Talk:Titan

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Contents 1 First? 2 'Racelink' 3 Other Beings 4 Combat styles??? 5 Race Picture? 6 What are the Titans? 7 Children of Old Gods? 8 Dark titan icon? 9 The image of Titans 10 strength of titans 11 Quotes?

First?

If the troggs were one of the two evolutions of Earthen, Dwarves being the other, then they couldn't have been one of the five original races. That should be fixed, but then I don't know where the information came from so I can't really fix it without taking out the whole bit.

The Troggs aren't an evolution of the Earthen. The Titans, in fact, created the Troggs first to be their helpers, but the Troggs came out to be vicious brutes. And so the Titans imprisoned the Troggs, and then created the Earthen. This is all told by the Discs of Norgannon in Uldaman. --Adonzo 20:14, 11 May 2006 (EDT)

Actually, scratch that, I was mistaken. Yes, the Troggs were an undesirable abberation of the Earthen. Another thing I didn't notice was that while the racial statues were well designed, the Trogg statue was crudely carved out of a rock formation. In my opinion, the aberration happened early enough that the Troggs could be considered an original race of Azeroth, if not necessarily a creation of the Titans. --Adonzo 20:24, 11 May 2006 (EDT)

I agree they came early, but only as early as the Dwarves, which are not listed as one of the five 'original' races. So, in my opinion, it would make more sense to say that the Earthen were one of the originals and the troggs and dwarves equal derivations thereof. Leave it to me to be a stickler. :) Also, while I'm on the subject, where exactly does it say that the Trolls were created by the titans and evolved into NightElves? Not to say I disagree, I'm just curious where the actual info comes from. --Iavas 23:01, 11 May 2006 (EST)

• cough* Yeah, so I just noticed that this whole discussion, although fascinating, is quite pointless. The article doesn't list the Troggs or the Dwarves as one of the five originals. Unless somebody edited it, then I must admit that I was mistaken and apologize. --Iavas 23:07, 11 May 2006 (EST)

Yeah, I edited out the Troggs as an "original" race. The five races there now (Earthen, Trolls, Giants, and Tauren) are the only races native to Azeroth that do not seem to be directly descended from another race. As for Night Elves being descended from Trolls, I will point you here. --Adonzo 15:55, 12 May 2006 (EDT)

And even if they're not descended from trolls, they're descended from something non-kaldori (a nocturnal race that found the Well of Eternity). Saimdusan 22:21, 15 June 2007 (UTC)

Azotha perhaps? :) -- Ravenore, the Necroshadowmancer 20:05, 7 August 2007 (UTC)

The "original race" issue is tricky at best. There is no way to "number" it ("I.E" concept of "five original races"). There is implication that furbolgs and murlocs were races that may have predated the coming of the titans as well. If so that would toss any Titan created races from being valid for the "original" race list. For the record Furbolg were living in Northrend at the time of the coming of the Titans and direct encounters were rare, if any (The furbolgs just have legends of the seeing the coming of Titans to their world, but not any references to any specific encounters). Murlocs on the other hand lived under the seas at the time, and never came to the surface to encounter the Titans as far as we know.

As for Trogg history, they were created at different times at different facilities. The same or similar accident occured at various points in history at different titan facilities and slightly different ways (for example at Uldum, and Bael Modan facilities). So its very hard to put a specific date as to when troggs appeared, or in specific way they appeared.Baggins 22:34, 20 July 2007 (UTC)Baggins 22:31, 20 July 2007 (UTC)

I thought before the titans came the world was primordial chaos ruled by the old gods. Must not have been pleasant for them.--SWM2448 22:42, 20 July 2007 (UTC)

That's why the kodos of that time were so huge, also for the huge animal survivors who were labbeled as "demigods" by the lesser races. You need power and size to survive that chaos mon *roll eyes* ---- Ravenore, the Necroshadowmancer 20:09, 7 August 2007 (UTC)

'Racelink'

Ragestorm, what do you mean by 'racelink is only for playable races'? --Vorbis 17:25, 18 Dec 2006 (GMT)

