 (UTC)

i still think they should be based on the current model, with less threathening faces, and no spiky hair for males, and beards for males etc. there are many possibilities.

Also high elves npcs have a unique soundset, they have the same quotes as night elves but different voices.--Gurluas 09:00, 24 September 2007 (UTC)

About the recent edit, he asks the horde for help against Theramore, and Theramore is an alliance bastion.--Gurluas 09:10, 24 September 2007 (UTC)

He only wants help against Theramore, and no one else. If you go up to him with an alliance character he's just a neutral steamwheedle character. He becomes friendly, honored, revered, etc with Alliance characters as you earn steamwheedle rep. He's what Blizzard calls an Independent, or non-alligned.Baggins 09:13, 24 September 2007 (UTC)

He still asks for Horde help to attack an alliance city, he could be persuaded to join the horde in the long run.--Gurluas 09:15, 24 September 2007 (UTC)

First off we go with current mechanics and lore, "not what-ifs". He's neutral, independent member of the steamwheedle cartel, so despite the fact he gives a horde quest is irrelevent. Blizzard isn't likely to rip him off the steamwheedles there since Horde need to get steamwheedle rep as much as alliance do. Plus he's such a minor character blizzard probalby wouldn't do anything with him. Plus since the majority of the race is already members of the Alliance. One independent isn't going to influence much at all.Baggins 09:19, 24 September 2007 (UTC)

"Also high elves npcs have a unique soundset, they have the same quotes as night elves but different voices."

Nah their are night elves that use the same voices.Baggins 09:19, 24 September 2007 (UTC)

Oh... really? i have never seen them... all night elves seems to have a different voice than high elves...--Gurluas 09:21, 24 September 2007 (UTC)

Yes, different night elves have different voice files, so it depends on the character. Some use the same sounds as the high elves, others don't. You just have to find the right ones.Baggins 09:25, 24 September 2007 (UTC)

Regardless, making new voices for them is easy.--Gurluas 09:26, 24 September 2007 (UTC)

They don't even need to make new voices for them, they could have utilized WCII and III voice files. There is more than enough content from both games. Infact they should have used hero voice files from the previous games for certain hero characters that don't currently have unique voices in-game.Baggins 09:27, 24 September 2007 (UTC)

Wc3 had no real high elf voices, only Sylvanas, the Sorceress and the Priest, i think Wc2 is better.--Gurluas 09:29, 24 September 2007 (UTC)

There were high elf voices for the "priests", and "sorceress" in Warcraft III. some of it could be utilized. To be fair Warcraft II only had voices for the archers/rangers, and Alleria. Very few high elf voice content, Warcraft III had more high elf voice content than WC2 :p...Baggins 09:32, 24 September 2007 (UTC)

Then i think its best to create new ones, beside they only recycled few npc voices from wc3, forexample the blood elves all got new voices.--Gurluas 09:33, 24 September 2007 (UTC)

I have removed the high elves section, as there appears to have been no consensus here, and the entire section was badly written. In addition, it would be just lovely if some of you actually read the introduction to the article. Kirkburn talk contr 13:59, 24 September 2007 (UTC)

What? why? :( and what are you talking about? we came to the conclusion it could be there, and we were talking details. --Gurluas 14:04, 24 September 2007 (UTC)

This link - [1] - read it. Kirkburn talk contr 14:08, 24 September 2007 (UTC)

I still think high elves can be made different enough to be playable, and thats what we were discussing, like beards for males, and waist long hair for females...--Gurluas 14:11, 24 September 2007 (UTC)

I think you mistake discussing high elves in WoW in general for actual agreement with them being added as a playable race. Did you just ignore the people disagreeing with you? Kirkburn talk contr 14:16, 24 September 2007 (UTC)

What do you mean? both me and the other guy misproved many of the so called anti-high elf people. --Gurluas 14:33, 24 September 2007 (UTC)

So-called "anti-high elf people"? Well, I'm glad we're speaking rationally here ... You didn't "disprove" them, you disagreed with them. There's a difference. Kirkburn talk contr 14:27, 24 September 2007 (UTC)

I did sort of disprove their theories by comming with counter-theories, like the whole too similar thing, or the population, i worked so hard on that :( --Gurluas 14:29, 24 September 2007 (UTC)

You don't win an argument just by creating a counter-argument. I think you should have a look at the message I posted up there too, Gurluas. --V - Talk / Spam

What message? at least i did my best...sigh--Gurluas 14:33, 24 September 2007 (UTC)

This user roleplays as a high elf.

