Wowpedia

We have moved to Warcraft Wiki. Click here for information and the new URL.

READ MORE

Wowpedia
 
mNo edit summary
 
Line 1: Line 1:
  +
{{newbie}}
−
{{Forumheader|WoWWiki general}}
 
−
<!-- Please put your content under this paragraph. Be sure to sign your edits with four tildes ~~~~ -->
 
   
  +
A '''newbie''' (aka '''newb''', '''nub(cake)''', '''noob''', or '''n00b'''), also called a '''scrub''', is a player who is either new to ''World of Warcraft'' or experienced in the game yet ignorant of how to play. Note that while all these terms are derived from the word newbie and have the same literal meaning, their connotations are quite different. Newb commonly speaks of a new player, while a noob, n00b, or nub means someone who thinks he knows everything, criticizing others while doing many of the things listed below and calling people who tell them they're doing something wrong a n00b. Though not doing the things listed below will prevent you from acting like a noob, good humor, admitting to being new, and asking about things you don't know will prevent you from acting like a noob.
−
The [http://db.mmo-champion.com/ MMO-Champion database], also called Sigrie, has a large number of spells, NPCs, quests etc., especially new ones with Cataclysm. I was thinking that it would be a good idea to add it, but I'd like to see if others think the same way. --{{User:Gourra/Sig2}} 12:12, August 12, 2010 (UTC)
 
   
  +
Some examples are "The Paladin bubbled while carrying the flag, NOOB!" and "Even though I've been through Waling Caverns 3 times, I still feel like a noob there."
−
{{Vote/Vote}} <!-- Possible tags: Vote/Vote Vote/Closing Accepted Declined -->
 
−
===Votes===
 
−
<div style="margin-left: 0.5em;">
 
−
;<span style="color:#44CC44;">Yes</span>: <!-- Add: {{vote|Yes|~~ ~~|optional comment}} below (remove space between "~ ~")-->
 
−
{{vote|Yes|sig={{User:Gourra/Sig2}} 12:12, August 12, 2010 (UTC)||Nominated}}
 
−
{{vote|Yes|[[User:Marlamin|Marlamin]] ([[User talk:Marlamin|talk]]) 12:19, August 12, 2010 (UTC)|Heck yes!}}
 
−
{{vote|Yes|[[User:Dinnerbone|Dinnerbone]] ([[User talk:Dinnerbone|talk]]) 12:27, August 12, 2010 (UTC)|Yes}}
 
−
{{vote|Yes|[[User:Ralth|Ralth]] ([[User talk:Ralth|talk]]) 13:03, August 12, 2010 (UTC)|Yes}}
 
−
{{vote|Yes|sig={{User:Zealvurte/Sig2.1}} 13:50, August 12, 2010 (UTC)||It's updated quicker than wowhead, often contains info wowhead misses or gets wrong, and most importantly has a much better parser for variables in tooltips so they can actually make sense.}}
 
−
{{vote|Yes|sig={{User:Adys/Sig}} 14:50, August 12, 2010 (UTC)|Yes}}
 
−
{{vote|Yes|[[User:Xtek|Xtek]] ([[User talk:Xtek|talk]]) 15:40, August 12, 2010 (UTC)|Yes}}
 
−
{{vote|Yes|{{User:Warthok/Sig}} 12:41, August 13, 2010 (UTC)}}
 
−
{{vote|Yes|[[User:Fandyllic|Fandyllic]] 05:27, August 15, 2010 (UTC)|Should replace Allakhazam which as been lame for a long time now.}}
 
−
#'''Yes''' &mdash; As my argument was largely procedural, and a few of issues have cleared up (particularly the fact that Sigrie was only Cataclysm stuff), I'm switching my, er, vote. --[[User:Sky2042|Sky]] ([[User talk:Sky2042|talk]]) 19:23, 14 December 2010 (UTC)
 
−
{{vote|Yes|{{User:Coobra/Sig4}} 22:49, 14 December 2010 (UTC)|It would be nice to have more than 1 external link, now that the others are gone.}}
 
   
  +
==Usage==
−
;<span style="color:#CC4444;">No</span>: <!-- Add: {{vote|No|~~ ~~|optional comment}} below (remove space between "~ ~")-->
 
  +
The terms newb or newbie typically refer to someone new to the game, and thus forgivable of any innocent mistakes they might make. Noob or nub (and their [[Leetspeak]] variations) carry a harsher meaning, that of a player being stupid or ignorant. Beyond a certain character level, players who make mistakes are usually assumed to be noobs, or else new players who have purchased their accounts instead of leveling up themselves. Either way, other players generally regard them with contempt.
−
{{vote|No|sig={{User:Pcj/sig}} 12:24, August 12, 2010 (UTC)||It doesn't [[Wowpedia:EL#Allowed and forbidden links|add any information]] to what is already linked besides that which is datamined.}}
 
−
{{vote|No|sig={{User:Frejya/Sig}}|see below}}
 
−
{{vote|No|[[User:Dark T Zeratul|Dark T Zeratul]] ([[User talk:Dark T Zeratul|talk]]) 16:17, August 13, 2010 (UTC)|Agreeing with Pcj}}
 
−
#:<s>'''No''', per my argument below. Rather procedural in spirit, but that's what should happen for the meantime. --[[User:Sky2042|Sky]] ([[User talk:Sky2042|t]] · [[Special:Contributions/Sky2042|c]]) 16:18, August 13, 2010 (UTC)</s>
 
−
#:<s>'''No''', {{User:Coobra/Sig4}} 19:45, August 13, 2010 (UTC)</s>
 
−
{{vote|No|[[User:Aliok|Aliok]] ([[User talk:Aliok|talk]]) 21:33, September 6, 2010 (UTC)|see below, please}}
 
−
{{vote|No|{{User:Gryphon/Sig}} 01:02, 2 November 2010 (UTC)|Contains no unique information, in fact contains less than other sources with lack of comments, just a meta redirect for other sites.}}
 
−
{{vote|No|sig={{User:Gilmoreja/Sig0}} 15:33, 2 November 2010 (UTC)}}
 
−
{{Vote|No|{{User:A'noob/sig}} 15:38, 2 November 2010 (UTC)|We would fall into DNP}}
 
−
{{Vote|No|[[Image:IconSmall_Deathwing.gif]] '''[[User:Joshmaul|Joshmaul, Loremaster of Chaos]]''' ([[User talk:Joshmaul|Leave a Message]]) 20:05, 2 November 2010 (UTC)|Agreed with A'noob and Pcj}}
 
−
{{vote|No|sig=--[[User:Petrovic|Petrovic]] ([[User talk:Petrovic|talk]]) 21:43, 8 November 2010 (UTC) }}
 
−
{{vote|No|[[User:Yourbuddybill|Yourbuddybill]] ([[User talk:Yourbuddybill|talk]]) 19:11, 14 December 2010 (UTC)| no }}
 
   
  +
Most players are mature enough to recognize that everyone was once a newb, and offer tips and other assistance to inexperienced players. Some, however, have severe disrespect for anyone who they consider a "noob"
−
=== Comments ===
 
−
<!-- Add :your comments <nowiki>--~~~~</nowiki> below -->
 
−
Pretty sure Sigrie shows datamined data along with the in-game data. [[WP:DNP]] in conjunction with [[WP:EL]] mandates that we not link to datamined information. --{{User:Pcj/sig}} 12:15, August 12, 2010 (UTC)
 
−
:Actually, wowhead shows a lot more "datamined" information than mmoc db. {{User:Adys/Sig}} 12:23, August 12, 2010 (UTC)
 
−
::Really? All I see is things like http://db.mmo-champion.com/i/52320/elementium-moebius-band/ versus http://www.wowhead.com/item=52320 and http://db.mmo-champion.com/i/55061/elementium-girdle-of-pain/ versus http://www.wowhead.com/item=55061 --{{User:Pcj/sig}} 12:25, August 12, 2010 (UTC)
 
−
:::Someone linked it in trade chat in orgrimmar, I took a screenshot and entered it manually. {{User:Adys/Sig}} 12:28, August 12, 2010 (UTC)
 
−
:MMO-Champion itself is linked many times and contains much more content not officially announced than the database. This suggests the policies have no issue linking to sites that may contain datamined info, only against actually making an article on the datamined info. I see no issue linking to sigrie for ordinary items. --[[User:Dinnerbone|Dinnerbone]] ([[User talk:Dinnerbone|talk]]) 12:38, August 12, 2010 (UTC)
 
−
::MMO-Champion should only be linked where it discusses non-datamined info, this has actually been enforced several times when datamined stuff was leaked through MMO-C and we had to control the posting of it before it was announced/released (per [[WP:EL#Allowed and forbidden links]]). I am fine with Sigrie when it comes to non-datamined stuff (and it has been pointed out to me that we wouldn't be making pages for datamined stuff anyway so no external links) but I am not sure of the benefits, I haven't seen anything that really sticks out to me over Wowhead besides having more items, spells, etc., particularly the datamined stuff. --{{User:Pcj/sig}} 12:45, August 12, 2010 (UTC)
 
−
:::If it's about the case of it not adding anything that's already in Wowhead's database, then why not remove Thottbot and Allakhazam? What's the benefit from adding external links to those sites? --{{User:Gourra/Sig2}} 12:58, August 12, 2010 (UTC)
 
−
::::I have no idea why we still have Thottbot and Allakhazam (especially Allakhazam), some people seem to like Thottbot over Wowhead though - same as with Sigrie and Wowhead now. But Wowhead (and the rest) have drop information on items, and comments on everything, which are the main things Sigrie is lacking. --{{User:Pcj/sig}} 13:02, August 12, 2010 (UTC)
 
−
::::Thottbot has "progress" and 'conclusion' text for quests; Wowhead most often does not. As well, a second set of comments, different community, more information to draw from, esp when unstubbing. Allakhazam... very rarely has additional information. VERY rarely. No idea about wowDB or MMO-Champion, though what I recall of MMO-Champion, no additional comments on any links, and I apparently haven't found the entry point for item searching there. --[[User:Eirik Ratcatcher|Eirik Ratcatcher]] ([[User talk:Eirik Ratcatcher|talk]]) 17:51, September 8, 2010 (UTC)
 
   
  +
A "noob" described by wowcrendor is someone who is either:
−
:Wowhead datamines too, Sigrie just does it quicker and usually more accurately.
 
