They were not technically in-game, therefore not main characters.--20:38, 2 May 2007 (EDT)
- Mmmm... I'd have to say no. He has no established lore prior to his introduction in WoW. --Sky (t · c · w) 16:53, 1 September 2007 (UTC)
Ok.-Airiph 16:55, 1 September 2007 (UTC)
Template intention Edit
Yeah, er, it was a bit of a mistake when I created this template, as I was originally going to make it just WC3 characters, but that was a silly (and somewhat unworkable) restriction. I would say that the best idea for this is that it covers all Warcraft characters with major game roles, and that the name is changed. Thoughts?22:34, 1 September 2007 (UTC)
Was there a reason it was left aligned rather than kept centered? User:Coobra/Sig3 06:54, 16 January 2008 (UTC)
- I was bored, and wanted it to look a little bit more like wikipedia's navboxes. Speaking of which, I need to finish skinning navbox. Sigh. --Sky (t | c | ) 06:57, 16 January 2008 (UTC)
- LOL, well have fun with that then. User:Coobra/Sig3 06:58, 16 January 2008 (UTC)
Teron Gorefiend Edit
Teron Gorefiend, being the only 'notable undead' on the Undead template, playing a major role in the Shadow Council as well as the Second War and numerous events with the Karabor, including his service to Gul'dan, Orgrim Doomhammer, Kil'jaeden, and his recent relation to Illidan all as possibly the most powerful Death Knight, not to mention his exploits stealing artifacts for the portals in Outland and his attempt at stealing the Eye of Dalaran. Furthermore, he seems to strike fear into the hearts of the Undead. There is no dispute here about his renown nor his exploits, he is entwined deeply with the story, so he is definitely a major character. The major issue I see is that it is too hard to categorize him, for he always seems to only be on his own side... He could easily be categorized under Horde (least likely), Illidari (for his appearence in Black Temple), or even Burning Legion (for his service to Kil'jaeden and Gul'dan). Omniferous (talk) 05:53, 18 May 2008 (UTC)
- I added him. Was surprised he had been overlooked. 06:00, 18 May 2008 (UTC)
Sha'tar/Army of the Light Edit
The Sha'tar and their allies seem to be deeply involved with current lore - Sunwell Isle, Shattrath City and so on. I think that there should be a separate line with characters aiding the Sha'tar like: A'Dal, Akama, Voren'thal, Ishanah, Lady Liadrin, M'uru . What do you think of this?Dakovski (talk) 18:35, 14 July 2008 (UTC)
- While Blizzard is definetly edging towards that (since the characters' introduction), I'm reluctant to do that with this template at this time, largely because of the ones you listed, Akama is the only person who's featured in sources other than WoW (not counting the TGC). While they're all certainly significant characters, I would argue that only Akama and possibly Liadrin have much in the way of character development that one would associate with a "main character." That said, there are others on the template who are in a similar situation, so I guess my answer is "not sure."-- (talk · contr) 19:16, 14 July 2008 (UTC)
Chen in Horde section Edit
OK, we've had Chen Stormstout as a character that was helping the Horde in the same manner as Rexxar, and Rexxar is listed behind "Horde". Should we have Chen in Horde section? Severin Andrews 12:14, 15 July 2008 (UTC)
- He's not really a main character in the same way. User:Gourra/Sig2 12:31, 15 July 2008 (UTC)
- I agree. Both this page and the Major characters list need an overhaul. I'll agree to Sen'jin's removal, he appears in only three missions of a demo (though the events it tells are still canonical). Shandris should definetly be on this list as she is featured prominently in WotA, but Garithos, to my knowledge has never been seen outside of TFT. -- (talk · contr) 15:10, 15 July 2008 (UTC)
Maybe split this into two templates - major and important characters. "Important" list would be longer and less restrictive, including characters who are still important, at least for their races - like Sen'jin, Halduron or Garithos - but couldn't be considered major. What about this?
- That would clutter up the pages of major characters even further.