See, that's part of the problem - you are rather attached to high elves, instead of looking at it from a detached PoV. High elves have a tiny population and are almost identical to blood elves. How, exactly, can Blizzard make a viable race from that, given what is said in the introduction paragraph I linked? I do not deny that it would be an interesting prospect, but it is an incredibly unlikely one. Kirkburn talk contr 14:41, 24 September 2007 (UTC)

The tiny population aint so tiny , at least not now that the outland farstriders have been rediscovered, also in northrend Dalaran will also have some high elves, as for the resemblance to blood elves, it will only advance roleplay, and they are not identical. And as i said earlier: Unlikely does not mean impossible.--Gurluas 14:44, 24 September 2007 (UTC)

What Outland Farstriders? I can only count one, Taela Everstride. The population Dalaran doesn't help, as it will obviously be "used up" by the coming expansion. Can you explain to me how you could tell blood elves and high elves are different from 10 paces if they were wearing similar clothes? Kirkburn talk contr 15:10, 24 September 2007 (UTC)

Blood elves have a much darker skin tone, and glowing green eyes, and in come cases black hair though high elves with black hair aint unheard off. High elves have a paler skin, often blue eyes, and a blond hair, they also look friendlier. And the whole allerian stronghold consist of many npcs named "High Elf Ranger" thoose are all farstriders, and what do you mean with Dalaran used up? it has always been a place where many high elves resided and resides.--Gurluas 15:15, 24 September 2007 (UTC)--Gurluas 15:15, 24 September 2007 (UTC)

Blood elves have a paler skin tone, and he means if there are high elves in Dalaran they will be in Dalaran and that there is no other knowen or likely unknowen population. Zakolj 15:23, 24 September 2007 (UTC)

Blood elves aint having a paler, they have a darker almost red skin in comparison to the beautiful high elves. some have a ligther skin tone though...--Gurluas 15:46, 24 September 2007 (UTC)--Gurluas 15:46, 24 September 2007 (UTC)

In the Blood elf article see Physical appearance section here is a quote However, her hair and skin are much paler than that of a high elf Zakolj 15:38, 24 September 2007 (UTC)

Must be a mistake, i can illustrate--Gurluas 15:47, 24 September 2007 (UTC)

Or that it shows us that blood elves have a range of skin tones. So, in order to tell any blood elves apart from high elves, you'd have to see the colour of their eyes (and even that isn't reliable) and whether they're smiling at you ...

The Allerian Stronghold isn't that large, and is not all high elves. If Dalaran is moving to Northrend, and the inhabitants left aren't playable in this expansion, how could they become playable in another? Some random mass exodus despite them fighting a war in Northrend? Kirkburn talk contr 15:58, 24 September 2007 (UTC)

I think at the end three playable elven races aren't going to happen, I mean Wildhammer dwarves and Forest trolls are more likely, and pale skin tone and population talk should be in the Talk:High elf page. Zakolj 16:07, 24 September 2007 (UTC)

I still say a playable high elf race can come, and the chance lorewise and roleplaywise is greater than forest troll or wildhammer dwarf.--Gurluas 16:19, 24 September 2007 (UTC)

All lore is sayins is that the palest of the blood elves are even paler than even the high elves, and other blood elves have turned ruddier than high elves. Essentially the early reliance and feeding on fel and other sources of arcane magic has affected individual blood elves in different ways. Even some blood elves have the same skin tone as high elves in game. The skin color range is actually probably one of the most difficult ways to tell their differences in-game, because for some individuals its negligible. Its alot easier to tell by voice and eyes usually.--Baggins 17:16, 24 September 2007 (UTC)

Tuskarr, old and incorrect information

Listed as a negative in the tuskarr section: "Unlikely to appear even as a non-playable race in any expansion after Wrath of the Lich King."