  +
A. New to the game
−
:Wowhead, Thott and Alla are alternatives, so there's no argument against offering more alternatives unless they're removed too and we show bias to Wowhead just because some people like it better.
 
  +
B. Bad at the game
−
:Sigrie lacks comments, and that's its only draw back despite having advantages in other areas – as noted in my vote comment.
 
  +
C. Is being called a noob by a noob because the noob is mad at his noobness and retaliates by calling the non-noob a noob.
−
:--{{User:Zealvurte/Sig2.1}} 13:56, August 12, 2010 (UTC)
 
−
::Thottbot and Alla tend to get a lot of private server stuff. If we are looking at adding alternatives then why do we not add WOWDB (I don't care to - I'm just curious)? I would like to replace Alla with Sigrie if anything - I think Alla has outlived its usefulness. --{{User:Pcj/sig}} 14:46, August 12, 2010 (UTC)
 
−
:::I'm with Pcj on this one - in fact, he brought up the wowdb website I was just going to comment on. That was going to be my first point - do we start linking every db site we come across? It seems more helpful to link sites that players are already familiar with, and wowhead by far is the one mentioned the most often on the forums and in the game than even thott (I can't even remember the last time I heard alla mentioned). I heard about the mmodb in passing a while ago and haven't heard anything about it since. I think the point about datamined info still stands - both might contain datamined information, but only mmochamp actively advertises such information. Do we want to link to a db that then links to a site that posts such information? Does it have a significant effect on the number of people who might jump into the wiki who don't know about the DNP policy? Do we want to toe that line seeing as how the wiki is considered an official fan site?[[File:Frejya's Ring.gif|User:Frejya|link=User:Frejya]]<span style="font-family:Garamond;font-size:16px;font-style:italic;font-weight:bold;text-decoration:none;text-transform:none;color:FF0000;background-color:000000;">Frejya</span> 15:04, August 12, 2010 (UTC)
 
−
::::That's another point - Wowhead is an official fan site; MMO-C is not. --{{User:Pcj/sig}} 15:11, August 12, 2010 (UTC)
 
−
:::::MMOC is owned by Curse, Curse is an official fansite, etc.. {{User:Adys/Sig}} 15:16, August 12, 2010 (UTC)
 
−
::::::Hmm, indeed. So why don't we add WOWDB? --{{User:Pcj/sig}} 15:19, August 12, 2010 (UTC)
 
−
:::::First it's "sites that players are already familiar with" and then "official fan site[s]" - what should the criteria be? Only that it's an official fansite? WOWDB is ugly with its screwed-up information about loot tables and mobs/NPCs, which leaves us with only Wowhead. Do you ''really'' only want to see Wowhead on external links? I sure don't. --{{User:Gourra/Sig2}} 15:20, August 12, 2010 (UTC)
 
−
:::::Not sure how valid a point being an official fan site is, was never a concern before. Already pointed out why datamined concerns aren't really valid for any db site over another. As Adys pointed out in IRC, if there's datamined stuff, we don't have a page for it on the wiki, so we don't link to it anyway, so it's a non-issue. Private server stuff is a bad thing though, and i believe it's mostly thott that carries such info, as the others are new/more careful/have removed them when found.
 
−
:::::I've no problem with WoWDB being added too. If we're going to have a vote to see how popular/desirable certain sites are – as has always been the case – as long as they meet the basic criteria in the [[WP:EL]] then there's not really an argument to be had, just a vote. If you want to apply extra cavets to policy and start weighing up good and bad points for eahc site so we only have ~2 linked, then make the policy proposal and apply it across the board. For now, this is merely about if Sigrie meets policy – which it does – and if it has support to exist.
 
−
:::::--{{User:Zealvurte/Sig2.1}} 15:27, August 12, 2010 (UTC)
 
−
I'm not making the case that we should stick only with sites that are fansites. If that were the case, there would be a lot of resources we couldn't reference. I'm asking if there's going to be any impact on wowwiki (as a fansite), either because we're linking to a site that directly links to a site known for datamining or because there might be an increase in the number of well-meaning editors who forego reading the DNP policy and end up making more work over here. I'm not certain what impact it will have - I'm certainly not gazing into a crystal ball - but I think those points should be considered. (Not to mention the 'how many dbs' and player familiarity questions)[[File:Frejya's Ring.gif|User:Frejya|link=User:Frejya]]<span style="font-family:Garamond;font-size:16px;font-style:italic;font-weight:bold;text-decoration:none;text-transform:none;color:FF0000;background-color:000000;">Frejya</span> 16:30, August 12, 2010 (UTC)
 
−
:I left that open in my reply too. I was mostly trying to counter Pcj's arguments which seems to push for a policy change mid-vote at the time. --{{User:Zealvurte/Sig2.1}} 16:59, August 13, 2010 (UTC)
 
−
::Just as an aside (haven't "voted" yet), when was the last time WoWDB's been updated? [http://www.wowdb.com/latestAdditions.aspx] isn't showing anything... --<span style="border-bottom: 1px dotted;cursor:help;" title="WoWWiki bureaucrat">[[User:Kaydeethree|k]]_[[User_talk:Kaydeethree|d]]<sup>[[Special:Contributions/Kaydeethree|3]]</sup></span> 20:41, August 13, 2010 (UTC)
 
−
:::That's one of the things that makes me wonder if Curse is going to keep that updated now that they have MMO-C. --{{User:Pcj/sig}} 20:42, August 13, 2010 (UTC)
 
−
::::Just did a search on 'Halion' ... only two player profiles.. no weapon, no dragon. {{User:Coobra/Sig4}} 20:44, August 13, 2010 (UTC)
 
−
If MMO-C's database allowed for comments, I'd likely switch my vote to yes. Otherwise, I do not see what alternative usefulness it brings to the table. Allakhazam is useful for archival of items and spells, Thottbot has an old base that still fulfills contemporary needs, and WoWHead has a stream-lined UI that also serves the populace's needs. Sigrie only provides information without the ability for users to append their interpretations and/or experience for the benefit of new or unexperienced players. To use a metaphor: Allakhazam is a granny apple, Thottbot is a red apple, and WoWHead is a golden apple - MMO-C is an orange. (Oops, signature.) [[User:Aliok|Aliok]] ([[User talk:Aliok|talk]]) 21:49, September 6, 2010 (UTC)
 
−
:<small>The metaphor made me chuckle. --[[User:Sky2042|Sky]] ([[User talk:Sky2042|t]] · [[Special:Contributions/Sky2042|c]]) 22:48, September 6, 2010 (UTC)</small>
 
   
−
== Shake up? ==
+
==How NOT to be a noob==
  +
The best way not to be a noob is to accept that you will never know ''everything'' there is to know about the game. Always be open to criticism and strive to learn more about game mechanics and the specifics of your class.
   
  +
This is by no means an exhaustive list of noobish behaviors. Most of these offenses are at one point or another committed accidentally by everyone. Some people may act in these ways with a full understanding of what they are doing, performing a twisted form of humor (somewhat related to trolling).
−
I saw it tossed around a little up there: It might be worthwhile to consider the current links we do include in general as well as Sigrie. Throw WoWDB in for shits and giggles, since I do not believe we've had an actual vote on it. The last time we had a full vote (ugh, how I hate that word on a wiki) on the set was a couple of years ago now.
 
   
  +
What makes this a list of newbie behaviors is that newbies exhibit many of them at once, usually out of ignorance either of the offense or its consequences. By reading and understanding this list and the social mores behind it, one can learn how ''not'' to be a noob.
−
I have a sneaking suspicion that a vote would see Thott and Alla both removed (though if we were to keep one, I suspect it would be Alla). I'm personally of the opinion that order should not be determined in this vote, but simply addition (but it's not a strong opinion). I think the fact that Sigrie suffers from what Wowhead suffered so long ago (comment lack) makes it slightly less valuable for the foreseeable future, and so it would be ever-so-slightly more inconvenient to have it placed at the top of the list of elinks, were we to consider order in the immediate rather than intermediate or further-out future. (Here, I am acknowledging that it appears to be a useful/popular db [though I'll note some slight conflict of interest], as evidenced by the 7 or 8 who sprang up ''today'' and promptly decided to set the vote to closing without it even having been 24h... /sigh. Something to go see about changing, because 24 hours is simply too small to decide the discussion is ending.) --[[User:Sky2042|Sky]] ([[User talk:Sky2042|t]] · [[Special:Contributions/Sky2042|c]]) 07:21, August 13, 2010 (UTC)
 
   
  +
===PVE===
−
:The voting hasn't ended, it's 3 days after the final deciding vote has been cast that the decision is in effect.
 