- Anyway, proposed criteria for "main character", each character will have to be examined:
- 1) Appears in multiple sources
- 2) Part of the story is told from their point of view
- C'Thun, I think would not be considered a "main character" because his personal story isn't one that's told a lot and he doesn't feature significantly enough.-- (talk · contr) 20:49, 15 July 2008 (UTC)
- They are responsible for nearly every problem in the Warcraft Universe, but usually do things indirectly or at a distance. There is little 'Hey look at me! Here is my backstory! I did this!' with them, except for C'Thun (who really only appears for a bit) and some in the WotA trilogy.-- 22:14, 15 July 2008 (UTC)
- I pass through human characters from the major characters list to see which suits the criteria:
- Arthas - RoC, TFT, Arthas, WoW
- Medivh - TLG, WC2, WC3
- Lothar - WC1, WC2, ToD
- Uther - WC2, WC3, ToD
- Khadgar - WC2:BDP, TLG, ToD, BtDP
- Jaina - WC3, CoH, WoW
- Aegwynn - TLG, CoH
- Kel'Thuzad - WC3, seperate story about him - "Road to Damnation"
- Varian Wrynn - Comic
- Tirion Fordring - Of Blood and Honor
- Rhonin - DotD, WotA, Night of the Dragon
- Not sure about king Terenas
- I've tweaked a bit with your list if that's all right (revert if you want) Terenas, Antonidas, Danath, maybe on a separate list for major supporting characters? They're quite important and prominent lore-wise (Antonidas was apparently a sleeper hit in terms of popularity). I also quibble with Fordring, but now that I think about it, he is one of first paladins. I'd also approve:
- Turalyon- WC2x, ToD, BtDP
- Here are my two cents. Firstly, if we listed every major character by race, it may take up slightly more space then the existing template, and some races have very few major heroes or major characters. However, there are several characters that do not quite fit into a faction that is listed (e.g akama isn't truly illidari) So this method may help. ANd about which characters should be in the template. Here's an idea. We put a vote on every hero's talk page who may have a place on the template, and we vote to see if they should be on here.Warden Shadowsong (talk) 14:03, 31 July 2008 (UTC)
- Nice idea but that's going to take too long, and just because a character is popular doesn't mean that they're a main character, see the aforementioned Antonidas, and Rommath. Re the races, I think we could order by faction, then by race, though just by race would work, too.-- (talk · contr) 14:11, 31 July 2008 (UTC)
- Do you think that there should only be certain people, like bookkeepers who should be able to make changes to the template, and that they should decide it all? Seeing as you lot have probably the best understanding of characters, you would know best if someone should be on the list or not, and would also not be biased towards popular or against less well know but just as important characters.Warden Shadowsong (talk) 20:17, 31 July 2008 (UTC)
Here's my suggestions, since it's uneditable. Add Tirion Fordring to Alliance. One of the first Paladins, now wields the Ashbringer, Arthas seems to think he's important, leader of the argent crusde, had his own book, etc... Remove Terenas (or add the other kings, which i don't recommend). Remove Aegwyn. Remove Rommath, maybe Halduron too, and Sen'jin. Maybe add Magatha (robably not) and Garrosh and Liadrin. Change dragon aspects to just dragons and add Korialstrasz and maybe Kalecgos, maybe Onyxia too (lets see what the comic does with her first maybe). Change Ancients to Eternals (?) and add Azshara, remove Aviana, Aggmaggan, and the bear brothers. Move Medivh to that section. I'm not married to any of these ideas though, feel free to convince me otherwise.22:45, 1 September 2008 (UTC)
I disagree with adding Tirion to Alliance. Though he does favor Alliance, and he was part of the Alliance prior to helping Eitrigg in Blood and Honor, he is now Highlord of the Argent Crusade; a strictly neutral faction, that takes both Alliance and Horde help (though, I have to admit, a lot of the earlier quests that give Argent Crusade rep are Alliance-only).
Personally, I think we should make a "Neutral" section, then add notable neutral characters to that (such as Tirion Fordring or Darion Mograine; they're not Dragon Aspects, but they're not Horde or Alliance either, so making a new neutral section would make sense).
- A neutral faction section might work, but that depends on how many characters we can add that we can consider "major characters", which is part of our original issue. How many besides Tirion.-- (talk · contr) 21:29, 4 March 2009 (UTC)
- Quite a few of may have a arguement or two in favor of Alliance (one Horde), but lets see: Khadgar, Maiev, Malfurion, Medivh, Rhonin, Garona.