The banner across the top (racelink template) is only to be used on the pages for the ten playable races (Draenei, dwarves, gnomes, kaldorei, humans, sindorei, Forsaken, Orcs, tauren, and trolls) listed in the template, and perhaps the Horde and Alliance pages. Titans are not listed and not playable.--Ragestorm 13:56, 18 December 2006 (EST)

Ah right... whoops. Think I may have just missed that. -_- --Vorbis 22:59, 18 Dec 2006 (GMT)

Playable Titans....now that would be something to experience. --Nurizeko

Other Beings

Besides Moonhounds (or w/e they're called), do we know of the Titans having any mounts, other pets, and/or just any other species of life from their homeworld, or used by them?   Mr.X8 Talk Contribs

Combat styles???

Do we really care about combat styles for the individual Titans? I know WoWWiki isn't Wikipedia, but come on, they seem out of place and just plain... unencyclopedic. I can't help but think they don't belong in the article. I mean, it's all just fluff written by the RPG designers, not actual Warcraft lore. Hekirou 18:18, 26 November 2007 (UTC)

Anything written by offical Blizzard RPG designers is official lore. If someone on WoWwiki just went and manufactured these "fighting styles" for them, then they don't belong in the article at all. ~Don't say Retnoob, say Peregrine 20:20, 26 November 2007 (UTC)

Race Picture?

Could we get some verification that the picture used the represent the race is an offical blizzard representation, or at the very least recognized fan art? ~My rage bar is blue and I start the fight pissed - Peregrine 23:39, 20 December 2007 (UTC)

What are the Titans?

I've made up my mind about the Titans. I looked through any information about them, including any site that is currently available on Azeroth that is somehow related to them. I get the impression that the Titans didn't actually "leave" Azeroth. It looks more as if somebody puts down anything he has in his hands and leaves the planet in a hurry.

What about the gate at Uldum for example. Clearly the gate was built to keep something "inside". I mean....the Titans had the ability to imprison the Elemental Lords to another dimension. And then they build a wooden gate in front of Uldum? All im asking is if somebody who reads this also has the impression that the Titans are not what the legends make us think about them. Metamagic 03:31, 08 February 2008 (CET)

What are you getting at here? Who said they were made to keep something inside? --SWM2448 02:47, 8 February 2008 (UTC)

The reason is quite simple. There are big iron brackets on the outside of the gate. (One is actually missing) They are sufficient to hold a big log to hold the gate shut. Now the point is: With these brackets to hold a log on the outside of the gate...it is clearly made to hold something inside... Metamagic 04:09, 08 February 2008 (CET)

He's right about one thing, those gates are meant to keep something in, not out. If you look on the uldum page there's a lot of information relating to it. Now, there's no reason to think that it was the titans that put that gate up, could be the giants out side of it, or one of the ancient races of azeroth that we may or may not know about. I really don't know what this guy's getting at, he needs to stop beating around the bush and come out and say it, in my opinion.Tweak the Whacked 03:26, 8 February 2008 (UTC)

All I'm trying to say is that some things that the legends say about the titans don't really fit to what "ancient items" can be found around Azeroth which were supposedly made by the Titans. Maybe Tweak is right....maybe there are more ancient races we have not seen anything about yet. Let me give you more examples exept the gate I mentioned. When I went to Uldaman and I opened the chamber holding the Disks for the first time....I asked myself....They keep gold here? A race of beings of unimmaginable power keep gold in their vault? A being of such power should be beyond that. Sargeras for example surely was. And what about the Troggs? In the Wowwiki article about the Titans they are described as reclusive. Watching that they don't interfere with natural evolution. Creating a race of beings and just leaving that race untended is a quite severe interference with natural evolution, isn't it. Somebody who doesn't want to interfere with the "natural way things are" shouldn't be doing things like that at all. They must have known that the Troggs (and the Dwarves for that matter) would come out of their "captivity" one day. And the Disks of Norgannon? Kept in a vault that is easier to access than Scholomance.... It almost seems that they were rather meant to be found. The architecture of Uldaman shows many things about whoever built it. Structure, symetry, order. That doesn't fit a race of powerful beings which keeps one of its failed experiments untended. And what about Un Goro Crater? Somehow the Titans managed to halt the natural way of evolution. Hence all the dinosaurs in the crater. How does that fit into that? And the elemental lords like Ragnaros? According to legend they were banished to another dimension by the Titans. Somebody who is able to achieve that shouldn't be building gates to keep something from being robbed. Imho I think there are a few ways to explain that: Either the Titans and the builders of Uldaman etc. are not the same race or the mysterious Titans were much more "down to earth beings" that the legends make us think. Secondly all these various facts show that this progenitor race may be quite intelligent, but certainly not the very wise. However there is also the simple explanation that the designers of the game just didn't think about such details. Whatever...what do you think? Metamagic 07:14, 08 February 2008 (CET)

