interaction of % heal and + heal
Consider renew which has a talent that improves the healing by 15%.
If I have 100 plus heal gear do I get an extra 115 or 100? I assume 100 but I'd like to see that confirmed and included in the page.
Update: I've tested this with a low level priest
- Wearing +46 healing gear with 15% talent got 151 Rejuvs with Rejuv 2 (+36)
- 36 / 45 = 78.2% efficiency (21.7% reduction)
- Level 14 Rejuv should get a level based penalty of 6*3.5 = 21%
- Conclusion: +15% heal talent does not combo with +heal from items
I've updated the main document to clarify the below point with an example:
Damage benefits are applied before any talents or buffs that may increase your damage by a flat percentile. Healing spells are opposite; all talents are added to the base first then healing benefits added.
+up to vs +flat
Can anyone confirm the line:
"- If you ever see an item which advertises "increases [...] spells and effects by up to 1 to 42," then it still follows the above formula for the top limit. However, each cast of the spell will give you a random benefit between 1 and what would normally be the actual benefit based on casting time."
Initial testing shows otherwise. I'll test further in game and post my results.
Please list the piece(s) of equipment you are testing. The "1 to 42" part is the important part. As I understand it, no such pieces are available anymore. --Tbannister 14:25, 12 June 2006 (EDT)
+healing with healing trinkets / bandages?
Does +healing apply to effects from bandages and trinkets like Lifestone?
Bandages: tested, does not apply.
Ankh of Life, Lifestone: not tested yet. But I'm not hopeful.
In earlier versions, +spell damage and +healing affected trinkets and bandages. I think this was corrected in 1.7, and since then spell damage no longer affects trinkets or item abilities. --Tbannister 13:06, 8 August 2006 (EDT)
+damge and crits?
Does anyone know how +damage effects spell crit damage? Does it get the same increase as the spell (50-100% increase based on talents) or does the crit only increase the spell's base damage?
The crit multiplier, including whatever bonuses from talents that increase the multiplier, is applied after any +damage effects are added. Esselte 05:16, 24 Feb 2006 (EST)
new spell ranks in 1.9
How does the modification for spell ranks adjust now that there are new ranks of spells to be learnt? Example is frostbolt rank 11, would rank 10 now do less damage? EffectiveBonus = 10/11 or about 90% of the previous bonus. You'd think if people noticed a 10% drop in damage there would be some commotion.
Uh, what? There's not a modification based on rank, just for spells learned before level 20. Rank 10 frostbolt works exactly the way it did before.
Lower rank does get full bonus
Lower ranks of heals get full damage from healing. As long as the spells are learned at level 20 or higher. lower ranks of damage spells do not.
Warlock Curse of Doom
I've noticed that the warlock Curse of Doom spell seems to break the 3.5 second rule. While wearing Robe of the Void, for example, the +49 damage seems to be multiplied by some facter as no damage is incurred on the target for 60 seconds. The spell itself is instant cast, but the effect occurring after 60sec seems to do several hundred damage more than 49. I currently wear gear that provides about +225 to shadow spells and my Curse of Doom often procs in excess of 4500 damage despite the fact that 3200 is the normal non-bonus proc. Can anyone provide further clarity on how this works?
Curse of Doom might be able to crit, the mob may be vulnerable to shadow damage, or it could have a curse of shadows or other debuff which increases shadow damage. --Tbannister 13:08, 8 August 2006 (EDT)
I think that a 15 second rule is more accurate in describing the damage bonuses in patch 2.0 beta. Up to patch 1.12, there was a cap that keeps the benefit from going over 100% of spell damage, but in patch 2.0 and The Burning Crusade, this cap will be lifted. According to tests done and posted here, DoTs follow this formula: Benefit = Spell Damage * (DoT duration/15 seconds). This rule accurately describes Curse of Doom as well.