- I'm still in favor of simplifying the lists. Get rid of Nazgrel for instance. 22:27, 4 March 2009 (UTC)
Azshara again Edit
Brann Bronzebeard Edit
I think we should add Brann Bronzebeard to the list. He's got the template on his page, and he apparently was the one who wrote the Warcraft RPG books (WoW-wise, anyways). If writing a great deal of books that are used as citations doesn't make you a main character, I don't know what does. Toran Wildpaw of the Frenzyheart (talk) 02:11, 13 October 2008 (UTC)
- I would disagree because of his late appearance and little involvement in the the overall storyline- though he's had lot's of adventures, he hasn't really done anything lore-making. On the other hand, I'd agree because of the sheer volume of his writings. -- (talk · contr) 03:03, 13 October 2008 (UTC)
I vote Putress be added. Although he was a late character to be added, his actions caused massive ramifications having killed Bolvar, aiding Varimathras in taking UC and obviously building the New Plague. I'd assume he would be a Horde character like how Varimathras is at the moment technically. Blue Ranger (talk) 03:23, 30 November 2008 (UTC)
Garrosh Hellscream Edit
I vote Garrosh Hellscream be added. Not only is he the son of Grom Hellscream, but he is also a major character in the Hero of the Mag'har quest chain, and also the leader of the Warsong Offensive. Toran Wildpaw of the Frenzyheart (talk) 03:31, 30 December 2008 (UTC)
- I was thinking the same, though my reasons for him being added is that his story is expanded from his introduction as a man ashamed of his father's actions and in learning of his father's redemption he takes pride in his family name. His status as lord of the Warsong Offensive is a facter combined with his later attitude that show cases his fury and the fact that his previous sense of shame has prevented him from learning from his father's actions makes him an interesting character. --Sairez (talk) 21:12, 22 February 2009 (UTC)
Of course though, the only people who can edit this template seem to have abandoned its discussion page. I asked for Garrosh to be added right before 2009 came, and I'm only NOW being responded to in February, and by someone who can't edit it. Same's more or less going on with Putress ('cept no one's answered it yet).
Admins, if any of you see this, PLEASE don't abandon this page. I'd like it if you at least CONSIDERED the ideas on here. If it's not good, that's fine, if it is, well then it SHOULD be added here. Toran Wildpaw of the Frenzyheart (talk) 20:11, 25 February 2009 (UTC)
- I'll add Garrosh, but not Putress, and I'd like more opinions on Brann -- (talk · contr) 21:24, 25 February 2009 (UTC)
Alliance Suggestions Edit
Magni held significant importance during the Second and Third Wars and made Ashbringer. Brann fought during the Second War, has befriended nearly every race and plays a vital role in discovering the origins of his brethren. Bolvar ruled Stormwind for several years, helped Varian return to his throne and waged war against the Lich King. Blue Ranger (talk) 01:13, 21 March 2009 (UTC)
Some suggestions... Edit
Much like Blue Ranger before me, I believe Brann Bronzebeard should be on this list. As should the Old Gods - while it can be argued that individually they (Yogg-Saron, C'thun)) do not belong on this list, the Old Gods as a collective whole have had major influences on the development of Azeroth and the mortal races and as of late have been being brought more into the spotlight as major antagonists in the world of Warcraft. They should at least be under Ancients/Eternals. --Nihil Morari (talk) 22:15, 14 April 2009 (UTC)
I can see why admin are having a hard time deciding if Brann should be added. Its mostly because WotLK was Branns first appearence in Video Media and was first mentioned by Murodin in Warcraft III. But enough about that, hes seen in the Secerts of Ulduar, leading an assult on Ulduar and discovering Yogg-Sarons awakened and what not. I vote Brann should be added, I believe he deserves a spot on the Main Character Template. Maybe you could even add High Overlord Saurfang( forgot how to spell his first name, but i'll check the page again later)--Maelstrong 22:45, 14 April 2009 (UTC)
Wasn't I the one who suggested Brann?