Well I think a few things. Firstly, the the ease/difficulty of reaching the disk cannot be compared to say scholomance, as lore power and game mechanics don't always mesh well, just because they're a certain ingame level does not mean that is their actual power.

Secondly, not interfering with natural evolution could be part of the myth to explain why they left, they might just not care about us. Then again, as they are presumably the creators of most if not all intellegent life(the furbolg myth doesn't hold a lot of water as far as i'm concerned), natural evolution could simply refer to how the races they create develop. As far as they're concerned, the troggs, dwarves, and earthen are natural creatures of the world, and since they were formed from the very stone of azeroth itself, they are in a way. Its possible that the other creatures are also creations, or the decendants of titan creations.

Its also worth noting that the dwarves and troggs weren't imprisioned in Ulda by the titans, the original troggs were destroyed for their savage nature, and the earthen who chose to seal themselves away beneath the earth destabalized, some into troggs and some into dwarves.

Its also possible that the titans did want those disc found, as if they didn't, they wouldn't have left a construct there to translate for those who found them. Still, its a vault, and you take security measures in a vault. The presence of coins could have been a design oversight by the devs, or it could mean that dwarves, who value things made from the ore of the earth, inherited this trait from the earthen.

Un'goro could simply be an annomally caused by the unique geography of the region. As there is a near identical crater in northrend who's name escapes me right now, it could be as simple as the act of "landing" on azeroth by the titans had an unforseeable side effect that resulted in these crators. The dinosaurs remaining their might not be because of halted evolution, they may simply have been unsuited to survive in other enviroments. In places like Un'goro, they could thrive without predators such as humans and trolls hunting them.

Binding the elemental lords and old gods wasn't done with the wave of a hand that most people think it was, it was a war that waged on for thousands of years. And since their prime enemies had been banished, it stands to reason that they didn't see the need to expend the energy to bind their structures to another realm, especially since they may have wanted their creations to one day gain entry. Earthen were definately able to open and close the gates of titan structures when they chose, as they sealed them selves in to escape the legion.

And I maintain that the gates on Uldum are not of titan construct, and are in all likely hood only a few hundred years old, as even wood that thick would rot away after much longer. The War of the Ancients trilogy confirms that there are many unknown races that have gone extinct in ages past, predating even the trolls and elves, as a dragon mentions that the night elves wouldn't be the first race to destroy themselves with the power of the well of eternity. The rpg also list several races not shown in other sources of lore.

The titans may not be all knowing and all powerful, but several things are unforseeable, and or have other explainations. The titans being a major creator race isn't legend, infact most people on azeroth have never heard of them, its what actually happened according to blizzard. So there are a few inconsistancies, doesn't mean the whole myth is a lie.Tweak the Whacked 22:09, 8 February 2008 (UTC)

Hmmm....interesting. Maybe you're right. However your argumentation holds some inconsistencies.

Iwasn't actually refering to game mechanics when I said that Scholo is harder to access. In other words I don't think about the levels of beings inside, because I understand that lore power and game mechanics don't mesh well. What I mean is that you have to forge a key to get to Scholo. In Ulda basically every group of three people is able to open that vault. Theres no key at all! Shouldn't somebody who is able to put others away to other dimensions have better ways to achieve that? I mean ok there are a lot of guardians in there thats for sure....however that doesn't fit to a vault door that doesn't really have a secure lock. I don't know how to say it...it just doesn't ... feel right...it feels more...so...set up.