Curse of Doom is a DoT and therefore should not crit. However, it can receive bonuses from shadow weaving, curse of shadow, battle standards, and other damage buffs. --Yvero 11:44, 19 November 2006 (EST)
Shaman Earthshock
I think there's an additional bonus to spell damage supposedly based on intelligence or spirit similiar to attack power bonus for melee. Example: Shaman earthshock rank 7 deals 517 to 545 damage. I've skilled "Concussion" giving me an additional 5% bonus yielding 572 maximum damage. With "Elemental Fury" I increase my spell crit damage to 100%. My earthshock crits should cause maximum 1144 damage. But I do some more damage with crits up to 1400. I don't wear any gear with plus spell damage. There are no debuffs on the mob so far. Has anybody an idea which effect increases my spell damage? I don't complain about it but I just want to understand ;)
Neither int nor spirit increase spell damage (exception: priests with spiritual guidance talent). The mob you are testing on could be vulnerable to nature damage. --Tbannister 14:30, 12 June 2006 (EDT)
Thanx. I agree with you. But is there a chance to count the amount of extra damage on vulnerable mobs? Does this mean the mobs have negative resistances? The extra damage in this earthshock example is about 25%, which could be the next step in absorption of magical damage (here: -25% absorption due to negative nature resistance). Although, for binary spells only the final hit chance could be increased by negative resistances, since no partial absorbtion is possible. An example that could confirm this is the following: Frostmage in MC. I use frostbolts (binary spell) on firelords and gain no additional damage, but it seems that I hit very often. If I use blizzard on them I realize an extra damage of up to 50%. I suppose the firelord is vulnerable to frost spells and has a certain number of negative frost resistance. Can anybody agree with this theory? Morrh 13:36, 13 June 2006 (EST)
True +flat Damage
What if any difference is there between "+32 damage" and "up to +32 damage"?
- See above ( read the rest of the page ) for the answerCJ 04:53, 23 March 2006 (EST)
- That question is not answered though, he isn't asking about the difference between "+32 damage" and "up to 1 to 32". The question remains whether "+32 damage" would add 32 damage with no regard to casting time, which i find very hard to believe but have heard stated. --Spoffomov 03:47, 5 April 2006 (EDT)
- The people who say +32 damage adds +32 damage to all spells are wrong. The only BoE equipment that I can name off the top of my head that has +xx damage is "Abyssal" equipment from Sillithus. Feel free to get some and test it for yourself. --Tbannister 14:24, 12 June 2006 (EDT)
To my knoledge the only "+damage" (not "up to +damage") is Pimgib's Collar which raises Imp Firebolt damage by plain +8. --Drundia 21:09, 3 July 2006 (EDT)
- The flat +damage appear on a very large number of items, they are simply school specific, the "of X wrath" items. The question, I believe (certainly my question) is how does the white effect, "+20 frost spell damage" compare with the green effect "increase damage done by frost spells and effects by up to 20". Does anyone know how exactly, for example, the numbers compare for a drakestone of frozen wrath (+21 frost spell damage and increase damage and healing by magical spell and effects by up to 9) and a tome of the ice lord (increase damage done by frost spells by up to 34)? ETA: poking around, I hear that wrath and sorcery works works the same as "up to", it's just a matter of whether the item description is generated randomly or not. Aidan 03:29, 12 September 2006 (EDT)
- Thott has a nice system for spells... http://www.thottbot.com/?e=Apply%20Aura%3A%20Add%20Flat%20Modifier%20%28Damage%29 according to this there is no other item with a flat modifier, though I have to admit that thott is not always right. Could you provide an item's (full) name or link as an example? -watchout 06:47, 12 September 2006 (EDT)
Mind Flay
Isn't Mind Flay 3 ticks instead of 5 ticks as stated in the page? I've respecced Shadow on the test server, I'll try to get in to confirm but I'm pretty sure that Mind Flay is only 3 ticks and has a lower +damage coeffecient than mentioned.
Yes, the page says you get 3/5 the normal bonus because it only has 3 ticks (plus it has a snare penalty as well). --Tbannister 14:21, 12 June 2006 (EDT)
OTOH The priest communtity typically thinks that mindflay is bugged. It isn't a DoT but rather a channelled spell and so should get 3.0/3.5 = 86% before the stun penalty. As it is it gets 43% which isn't compatable with the 3 tick theory above.
+Dmg/Healing vs Talents
Does +Dmg/Healing occur before applying talents such as +percent dmg/healing or after. E.G. Is the formula (base+gear)*talent bonus or is the formula base*talent bonus + gear.