- Initially you were, and since then, your proposal had had a corpus of support for a suggestion I think has merit. -- (talk · contr) 13:54, 26 April 2009 (UTC)
If a neutrel section is created Rhonin, Tirion Fordring, Darion Mograine and possibly Khadgar should at least be on there (But I strongly disagree with Khadgar). I also disagree with Brann and Jaina.
shouldnt Varimathras be moved to Burning Legion? On the major characters page hes listed only in Burning Legion and we discover that he was still with the burning legion even after he "joined" sylvanas. Plus he never really did anything that helped the horde at all, the Wrathgate and Battle for Undercity says it all.--Maelstrong 19:56, 15 April 2009 (UTC)
- Let's not discuss the major characters page for now... But yes, I suppose it's fair to move him to Burning Legion.-- (talk · contr) 13:55, 26 April 2009 (UTC)
As another person stated prior, the Azshara on this template points to the region, even though it should point to Azshara herself. Big, furry, and insane (Have a conversation with the homocidal furry!) (Come and stalk me! ...No, wait, please don't.) 03:26, 20 June 2009 (UTC)
- Perhaps the region is the Eternal!
- Or not. Fixed and alphabetized.-- (talk · contr) 17:53, 21 June 2009 (UTC)
Genn Greymane Edit
- I would not say he "starred" in multiple novels. He was certainly mentioned several times.-- (talk · contr) 23:09, 23 August 2009 (UTC)
Yeah, that's true. and he was a little on the side-lines through most of the "Big Events". But he was an original Alliance Leader and will be a Current Leader, plus the main site says they're building him into a main character (at least for the expansion), he's arguably one of the few Alliance characters that's been in the lore for a while that hasn't died or turned evil. Blue Ranger (talk) 23:21, 23 August 2009 (UTC)
- I'd say his inclusion based on faction leaderness and website mention, and his history is enough, I wouldn't oppose it. If we do add him, should it be now, or after Cataclysm is released? It may seem silly to wait, but he isn't in-game. -- (talk · contr) 23:41, 23 August 2009 (UTC)
I'd vote now. Cataclysm readers and fans will be going to be his article frequently, it'll be nice to show people there's a list of high-profile characters who play a role in the universe. Blue Ranger (talk) 20:10, 24 August 2009 (UTC)
Neutral Characters Edit
Lore Characters are one of the most pivitol aspects in Warcraft, however many importent characters choose a Neutral-alighnment over the Alliance and Horde. Tirion Fordring and Darion Mograine are probably good examples of this. So I suggest below the Alliance and Horde section to create a 'Neutral" catagory. This will help Wowwiki readers with reading on lore characters. Blue Ranger (talk) 20:33, 24 August 2009 (UTC)
- I agree on principle, but you've begun to touch upon why the template was locked in the first place- it's rather subjective as to who should be considered a main character and placed on this template. While I'd agree to Tirion Fordring, I wouldn't agree with Darion. Addendum: if we do add a neutral section then several characters would be moved. to reflect more current alignments.-- (talk · contr) 00:35, 25 August 2009 (UTC)
- It is indeed very subjective. For example, while Darion and Alexandros Mograine are not on the list while Kazzak and Rommath, who I would consider far more minor, are. I'd argue too that A'dal, Varok Saurfang, Onyxia, and Bolvar Fordragon may be worthy of inclusion. There's probably also reason enough to add an Old Gods category (which, if we do, should also include Cho'gall). -- Dark T Zeratul (talk) 00:40, November 19, 2009 (UTC)
Tirion Fordring Edit
I think Tirion should be added to the list. From humble beginnings to Lord of the Argent Crusade and facing off the Lich King, Tirion is proving to be a major player in the warcraft universe. I think the only reason he wasn't on here before was because he was neutral but I have a solution to that. Tirion was once apart of the Alliance so we could put him in the Alliance section of the template, much like how we have Cho'gall in the Horde section of the template.
To those who would disagree I have to point out that Warden Maiev Shadowsong was never a member of the Alliance. Though she is a major lore character, her inclusion into the Alliance section of the template is because the Night Elves are apart of the Alliance. --Sairez (Talk)
Gelbin Mekkatorque Edit
- You raise a good point. I'd probably say no, though. He doesn't seem to have done much in-game or in lore.-- (talk · contr) 04:31, February 23, 2010 (UTC)
Must Character Add Edit
I Want this character add. Please this character Add You must.