  +
==== Tanks ====
−
:I'm inclined to keep Allakhazam, one reason being that they save the history of items and spells that has been changed, which is a function that no other database have. --{{User:Gourra/Sig2}} 12:18, August 13, 2010 (UTC)
 
  +
*'''Frivolous taunts''': [[Taunt]]ing a mob that is already on the tank has no effect and wastes the cooldown of the taunt.
−
::The fact remains that two of the voters are heavily involved in MMO-C and Sigrie and two are users whose only edit has been to vote here. I wonder if we need a minimum edit requirement on voting... Another point as far as WoWDB, is that still going to be maintained since Curse owns MMO-C (and Sigrie)? --{{User:Pcj/sig}} 12:22, August 13, 2010 (UTC)
 
  +
*'''Healer pulls aggro''': When a damage dealer pulls aggro, that makes the damage dealer a noob. When a healer pulls aggro, that makes his tank a noob. Healing generates significant AOE aggro. A good tank can keep aggro on multiple targets at once, staying ahead of the healer, and pulling aggro off the healer quickly should one mob peel off. Healing only generates aggro based on healing done (overhealing doesn't count). So there are three reasons that a healer might pull aggro:
−
:::I wouldn't mind seeing some sort of minimum edit count put in place, even if such a count knocks me out of voting. Adding to what Pcj pointed out, it seems that two of those 'yes' voters haven't done any edits since '08 and '09, and the amount of editing they've done - minus this vote and their own user pages - is around 10 edits. I'm not sure there's much of a vested interest with that low of a count, personally. My opinions still stand that I've mentioned in the preceding section, but this adds another layer to the onion. [[File:Frejya's Ring.gif|User:Frejya|link=User:Frejya]]<span style="font-family:Garamond;font-size:16px;font-style:italic;font-weight:bold;text-decoration:none;text-transform:none;color:FF0000;background-color:000000;">Frejya</span> 15:31, August 13, 2010 (UTC)
 
  +
**The tank's gear isn't good enough, so the healer has to heal too much too early, and thus pulls aggro (tank's fault).
−
::::I wouldn't suggest to change the rules in the middle of a vote (not that the question being voted on is really a big deal for me) but I think this is a good indication that the voting policy could use some tweaking. Nor would I suggest a high edit count requirement, I just think people need to show some vested interest in the wiki before trying to jump on board in voting. --{{User:Pcj/sig}} 15:34, August 13, 2010 (UTC)
 
  +
**The tank isn't keeping proper aggro on all mobs (tank's fault).
−
:::::I think 10 edits would be a sufficient minimum, myself. I'd also like to see the 3 day barrier to closing set to 7 days: not everyone has the time to contribute in a 3 day period. But then, that's for [[WP:Voting policy]]. --[[User:Sky2042|Sky]] ([[User talk:Sky2042|t]] · [[Special:Contributions/Sky2042|c]]) 16:16, August 13, 2010 (UTC)
 
  +
**A ranged damage dealer pulled aggro and then reduced it after the fact (e.g. by [[Feign Death]] or dying). After moving away from the tank, the mob found that the healer aggro was in the range between 100% and 130% of the tanks aggro, and thus turned on the healer. (ranged damage dealers fault)
−
:::::Obviously that's neither here nor there as it relates to this particular vote :P If it did come down to a vote pertaining to edit count, I'd suggest at least 100 myself, which is really a drop in the bucket compared to what some of you guys have. But I agree - changes to that should take place at another time and not in the middle of this vote. [[File:Frejya's Ring.gif|User:Frejya|link=User:Frejya]]<span style="font-family:Garamond;font-size:16px;font-style:italic;font-weight:bold;text-decoration:none;text-transform:none;color:FF0000;background-color:000000;">Frejya</span> 16:21, August 13, 2010 (UTC)
 
  +
**In any case where the healer pulls aggro, some healing classes can quickly use an aggro reducing ability (e.g. [[Fade]]). If they don't, their death may actually be their own fault.
−
::::::No, 10 edits is what I was thinking myself. We don't want to block new people from voting; their opinions may be valuable. We just don't want people to simply vote and leave. That reeks of [[Wikipedia:WP:MEAT#Meatpuppetry|meatpuppetry]]. --{{User:Pcj/sig}} 16:30, August 13, 2010 (UTC)
 
−
:::Gourra, you missed the point. It's rather steam-rollish (rude, even) to say "we're going to do this with so few involved, with 2 of those with significant conflict of interest and two of the users a single edit to their name, on this page, when this is a change which will affect tens of '''thousands''' of pages" (a significant portion of the wiki). This should be a vote which is open for a number of days more than 4. Period. If you choose to say "by policy", I'm simply going to say "that's the letter and certainly '''not''' the spirit" of the policy. --[[User:Sky2042|Sky]] ([[User talk:Sky2042|t]] · [[Special:Contributions/Sky2042|c]]) 16:16, August 13, 2010 (UTC)
 
−
:Back on the "Shake up" topic, I'm actually in favor of leaving Thottbot and Allakhazam, simply because if you look at Wowhead you'll notice that almost every page says "added in patch 1.11.1." Thottbott and Allakhazam have been around a lot longer and contain a lot of very important information on the game before that patch, which was a good two years worth of content. It's especially helpful when trying to find information for NPCs, spells, and talents that were removed before that patch, which essentially don't exist on Wowhead. -- [[User:Dark T Zeratul|Dark T Zeratul]] ([[User talk:Dark T Zeratul|talk]]) 16:23, August 13, 2010 (UTC)
 
−
::Do we really need both, though? Are there explicit benefits to having both? I.e. does Alla have something Thott doesn't (specifically related to that time period), and vice versa? --[[User:Sky2042|Sky]] ([[User talk:Sky2042|t]] · [[Special:Contributions/Sky2042|c]]) 16:28, August 13, 2010 (UTC)
 
−
:::Alla does have the change history stuff Gourra indicated; I'm not really sure how useful that is for day to day usage. Thott is possibly the least useful, though some people like it - it also has a lot of private server stuff which is a negative point for it. --{{User:Pcj/sig}} 16:32, August 13, 2010 (UTC)
 
−
:Not sure where i fit in comments on the type of users voting, but in the spirit of being open and honest: I work at mmoc, and i had a small hand in helping to create Sigrie. You likely know my adversion to being involved in policy on the wiki anymore, so i'm merely defending Sigrie against anything i believe to be untrue, policy abuse, and because i believe it adds value to the wiki and it's readers despite it's early stages.
 
−
:Having said all that, i generally agree that the policy needs a change and most of the suggestions made above seem fair.
 
−
:--{{User:Zealvurte/Sig2.1}} 17:12, August 13, 2010 (UTC)
 
−
::The conflict of interest thing isn't really a big deal, you are certainly allowed to champion your own horse in this race, and you and Adys have been good contributors to WoWWiki in the past. I'm more concerned with the new users than anything. --{{User:Pcj/sig}} 17:20, August 13, 2010 (UTC)
 
   
  +
*'''Charging into a pulled encounter''': Using [[Charge]] gives Warrior initial Rage, which greatly helps initial aggro buildup. In some situations though, crowd control or nearby mobs makes charging a suicide venture. Constant, irrational uses of charge leads to wipes and is a classic sign of a noob.
−
== What does Sigrie add? ==
 
−
It seems to me the only benefit of Sigrie is that it updates faster than Wowhead. Further, the fact that they predominantly source their data from datamining has been countered by the fact that the external link will only show on pages that exist on the wiki. I am failing to see the value-add presented by Sigrie. [[WP:EL#Allowed_and_forbidden_links|Policy]] specifically says "If the website linked contains only information already present on the wiki (or you need to pay to access the extra content), the link should not be present." Since Sigrie does not support comments, I do not see any information which would not duplicate that which is on the wiki. Sigrie may be a good source from which to base yet-uncreated pages, but not a terribly good source for additional information of things which already exist on the wiki. --{{User:Pcj/sig}} 16:26, August 13, 2010 (UTC)
 
−
:Dang it, Pcj, I was just going to say that. It seems the argument has come full circle back to your initial point, which hasn't really been addressed: seeing as how we have thott, alla, and wowhead, what benefits do we gain from adding another db that would merit thousands of edits? [[File:Frejya's Ring.gif|User:Frejya|link=User:Frejya]]<span style="font-family:Garamond;font-size:16px;font-style:italic;font-weight:bold;text-decoration:none;text-transform:none;color:FF0000;background-color:000000;">Frejya</span> 16:29, August 13, 2010 (UTC)
 
−
::<small>Procedural note: It only requires 15 or so edits to the [[:Category:External link templates|family of external links templates]]. --[[User:Sky2042|Sky]] ([[User talk:Sky2042|t]] · [[Special:Contributions/Sky2042|c]]) 16:30, August 13, 2010 (UTC)</small>
 