If you've read up on WotLK you know that tuskarr will appear as a non-playable race. And have their own questhub, possibly faction. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Ohls (talk · contr).

"...after Wrath of the Lich King". I think the line is suppose to mean that the Tuskarr have no relevance to future expansions after this upcoming one. -- Raze 05:31, 24 September 2007 (UTC)

Unless we learn about the barren continent of Southartica, :p.Baggins 05:36, 24 September 2007 (UTC)

Which is rather improbable, because e already have Kezan and maybe Pandaria around there. Not to mention the climate is warmer to the south than the north, at least from what I've heard. I believe however that the tuskarr may appear in expansions set after WotLK, but not in a very large numbers. Indeed, the Broken had a time to shine in TBC, but that doesn't mean you only will find them in TBC related stuff. But for either of them being playable is, in my opinion, almost minimal, seeing that neither broken or tuskarr has gotten playable in their relative expansions. --Kulsprutejojjo 07:56, 25 September 2007 (UTC)

Kezan isn't in that far into the southern part of the world, its almost directly west of southern Kalimdor. Pandaria is still a large unknown, but there is no indication of it being in the southern seas. Nothing has really shown us what lies below Kezan, or the other side of the world. Not even the globes laying around the world are that useful. Still I doubt they'll establish anything major in those regions. While you can't tell in game in published information, and shown in earlier warcraft games there is information about lands having natural weather patterns, going through the four seasons. Baggins 03:35, 26 September 2007 (UTC)

Well, of course the seasons don't change in WoW, and many zones have their reasons, but that is mostly because of the climate of the zones. Indeed, hyou never see snow in Tanaris, for example, while Dun Morogh has lots of snow. I believe the Northrend climate is that of Northern Europe or Canada and Alaska. Many pines, rather cold environment, snow common during the winters. But the seasons don't change in WoW of a simple reason; it would take a lot of time to Blizzard. However, we do have proof that the seasons DO change in the Warcraft world. It makes clear in the Warcraft 3 human and undead campaigns, where Arthas begins his journey in spring or summer, but returns during autumn, invades Quel'Thalas, returns again, and Lordaeron is in winter. That means Lordaeron went thrugh three seasons during the whole 2 first original WC3 campaigns. But enough of that. As I said, we still haven't heard of any "Southtarctica" or "Southrend" or whatever you called it, so we still can only speculate about the possibilty of such a continent. And as for The Great Sea, it does not just contain Kezan and Pandaria, and I seriously believe they will be in a Great Sea expansion rather than their own expansion. Indeed, Kezan lies in the Great Sea already, and I do believe Pandaria does too. --Kulsprutejojjo 06:58, 26 September 2007 (UTC)

This is the extent of the South Seas as far as we've been shown, according to Lands of Mystery, South Seas section. It includes the Maelstrom, Kezan, Zandalar, Plunder Isle, Tel Abim, and the Broken Isles. Another map showed us two additional islands formerly known as Island of Doctor Lapidis and Gillijim's Isle. As for the location of the Pandaren, we can only speculate, its direction has never been hinted at. Although, we have been given hints to where Pandaren's used to live (northwest Kalimdor, IIRC), and where they set up a colony, in western Kalimdor. Since they set up a colony in the west, it might suggest to Pandaria being in the west or northwest, somewhere, for them to making landing there.

Now strangly, if you look at the globes in game you can see a handful of islands to west of Kalimdor and east of Eastern Kingdoms in the ocean that lies between those areas(Kalimdor and the Eastern Kingdoms are shown to exist on the same hemisphere of the world). Surprisingly one of these islands is shown to be on the "south pole", and looks to be fairly large. Though obviously not Northrend in size (see left side picture).Baggins 07:10, 26 September 2007 (UTC)

Indeed, that is interesting... Never noticed that until now... Anyhow, we don't know anything more about these lands than that they already are there. But the possibility that one of these islands is Pandaria is just as high as it would be in the Great Sea. After all, we don't know it's location at all. We just know it exixts, and that it's the pandaren homeland. --Kulsprutejojjo 11:18, 26 September 2007 (UTC)

