Gaming
 

Talk:Twink

From WoWWiki

Contents

Objectivity, Please

While nobody likes the level 19 with the Crusader Enchant, this article is meant to be informative, not a soapbox for denouncing and insulting people whom we disagree with. Some degree of twinking is encouraged by the game; I know my alts always have 4 Runecloth bags waiting for them when they reach town. Nothing is gained by purely point-of-view commentary; readers can evaluate for themselves. --Aeleas 00:13, 17 March 2006 (EST)

  • Yes, this page isn't designed for people to vent out about how much they hate twinks, but if people want to spend their time and money creating them, that's their choice. Replacing the page with a solid wall of text spewing about how twinks destroy the game isn't going to "fix" the issue, it'll just make people angry. Keep the subjectivness to the discussion page :) --Cigawoot 14:57, 30 March 2006 (EST)

In a way, a twink is like a low-level version of an "epic'd out" level 70 character. However, it is quite impossible to have all the equipment that a twink would have without having a high-level alt, because it would be impossible for a character to have all that equipment and still be at that low a level without another source.

[Opinion]The above statement is absolutely false. Money is easily made on the auction house by anyone with a small amount of time to invest (even starting with a tiny amount of money). I started on my own with no level 60 characters on a server and now have three twinks (19, 29, and 39) all with purchased libram enchants, AQ enchants, and the best weapon enchants for their class. This needs to be fixed... The word "impossible" does not belong. It is most definitely possible - and even easy and not time consuming. By the above logic, anyone level 19 with a cruel barb or any non-BoE blue is a twink because it is impossible to solo the instance at that level, kill VC and get the drop.--Yoimjamie 10:20, 1 October 2006 (EDT)

The above statement is not always true, if ever at all. I have personnaly spent the last six months standing at the auction house doing nothing but earning gold just to twink my warrior, but when I put my hard-worked on character into warsong gulch I discovered that all the other tweaks had hundreds and hundreds of gold invested into their characters, something that I could never achieve due to people exploiting the auctioneer addon all the time and the fact that its impossible to make more than 1 or 2 gold profit by buying an item and reposting it at a higher price. I have about 70-80 gold invested in my twink, and that's from trading at the auction house for six months non-stop. It might work on a server with a different economy, I personnally play on warsong, but its clear to me that it isn't always possible.--XShadowSoulx 04:12, 8 August 2007 (UTC)

No one except gold buyers and people with high-level mains can "truly Twink" a character. There is no Server with a market that is conducive to thousands of gold being made "easily".

OK guys I've copy edited literally hundreds of WoWWiki pages and this is the first one that is completely outside of the boundaries of our accepted limits regarding neutral point of view. For that reason I have flagged this article with NPOV tag as a warning to readers. As someone who carefully weighs the nuances of wording in WoWWiki, I can't believe how this was written. The whole language smarts of dislike towards twinks, with examples too numerous to bring up. It's one thing to say "some people consider twinks to be..." but to start with a sentence that reads "A twink is a player character that exploits the PVP system..." or "in order to easily kill newer players as a compensation for a lack of real PVP skill" is just insulting to anyone who has tried to gear up a toon at the level brackets for some BG fun. --Teni (talk) 10:57, 9 August 2008 (UTC)

I've reverted a lot of POV in this article to reflect the norm. Please do not insert your opinions because we're trying to remain neutral here. --SCase

Twink vs. Power Leveling

The usage of Twink as a form of Power Leveling is foreign to me. Is this generally accepted usage? --[[User:Ceto|Ceto (talk)]] 12:38, 6 Feb 2006 (EST)

I don't really think so. Power leveling is leveling a character quickly, twinking a character is maknig much more powerful then intended at the character's level.--Cigawoot 16:57, 14 March 2006 (EST)

They are distinct, and I've removed a few parts of the article which referred to power levelling as opposed to twinking. Things like XP reductions with a higher level character in the group don't really relate to the ability to twink.--Aeleas 17:15, 14 March 2006 (EST)