−
::: I just meant thousands of pages would be affected :P Should have been clearer, but the question still stands. [[File:Frejya's Ring.gif|User:Frejya|link=User:Frejya]]<span style="font-family:Garamond;font-size:16px;font-style:italic;font-weight:bold;text-decoration:none;text-transform:none;color:FF0000;background-color:000000;">Frejya</span> 16:37, August 13, 2010 (UTC)
 
−
::Except that i did address them... The big point about accuracy seems to be going ignored. The wiki also does not contain alot of the spell data for effect triggers and such, which all databases included and do often contain important additions to effects which are not described in the tooltips themselves, so saying any db doesn't add more than what the wiki has is untrue. --{{User:Zealvurte/Sig2.1}} 17:07, August 13, 2010 (UTC)
 
−
:::Like I said, the external links won't show on pages unless they're already on the wiki. So unless you are saying WoWWiki is inaccurate, I don't believe accuracy is a good reason to have Sigrie. --{{User:Pcj/sig}} 17:12, August 13, 2010 (UTC)
 
−
::::Sigrie lists subzones of zones. Not a big thing, but Wowhead doesn't do this. To me the argument isn't what does Sigrie do better than Wowhead, but what Sigrie does better than Thott or Alla. Sigrie shouldn't be added, it should replace something that should have been removed awhile ago. --[[Image:gengar orange 22x22.png]]&nbsp;[[User:Fandyllic|Fandyllic]] <small>([[User talk:Fandyllic|talk]] &middot; [[Special:Contributions/Fandyllic|contribs]])</small> 9:55 AM PST 2 Dec 2010
 
   
  +
*'''Acting like a damage dealer''': A tank's job is not dealing damage to a mob, it is mitigating damage from the mob. Not wearing a shield drastically reduces damage mitigation. Berserker stance reduces both aggro generation and damage mitigation. Very high skilled warrior tanks can (and sometimes must) stance-dance, staying in any other stance but Defensive Stance for extended periods of time equals acting like a noob.
−
==Sigrie accuracy and ID differences==
 
−
How is this accurate? I went over and compared both wowhead and sig and just pulled the very first Death Knight ability up. This is what happened: http://www.wowhead.com/spell=48266 as opposed to http://db.mmo-champion.com/s/48263/blood-presence/#tab=trainedspell_spell (For that matter, look at all the Presences)[[File:Frejya's Ring.gif|User:Frejya|link=User:Frejya]]<span style="font-family:Garamond;font-size:16px;font-style:italic;font-weight:bold;text-decoration:none;text-transform:none;color:FF0000;background-color:000000;">Frejya</span> 17:26, August 13, 2010 (UTC)
 
−
:Quick guess from my limited knowledge of Death knight Cataclysm changes: Sigrie already references Cataclysm spell effects. See http://www.wowhead.com/spell=48263 --{{User:Pcj/sig}} 17:31, August 13, 2010 (UTC)
 
−
::That's what it looks like to me, yeah. Note that they're actually pulling different spell IDs, too. Using the same spell ID in both URLs gives me Frost Presence on Wowhead instead of Blood Presence, and with the same text as MMO's Blood Presence entry. -- [[User:Dark T Zeratul|Dark T Zeratul]] ([[User talk:Dark T Zeratul|talk]]) 17:32, August 13, 2010 (UTC)
 
−
You're comparing different IDs and comparing current (wh) to cata (sigrie). There's nothing wrong except the links. --{{User:Zealvurte/Sig2.1}} 17:36, August 13, 2010 (UTC)
 
−
:So how is the average user supposed to tell the difference? The plus with wowhead is that they actually split the database to 'live' and 'expansion', thereby avoiding any of that confusion. They 'merge' later when the expansion is released. I don't see sig making a similar distinction and, lacking a comments section, it looks like a user could get lost. In my above example I didn't seek out an error - all I did was use the handy drop-down menus on the front page and navigate my way to the spell list of Death Knights (Blood). I'm not saying the db is useless - don't get me wrong - I'm just addressing the point of accuracy that's been brought up. [[File:Frejya's Ring.gif|User:Frejya|link=User:Frejya]]<span style="font-family:Garamond;font-size:16px;font-style:italic;font-weight:bold;text-decoration:none;text-transform:none;color:FF0000;background-color:000000;">Frejya</span> 17:45, August 13, 2010 (UTC)
 
−
::Another point is that this means Sigrie is using a different ID for the spells until Cataclysm hits. This means the elinks template would require an additional parameter. --{{User:Pcj/sig}} 17:52, August 13, 2010 (UTC)
 
−
:::Technically, it means that Blizzard is taking the old Frost Presence and putting the new Blood Presence into its spell ID, and vice-versa. -- [[User:Dark T Zeratul|Dark T Zeratul]] ([[User talk:Dark T Zeratul|talk]]) 18:02, August 13, 2010 (UTC)
 
−
::::Makes sense since Blizzard considers Blood to be the main death knight tanking tree in Cataclysm, thus switching the tanking benefits from Frost Presence to Blood Presence. I guess that's why they kept the "tanking" Presence in the same ID. --{{User:Gourra/Sig2}} 18:08, August 13, 2010 (UTC)
 
−
::Right now, the templates already is in need of an extra parameter to specify to use the wowhead's cata db already, which they don't, and as such, it's misleading/useless.
 
−
::The wiki operates on different data sets at the same time, so i would think having Sigrie that only displays the most up-to-date is just as valid as having thott, alla, and wowhead only showing live, regardless as to if that is accurate to the wiki page, and needing to add a argument to tell the templates to use cata for wowhead. Basically, it's not an issue specific to Sigrie, but a problem with the template and how the wiki uses different data sets. --{{User:Zealvurte/Sig2.1}} 18:15, August 13, 2010 (UTC)
 
−
:::Not using Wowhead's cata flag is less useless than linking to the wrong Cataclysm spell on Sigrie. Meaning we would have to actively change current uses of the template to be sure to reference the correct spell on Sigrie whereas current links to Wowhead, Thott, and Alla are at least current for the current live patch without further editing them. --{{User:Pcj/sig}} 18:19, August 13, 2010 (UTC)
 
−
::::Less useless than linking to thinks that don't exist? :S I'm refering to new cata-only content here. As i said, different data sets at once on wowwiki, so there's pluses and minuses to both sides. With the template updated to support an argument for it, wowhead would surely be the best implementation, where as the others including sigrie would be playing second fiddle as they're only relevent to one data set or the other. --{{User:Zealvurte/Sig2.1}} 18:27, August 13, 2010 (UTC)
 
−
:::::Well, I meant particularly in the case of the DK spells referenced above, where the ID of the Cataclysm spell specifically references another ability pre-Cata. --{{User:Pcj/sig}} 18:52, August 13, 2010 (UTC)
 
−
::::::Yeah, for current content Sigrie would be displaying misleading cata info, but then it would be helpful to have the elinks for the cata changes talked about in the page too. As this is an example of the fact spells can swap their IDs -- from the perspective of the wiki --, it suggests that providing a second ID in the argument rather than a flag would probably be the best way to do it. Sadly, adding and removing them as time goes on makes that problematic.
 
−
::::::It does present some dilemas. When there's no PTR/Beta active, Sigrie should be shown with the rest, but when there is, it shouldn't. There may be an argument to not include Sigrie in that, as it would require manual editing of templates everytime there is one. While we could simply have Sigrie only show for the PTR and expansion arguments, there's also a problem in that it the expansion builds tend to superseed PTRs so it may not even be relevent to the PTR anymore too.
 
−
::::::Also, wowhead names their subdomains differently, so the template would have to be updated to change the subdomain each new expansion -- PTR remains the same afaik --, so that's not ideal of them either.
 
−
::::::Hopefully someone can think of a way to work around those problems, cos i do believe the added information would be helpful. Perhaps simply linking to all version for wowhead and sigrie, and putting labels/disclaimers next to them, despite current state may be the best choice.
 
