Talk:Lich King

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Lich King "Individual" links

I just decided that in the quote on the top of the Lich King page I would change the word individuals so it would link to Arthas and Ner'zhul seperately, like this: individuals. If this isn't such a good idea, just change it back. ;)  Vraul Jawrip (talk · contr) () 16:11, 2 July 2009 (UTC)

Lich King Portrait

How did anyone get that picture? I've seen that trailer dozens of times and I've never spotted him, whole body, Frostmourne glowing and him standing in the snow there. Also what was he doing with Frostmourne, the wisps coming out of the air into the sword? Please direct your answers onto my tallk page. BobNamataki.

That picture is one of the promo renders they did, and appears in the cinematic art book among other places. -- Dark T Zeratul (talk) 21:43, September 29, 2009 (UTC)

The things coming from the air and onto Frostmourne weren't wisps, they were snowflakes... Malfurion Stormrage (talk) 8:27, 13 October 2009

Frostmourne

What was he doing with Frostmourne, it looked like wisps were melding with his sword. Also, it's very disappointing you can't get Frostmourne during the Icecrown Citadel (instance). Why  [Shadowmourne]? I wonder why it's catering to the Orcs and Trolls.

BobNamataki.

You get Shadowmourne instead of Frostmourne because wielding Frostmourne would steal your soul and turn you into the new Lich King. As for thw wispy thingies, it's purely for visual effect. -- Dark T Zeratul (talk) 18:07, September 30, 2009 (UTC)

CONFIRMED: McConnohie is STILL the Lich King

Michael McConnohie is involved with Hidden Frontier Productions, which makes Star Trek fan series (they've been making them since 2000). I am a fan of this show and have seen him in episodes of this series done earlier in the year, and he was a guest at a chat room session that we hosted tonight (November 2). After sorta...confusing what I meant to communicate (a friend of mine who also plays WoW pushed me into the right direction), he answered this question to my satisfaction (Michael is "OhDoubleGood"). [1] --Joshmaul (talk) 03:03, November 3, 2009 (UTC)

How powerful is the Lich King

Exactly how powerful is he... i heard his more powerful than kil'jaeden —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Zelaroth (talk · contr).

Kil'jaeden created him, so I don't think he could be more powerful than Kil'jaeden. And he certainly isn't powerful enough to regain control over Sylvanas and the Forsaken, but it is unknown whether that is because he failed to regain the powers he lost at the end of The Frozen Throne, or whether Sylvanas and the Forsaken are simply stronger than they used to be. Seeing as he has more recently lost control over the Death Knights, it is likely that the Lich King is continuing to lose power. Alpha Sigma Sigma (talk) 21:03, November 14, 2009 (UTC)

Firstly, confirm your sources. Ner'zhul the Lich King lost control over Sylvanas. Arthas the Lich King is more powerful, carrys frostmourne and has a very high kill count. BobNamataki (talk) 20:24, November 22, 2009 (UTC)

Ner'zhul had Frostmourne too, albeit no arms to swing it. In that regard, Arthas is indeed more powerful than Ner'zhul. On the other hand, Ner'zhul lost a lot of magical power throughout the undead campaign of The Frozen Throne and never got it back, as evidenced by the fact that the Forsaken remain free of his control to this day. (If Arthas were powerful enough to regain control of the Forsaken, as Ner'zhul was, he would have done so by now.) Lich King Arthas' overall power may be greater than Lich King Ner'zhul's, if Arthas' physical strength is greater than the magical power that Ner'zhul lost, but the fact remains that Arthas isn't as strong magically as Ner'zhul was. And Arthas never recovered from the battle at Light's Hope Chapel either, as evidenced by the fact that the Death Knights have also remained free of his control. Alpha Sigma Sigma (talk) 22:35, November 24, 2009 (UTC)

I like your reasoning. It's like, all the body does is make the Lich King look cool. --Super Bhaal (talk) 01:39, November 25, 2009 (UTC)

Not just make him look cool. He also has infinitely more physical strength than he had before the merger. The only question is whether that compensates for the magical strength that he lost throughout TFT. I think it doesn't. Alpha Sigma Sigma (talk) 14:57, November 25, 2009 (UTC)

Add to the fact he was weakened further when his heart was destroyed. Whether he recovered from this is up for debate though. ¥ Super Novice ↔ Talk ² Me ¥ 21:26, December 9, 2009 (UTC)

Status from 3.3.0

I've went ahead and changed the Lich King's status to killable in WoW. Just wanting to know if there are any objections to that change.AhotahThunderhorn (talk) 21:50, December 9, 2009 (UTC)

Eh, I don't object (not that I have any say in this matter...). There is, after all, a special Lich King model in the model viewer that has a "death" animation... I guess if anything you'd be asked to revert and wait a little while for people to find out you can beat the stuffing out of him... --Super Bhaal (talk) 22:03, December 9, 2009 (UTC)

Not to mention the patch wallpaper showing his empty helmet next to the shattered hilt of Frostmourne... I think it's a reasonable assumption to make unless we find out otherwise. -- Dark T Zeratul (talk) 22:04, December 9, 2009 (UTC)

Unable to Edit?