This is used to allow the twink to obtain BoP gear without the requisite experience gain. So experience minimisation is a tactic used to twink. An example is the rifle obtained from the Big Game Hunter series of quests in STV. --Dga 19:11, 30 August 2007 (UTC)

Twinking for the use of power leveling is perfectlly acceptable to most people. The problem is...Twinks are vehemently opposed to leveling. The point of twinking is not to level but, to dominate a certain PVP bracket. Once they leave "thier" bracket, the twink's gear quickly becomes obsolete and they are only very well geared instead of twinks.

Drops

"" Are drop adjustments in groups based on highest level character? ""

I believe Blizzard has confirmed that they don't seed loot tables in this way, but I'm unable to find anything definitive.--Aeleas 17:15, 14 March 2006 (EST)
You'll find more green/blue drops with someone higher level in your party because you'll kill more things in the same ammount of time. Say you normally you kill 30 mobs in 30 minutes, and you get three green items. If you have someone higher level with you, and you kill 60 mobs in 30 minutes, you'll likely get six green items in the same time span as it took you to get three before, thus the illusion of better drop rates.--Darkfox190 15:21, 5 August 2006 (EDT)

Arguments for and against

What some people don't seem to understand however, is that different aspects of games, apeal to different people. Some enjoy the atmosphere of grinding/questing in groups and leveling to have a strong character to battle monsters with. Some enjoy the PvP aspect of pitting their strength and skills agains other actual people. Twinking is a result of this as different people have different styles and strategies, and ultimately they are battling it out to see who has the best strategy/skill vs eachother (hence PvP) instead of people trying to find the best strategy/skills vs monsters (hence PvE).

I'm not really clear whether the above paragraph is intended to be an argument for or against twinking. If the goal of PvP is to determine who has the best strategy and skill against other people, that's exactly what twinking undermines. Or is it arguing that twinking is just another valid strategy?--Aeleas 12:32, 16 April 2006 (EDT)

  • There should be an opinion-based section of the article with the various arguments for and against twinking, in a a fair manner. It's good to have subjectivity, just segregate it from the main content. I think I'll add a section for arguments, stating that these are people's arguments for and against the act of twinking. --Cigawoot 13:13, 16 April 2006 (EDT) (EDIT: Nm, it was added).

I've moved the debate section to the end, since it is the most subjective portion of the article, and should come after the other more concrete sections. I've also split it into point form arguments for and against.--Aeleas 17:19, 17 April 2006 (EDT)

Twinking Debate

Moved from main article --Adys (talk ยท contr) 13:38, 5 January 2007 (EST)

Twinking is controversial within the World of Warcraft community.