<<Alliance>> Anduin Wrynn, Gelbin Mekkatorque, Magni Bronzebeard, Tirion Fordring, Verisa windrunner
<<Horde>> Baine Bloodhoof, Dranosh Saurfang, Varok Saurfang, Me'dan, Rokhan, Chen Stormstout
<<Scourge>> Bolvar Fordragon (He is a New Lich King Currently. Former Alliance)
<<Burning Legion>> Varimathras Movement from Horde to Burning Legion Must!
- No to Anduin, Gelbin and Magni. Yes to Tirion and Vereesa.
- No to Baine, Dranosh, Rokhan, and Chen. Maybe to Varok. No to Med'an, because he's not Horde. (Worth opening up discussion for neutral section).
- Not moving Fordragon to reflect the fact that nobody except Tirion is aware of his current status.
- Yes to Varimathras.
- Maybe to the Titans. They haven't done much besides shape Azeroth. -- (talk · contr) 19:16, February 24, 2010 (UTC)
- Random ideas:
- A-Z sorting on the family name would be nice
- adding Muradin and Brann to Alliance (Second War heroes and the world most famous explorer)
- moving Medivh, Maiev Shadowsong, Rhonin and Tirion Fordring from Alliance to Neutral
- moving Gul'dan from Horde to Neutral (he played from himself all along)
- adding Varok Saurfang to Horde, his place in the horde leadership is growing every day
- moving Cho'gall from Horde to Neutral or Twilight Hammer (he left the horde, like Kael'thas)
- moving Ner'zhul from Horde to Neutral or Scourge (no longer serve the horde)
- moving Akama from Illidan's force to Neutral (lore says that Illidan was betrayed by Akama)
- moving Kael'thas from Illidan's force to Burning Legion (lore says that he left Illidan for Kil'jaeden)
- Loremaster A'noob, Arch Druid of the Noobhoof Clan (talk/contribz) 20:01, February 24, 2010 (UTC)
- Random ideas:
- A-Z sorting on family names would make more sense, but there are enough cases of Blizzard sorting according to given name. Not saying we shouldn't do it, just pointing that out.
- Muradin and Brann are already there, just listed by given name.
- Yes, a neutral section of some sort makes more sense for those characters.
- True, but the Horde was Gul'dan's creation.
- Given the fan following that Varok has, I need a little more convincing that he's actually taking a more active role in Horde leadership. Copious use of fan favorites was the reason this page was protected in the first place.
- If we move Cho'gall to neutral, should we try splitting up neutral into "good" and "evil"? I think that putting Cho'gall in exactly the same category as Rhonin and Tirion is a big stretch, because all these characters are neutral in totally different ways.
- Ner'zhul was affiliated with the Horde up until his transformation. This ties into a larger question: should we group characters according to which group they are most associated with, or their most recent affiliation?
- Akama's case is similar to those above.
- I'm starting to see a case for removing Illidan's forces from the list altogether.
- -- (talk · contr) 16:02, February 25, 2010 (UTC)
- I would say the most recent affiliation is the better one, because we tend to keep wowiki up-to-date (bolvar lick king for example), and reading in a template that Kael and akama are aligned with illidan is a bit "lol" when you know BC storyline.
- Like for the Races, I'll work a template out, and people will comment it (more the form than the content)
- Loremaster A'noob, Arch Druid of the Noobhoof Clan (talk/contribz) 16:22, February 25, 2010 (UTC)
- Have a look here.
- Loremaster A'noob, Arch Druid of the Noobhoof Clan (talk/contribz) 10:37, February 26, 2010 (UTC)
- Well, not all of the ancients and dragons are evil, so I don't know about that. You should probably leave all those others at categories on equal footing with Horde, Alliance and Neutral (still dividing neutral into good and evil)- I don't like demoting all the ancients to evil simply because of Azshara. Other than that, I like. The surname alphabeticals look a little weird, but that's just because I'm not used to seeing them. -- (talk · contr) 17:50, February 26, 2010 (UTC)
- Have a look again.
- Loremaster A'noob, Arch Druid of the Noobhoof Clan (talk/contribz) 18:13, February 26, 2010 (UTC)
- Maybe just Neutral with the Symbol of Neutral or Combat is enough?