Hey there. I've been attempting to add something into the Speculation area in the

In a dream state where Arthas sees past, present, and future, presented by Ner'zhul, Arthas murders the child manifestation of his humanity (e.g. love, compassion, and so forth). Delighted at this decision Ner'zhul states "We are one, Arthas. Together we are the Lich King. No more Ner'zhul, no more Arthas -- only this one glorious being." With that Arthas murders Ner'zhul and tells him "No we. No one tells me what to do. I've got everything I need from you -- now the power is mine and mine alone. Now there is only I. I am the Lich King. And I am ready." Ner'zhul is stunned by the betrayal, then disappears.[4] It is uncertain if this dream state actually results in Arthas murdering Ner'zhul's essence, but it would seem to indicate that Arthas's soul lords over Ner'zhul's.

And add in a new paragraph;

However, it is also believed that The Lich King may be in a way it's own entity. Seeing that Arthas's soul is attempting to stop the Lich King, while Ner'zhul's soul was eradicated and betrayed. It would make some sense that, seeing Arthas himself was the "small flame inside of him" that stopped him, hesitated him from doing things. So it might be possible that, the current Lich King is neither Arthas nor Ner'zhul. And, if this speculation is true, would make some sense as to whom killed King Terenas, destroyed Quel'Thalas and so on, seeing Arthas himself attempted to stop "Death Knight Arthas."

If anyone knows why I can't edit, or can do me a favor in adding this, it would be great.Frostmourne Hungers. (talk)

The article is locked to avoid spoilers until the 3rd.

If I understood your paragraph, you would say that the Lich King is not the wielder of Helm of Domination but a self-entity in the Helm? That sounds strange because the Helm was only designed to contain Ner'Zhul's spirit and give him control over the deads.

Loremaster A'noob, Arch Druid of the Noobhoof Clan (^talk/_contribz) 11:34, February 2, 2010 (UTC)

He is, I mean. According to Arthas: Rise of the Lich King, Arthas' true spirit attempted to stop the warmongering Death Knight Arthas. This might hint of that, in a way, Arthas was both "Prince Arthas Menethil" -and- "Death Knight Arthas." Upon merging Arthas's soul with Ner'zhul's, they "became one."

However, there were -three- figures in that book. A death knight, the sickly child (Arthas), and the old orc (Ner'zhul).

Now, if Arthas was the real Arthas in Warcraft 3 and so on, he kills himself? It may be his soul was split, or similar. But my belief that, Frostmourne nearly fully absorbed Arthas' soul, true. But what remained behind? Who was it, if Arthas had no control over himself? That, is what I want to add into the speculation area. Which, if this means anything, seeing Arthas eradicated nearly utterly "the sickly child" and "the old orc," both betrayed, it would mean it's both Arthas and Ner'zhul. But he is not them. He is a duplicate of Arthas, a duplicate of Ner'zhul, and thrown together. That, I believe, is why Blizzard said they are both combined. Yes, he is both combined. But my, and my friends' speculation is; -is- he both of them? Or is he both of them .. yet both Ner'zhul and Arthas are still individual spririts?Frostmourne Hungers. (talk)

ICC Ending Cinematic Transcription

The following is a transcription of the cinematic that plays following the defeat of the Lich King in ICC, as revealed in Patch 3.3.2. Fair warning that anything beyond this point can be considered spoilers - though if you're concerned about those, you probably wouldn't be here! Placed here for convenience's sake, with regard to any future updating needs.

- Pheryl (talk) 12:57, February 2, 2010 (UTC)

Arthas lies supine, the shattered remnants of Frostmourne beside him. He starts as the ghost of Terenas Menethil materializes over him, and the characteristic blue glow dissipates from his eyes.

Arthas Menethil: Father! Is it... over?

Terenas Menethil II: At long last. No king rules forever, my son.

Arthas Menethil: I see... only darkness... before... me.

Arthas' eyes roll back into his head, and apparently dies. Terenas closes his son's eyes as Tirion walks in.

Terenas Menethil II: Without its master's command, the restless Scourge will become an even greater threat to this world.

Terenas Menethil II: Control must be maintained. There must always be a Lich King.

Terenas' ghost disappears, Tirion retrieves the Helm of Domination and examines it.

Tirion Fordring: The weight of such a burden... must be mine. For there is no other...

Bolvar Fordragon: Tirion! You hold a grim destiny in your hands, brother - but it is not your own.

The scorched caricature of Bolvar is revealed, sitting atop the Frozen Throne.

Tirion Fordring: Bolvar! By all that is holy...

Bolvar Fordragon: The dragons' flame sealed my fate. The world of the living can no longer comfort me. Place the crown upon my head, Tirion. Forevermore, I will be the jailer of the damned.

Tirion Fordring: No, old friend. I cannot.

Bolvar Fordragon: Do it, Tirion! You and these brave heroes have your own destinies to fulfill. This last act of service... is mine.

Tirion Fordring: You will not be forgotten, brother.

Bolvar Fordragon: I must be forgotten, Tirion! If the world is to live free from the tyranny of fear, they must never know what was done here today.