Common arguments for the position that twinking is unsportsmanlike include
  • In order to gear up quicker via honor points, most twinks have been observed to hunt honor kills in BGs rather than assist the raid as a whole, resulting in more often losses of the battleground itself.
  • Low-level battlegrounds are decided based on who has spent the most gold, rather than based on skill.
  • Twinking encourages gold-buying, since purchasing the best items is faster than earning them via quests or PvP.
  • Players with low-level characters are unable to compete on an even footing in battlegrounds unless they already have a level 60 character and are willing to invest hundreds of gold in their low-level alt.
  • Since some players are bound to twink their alts, other players are forced to do the same to stay competitive.
  • Non-raiding players seeking to escape the gear imbalance found in level 60 battlegrounds are met with an even greater gear imbalance in low-level battlegrounds.
  • High-end enchants and arcana were not intended for low-level items.
  • Imbalances due to twinking drive away newer players that get "left behind" compared to twinked alts who tend to group less and solo more.
  • Twinking hyper-inflates the prices of low level BoE items, making them pretty much unreachable for casual players looking to upgrade their gear at the auction house.
  • What's the point of playing a game with no challenges?
Arguments in defense of twinking include
  • Twinking is allowed by game mechanics, and is not considered in any way an exploit.
  • It is a common aspect of most gamers to seek out the best possible equipment for their characters. Twinking is simply another method of character progression, akin to gearing up a max-level character.
  • Players who have earned the gold with which to twink their low-level alts have earned the right to do so. It is a "rich man's game," requiring large sums of money, but everyone who wishes to play the game is free to do so.
this comment is absurd, it basically means 'i have played longer, therefore I have all the right to spoil the game for everyone who doesnt want to spend 4-8 months grinding to 70 just so they can participate in pvp
granted it is possible for a character to earn thousands of gold without leveling past 10, but auction house farming isnt fun and it takes time away from actually playing the game
  • Since honor and reputation aren't really needed at lower levels, it affects the community the least.
  • The battleground faction rewards are far better than any items that you can purchase on the auction house at that level, so most base equipment differences will be equalized if players stay in the same bracket.
  • Twinking speeds up leveling of alts, preventing wasted time re-hashing old content.
most twinks never level, there are a few who twink their characters just so they can quest faster, but if they really want to level as fast as possible they avoid the battlegrounds until higher levels
  • Anything that encourages staying with lower level characters can help population in otherwise low level areas (assuming they aren't exclusively in battlegrounds) as players increasingly run into the level cap.
I'm not a huge fan of speculation or opinion sections, like the one above, in articles, but a talk page isn't any more appropriate a place for them. It's important to keep talk pages restricted to editorial discussion of the article, without them becoming cluttered or completely overloaded with debates about the topic itself.
A solution I've found has worked well elsewhere is to split the debate or speculation into a separate article, such as with Old Gods and Old Gods speculation. Perhaps Twinking debate would be a good article. This keeps the main article NPOV while providing an outlet for the POV discussion.--Aeleas 15:12, 5 January 2007 (EST)
As long as it has a bad ass mark, that the article isnt neutral I'm ok with it. --dotted 15:29, 5 January 2007 (EST)

Twink?

Twinking is a way for very rich players to dominate Battleground's. It is a way for highly developed players to show their skill at playing, but if you're really good at your class, and with some moderate gear, you can beat a twink. Just ask yourself: "What is that classes weaknesses?"

-The above statement is non-sensical. A level 19 twink is unbeatable no matter the skill applied. A twink has no weaknesses. Example: a Hunter is designed to kill a rogue. A casual hunter will never beat a rogue twink because... the rogue cannot be hit. His agility is comparible to a level 35 character. A hunter's kite is limited. When...not if...but when the rogue catches the hunter. The hunter will die in 3 moves. Twinking removes a classes weaknesses. No amount of skill can compensate for this. A casual player beating a twink is comparible to a level 19 beating a level 30 elite mob. It will not happen.

--I disagree. In ALL brackets with ALL gear, if a class is a true counter-class to another, it will beat that class. E.G., a warlock will almost always beat a mage of similar level, just as that same mage will beat a rogue the same level, and the rogue will beat the warlock. I was on a level 28 non-twinked mage yesterday and I went up against a 29 twinked warrior. I successfully kited him to death. If a class is a TRUE counter-class, it will beat its best class no matter of gear. -Iamchidemon

Origins?

Does anyone know why these characters are called "twinks"? I only know the term as gay slang. Is it just an insult that was embraced?