Experimental evidence indicates that talent modifiers apply to spell damage equipment. --Tbannister 13:11, 8 August 2006 (EDT)
Shaman Chain Lightning +dmg
How does shaman Chain Lightning work with +spell damage? Does the initial blast receive (AdvertisedBenefit * (2.5 / 3.5)) actual benefit, and then the jumps are whatever number you end up dealing to the first target (* 0.7) and (* 0.7^2)?
Magical Spells
Just to be sure, it says "magical spells", does that mean spells of the school of Magic, or all kinds of spells including fire, frost, shadow etc? Shandris 18:36, 13 August 2006 (EDT)
There is no school of magic. "magical spells" refers to all schools of magic (e.g. fire, frost, shadow, arcane, nature, holy)
Bonus to Shaman Totems
What is bonus to shaman totems' spells? --Drundia 23:21, 26 August 2006 (EDT)
- I know for a fact that for Searing Totem, it's 8% of your +dmg per "shot". --Bevans (FeldmanSkitzoid) 19:08, 30 September 2006 (EDT)
Reorganization of this Page
I would like to suggest a reorganization of this page. Please note that all the information on the page is not included here, some would be moved to stub pages listed below.
I would create a stub page for each class so the math can be calculated for each classes individual spells and discussed in detail with any specific exceptions or whatever as listed in some comments on this original page.
I will be most likely doing the two complete pages on Druids and perhaps also Priests for both Healing and Damage spells of those classes.
Please see [Druid Math on WoW Forums] for more information.
Formulas:Plus damage and Plus healing/Druid
Formulas:Plus damage and Plus healing/Priest
Formulas:Plus damage and Plus healing/Mage
Formulas:Plus damage and Plus healing/Paladin
Formulas:Plus damage and Plus healing/Shaman
Formulas:Plus damage and Plus healing/Warlock
etc
Please comment!
--Mynia 18:28, 8 September 2006 (EDT)
Not needed. Spell Damage Comparison. Pzychotix 23:27, 8 September 2006 (EDT)
Uh ok... If you think so. Those just compare the DPS of damage spell only and doesn't explain specifically how the calculations apply to the class' spell. Thats fine for damage if you want but it doesn't compare healing spells. So are you saying I should just clone that category and make one like it for healing comparison?
Also even if we don't make the extra pages I mentioned I think reorganizing this page would make it more clear.
Other comments?
--Mynia 00:50, 11 September 2006 (EDT)
Hold on Mynia, this was a bit too much for a talk page. If you are uncertain, you can put you proposals on a separate page, many tend to use subpages of their userpages for this purpose, like User:Mynia/Dev. I already put your text on Formulas:Plus damage and Plus healing/Rework, because I dont like writing in other's userpages... If you still need to look up what you wrote here - because I maybe forgot to copy something -, see the History tab for a complete history and then you can copy it out of it.
Concerning your rework. In my opinion this article really needs to be reworked, so I'd just go kamikaze. There is a history anyway :)
Another point. Please clarify phrases like "= % Benefit Effective (in decimal format)" in your final version, sounds weird to me
-watchout 10:57, 11 September 2006 (EDT)
Rework complete and posted. I hope everyone likes the changes. *crosses fingers* Next I will work on a healing spell comparison page like the damage one.
--Mynia 13:04, 17 September 2006 (EDT)
Glitches
Some things that I found, and some tips.
- Use subheadings - the more "=" you add, the "lower" the level
- there is some nice work on the formulas you did, but formulas are traditionally monotype, that makes them easier to read - like
Cast Time of Spell / 3.5 = Benefit Effective
- some terms need to be specified, like "Cast Time of Spell" - which is actually the base casttime BEFORE talents or items that reduce it
- Also your "Benefit Effective" is actually a quotient and that opposes the word "effective"
- therefore you will need a "Terms" part, which you already did to some part, but for many terms it is still unclear what their real meaning is if you don't know what they *should* be or compare all formulas (which is hard because they are hard to find - see above :))
- "Portion of Benefit to Regular Part" - you have 2 words in this "name" that say its a part, one should be enough - there are other names having the same problem
- "Note that the cap for this calculation is 100, more ticks than 5 will not give you over 100 benefit. +Healing and +Damage benefit for the spell is divided equally to each tick." actually the cap is 1 or 100%, since it's a relative value - see? its important to specify such things or you will get confused yourself.