Why are you all arguing over where the Tuskarr would start... obviously they cant start at level 1 on Northrend but Blizzard can always just add a small island nearby, thats what they did with the Draenei... --Kooper127

Oho sick idea... Mammoth mounts... like hairy versions of elephants.. with the 4 ellek tusks... or maybe they could have walrus like tusks... like half mammoth half walrus mounts... dono wut the epic versions would be but... tuskarr own... walrus people with penguin pets... mammoth-walrus mounts would just complete them... Kooper127 23:08, 25 October 2007 (UTC)

Shovelhorns are my bet for a mount of some kind (yes, a red link, I know - I came across them in the Howling Fjord however). A bit like elekks, but with a giant shovel-shaped horn at the front. Kirkburn  talk  contr 23:34, 25 October 2007 (UTC)

Ogres, Again

Do not lie to readers by saying the Stonemaul joined out of their own free will. That is complete bullshit. Rexxar killed the previous leader, making him leader by default, thus forcing the Stonemaul into the Horde. The Stonemaul never wanted to join, but they naively listen to their new leader, as they assume he was stronger than their previous. Also, a point involving similarities with at least three races of the Alliance should be bright green. There is significant evidence throughout the series proving the ogres' enmity towards orcs, as well as draenei's, night elves' and humans' enmity towards orcs. Garm 21:45, 26 September 2007 (UTC)

Wow, accusing people of "lying" is pretty strong, and I don't think such an assertion is really supported by the article Stonemaul. Kirkburn talk contr 22:25, 26 September 2007 (UTC)

People who have played the Orc campaign in the Frozen Throne know the Stonemaul were practically forced to join the Horde by Rexxar, as they were against it until Rexxar killed their previous leader. It is a blatant lie to say the Stonemaul joined out of free will, as the campaign says otherwise. Garm 22:53, 26 September 2007 (UTC)

Comparing one race to two or more other races is not compelling enough evidence to support the bright green for any article, unless Blizzard does themselves to make some specific point. For fans to do it they could take the time to take any race including ones already playable and making compelling arguements as to why those races should join either side. I.e. someone could argue for why the tauren or orcs should be allies of the Alliance as opposed to the Horde. But in the end its just fan speculation and arguementation, which does not have any basis in facts, but opinions. We try not to let it pass in other sections of the article it shouldn't be allowed in ogre section either for consistency. If it has sneaked by in other sections they should be demoted to appropriate speculation markings.Baggins 23:05, 26 September 2007 (UTC)

Additionally disgust of one "faction" doesn't automatically make them potential members of the other. As established in WoW and the RPG, it can lead to them being only partially aligned to one or the other, neutral to both, or independent of both, and/or enemies of both. So its not exactly compelling nor is it evidence of being bright green +, and arguebly even a dark green +.23:15, 26 September 2007 (UTC)

As for the stonemaul clan there is more behind the story than was told in The Frozen Throne;

In fact their previous leader the one Rexxar killed was a tyrannical leader and found the ancient orcish axe Serathil and used it to control the clan. Rexxar sensed the corruption in Kor'gall and slew him freeing the rest of the clan from his tyrannical ways, they respected him for his help freeing them from such a bad leader. After Rexxar left, Mok'Morokk took over and broke many of the tribes tenets, angering the clan, and then attempted to subvert the tribes lawful ways. Mok'Morokk ruled unquestioned until an unknown challenger drove him out. Draz'Zilb now runs the clan from the shadows, and the clan seeks a new leader, and they have renewed their ties to the Horde of their own free will. It is believed that the aging ogre Tharg is the most likely candidate to become the next leader.^{HPG 156}

It sounds like you were trying to make Rexxar out to sound like an evil sinister force who was trying to tyranically take over the stonemaul, when infact he actually freed them, and allowed them to return to their old ways.