−
::::::--{{User:Zealvurte/Sig2.1}} 19:26, August 13, 2010 (UTC)
 
−
:::::::Yeah, Wowhead segregates PTR info to ptr.wowhead.com, updating the template every expansion isn't that big of a deal though, less work than editing IDs on pages individually for Sigrie for sure. --{{User:Pcj/sig}} 19:31, August 13, 2010 (UTC)
 
−
:::::::The <nowiki>{{Elinks-item/wotlk}}</nowiki> template and other WotLK beta templates comes to mind, if we're going to add external links to Cataclysm content. --{{User:Gourra/Sig2}} 19:38, August 13, 2010 (UTC)
 
−
:::::::It wouldn't be for sigrie alone though, as wowhead would need the IDs too. Both would require editing the templates and all pages that use them each time an expansion db is added, and again when it goes live to remove them. Sigrie specifically would require the same for PTRs too, while wowhead would only need the "all pages that use them" part for PTRs. There's room within those edits to cover Sigrie's special case of needing to be removed from current/PTR and added to PTR/expansion outputs, so that's not too big of an issue. In total though, that seems like a ton of work, that is easy to say would be unreasonable, so i can only think of using the label/disclaimer idea. That way the template only needs to be updated when wowhead changes the expansion subdomain, use a flag across all pages for PTR and expansions, and only provide extra IDs when needed. That would require only changing a small subset of pages, and the flags can be disabled in the template alone until it needs to be active again. --{{User:Zealvurte/Sig2.1}} 19:44, August 13, 2010 (UTC)
 
−
::::::::Having seperate templates wouldn't really work in order to have Sigrie always display with a disclaimer/to prevent duplicated entries for Sigrie, so not sure about that<s>, despite it actually being better for handling updates</s>. I take that back, it would require all pages to have that those templates, so it would be worse. I'm against that idea in light of it solving nothing, but just shifting it around. --{{User:Zealvurte/Sig2.1}} 19:47, August 13, 2010 (UTC)
 
   
  +
*'''Pulling early''': Often newbie warriors are eager to pull before their rage runs out. Doing so when the casters are out of mana easily results in a wipe. Damage dealers also sometimes suffer from this foible when they are pulling.
−
==Revival==
 
  +
−
Since now Thottbot and Allakhazam are gone on the external links, and Cataclysm is live, would ''now'' be a good idea to add Sigrie? --{{User:Gourra/Sig2}} 15:52, 14 December 2010 (UTC)
 
  +
*'''One mob at a time''': By level 60, pulls of several mobs at a time are common, even after crowd control. An off-tank can reduce the load somewhat, but a tank that can't hold aggro on multiple mobs at once is a noob.
−
:Sigrie needs to remove the bogus WOWDB links from their NPC pages and fix the Armory links on other pages. You might want to start a new vote with updated information and a bigger, better pros list. --[[Image:gengar orange 22x22.png]]&nbsp;[[User:Fandyllic|Fandyllic]] <small>([[User talk:Fandyllic|talk]] &middot; [[Special:Contributions/Fandyllic|contribs]])</small> 11:19 AM PST 14 Dec 2010
 
  +
−
::Personally at this point, with only 1 external link right now, and sigrie the only good alternative, I say we cancel the vote and add it. {{User:Coobra/Sig4}} 22:46, 14 December 2010 (UTC)
 
  +
*'''Ignoring mana bars''' Your healer can't heal you if they don't have any mana. Allow them time to drink after a fight. On a routine pull with a healer you can tell is competent, it's usually safe to pull if they have over half their mana. On a boss, unless everyone tremendously outgears the instance, they need a full bar.
−
:::Technically there are 2 external links (armory and wowhead) on items. I would like to see comment functionality, at least, on Sigrie. I don't see any reason to add it otherwise. --{{User:Pcj/sig}} 22:49, 14 December 2010 (UTC)
 
  +
−
::::Hmm, for when wowhead is down for maintenance. =P {{User:Coobra/Sig4}} 23:01, 14 December 2010 (UTC)
 
  +
*'''Tunnel vision'''* If adds arrive, it might be the tank's fault (if they chose to tank near a [[pat]] or didn't anticipate mobs that fear) or it might be the DPS's fault (if they had a pet on aggressive or position themselves without paying attention). But in either case, the tank needs to be prepared to handle the adds. The tank who blindly tanks his current target without noticing the giant skeleton pulverizing everyone else is an utter noob.
−
:::::But then what does Sigrie add? All it has is the item tooltip and DE data which we (should) have on the item page already. --{{User:Pcj/sig}} 23:02, 14 December 2010 (UTC)
 