- I let you choose the sorting you like.
- Loremaster A'noob, Arch Druid of the Noobhoof Clan (talk/contribz) 15:45, February 28, 2010 (UTC)
- Check again :)
- Loremaster A'noob, Arch Druid of the Noobhoof Clan (talk/contribz) 21:50, February 28, 2010 (UTC)
Varok Saurfang Edit
I'm curious as to why he isn't here. Saurfang facts aside, he did lead the Might of Kalimdor and the Kor'kron Guard as well as the Horde forces in assaulting Icecrown Citadel. KWSN (talk) 14:42, March 23, 2010 (UTC)
- I was surprised when I noticed he wasn't on the list. He's been the Horde's second-in-command since Doomhammer became Warchief. He's arguably the most prominent Horde character in WoW, having appeared in more battles and scripted events than any of their racial leaders. Egrem (talk) 16:47, September 1, 2010 (UTC)
Due to the split between Ancient and ancients, the links have to be changed.
Ancient#Ancients (demigod) ==>
Loremaster A'noob, Arch Druid of the Noobhoof Clan (talk/contribz) 14:35, April 9, 2010 (UTC)
I believe that Malfurion Stormrage should be moved to the Neutral section with Tirion and the others. Furion was never apart of the Alliance, I have never seen anything to suggest it. The Night Elves are apart of the Alliance, but nothing has said about Furion himself being in the Alliance. --Sairez (talk)
- Let's wait until Cataclysm comes out, when we can see for sure. -- Dark T Zeratul (talk) 07:35, May 24, 2010 (UTC)
- Beta is on and Malfurion is neutral for the Horde, he can be moved, as he will lead all mortals in Hyjal (like Tirion in ICC)
- Loremaster A'noob, Arch Druid of the Noobhoof Clan (talk/contribz) 09:55, July 17, 2010 (UTC)
I worked out some changes in the template. See here. Changes include:
- a Black dragonflight category, because the sweet family made lots of troubles during the whole story
- malfurion moved to neutral
- Goldrinn added to the Ancients ("source" of the worgen curse, mentionned in books, present in hyjal)
Loremaster A'noob, Arch Druid of the Noobhoof Clan (talk/contribz) 10:06, July 17, 2010 (UTC)
Shouldn't Gul'dan go in the antagonist neutral section? He's tagged as such on his page.
- He hasn't been moved, cause there's still a vote taking place at Talk:Gul'dan#Gul'dan, Horde character?. User:Coobra/Sig4 06:59, September 16, 2010 (UTC)
Garrosh and PandarensEdit
I believe that Aysa Cloudsinger and Ji Firepaw should be added to the Alliance and Horde, respectively. I also think that with Garrosh overthrown, he should be placed in the Hostile section.
- If Aysa Cloudsinger and Ji Firepaw is on. Genn, Gelbin and Baine would be too! End of discustion. Assey Westfall (talk) 22:23, November 15, 2013 (UTC)
- Wouldn't Garrosh be removed from the Horde section? He can't be on 2 places at the same time. Assey Westfall (talk) 14:16, December 9, 2013 (UTC)
Dragon Aspects or Black Dragonflight also,we should add him
Ground rules Edit
It seems there should be some ground rules for placing characters in the template as well as where they should be placed. Assey has brought up some good questions; but rather than inclusion being almost entirely subjective, it seems it would be most helpful if we just had some simple rules.
Garrosh is a good example of this. Presumably he can be placed in both the Horde and Neutral (Combat) sections. We might look at a character and say "when encountered in the game, what is the character's alignment the majority of the time?" In Garrosh's case he would still be considered Horde, then.
Alternatively, we could also recognize that he falls into those two categories. Place him in the Horde, but then we could also place him in the Neutral section with the tag. I'm more for this, as it helps parse out other characters, like Malfurion, who would receive the same treatment but with in his respective Neutral section.
As for what characters to include, only major lore characters should be present. Unfortunately this is a more subjective area - but by default all racial leaders should be here for the playable races. Following that would be major factions and their leaders (ie Burning Legion). Raylan13 (talk) 18:25, December 9, 2013 (UTC)