And about the Non-Interference? What you say means basically that it is ok to meddle in affairs of the "natural way" as long as you don't use means to achieve that which are "not of this world". This also feels...not logically....it feels more like a bad ecuse for what you do. I mean a geneticist wouldn't argue like that. That he justifies what he does beacause he is able to do it.

About the discs...I still claim that they were rather meant to be found. Much the same way as the dwarves found that Great Anvil they have in Ironforge.

And Un Goro? If a race of beings manages to survive by whatever means ( benevolent environment, lack of predators etc.) that doesn't mean they don't evolve. I mean look outside....you see birds, lizards, snakes, frogs. They are basically the "dinosaurs" of our time. These are the animals the remaining dinosaurs evolved into. Just managing to survive doesn't halt evolution. Now the question remains if this was done on purpose or not. Well...at least the obelisks around the perimeter of the crater were clearly put there on purpose not coincidentially. And they still work. The space between them has remained a lush forrest while the area around them is dry, desert, a barren waste. Coincidence? I don't think so...

About the gold in Ulda. Well the easiest explanation is that the devs simply oversaw that detail. Ok the Earthen locked themselves in there. However...if you put yourself away in a vault to endure some kind of cataclysm outside. Would you take money with you inside that bunker? Surely not...

And about mythology and truth? That is always a tricky thing. Because I think mythology and truth dont mesh that well. The truth in a myth lies hidden and is not that easy to see.

Whatever....here is my version of what happened. The Titans were in fact quite "normal" people. Like humans....but very advanced in things like technology, magic or science. It is also possible that they evolved to such a state and that they were like todays humans when they arived on Azeroth. At some point something they did went incredibly bad. Some kind of "cataclysm" which they were not entirely inocent about. At that point they decided to leave the planet. However they left something here. Once these things are found the Titans would know this world is hospitable again. Populated by thinking beings. Now once they know that...they will return here for good or bad...that remains to be seen. Metamagic 22:52, 10 February 2008 (CET)

Problem is evolution doesn't apply within this game. Lore has established that, for the most part, the races of this game are the result of intelegent design. Wether from the old gods, titans, elune, or demons, every creature is the direct result of one of these beings, or mutation from another source. Considering that life on azeroth started 140 some odd thousand years before the game started, it would be impossibe for the kind of evolution we see to happen naturally. Thats the kind of stuff that happens over millions of years. Lore has offically established that elementals ruled azeroth under the old gods before the titans came, and then the titans shaped life as we know it.

And as a matter of point, evolution will stop if a creature is perfectly addapted to its enviroment. Sharks and crocodilians have barely changed over hundreds of millions of years because they are so well adapted. The dinosaurs of un'goro are the same, so long as the enviroment doesn't change theres no reason for them to change either.Tweak the Whacked 22:23, 10 February 2008 (UTC)

Hm...hm...hm....well...I'd rather say evolution does apply here. I mean the night elves evolved into Naga. The Earthen evolved into Dwarves. The "fantasy" element means this happens very rappidly. I don't claim that evolution started millions of years ago as far as Azeroth is considered. It happens more like mutation. However what is mutation? Nothing more than a sudden rapid step in evolution. Brought about by magic in this case.

In the end...lets just say that you have your opinion and I have mine. Both correct in its own way. Cause nobody knows what really happened. Metamagic 23:55, 10 February 2008 (CET)

Children of Old Gods?

Anyone believe that the Titans were children of the Old Gods, but Titans decided they should have been killed. Similar to Greek Mythology were Olympians over through Cronus and the other Titans. Also connects to Twilight hammer belief

The Titans "discovered" Azeroth after many years of creating the universe. So... no, not really. ~My rage bar is blue and I start the fight pissed - Peregrine 18:56, 18 February 2008 (UTC)

Well they had to have had parents, considering Sargeras, and Aman'thul are brothers, and what other known beings are powerful enough to have titan children.Geeko 19:55, 18 February 2008 (UTC)

A previous generation of Titans? A race we haven't yet seen? Or, they simply could have popped out of the ether at the same place. Note that this discussion is non-editorial and should be concluded or moved. --Ragestorm (talk · contr) 20:01, 18 February 2008 (UTC)

Can't have been a previous generation Aman'thul is oldest and wisest of his race. Geeko 23:21, 18 February 2008 (UTC)

Heed the Ragestorm!--SWM2448 23:24, 18 February 2008 (UTC)

Dark titan icon?