While "twink" is a gay slang term for a male bimbo, it was years ago adopted into paper and pencil RPG cirlces as a term refering to a young male player who cares little for the spirit of the game and just wants to "monty haul" the best gear and skills available, often breaking the game balance and pacing and spoiling the rest of the party's fun while doing so. This term was later adapted into WoW to describe the "twinks" to which this page refer.
There can be some ambiguity to the difference between a "twink" and a "power gamer." A power gamer is typically a player with a lot of experience and a very good understanding of the mechanics of the game, who enjoy making very powerful characters though not necessarily with the intent to use them seriously. Being experienced players, most power gamers are typically respectful of the experience of the other people they are playing with and know what kind of impact a powered character might have on gameplay and are thus careful with their use. On the other hand, a twink is typically someone with little experience with the game (often an early adolescent male) and only a basic understanding of the rules who simply seek powerful characters not for the sake of enjoying working with the rules, but simply for the sake of having powerful characters. These players, typically due to malice or ignorance, show little regard for the experience of other people they are playing with and are content to spoil other players' fun. Another common name for twinks is "munchkins", which as you can imagine was the inspiration for the popular Steve Jackson card game "Munchkin." In my opinion, the internet has made the twink issue worse by providing a layer of anonymnity and physcial distbetween players. Thus, a twink is free to act like a twink without fear of sanction (a twink in a paper and pencil game can be kicked out by the people he plays with, not so with most MMORPGs.) - Fearless Son 04:15, 13 August 2007 (UTC):
I strongly disagree that twinks are not skilled or have luck of experience ("have little experience with the game" as you say). First, you need to realize that it take 1k plus gold to get twink gear. You could not have that much by playing first 19/29 lvl. So that means that twink at least played one of his chars to lvl70, and got flying, most likely epic flying mount by the time he started twink char. Think about that - can you get to lvl70 on pvp server(most ppl interested in creating twinks play on pvp servers, I guess) without getting understanding of straights and weaknesses of different classes? Without learning pvp techniques? Oh, and don't forget, you could not simply go on AH and and spend few grands on gear. Some of the best items are BoP bosses drops, other quest rewards. Not mentioning that it took me more then month to hunt down on AH BoE items I wanted for my twink. And I was checking AH everyday, plus watching trade channel. Have you ever were coming for a specific BoP item that have "low" drop rate from a boss? If not, you missed a lot of fun;) And yes - most twinks do their homework, you don't create twink to play it few times, it meant to be played at lvl you have chosen for quite some time... Not talking about experience twink gets after scoring many thousands kills, compare to few dozens his average opponents on WSG have.
Ah, lets go to "spoiling others fun" part. What could be possibly wrong with me helping my team to win and my opponents team to loose in every possible way I can? Oh, battle ground is not win-win game. Someone have to loose. And don't you think that it would be fair if team that have most experienced players would win? And that is how it works. Plus I do see on WSG lots of players lvl 13-17 range. Do you think they do not know that they going to face players lvl 19, by definition way stronger then they are? They know, and still come to die. And I come to kill. I think we both having some sort of fun. Even "twinks make some items too expansive" to buy for low lvls argument is laughable. That medal got other side - twinks creates market for those low lvls that are selling those items. Plus if you are 19/29 - just wait one more lvl, and blue items will get cheap again for you. Not mentioning that twinks do make market for low lvl herbalist/alchemists. My bags always full of portions, and i use them every time possible...
Last, but not least. We all are not equal even in real life. Some drive Ferraris, and some Toyotas. And I don't think there could possibly be anything wrong with that. If you could not be better then others in game or in real life - there would be no wow game and no inspiration in life.
Hunter19lvlTwink 17:17, 9 October 2007 (UTC)
I was trying to make an explaination of the origin of the term in the classicial context of paper & pencil gaming (where it is highly prejorative,) not making an argument against twinking in WoW. - Fearless Son 01:00, 3 December 2007 (UTC)

I Agree

I totally agree with Hunter19lvlTwinkand there is (*GENERALLY*) a way of telling if they know the game of WoW or not. The answer? Enchants. All the people with x2 fiery are idiots- random proc rate-same with crusader although there are minor reason for crusader and icy... is a cheap person slow-downer- you can't afford Minor Speed Increase on boots/shoes. What you should REALLY have is +15 Agility- 100% +30 Agility all the time.Oh, and a quality line about Ferraris and Toyotas ^^ Pvprules --Well... PvP rules... 16:28, 21 December 2007 (UTC)

