- Past discussions archived to...
- ...Talk:Shaman builds/Archive01 Archived 09:04, 22 December 2007 (UTC)
Can some changes be made to the enhancement info, and the builds? It's outdated. It was outdated pre-2.3 but now things really do need to be updated. I'm a new user so I'm unsure if I'm allowed to do that; and I certainly don't want to delete other users content. But right from the opening "easy to spend 50 points" part, it's wrong. Anyone, guidance or input? Is it safe to redo that section? --SarcagiSaragi 16:07, 24 December 2007 (MST)
- It's nice you're so careful, but don't worry, there's no seniority rights here. Read the policies, try to be constructive, but what other people wrote isn't sacrosanct - feel free to delete anything if it's wrong or old. Maybe it's best to start out with a few smaller edits, just to see how people react. But what's wrong about spending 50 points in Enh? --Batox 17:55, 27 December 2007 (UTC)
Enhancement as a whole is a good build, but for pvp, raiding, instancing (such as it is at level 70), you really won't find a consolidated use for that many points. For raiding and for 5 mans it's helpful too, to get the "nature's guidance" talent...dual wielding leads to a pretty high miss chance; and that reduces necessary +hit items. Obviously theres a ratio to how much you need crit/ap wise too; too many low hits won't help as much as a few high hits. Even so, 9%from talents as well as 100-150 hit rating is pretty common. a 43/45 point enh build with the rest stuck in resto is pretty accepted. Even so, theres a lot of talents in there that simply aren't that useful. Shield specialization and Ancestral knowledge. Shield spec is nice; but..neither of those screams to the other specs "take me!" Equally points in imp: ghost wolf aren't very well spent, you don't need it. Unless you're flag running in a wsg premade, but theres better classes for such things. Toughness, and anticipation equally have reduced roles. 50 points is over kill. You're trying to do too many roles as such, and limiting your effectiveness too much. --SarcagiSaragi 18:34:43, December 29, 2007 (UTC)
- I thought that 0/49/0 wouldn't be a horribly wrong method to put a lot of points in Enh (for solo/PvP), but I see what you mean. Feel free to edit away, and just delete that sentence :). --Batox 15:42, 30 December 2007 (UTC)
== This page is in a terrible state atm, it's full of "personalized" and redundant builds. I'm unhappy about a lot of the edits which have taken place since my last visit. I hope I'll find time during the holidays to do something about it.--Batox 09:07, 22 December 2007 (UTC)
- I hope the NPOV and Terrible comments are now history :) --Batox 16:08, 16 January 2008 (UTC)
Resto PVP Builds Edit
Seriously, maybe there's something I'm missing here, but the bare minimum build posted here is pretty garbage. Why would you need hit rating, and why wouldn't you need mana tide? I mean, you could spec into something that's practically capped for pvp anyway to do DPS that you shouldn't be doing or you could have a free mana pot every 5 minutes for your team and 50mp5 in between if you don't need poison cleasing. Hmmmms.
[8/7/46] is the build I currently use. It combines great mana efficiency for spamming earth shock on casters and frost shock on fleeing targets. Also, with the improved guardian totems and the gladiator set bonus, you can net yourself a 11.5s grounding totem cd.
[8/0/53] is another common build I've seen around. Healing way looks worthless for pvp, since you'll be casting LHW for the majority of your heals. However, the stacking magic buff can help to avoid dispells on your shields and blood lust. Spam rank 1 HW on yourself before the match to get a full stack, then reapply as needed throughout the match when you can spare the GCD. The buff lasts 15 seconds and a one second cast refreshes the stack for only 25 mana.
Nimrodfunk 18:58, 29 January 2008 (UTC)
Elemental Raiding Edit
Hybrid biases (OMG YOU HAVE TO BE RESTO BECAUSE YOU CAN HEAL) aside, I think we need a place to discuss raiding builds. For example, I take issue with the leaving-out of Storm's Reach in elemental by the builds already on the page. You can sacrifice 2% crit for the ability to stand at ranges equivalent to mages and hunters. Qii 20:23, 8 February 2008 (UTC)
The listed information for Thunderstorm is incorrect: you do not need to be within 12 yards of the target to cast it. Indeed, you do not need a target at all. Also, it now returns 8% of total mana, not 5% -- a significant improvement. This makes it more likely to be worth working into a rotation, especially for players wanting to trade in a few points of mp5 for extra DPS. --Snappydude 13:13, 3 December 2008.