As eredar have different race icons to draenei - including female eredar, of which only three are known - I move that we therefore also have a suitable dark titan race icon; for example:

Even though there is only one dark titan known so far (though others apparently exist); as he is the prime antagonist of the Warcraft series I do not believe it superfluous to allow him an icon. --V - Talk / Spam 11:12, 31 March 2008 (UTC)

Other Dark Titans exist??

Link, please. ~My rage bar is blue and I start the fight pissed - Peregrine 01:52, 16 June 2008 (UTC)

dark titans was used as a plural term in Magic & Mystery.Baggins (talk) 02:18, 16 June 2008 (UTC)

If there are other dark titans, maybe one of them could be behind one of the many plotlines in WoW. Although if any of these dark titans have the strength of Sargeras, Azeroth is going to have a big fight on thier hands.  Rolandius  (talk - contr) 02:24, 16 June 2008 (UTC)

I keep picturing an expansion to WoW, "World of WarCraft: The Travellers" or some such name, featuring the return of the Titans... and, the return of Sargeras. ~My rage bar is blue and I start the fight pissed - Peregrine 17:02, 16 June 2008 (UTC)

The image of Titans

Okay what are Titans supposed to look like? There a lot of pictures on here of them looking like humans or superhumans. Then there are the pictures of them looking like Stone giants or Stone guardians.  Rolandius  (talk - contr) 06:34, 13 June 2008 (UTC)

There are pictures in both the main Titan article and those of the individual Pantheon members. -- Dark T Zeratul (talk) 11:43, 13 June 2008 (UTC)

I know that. That is why I am asking, what do they really look like? Thier individual pictures or the pictures of them looking like stone giants? Both type of pictures are different in depicting a Titan.  Rolandius  (talk - contr) 12:02, 13 June 2008 (UTC)

I'm not sure what you mean. By definition, the titans are gigantic humanoids made of metal. I think every image we have tries to convey this.--Ragestorm (talk · contr) 13:00, 13 June 2008 (UTC)

He means this looks more like this than this.--SWM2448 23:45, 13 June 2008 (UTC)

Oh. Well, I'd say that this is the in-game rendition of this. You can see light reflecting off his skin in the latter. --Ragestorm (talk · contr) 01:24, 14 June 2008 (UTC)

The main titans look like their artwork. If they appear in-game they will be forced to use a stone giant model, as a short cut. Also there are other pictures of titans ingame presented in bas relief on the walls of Uldaman. Not sure if anyone has bottered to upload the textures though. It would be nice. It makes them look like greek dieties.Baggins (talk) 01:32, 14 June 2008 (UTC)

Yes what SWM said was what I was trying to say. If they look like the greek dieties, then they look human — just more grand and strong. If they look like metal humanoids or guardians, then that is more like the in-game model. I was just wondering, are they metal-skinned gigantic statue sized guardians or are they huge greek type idealic looking humanoids who might even be related to humans. Like the saying goes:

if a lower technological society ever met a higher technologic society, they would think the advanced society are magical and gods, when in reality they are just more ahead in thier civilization technology.  Rolandius  (talk - contr) 04:32, 14 June 2008 (UTC)

They look like metal-skinned greek dieties, and the named ones look like they do in their artwork... Its not that difficult.Baggins (talk) 04:37, 14 June 2008 (UTC)

Ok well to me the named ones in the artwork don't all look like metal-skinned giants. Just look at Khaz'goroth and Aman'Thul.  Rolandius  (talk - contr) 05:15, 14 June 2008 (UTC)

Its easy to tell which skin color they'd have based on their subrace vanir, and aesir. However, how do expect to tell base on just a black and white picture? Put two and two together. Certainly a black and white picture isn't going allow you to see "metalic" colors.Baggins (talk) 05:26, 14 June 2008 (UTC)

That is true. Although I do think that the Titans are probably more similiar in looks to humans then we think.LOL I don't know if it was them or the people who first met them. Someone just made them look a little better, like we use airbrushing nowadays.  Rolandius  (talk - contr) 05:32, 14 June 2008 (UTC)