Tirion nods, and accedes to Bolvar's request.

Bolvar Fordragon: Tell them only that the Lich King is dead. And that Bolvar Fordragon died with him.

The throne freezes over.

Bolvar Fordragon: Now, go. Leave this place, and never return.

Question. Did you get that from an official source or made that yourself? Since really, "Bolvar's voice blends with Ner'zhul" is a misleading comment.Frostmourne Hungers. (talk)

This is imo just a booming voice, nothing to do with Ner'zhul

Loremaster A'noob, Arch Druid of the Noobhoof Clan (^talk/_contribz) 19:25, February 2, 2010 (UTC)

I thought the "voice sounding like a bunch of people hitting each other with lawn chairs" was part of the whole merging thing.--TheUltimate (talk) 19:30, February 2, 2010 (UTC)

ICC Ending Cinematic

I just found the cinematic in YouTube WOW_FotLK_1024.avi --Gbergalli (talk) 14:37, February 2, 2010 (UTC)

What should this article focus on now?

The Lich King as a title (which belonged to Ner'zhul, Ner'zhul/Arthas, Arthas, and now Bolvar), or the Lich King as a character (the Arthas-dominant one that served as the antagonist throughout Wrath of the Lich King)? For the purposes of the introduction and NPC box, I would suggest the latter. It's important to note what came before and after, but I think the character from WotLK is what most people will be looking for here. Egrem (talk) 20:33, February 2, 2010 (UTC)

It's worth noting, that the article also focuses on the Lich King has he appeared in WC3 and WC3:TFT: i.e. the disembodies spirit trapped in an ice cube. It is also worth noting that as of now, Bolvar was the Lich King for all of 20 seconds in the cinematic, and then probably some text blurb afterwards.--TheUltimate (talk) 20:39, February 2, 2010 (UTC)

Well the biography section should keep up telling the whole story (a king to another).

The box should remain focused on the actual Lich King (Bolvar's carac).

Fine as it is going no?

Loremaster A'noob, Arch Druid of the Noobhoof Clan (^talk/_contribz) 20:43, February 2, 2010 (UTC)

Thats fine. But Gourra seems to have laid down the law.--TheUltimate (talk) 20:49, February 2, 2010 (UTC)

Well, that's the thing. I think the biography section should tell the whole story (from Ner'zhul to Arthas to Bolvar), but the box should be focused on the Lich King Arthas. He was the main character of Rise of the Lich King and the main character of Wrath of the Lich King. When people think "Lich King", isn't that what they'll be looking for?

Egrem (talk) 20:57, February 2, 2010 (UTC)

The box is supposed to be about the character in its current state, for exemple Garrosh Hellscream is not yet credited as Leader of the Horde.

Loremaster A'noob, Arch Druid of the Noobhoof Clan (^talk/_contribz) 21:00, February 2, 2010 (UTC)

Right, but they're not really the same character. If we're treating "The Lich King" as a character, I think the article should focus on the Lich King from WotLK. If this article is just treating "Lich King" as a title, it should be something more like the article for Warchief - a basic history of the title and links to the pages of the characters that have held it. Egrem (talk) 21:27, February 2, 2010 (UTC)

Problem is Warchief is not a character, whereas the Lich King is. The biography fully explain who was the Lich KIng, how and when.

How about keeping an "actual" box and add a Sub-part named "Lich Kings of the Scourge" (based on Warchiefs of the Horde) with a quick list?

Loremaster A'noob, Arch Druid of the Noobhoof Clan (^talk/_contribz) 21:32, February 2, 2010 (UTC)

I have no idea what an "actual box" sub-part "Lich King of the Scourge" thing is...--TheUltimate (talk) 21:35, February 2, 2010 (UTC)

Ignore that, I'm an idiot.--TheUltimate (talk) 21:36, February 2, 2010 (UTC)

I mean, keeping an actualised box (current state of the character).

Take a look at it now: Lich King#Lich Kings of the Scourge.

Loremaster A'noob, Arch Druid of the Noobhoof Clan (^talk/_contribz) 22:13, February 2, 2010 (UTC)

Perhaps there should be a page for "Lich King", that goes over the history of the title, and a page for "The Lich King", pertaining specifically to the WotLK character and his in-game appearances? It may not be necessary yet, but it's something to keep in mind for later, if this article eventually grows too large. Egrem (talk) 18:44, February 3, 2010 (UTC)

I say we leave it as is, about Arthas with a note about Bolvar at the end, until we see what Bolvar is like as the Lich King. It's possible that the "spirit" of the Lich King will persist in him, making them effectively the same entity. -- Dark T Zeratul (talk) 19:53, February 3, 2010 (UTC)

I noticed that the box's latest addition says the Lich King is Bolvar Fordragon, alone. Are we sure he's alone? I've been under the impression that Ner'zhul's spirit is bound to the helm, so it's likely Ner'zhul / Bolvar. --JakeARoonie (talk) 20:00, February 3, 2010 (UTC)

mispelling

The word "presence" is misspelled under the Scarlet Enclave section (Johnandrebutler (talk) 22:36, February 2, 2010 (UTC))