-watchout 07:48, 19 September 2006 (EDT)
Thank you for your very useful comments! WoWWiki is new to me so I didn't know about the extra subheadings! I made many of the changes you suggested. One thing though as for the "Terms" I added some notes but the Rules for Applying +Healing and +Damage section covers these also.
Please review again and help me make it even better!
--Mynia 10:08, 20 September 2006 (EDT)
Paladin Seals and Plus Spell Damage
Does anybody know how to calculate the bonus spell damage will give to things like "Seal of Righteousness"?
Sources?
I'm sure these formulas have all been taken from some official source, but it would still be a good idea to include the actual references. Currently this page seems to present a lot of magical factoids.
Burning Crusade changes
Blockquoth Drysc:
In the Burning Crusade, we’ve decided to make a fundamental change to the way spells calculate the bonus they receive from +healing and +spell damage effects and items. This is because we have seen a growing trend in using “downranking” and large amounts of +healing items, which we feel negatively impacts game balance. Downranking involves high-level players using lower level spell ranks and +healing gear to conserve mana, but maintain a high rate of healing done. Through this method, it has become possible in the live game for healing characters to heal large amounts of damage indefinitely without running out of mana. To maintain progression of use through spell ranks, we are changing how lower ranked spells relate to characters of higher level.
Spells will now receive a smaller bonus from +healing and +spell damage based on a comparison of the level at which the spell was learned and the caster’s current level. Take the Priest spell Heal 2 as an example:
The spell is learned at level 22, and the base points for healing on the spell keep increasing until level 27. So, level 27 is considered the spell’s max level in our calculation.
This system gives an additional 6 levels of slack before applying any penalty to casting Heal 2; so, players up to level 33 can cast it with no penalty.
In this example, we will use level 34 (one level past the cast level of the spell) as a starting point.
The bonus from +healing is multiplied by this ratio:
((spell level)+6)/(player level)
That means the level 34 player only gets 97% of the normal bonus from +healing items when casting Heal 2. A level 60 player would only get 55% of the bonus, while a level 70 would get 47%.
The exact same system will also apply to damage spells. However, as healing classes tend to use downranking more often than others, healers are likely to see more effect from this change than other classes. As a general rule, players will be able to use the top 2 or 3 ranks of each spell before receiving any penalty. All of the existing ratios for the +healing and +spell damage bonuses on spells are also still in effect; so spells with a short casting time will continue to receive a smaller bonus than spells with a longer casting time. Spells learned below level 20 will still receive substantially smaller bonuses.
Source: http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.html?topicId=38173821&sid=1
- So spells learned under level 20 are getting double penalized. Why do they even give "Of <School> Wrath" suffix to greens before level 20 then? The reliable formula for me was ((level learned) + 11)/(player level) as it seems to work for most spells. With a few exceptions probably. Like Life Tap that receives full benefit for any caster level. --Drundia 23:06, 21 November 2006 (EST)
Secondary effect penalty is not accurate
Hi everyone. I am relatively new to wowwikki and how things work here, so my apologies for any ignorance on my part.
I'm working on some calculations and I've found a some discrepancies, specifically in the mage section (I haven't checked the other classes yet):
Spells with secondary effects:
Wowwikki says on Formulas:Plus_damage_and_Plus_healing to use this formula:
benefit = ( casting time / 3.5 ) - .05
However in the SF on Spell_Damage_Comparison, they seem to have used the formula (or a derivative of the formula):
benefit = ( casting time / 3.5 ) * .95
This will result in a slight difference in spells which have a secondary effect. For example, Frostbolt with the first formula has 80.71% SF, but with the second formula it is 81.4% SF.
Any thoughts?
(Also, how do you write something in code/monotype format?
--Colossus10 10:40, 9 November 2006 (EST)
Correct formula is multiplying by 0.95
--Drundia 23:07, 20 November 2006 (EST)
Hybrid DD+DOT
Hybrid DD+DOT spells (Immolate, Moonfire) have no reliable way of determining the bonus. Formula based on cast time and duration fails in both cases, older formula that based distribution between DD and DOT on actual amounts of damage also generally fails, it matches for Immolate Rank 7 and 9, the remaining ranks just benefit the same amounts as those 2 ranks. Moonfire is strange. At least value found in Theorycraft is violating both rules (hopefully addon creator used correct values)
--Drundia 23:14, 20 November 2006 (EST)