I've added my 2 Elemental specs, with what I think are decent explainations, to the Elemental Raiding section mainly to give people alternate specs to look at. --Charybrown 19:30, 26 December 2008 (UTC)
Hybrid Builds Edit
Even though it's hard to give one without it being personalized, should it be touched on? I mean as the most versatile class in the game a "Jack of all trade", the Swiss Army Knife of groups, shouldn't their be something? Rannulf 03:58, 3 March 2008 (UTC)
PvE Resto Builds Edit
The PvE Resto Build listed substitutes the best resto talent for longevity, (one of the most important factors in raiding) Tidal Focus, for a PvP talent, Nature's Guardian. Except in extreme circumstances, a healer should not be near death very often if at all in a serious raid, making Nature's Guardian effectively useless.
A good PvE resto build would look something like this, with the option of putting the 2 points in improved reincarnation (Really helpful when learning new fights for saving runbacks, or being available more often if you go down late in a boss fight) or in Healing grace (if aggro is frequently an issue). I will post this build and the above points in the article. --Mhig9000 18:32, 3 March 2008 (UTC)
Enhancement Revamp Edit
I am going to change the enhancement builds. They are not very good. Elemental Devastation builds are not great unless heavily geared and even then you need to cap +hit on melee through gear then. The other "0-32-0" isn't well done either.
New recommendation for 0-30-0 build will be http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=hZxV0zE0sVz
I will come up with a progression to arrive at that talent expenditure later
- Me again, I got to fix that enhancement build... damn the 5 man one is just beyond stupid. 15:44, 1 April 2008 (UTC)
What's up with the latest Enhancement PVP builds? They needed updating for 2.4 but I don't get the ones that are posted. They're dropping all the hit talents even in the enh/resto? And does anyone really PVP as enh/elem? I went looking at the talents of every shaman I could find holding S3 axes and they're all enh/resto with a full 9% +hit, 2/2 Imp GW, and 4/5 or 5/5 Toughness. (5/5 Toughness usually means 4/5 Unleashed Rage.) Takiya 04:21, 8 April 2008 (UTC) Update: 29 June 2008 No response so I'm just going to change it. Can't find any well-rated shaman that thinks Nature's Guidance is skippable, period, and I agree. The elemental devastation spec should really be deleted for the same reason, it's losing more damage dropping hit talents than it can possibly recover. But I know someone's just going to think it was "forgotten" so I'll leave it for those who can't stand the thought of a few resto talents.
Elemental as a leveling spec Edit
I disagree that Elemental is a poor leveling spec before level 40. I find it to be as effective as Enhancement from 10 to 30, as it benefits from some key early talents like Concussion and Elemental Focus. Yes, mana efficiency does become a problem, but not until about level 30. Between 30 and 40 can be tough due to mana inefficiency, but judicious selection of quests (i.e. avoid fighting too many yellow and orange mobs) and occasional drinking can make it tolerable.
Overall, I think it would be better to approach the talent trees from the perspective of suggesting how to make them work, rather than telling people to avoid them.
Leveling Builts Edit
The Current page seems to focus on Endgame Shaman Builts. It would be great for a class newbie like me, who does not know every single talent and does not want to bother a lot to get some ready made ideas for Talents specs. E.g. 1-39 take this - 40 respec to that - to 70 go this way. Essmene (talk) 16:12, 27 May 2008 (UTC)
Enhancement Vs. Elemental Edit
This page is flawed in several ways -- first of all, enhancement is not any more viable than enhancement for leveling pre-40. If anything, elemental is vastly better because enhancement shamans cannot dual-wield until 40, and their DPS output is 100% gear based -- elemental shamans can pump out much higher numbers with sub-par gear, making leveling easier. These properties also apply to endgame raiding -- enhancement shamans will have a much harder time topping DPS meters in BT and onwards than elemental shamans, simply because of the gear-dependancy of melee classes. Finally, under the description of elemental shamans, the page states that elemental DPSers are often passed up by mages and warlocks. While well-geared and intelligent warlocks can compete with equally geared elemental shamans for top spots on the meters, they by no means easily surpass them. I have come across few mages who can compete with equally geared elemental shamans. And the page plays down the value of elemental shamans to a raid group -- totem of wrath, wrath of air totem, and mana spring totem combined with bloodlust and a massive DPS output make elemental shamans quite valuable in endgame raids. In many endgame fights, elemental shamans are more viable than enhancement shamans, simply because so much of the encounters heavily favor ranged DPSers.