Rogue Twinks

Somebody wrote "This is because rogues gain the most from twinking," in the Examples section. This should be elaborated upon. Why do Rogues gain the most from twinking? Andostre 01:58, 10 November 2007 (UTC)

I know they are popular...my guess would be that rogues are a strong class to begin with at level 19 (for example, they already have dual wield) and always have that nasty PvP advantage of stealth. Pale 23:14, 27 December 2007 (UTC)

Rogue Twinking

Several arguments made about twinks- one of them " Level 70's who can't play just mega-gear a low-level. WRONG. I have a twink BUT i can play, and have multiple twinks of multiple servers. Why? Because I enjoy it. I spent MY money how i liked, and i enjoy randomly kicking the asse of some poor loser who IS crummy at WoW. Also some people say that twinks are hardcore gamers... GET A LIFE. I have a twink guild, and to enter you have to be a twink, and you have to have a parrot summoned so that people laugh before I/we massacre them. Cheers. 

Pvprules--Well... PvP rules... 16:19, 21 December 2007 (UTC)

NPOV

SCase, please explain why you think that your version of the text is more NPOV than the current version. When the text says that twinks "exploit the gearing system" and are "primarily for the purpose of easily killing newer players", then it's not really NPOV. gOurra[T҂C] 13:58, 27 September 2008 (UTC)

Gourra, the content prior to your reversion has been proven. If you believe your version is more accurate, please provide us with a source as wikis are used as a neutral ground and we do not care about your personal views. You may dislike the concept of twinking, but that is not what wiki is for. Please refer to the rules and regulations. Further vandalism of this page will result in you being reported as a vandal if you fail to provide a source for your information. User:SCase
SCase, the term "exploit" is a loaded term and is not appropriate. Blizzard do not view it as an exploit, else they would have retroactively prevented it. I should also point out Gourra is an admin, and may know the policies fairly well. For example WW:3RR. Kirkburn  talk  contr 20:47, 27 September 2008 (UTC)
Kirkburn, that is all a matter of your personal opinion. Unless you work for Blizzard, please do not assume that you know what actions they would and would not take for specific things as such. Whether or not Gourra is an admin, admins must also follow the rules and regulations of this place. By putting in their own personal opinions without providing a source is a violation and does not show a good example for others posting. My position still stands as you may not like the concept of twinking, but please keep your personal views out of this place and stop with this edit war. User:SCase 17:04, 27 September 2008 (UTC)
You are kidding, right? Blizzard's position on the topic of twinks is well known, especially to those who have been playing since the game was released. They prevented extreme twinking for the very latest enchants, but the practice of getting higher level gear than normally possible is entirely allowed within the frameworks of the game. It is not exploiting, a term which has a very specific meaning. Your version - [1] - includes that term, plus says it's all about killing newer players. You might not like twinking, but don't let that cloud your view. Kirkburn  talk  contr 21:11, 27 September 2008 (UTC)
Note that I have gone over your contributions to the article, and many of them are decidedly not neutral PoV. With edits like [2] and [3] what are you really expecting? You do not "own" the article, nor do you have final say on what constitutes twinking. That is down to the consensus of the community. Kirkburn  talk  contr 21:25, 27 September 2008 (UTC)
Kirkburn, telling someone something is "well-known" is not a reliable source. Did you know that it was well-known that the world was flat a long while ago? Unless you can prove your position or provide a source, please stop feeding into your own POV and remember that wiki is a neutral ground. Also, please refrain from posting threats in my talk page as your current one will be reported. You too do not own this article and I would refrain from speaking as if you do. User:SCase 17:35, 27 September 2008 (UTC)
Note: SCase has been given a week off. Kirkburn  talk  contr 21:43, 27 September 2008 (UTC)
Retrieved from "http://www.wowwiki.com/Talk:Twink"