  +
  +
*When a tank attacks an incapacitated opponent or pacified enemy '''[Seeing the Incapacitation/Pacifation itself and it's effect on mob in question]''' Example:
  +
  +
''"Rogue" casts [[Sap]] at "Humanoid Enemy".''
  +
''"Humanoid Enemy" is affected by "Rogue"'s [[Sap]].''
  +
''"Tank"'s melee swing hits "Humanoid Enemy" for X damage.''
  +
''"Rogue"'s [[Sap]] dissipatates from "Humanoid Enemy".''
  +
  +
==== Healers ====
  +
*'''Not healing''': Similar to tanks, healers have a very specific task which they must coutinuously perform at all times. The typical wipe caused by a noob healer happens as follows: During the first few seconds of a pull, nothing at all seems to happen. The noob healer starts to dps or just stops paying attention. At that point, the tank takes a damage spike. When the noob healer notices the tanks health at 30%, he starts to cast the biggest slow heal. 0.5 seconds before the end of the cast time the tank dies, 5 seconds later the group.
  +
  +
*'''DPSing''': Healers who DPS in instances come in two varieties: experienced players who have time and mana to spare, and noobs who merely ''think'' that they do. The latter group is far more common.
  +
  +
*'''Fast OOM''': Sometimes this is a matter of gear or level. However, healers who go oom early in a fight are usually noobs who aren't watching their mana efficiency.
  +
  +
*'''Squander heals''': Usually [[AoE]] healing spells are very expensive mana-wise, ergo they should not be used to heal 1-2 people simply because the healer doesn't want to switch target.
  +
  +
*'''Fearing irrationally''': At the slightest sign of aggro, noob priests love to use [[Psychic Scream]] instead of waiting for the tank/off-tank to reestablish aggro. Besides making the mob untankable for the duration of the fear, feared mobs love to run into nearby groups of other mobs, pulling them and resulting in a wipe.
  +
  +
However, in certain situations (namely Heroic Instances and Raids), a single hit from a mob can easily kill a healer due to their lack in stamina and armor, which leads to a wipe anyways. In these situations, Psychic Scream can save the healer and the group.
  +
  +
==== Damage Dealers ====
  +
*'''Pulling aggro''': For damage dealers, pulling aggro is the cardinal mistake they can commit, and repeatedly pulling aggro is noobish behavior. Every damage dealer can pull aggro from any similarly geared tank, pulling aggro as a damage dealer is nothing to be proud of. Noobs though are usually obsessed with their damage meters, and use their high-damage attacks too early in a fight (or on the wrong targets) in an attempt to maximize their apparent performance. This makes them feel good, especially when the tanks or healers complain. A noob damage dealer may also call the tank a noob despite gaining aggro through their own fault. Sometimes, a well-intentioned newb even tries to peel adds off a tank, thinking they are helping the healer by reducing the tank's incoming damage. But the healer's job is easiest when all mobs are on the tank, and [[rage]]-based tanks need to take hits so they can generate rage and thus create more threat, and Paladin tanks must take hits to gain threat through Retribution Aura, or dodge/parry/block hits in order to gain mana through Blessing of Sanctuary. When damage dealers peel, the tank must focus their attacks on the peeled mob, reducing their threat generation on the others. This, combined with the need for excessive healing on the damage dealer, may causes the healer to take aggro, leading to a wipe. Also, many damage dealers have the option of using threat reduction abilities, talents, or enchants, but refuse to use them as it would lower their damage output. If they are not mindful of their threat, and draw aggro as a result, they often use the phrase "Tank better" or something similar as an excuse.
  +
  +
*'''Breaking crowd control''': This is just like pulling aggro, except it's adding a mob who wasn't hurting anyone to the fight, which means that either the mob has to be re-CCed or the main tank has to stop building aggro on the main assist target to grab the CC'd mob back. AOE is a common source here.
  +
  +
*'''[[DOT]]ing a crowd controlled mob''': A refinement of the "breaking CC" noob move, this additionally makes the mob immune to CC for some time. Sometimes these things happen, but more than once in an instance is a strong sign of a noob.
  +
  +
*'''Not crowd-controlling (or re-applying CC)''': Crowd control is vital to many pulls. Even when it feels slower to fight mobs one at a time, experience teaches that that is the fastest way to finish. Noobs, however, either don't want to CC or don't care. Some also don't like to stop DPS to re-apply a crowd control effect because it lowers their position on the [[damage meter]]s-- a classic sign of hapless noobery.
  +
  +
*'''Running away when getting aggro''': Because of the way that melee damage swings are timed, this doesn't reduce damage taken at all. But it ''does'' make it much harder and slower for a tank to re-establish aggro. In effect, running creates chaos for the group without gaining anything at all. Experienced players either use an aggro-reducing ability (feint, cower, fade, vanish, feign death, ice block or bubble) or stand still and wait for the tank to come over, or run *toward* the tank of their own accord. The exception here is kiting a mob on purpose — this is almost always planned in advance. Healers are also prone to this kind of newbism.
  +
  +
*'''Frivolous AOE''': Not only does this help to put the noob to the bottom of the damage meters, but using AOE on a single target without good reason is a great way to waste mana and break crowd control. A fearsome tool in the noob arsenal.
  +
  +
*'''Spamming a DOT''': Most DOTs don't stack with themselves, but that doesn't stop a newbie from blowing his mana pool applying and re-applying it before the DOT has expired.
  +
  +
*'''Pulling adds''': Tab-targeting, fear and knock-back mean that even experienced players sometimes pull adds. However, multiple repeat offenses in the same instance gradually suggest that noobidity, rather than clumsiness, are at fault.
  +
  +
*'''Spreading DPS''': This includes frivolous use of AOE, but also simply attacking a mob that has is not marked as the current target. Not only does this make it much more likely to pull aggro (because the tank is focused on another target), but it also stretches out the fight unnecessarily.
  +
  +
*'''Hybrids refusing to heal when needed''': If the main healer dies or is otherwise incapacitated, any damage dealers with healing abilities (Balance druid in caster form, Retribution Paladin, Enhancement or Elemental Shaman) may be expected to pick up healing duties. In certain encounters, Hybrids may be expected to watch their own health and keep themselves alive (in order to keep main healers' attention on tanks). Noob Hybrid DPS refuse to stop DPSing to cast a heal on themselves, because it lowers their position on the damage meters. These hybrids often make other noob mistakes such as standing in enemy AoE and expecting a healer to heal them through it.
  +
  +
==== Loot ====
  +
*'''Ninja looting''': [[Loot ninja]]s are among the most hated players, newbies should try to avoid this accusation by all means. Most loot ninjas are real villains who know very well about what they're doing and do it without remorse, but newbies may not, and may not realize they might have problems grouping again in the future. Therefore, newbies are well advised to carefully compare the drop with their current gear (see "Replacing epic with epics"), and also try to understand why a certain item may be better suited to another class than their own.
  +
  +
*'''Looting gear you can't use''': This most extreme form of ninja looting is a quick and sure method to ruin one's reputation. Noobs don't realize completely what they can and can't use. Some don't understand what Bind on Pickup means, and intend to sell or give items to an alt. Some simply don't understand itemization, as a warrior who rolls on plate with int, mp5 and spellpower (meant for Holy Paladins).
  +
  +
*'''Looting gear you shouldn't use''': Every class has statistics that provide a real but very minor benefit, e.g. armor penetration for Retribution paladins (who do largely magical damage that isn't affected by armor). There's almost always another class who gets an enormous benefit from that statistic, e.g. warriors and cat druids. You will do better with a well-itemized green. Let them have it.
  +
  +
*'''Not looting quest items''': Everyone does this, even the most experienced player. Newbies just do it a lot more often.
  +
  +
*'''"Replacing epics with epics"''': Now, everyone will replace gear, but this specifically refers to replacing one piece of gear with another piece of the same item level with similar stats. For example, many believe that gear from 10-man Naxxramas is better than Exalted rep gear, Emblem of Heroism gear, Heroic end-boss gear, and craftable epics, when they are in fact the same item level and have similar stats. Another example would be replacing gear from 25-man Kel'thuzad or 25-man Malygos with gear from 10-man Ulduar. If another player needs the upgrade more than you do, such as replacing a rare or uncommon item, then it would be polite (plus better for the group or raid overall) if you let them have it.
  +
  +
*'''Blindly chasing blues and purples''': Properly itemized rare (blue) gear is indeed better than uncommon (green) gear of the same or lower item level, and epics (purple) are likewise better than rares. But only if they actually fit your class. It's astonishingly common to see newbies wearing, for example, epic crafted Frost Resistance gear, because that gear is a) PURPLE and b) cheap as epics go. But with the possible exception of a newly 80 bear tank, it's utterly worthless for every class.
  +
  +
==== Between pulls ====
  +
*'''Refusing to buff''': Buffs typically cost only mana, and should always be up. Even feral druids can shift out, rebuff, and shift back. Buffs that require a reagent are still usually well worth it and are expected of the player.
  +
  +
*'''Extended AFKs''': There are often legitimate reasons to go AFK. Repeated or extended AFK's are a classic sign of noobishness. They keep the rest of the party waiting and often are accompanied by incompetent play followed by a DC.
  +
  +
*'''DCing''': Everyone is disconnected from time to time. However, a player who mysteriously and permanently DCs after a dispute, when a piece of loot they want doesn't drop or after some other kind of disappointment is quite possibly a noob. Players who are merely rude simply leave group and port to a city. Newbies DC thinking they have fooled someone.
  +
  +
*'''Ignoring chat''': A very common sign of a noob is a player who very obviously has not read chat (strategies, calls for questions, announcements that people should turn in quests, etc) and then causes the whole group to suffer the consequences, typically a wipe.
  +
  +
*'''Spamming damage meters''': Damage meters are sometimes useful to determine effectiveness. Newbies, however, take them as Holy Writ, and spam them at every opportunity. In addition to being annoying and often inaccurate, the spam also hides legitimate chat. It is also very common for a noob to continuously ask others to post Damage Meter readings when they are in the top. Obviously people asking "DMGMETERS?" while being on top of damage done are running some sort of meter themselves and just want to brag.
  +
  +
===Raiding===
  +
Noob raiders suffer from all the foibles of the PVE noob, with some additional outrages all their own.
  +
  +
*'''Failing to meet required caps for chosen class/role''': This is applicable in all PVE, but mandatory in heroics / raiding. A noob tank stacks stamina before he caps his defense rating (the most important trait of a raid tank is to be uncrittable, because some bosses can one-shot even the best geared tank with a crit). Much more often, however, the noob damage dealer shows his ignorance by stacking crit rating and bragging about his crit percentage before he is hit-capped (typically damage dealers need to cap or nearly cap their hit rating before focusing on crit rating). New players should find out what their class/spec's stat balancing priorities are and gear accordingly, rather than just picking stats that seem fun or make big numbers.
  +
  +
*'''Not bringing keys / resist gear / consumables / etc''': Raiders are expected to be prepared. Plenty of non-noobs don't have these items, but the quintessential noob leaves them in the bank when they are required, week in and week out.
  +
  +
*'''Not repairing or bringing mats before a raid''': Despite constant entreaties to repair before raids, noobs defiantly walk into a raid with half-fixed gear and, once there, demand an expensive bot to be burned just for them. Similarly, experienced players know about how much reagents they need for a raid, and bring even more. Noobs don't and run out.
  +
  +
*'''Not having required mods''': Raiders work in guilds, most of which demand specific mods like CT RaidAssist, threat meters, and boss-specific mods. Not having these mods is very rare, but marks the raider as a noob if it happens.
  +
  +
*'''Not knowing an encounter''': Of course this happens to everyone, because at one point or another everyone has been new to an instance. Noobs try to bluff their way through and wipe the raid.
  +
  +
===PVP===
  +
*'''Botting BGs''': This is done by some experienced players to farm rep or honor, but is strongly frowned upon. Noobs often do this, and can't understand why it's a problem. Botting in this sense means remaining largely AFK, while occasionally moving or jumping to avoid being flagged AFK and kicked out of the BG altogether. You share in the honor and reputation rewards without contributing anything, and taking up a slot in the battleground that could have been filled by a participating player. However now people can be reported AFK if it looks like they're doing nothing and these people will not get a cut of the honor, rep or medals if he is flagged AFK. Blizzard is also claiming that the honor, medals, honor rewards are now being stripped and warnings/suspensions being handed out to people who are habitual botters. But that does not mean that these people are no longer noobs.
  +
  +
*'''Ganking lowbies''': Riding around as a 70-80, often with friends, and killing players who you cannot gain honor from, is usually taken as a sign that you cannot handle players of your own level. Occasionally, even that these odds the lower-level (but more experienced) player will win anyway. Camping lowbies is an even stronger sign of being a noob.
  +
  +
*'''Bubble hearthing in BGs''': Sometimes this is done for humor value, but more than one paladin has bubble hearthed right out of a BG to avoid "durability loss" from dying — only to be surprised that they have left the BG entirely. This can also be used in [[Alterac Valley]] using the Home trinket. Paladins that bubble up and teleport to Dun Baldr just to avoid getting ganked are pretty much as much noobs as druids going to [[travel form]] whenever anything that's not a warrior attacks them.
  +
  +
*'''Aggro management''': Taunt, feint, cower, challenging shout, all are very useful powers that have no effect whatsoever in PVP. That doesn't keep the noob from using them at every opportunity (note that Feign Death is notably missing from this list. That is because, in some rare cases, other players can be actually fooled that the hunter has died and moved on to another target. While this can happen to anyone, someone whom falls for it repeatedly is likely a noob). Another legitimate reason for a hunter to use Feign Death in PVP is to drop off from the enemy player's target making it harder to attack them again. Also, while removing the target from a casting player, their spell casting is interrupted, thus losing the time spent casting it.
  +
  +
*'''Assuming command''': Suggestions and possible tactics are one thing, but telling everyone to do one set thing and then exploding into a rage when things are done otherwise is general noob behavior. Even more so if the plan merely sounds good, but clearly will lead to failure.
  +
  +
*'''Controlling level brackets''': Some people just can't take it when someone enters a bg and is below the highest level in the bracket, and will do whatever is in their power to get them out. They don't view anyone who isn't highest in the level bracket useful in the least, and can't understand why anyone would join a bg at any level but the one they consider, nay, ''know'' (or ''think'' they know), is acceptable.
  +
  +
*'''Not Helping Objectives''': A common example of this is ganking players midfield in [[Warsong Gulch]] instead of getting the opponent's flag or defending your own. Actions like this are generally not productive and WILL disadvantage your team. This kind of noobish behavior has cost lots of matches. Refusing to work as part of a team also falls under this.
  +
  +
===Around Town===
  +
====Chat====
  +
*'''Spamming in the /general channel''': This is both ineffective and annoying. You're also likely to end up on /ignore lists. Long after the player has forgotten why he ignored you, you will still be paying the price.
  +
  +
*'''/yells''': There are times when a yell is entertaining and appropriate. However, 99% of yells in major cities are neither.
  +
  +
*'''1337 speak''': Though many very competent players use 1337 speak, especially on non-RP servers, this style of chat is often associated with noobishness.
  +
  +
*'''Straying off-topic in /LookingForGroup''': Noobs often consider the global Looking For Group channel to be the perfect place to bring their Barrens Chat when they leave the Barrens (or Westfall, for Alliance). Blizzard has implemented a new LFG feature and this has helped cut back on the LFG chat spam. However, since then the trade channel has effectively replaced it, causing many people who try to sell their goods have to put up with this, not people who simply had LFG on all the time just to hear it.
  +
  +
*'''Participating in "[[Barrens chat]]" tropes''': This includes (but by no means is limited to) [[wikipedia:Chuck Norris|Chuck Norris]], Leeroy Jenkins, the "Fifty DKP Minus Guy", and whatever inane and irrelevant chatter. More often than not, it is bored higher level players.
  +
  +
*'''ALL CAPS''': Capslock is a classic piece of noobery. Occasional capslock can be taken as shouting. Caps lock all the time, and for no apparent reason, is a mark of a noob.
  +
  +
*'''"WTS [BOP Item] lawls"''': Sadly, this is ''not'' a sign of a noob, just a show-off.
  +
  +
====Begging====
  +
*'''Begging for gold''': Randomly begging for gold, like spamming channels, usually leads to being /ignored. Gold can be farmed very quickly and easily through solo PVE, even as you gain reputation or experience. It should be noted that in rarer cases this is not a mark of noobishness but rather laziness on the begger's behalf.
  +
  +
*'''Opening trades / inviting to parties / popping guild petitions without chatting first''': Classic noob behavior, sometimes associated with gold farming as well. Mature players who want water / healthstones / summons / portals / buffs will ask for them politely.
  +
  +
*'''Run me through X instance''': This kind of begging, sometimes accompanied by a pitifully meager bribe, is usually the mark of a noob. Experienced players usually ask friends to help them if they are doing this, rather than total strangers. Most of the time they'll threaten to report you if you don't. Just ignore these types of threats, they're usually empty and even then the [[GM]] will simply laugh at them as not running someone through an instance is not against their policies. The addition of the [[Dungeon Finder]] tool has made it very easy for low-leveled players to find similar people to group with, making begging even more inexcusable.
  +
  +
====Miscellaneous====
  +
*'''Immature behavior''': There are many mature young players. Many young players, however, are not mature, and the stereotypical noob at least acts as though he was a child.
  +
  +
*'''Dancing naked''': Usually done with Elves, dancing naked in public places, often atop a popular mailbox, is usually a mark of noob behavior. As this is usually done with alts it doesn't always affect the player's reputation.
  +
  +
*'''Forum trolling''': Noobs often can't limit their noob behavior to the server, and bring it out into the forums as well.
  +
  +
*'''Duel spamming''': The areas just outside of Ironforge and Orgrimmar is a common location for duels for players of all skill levels. Some noobs, however, repeatedly spam duel requests on characters of wildly higher or lower levels. In addition to being rude, it is often a sign that the player either does not understand level-based advantages or prefers dueling players who have no chance against them.
  +
  +
*'''Elitist behavior towards healers and tanks''': When running an high-level instance, many noob damage dealers expect an overgeared tank and/or healer to carry them through the instance. If a tank or healer has mostly blues or greens on, they may be kicked from a party or mocked for their gear. Noob DPS players often believe that they as a damage dealer, are not gear dependent, and may run an instance in all greens while expecting a healer or tank to have full epics. They often go by the "if the tank dies, it's the healer's fault. if the healer dies it's the tank's fault" motto, even though wipes may have occured because of them. This mostly occurs in heroics, where a noob damage dealer will expect a raid geared tank, although the tank may already have high health and be well over the defense cap (Rares may higher defense rating than epics, but lower stamina and no pure avoidance or mitigation stats).
  +
  +
== External links ==
  +
{{elink|type=wowinsider|link=http://www.wow.com/2009/09/02/wow-rookie-how-not-to-be-a-noob/|desc=WoW Rookie: How not to be a noob}}
  +
[[Category:Game terms]]