Its offical lore that they have metallic skin, platnium(sp?) and bronze, respectively, except for Sargeras, whos skin is of molten metal.Tweak the Whacked (talk) 05:38, 14 June 2008 (UTC)

What was Sargeras before? A vanir or aesir?  Rolandius  (talk - contr) 05:41, 14 June 2008 (UTC)

Point of note the majority of information we know about titans and the artwork for them comes from the same book, Shadows & Light. Additional information is in the warcraft III manuals, and Warcraft encyclopedia. Most of that information is in the various articles. If you want to learn about the individuals look at those. Also look at the pictures of Sargeras (point of note one more still needs to be added). Also I believe its said sargeras skin is like molten bronze, its mostly solid but apparently has cracks of molten liquid leaking out.Baggins (talk) 05:44, 14 June 2008 (UTC)

Well I know Sargeras looks way different after he turned evil. He looks like Deathwing did when he turned evil, like you said cracks in his skin with molten liquid leaking out. Also he has a tail, is very tall, and just looks plain evil.  Rolandius  (talk - contr) 05:59, 14 June 2008 (UTC)

Where is it said he has a tail? Haven't seen a picture or read a discription of him to suggest he has a tail, though one picture does show him with goat like legs, which seems to be the biggest difference between him and the other titans, besides the flaming skin and molten flesh.(And its largely believed that was simply an avatar of Sargeras, anyway. Note it uses a spear, not his shattered sword)Tweak the Whacked (talk) 11:19, 14 June 2008 (UTC)

Oh in the novel, The War of the Ancients.^{Sund 323} They described the real Sargeras when he was on the other side of the portal getting ready to come into Azeroth, and it seems like a lot of the demons have tails. He changed a lot from the former Titan he was. The novel says he makes Archimonde and Mannoroth look like fleas. The power of 100 dragons was nothing to him. He has molten armor that actually makes your eyes seem to burn, a very loud voice, his eyes look like the abyss, he has fangs now, a long tail, and his hands end in wicked talons. It would make a great drawing I think.  Rolandius  (talk - contr) 11:31, 14 June 2008 (UTC)

Roland, I don't think we've been specifically told, but we can extrapolate that Sargeras was a Vanir. The "molten bronze" description would hold true for other Vanir, the molten thing being the what metal skin would give the appearance of.--Ragestorm (talk · contr) 12:54, 14 June 2008 (UTC)

Oh ya, I was just telling Tweak the Whacked about where I found the inormation about Sargeras' tail, and added some extra stuff I found on that page.  Rolandius  (talk - contr) 12:58, 14 June 2008 (UTC)

Point of note, Sargeras is specifically confirmed to be vanir in Shadows & Light^{S&L 121, 123}. Also I think its implied that Sargeras has shape-shifting abilities so he could appear any way he wants too, and his appearance seems to vary between sources. Here is his Shadows & Light descripton which also confirms his tail;

The being is huge almost beyond comprehension, and is fully clad in a burning suit of molten, black armor. Wildly dancing flames surround its head and form a thick mass of hair and a sweeping beard. A pair of horns extends from the being’s forehead and a burning tail sweeps behind, leaving a trail of glowing embers in its wake. One of its arms hefts a massive, etched lance that is lined with a series of viciously hooked barbs.^{S&L 122}

--Baggins (talk) 17:53, 14 June 2008 (UTC)

strength of titans

Why is it that in many ways the Titans seem very superior and strong, and in other ways just an average race? On one hand, they created the Azeroth we know now. On the other hand, they had to create giants and earthen to fight just the soldiers of the Old Gods.  Rolandius  (talk - contr) 01:52, 17 June 2008 (UTC)

Earthen and giants were made after the old gods were defeated. Not a discussion for a talk page, regardless.Tweak the Whacked (talk) 10:01, 11 July 2008 (UTC)

Quotes?

If it is a quote from a source, shouldn't there be quote marks around the sentences? This way I don't grammar check it, then get blamed for touching a quote.  Rolandius  (talk - contr) 09:59, 11 July 2008 (UTC)