Automated transfer of Problem Report #12795 Edit
The following message was left by Tielc via PR #12795 on 2008-08-11 19:56:37 UTC
All of the specs for Elemental Shamans listed on this page have 4/5 points invested into Reverberation and completely skipping Elemental Warding. Elemental Warding is very valuable where an Elemental Shaman should not be casting Shocks in most cases.
Out with the old, in with the new Edit
I cleared out the old junk since it was all outdated. There's a link to it in case anyone wants to reference it, but with all the WotLK changes and the page having already been outdated prior to the 3.0.2 patch, it should start from scratch wherever possible. I left the structure in because it seemed like a pretty useful one to me (better than many of the other classes anyway). WoWWiki-Taz (talk) 18:43, 19 October 2008 (UTC)
Updated with new information Edit
07:54, 6 December 2008 Swiftmatt Edit
anyone else see that in this edit Swiftmatt deleted most of the leveling guild for the resto shaman? all that is left is the 70 to 79 part and the level 80 part. I am still sort of new but you have to ask before doing an edit that big right? Also it was a leveling guild so people that are just starting to level a shaman might want to have an idea of what they are doing so should that get re-posted or how does this work? Totemcozy (talk) 18:22, 6 December 2008 (UTC)
Removing all that from resto shaman leveling build is vandalism Edit
please put it back and I'll edit it, im at level 79 now with my resto shaman, and have another way to make a resto build from around 60 to 80
more viable PVE Resto Builds Edit
The PVE resto section should have a list of viable restoration builds, not simply one build that one contributor thinks is the best.
These builds include, but are not limited to:
The build currently listed in the article is perhaps not the best, and builds really do depend on play style.
- ElitistJerks Resto topic from 2009-07 for reference when updating resto section:  -- ScratchMonkey (talk) 04:34, 26 July 2009 (UTC)
Enhancement in General Edit
The enhancement builds link are a little off. If you are enhancement doing a raid you should not take damage outside of aoe damage, and same with heroics.
The following is superior for damage then the suggested: 
You don't need damage reducing or mana reducing talents. If you find yourself taking damage or low on mana you have shamanistic rage, get your mana back and reduce damage taken.
Take 10% on fire totems since after one of the recent patches the searing totems should have more appropriate spell damage so drop: Windfury, Strength of Earth, Mana spring, and Searing totems.
Now in regards to other questions on enhancement.
I feel that enhancement is prefered for leveling because shamans have a disadvantage as casters. Sure no dual wield till later but thats not what you need to worry about. Shamanistic focus and flurry are BIG deals for a leveling shaman, also melee that can heal is easier to level because you don't always have to wait on mana.
I used a one hander and a shield all the way up to 40 leveling purely as enhancement. Elemental may seem easier but it depends on level and where you level, but also remember elementals don't get reduce to pushback until 20 something when enhancements are getting flurry. All in all it's a matter of preference, just remember that no matter what spec you are you can cast (almost) all the same spells
Links outdated Edit
When I click on the link for the Enhancement (11/60/0) level 80 build, it comes up (11/50/0) level 70. I know everyone has opinions on the best build, but can't it just be updated so it looks good?
I think all talent builds for all classes should have categories for Arenas, Battlegrounds, Heroics, Levelling, Raiding, Pre-Raiding. -- Anonymous
I agree with the above sentence to a degree. I find it awkward that the builds are split by role, but inconsistent in their approach (and then there is a whole section on raiding). I propose that we rework the page to have the following layout:
- Leveling/Solo PvE
- Group PvE (There may be some distinctions between 5/10/25 man group pve, but I think they can all be covered internally in this section.)
- PVP (Again, distinctions between BG and Arena PVP can be made internally to this section.)
- Hybrid (Are there any?)
I'll look at making the change mid-late next week if there are no comments.