Also, its been stated in HPG, and elsewhere, that according to Stonemaul tradition leaders are chosen either through an old chieftain's wish, or by a trial of rights, in that a challenger, usually a member, or someone who had earned membership in the tribe, has the right to challenge a chief, often to the death, to become the new ruler, so Rexxar was following the clans traditions when he killed the much disliked Kor'gall, thus earning their respect.

Most ogres are savage and evil, as unruly as any forest troll. However, the Stonemaul clan defies this mold, and exists in a lawful and semi-democratic society. They perform trials to decide anything from a new leader to going to war, and have willingly joined the Horde. The hero Rexxar is technically the leader of the Stonemaul ogres, but after his disappearance, the ogre Mok’Morokk led the clan. Mok’Morokk was a despot who lost their village to Onyxia and her brood. Mok’Morokk was quickly driven out or killed; no one knows his fate. The clan currently has no leader.^{HPG 157}

You, know you really should be carefuly about calling people liars, especially when Blizzard states it themselves.Baggins 22:59, 28 September 2007 (UTC)

Well, playing the mission again... Rexxar is being rough, really, to the Ogres. Maybe it's been retconned, but on the spot he appears like any other tyrannical chieftain, except for the fact that we know he does it for the good of both the Stonemaul Clan and the Horde.--K ) (talk) 14:33, 29 September 2007 (UTC)

Perhaps it is retconned. Rexxar isn't necessarily tyrannical, but he's rough to the Ogres of the Stonemaul clan, probably for their own good. Garm 14:49, 29 September 2007 (UTC)

How else could one rule over an ogre tribe? --V - Talk / Spam

Races for adding

Let's add on races that could be playable. Not everything on that list is possible, but we can be certain that the list allows for good imaginations.

Hopefully the admins might approve some of these. ^.^ Garm 19:13, 29 September 2007 (UTC)

Pit Lords

Every other demonic race is on there... why not pit lords? Garm 19:13, 29 September 2007 (UTC)

Massive, way too powerful. Kirkburn talk contr 19:34, 29 September 2007 (UTC)

You ever hear the term "Size doesn't matter"? Garm 19:39, 29 September 2007 (UTC)

It does in WoW. How do you fit them through doorways? Kirkburn talk contr 19:41, 29 September 2007 (UTC)

Nathrezim are tall, Drakonids are tall, Tauren are tall, Ogres are all, and Magnataurs are tall. What are you trying to imply? Also, Varimathras is excessively taller than any tauren, yet he could fit through if he wanted to. Garm 19:43, 29 September 2007 (UTC)

Garm, do you know how big a pit lord is? --Piu ^(?!) 19:56, 29 September 2007 (UTC)

Very. I've played WarCraft 3. Garm 19:57, 29 September 2007 (UTC)

Just enlarging your character through some of the stuff like furbolg rage potions can make certain player character races have difficulty entering certain doorways in game, already. Its an in-game physics thing.Baggins 19:44, 29 September 2007 (UTC)

Varimathras is excessively taller than any tauren, and he could "fit" through doorways. What are you trying to imply? Garm 19:47, 29 September 2007 (UTC)

Look I have no idea why blizzard gives player characters different game mechanics than NPCs. But in-game if a player somehow gets larger than a passage or doorway they can't go through it. NPC characters like bosses on the contrary often have odd ability of chasing someone throughout a level, despite being taller than all the doorways. Graphically they kind of just walk through the walls.Baggins 19:53, 29 September 2007 (UTC)

Ogres are not all massive, tauren is a stupid comparison, and drakonids are not all tall. Pit lords however are all severly huge. Anyway, what say you about their incredible power? Kirkburn talk contr 19:55, 29 September 2007 (UTC)

Pit lords would permit an "OVER 9000" references. That, and Pit Lords in WarCraft 3: The Frozen Throne weren't excessively powerful. Speaking of which, aren't they normally neutral heroes that both Alliance and Horde could get? Garm 19:57, 29 September 2007 (UTC)

Testing... testing... Garm 16:51, 30 September 2007 (UTC)

Kirkburn,shall I delete it,there bigger than giants?- Airiph/T/C/B 17:02, 30 September 2007 (UTC)

Also look at this picture-