Revision as of 00:54, 21 April 2011

Newbie Guide
Sections

Picking a Server
Character Creation
Intro Fly-thru and Starting Areas
Name and selection circle colors
Getting Better
Quests
Obtaining Wealth
Rest
Fighting and Dying
Travel
Items
Parties
Instanced Dungeons
Chat and Interface
Tips for New Players

Combined

Complete combined guide

Other

Newbie instance guide

A newbie (aka newb, nub(cake), noob, or n00b), also called a scrub, is a player who is either new to World of Warcraft or experienced in the game yet ignorant of how to play. Note that while all these terms are derived from the word newbie and have the same literal meaning, their connotations are quite different. Newb commonly speaks of a new player, while a noob, n00b, or nub means someone who thinks he knows everything, criticizing others while doing many of the things listed below and calling people who tell them they're doing something wrong a n00b. Though not doing the things listed below will prevent you from acting like a noob, good humor, admitting to being new, and asking about things you don't know will prevent you from acting like a noob.

Some examples are "The Paladin bubbled while carrying the flag, NOOB!" and "Even though I've been through Waling Caverns 3 times, I still feel like a noob there."

Usage

The terms newb or newbie typically refer to someone new to the game, and thus forgivable of any innocent mistakes they might make. Noob or nub (and their Leetspeak variations) carry a harsher meaning, that of a player being stupid or ignorant. Beyond a certain character level, players who make mistakes are usually assumed to be noobs, or else new players who have purchased their accounts instead of leveling up themselves. Either way, other players generally regard them with contempt.

Most players are mature enough to recognize that everyone was once a newb, and offer tips and other assistance to inexperienced players. Some, however, have severe disrespect for anyone who they consider a "noob"

A "noob" described by wowcrendor is someone who is either: A. New to the game B. Bad at the game C. Is being called a noob by a noob because the noob is mad at his noobness and retaliates by calling the non-noob a noob.

How NOT to be a noob

The best way not to be a noob is to accept that you will never know everything there is to know about the game. Always be open to criticism and strive to learn more about game mechanics and the specifics of your class.

This is by no means an exhaustive list of noobish behaviors. Most of these offenses are at one point or another committed accidentally by everyone. Some people may act in these ways with a full understanding of what they are doing, performing a twisted form of humor (somewhat related to trolling).

What makes this a list of newbie behaviors is that newbies exhibit many of them at once, usually out of ignorance either of the offense or its consequences. By reading and understanding this list and the social mores behind it, one can learn how not to be a noob.

PVE

Tanks

  • Frivolous taunts: Taunting a mob that is already on the tank has no effect and wastes the cooldown of the taunt.
  • Healer pulls aggro: When a damage dealer pulls aggro, that makes the damage dealer a noob. When a healer pulls aggro, that makes his tank a noob. Healing generates significant AOE aggro. A good tank can keep aggro on multiple targets at once, staying ahead of the healer, and pulling aggro off the healer quickly should one mob peel off. Healing only generates aggro based on healing done (overhealing doesn't count). So there are three reasons that a healer might pull aggro:
    • The tank's gear isn't good enough, so the healer has to heal too much too early, and thus pulls aggro (tank's fault).
    • The tank isn't keeping proper aggro on all mobs (tank's fault).
    • A ranged damage dealer pulled aggro and then reduced it after the fact (e.g. by Ability rogue feigndeath [Feign Death] or dying). After moving away from the tank, the mob found that the healer aggro was in the range between 100% and 130% of the tanks aggro, and thus turned on the healer. (ranged damage dealers fault)
    • In any case where the healer pulls aggro, some healing classes can quickly use an aggro reducing ability (e.g. Spell magic lesserinvisibilty [Fade]). If they don't, their death may actually be their own fault.
  • Charging into a pulled encounter: Using Ability warrior charge [Charge] gives Warrior initial Rage, which greatly helps initial aggro buildup. In some situations though, crowd control or nearby mobs makes charging a suicide venture. Constant, irrational uses of charge leads to wipes and is a classic sign of a noob.
  • Acting like a damage dealer: A tank's job is not dealing damage to a mob, it is mitigating damage from the mob. Not wearing a shield drastically reduces damage mitigation. Berserker stance reduces both aggro generation and damage mitigation. Very high skilled warrior tanks can (and sometimes must) stance-dance, staying in any other stance but Defensive Stance for extended periods of time equals acting like a noob.
  • Pulling early: Often newbie warriors are eager to pull before their rage runs out. Doing so when the casters are out of mana easily results in a wipe. Damage dealers also sometimes suffer from this foible when they are pulling.
  • One mob at a time: By level 60, pulls of several mobs at a time are common, even after crowd control. An off-tank can reduce the load somewhat, but a tank that can't hold aggro on multiple mobs at once is a noob.
  • Ignoring mana bars Your healer can't heal you if they don't have any mana. Allow them time to drink after a fight. On a routine pull with a healer you can tell is competent, it's usually safe to pull if they have over half their mana. On a boss, unless everyone tremendously outgears the instance, they need a full bar.
  • Tunnel vision* If adds arrive, it might be the tank's fault (if they chose to tank near a pat or didn't anticipate mobs that fear) or it might be the DPS's fault (if they had a pet on aggressive or position themselves without paying attention). But in either case, the tank needs to be prepared to handle the adds. The tank who blindly tanks his current target without noticing the giant skeleton pulverizing everyone else is an utter noob.
  • When a tank attacks an incapacitated opponent or pacified enemy [Seeing the Incapacitation/Pacifation itself and it's effect on mob in question] Example:

"Rogue" casts Ability sap [Sap] at "Humanoid Enemy". "Humanoid Enemy" is affected by "Rogue"'s Ability sap [Sap]. "Tank"'s melee swing hits "Humanoid Enemy" for X damage. "Rogue"'s Ability sap [Sap] dissipatates from "Humanoid Enemy".

Healers

  • Not healing: Similar to tanks, healers have a very specific task which they must coutinuously perform at all times. The typical wipe caused by a noob healer happens as follows: During the first few seconds of a pull, nothing at all seems to happen. The noob healer starts to dps or just stops paying attention. At that point, the tank takes a damage spike. When the noob healer notices the tanks health at 30%, he starts to cast the biggest slow heal. 0.5 seconds before the end of the cast time the tank dies, 5 seconds later the group.
  • DPSing: Healers who DPS in instances come in two varieties: experienced players who have time and mana to spare, and noobs who merely think that they do. The latter group is far more common.
  • Fast OOM: Sometimes this is a matter of gear or level. However, healers who go oom early in a fight are usually noobs who aren't watching their mana efficiency.
  • Squander heals: Usually AoE healing spells are very expensive mana-wise, ergo they should not be used to heal 1-2 people simply because the healer doesn't want to switch target.
  • Fearing irrationally: At the slightest sign of aggro, noob priests love to use Spell shadow psychicscream [Psychic Scream] instead of waiting for the tank/off-tank to reestablish aggro. Besides making the mob untankable for the duration of the fear, feared mobs love to run into nearby groups of other mobs, pulling them and resulting in a wipe.

However, in certain situations (namely Heroic Instances and Raids), a single hit from a mob can easily kill a healer due to their lack in stamina and armor, which leads to a wipe anyways. In these situations, Psychic Scream can save the healer and the group.

Damage Dealers

  • Pulling aggro: For damage dealers, pulling aggro is the cardinal mistake they can commit, and repeatedly pulling aggro is noobish behavior. Every damage dealer can pull aggro from any similarly geared tank, pulling aggro as a damage dealer is nothing to be proud of. Noobs though are usually obsessed with their damage meters, and use their high-damage attacks too early in a fight (or on the wrong targets) in an attempt to maximize their apparent performance. This makes them feel good, especially when the tanks or healers complain. A noob damage dealer may also call the tank a noob despite gaining aggro through their own fault. Sometimes, a well-intentioned newb even tries to peel adds off a tank, thinking they are helping the healer by reducing the tank's incoming damage. But the healer's job is easiest when all mobs are on the tank, and rage-based tanks need to take hits so they can generate rage and thus create more threat, and Paladin tanks must take hits to gain threat through Retribution Aura, or dodge/parry/block hits in order to gain mana through Blessing of Sanctuary. When damage dealers peel, the tank must focus their attacks on the peeled mob, reducing their threat generation on the others. This, combined with the need for excessive healing on the damage dealer, may causes the healer to take aggro, leading to a wipe. Also, many damage dealers have the option of using threat reduction abilities, talents, or enchants, but refuse to use them as it would lower their damage output. If they are not mindful of their threat, and draw aggro as a result, they often use the phrase "Tank better" or something similar as an excuse.
  • Breaking crowd control: This is just like pulling aggro, except it's adding a mob who wasn't hurting anyone to the fight, which means that either the mob has to be re-CCed or the main tank has to stop building aggro on the main assist target to grab the CC'd mob back. AOE is a common source here.
  • DOTing a crowd controlled mob: A refinement of the "breaking CC" noob move, this additionally makes the mob immune to CC for some time. Sometimes these things happen, but more than once in an instance is a strong sign of a noob.
  • Not crowd-controlling (or re-applying CC): Crowd control is vital to many pulls. Even when it feels slower to fight mobs one at a time, experience teaches that that is the fastest way to finish. Noobs, however, either don't want to CC or don't care. Some also don't like to stop DPS to re-apply a crowd control effect because it lowers their position on the damage meters-- a classic sign of hapless noobery.
  • Running away when getting aggro: Because of the way that melee damage swings are timed, this doesn't reduce damage taken at all. But it does make it much harder and slower for a tank to re-establish aggro. In effect, running creates chaos for the group without gaining anything at all. Experienced players either use an aggro-reducing ability (feint, cower, fade, vanish, feign death, ice block or bubble) or stand still and wait for the tank to come over, or run *toward* the tank of their own accord. The exception here is kiting a mob on purpose — this is almost always planned in advance. Healers are also prone to this kind of newbism.
  • Frivolous AOE: Not only does this help to put the noob to the bottom of the damage meters, but using AOE on a single target without good reason is a great way to waste mana and break crowd control. A fearsome tool in the noob arsenal.
  • Spamming a DOT: Most DOTs don't stack with themselves, but that doesn't stop a newbie from blowing his mana pool applying and re-applying it before the DOT has expired.
  • Pulling adds: Tab-targeting, fear and knock-back mean that even experienced players sometimes pull adds. However, multiple repeat offenses in the same instance gradually suggest that noobidity, rather than clumsiness, are at fault.
  • Spreading DPS: This includes frivolous use of AOE, but also simply attacking a mob that has is not marked as the current target. Not only does this make it much more likely to pull aggro (because the tank is focused on another target), but it also stretches out the fight unnecessarily.
  • Hybrids refusing to heal when needed: If the main healer dies or is otherwise incapacitated, any damage dealers with healing abilities (Balance druid in caster form, Retribution Paladin, Enhancement or Elemental Shaman) may be expected to pick up healing duties. In certain encounters, Hybrids may be expected to watch their own health and keep themselves alive (in order to keep main healers' attention on tanks). Noob Hybrid DPS refuse to stop DPSing to cast a heal on themselves, because it lowers their position on the damage meters. These hybrids often make other noob mistakes such as standing in enemy AoE and expecting a healer to heal them through it.

Loot

  • Ninja looting: Loot ninjas are among the most hated players, newbies should try to avoid this accusation by all means. Most loot ninjas are real villains who know very well about what they're doing and do it without remorse, but newbies may not, and may not realize they might have problems grouping again in the future. Therefore, newbies are well advised to carefully compare the drop with their current gear (see "Replacing epic with epics"), and also try to understand why a certain item may be better suited to another class than their own.
  • Looting gear you can't use: This most extreme form of ninja looting is a quick and sure method to ruin one's reputation. Noobs don't realize completely what they can and can't use. Some don't understand what Bind on Pickup means, and intend to sell or give items to an alt. Some simply don't understand itemization, as a warrior who rolls on plate with int, mp5 and spellpower (meant for Holy Paladins).
  • Looting gear you shouldn't use: Every class has statistics that provide a real but very minor benefit, e.g. armor penetration for Retribution paladins (who do largely magical damage that isn't affected by armor). There's almost always another class who gets an enormous benefit from that statistic, e.g. warriors and cat druids. You will do better with a well-itemized green. Let them have it.
  • Not looting quest items: Everyone does this, even the most experienced player. Newbies just do it a lot more often.
  • "Replacing epics with epics": Now, everyone will replace gear, but this specifically refers to replacing one piece of gear with another piece of the same item level with similar stats. For example, many believe that gear from 10-man Naxxramas is better than Exalted rep gear, Emblem of Heroism gear, Heroic end-boss gear, and craftable epics, when they are in fact the same item level and have similar stats. Another example would be replacing gear from 25-man Kel'thuzad or 25-man Malygos with gear from 10-man Ulduar. If another player needs the upgrade more than you do, such as replacing a rare or uncommon item, then it would be polite (plus better for the group or raid overall) if you let them have it.
  • Blindly chasing blues and purples: Properly itemized rare (blue) gear is indeed better than uncommon (green) gear of the same or lower item level, and epics (purple) are likewise better than rares. But only if they actually fit your class. It's astonishingly common to see newbies wearing, for example, epic crafted Frost Resistance gear, because that gear is a) PURPLE and b) cheap as epics go. But with the possible exception of a newly 80 bear tank, it's utterly worthless for every class.

Between pulls

  • Refusing to buff: Buffs typically cost only mana, and should always be up. Even feral druids can shift out, rebuff, and shift back. Buffs that require a reagent are still usually well worth it and are expected of the player.
  • Extended AFKs: There are often legitimate reasons to go AFK. Repeated or extended AFK's are a classic sign of noobishness. They keep the rest of the party waiting and often are accompanied by incompetent play followed by a DC.
  • DCing: Everyone is disconnected from time to time. However, a player who mysteriously and permanently DCs after a dispute, when a piece of loot they want doesn't drop or after some other kind of disappointment is quite possibly a noob. Players who are merely rude simply leave group and port to a city. Newbies DC thinking they have fooled someone.
  • Ignoring chat: A very common sign of a noob is a player who very obviously has not read chat (strategies, calls for questions, announcements that people should turn in quests, etc) and then causes the whole group to suffer the consequences, typically a wipe.
  • Spamming damage meters: Damage meters are sometimes useful to determine effectiveness. Newbies, however, take them as Holy Writ, and spam them at every opportunity. In addition to being annoying and often inaccurate, the spam also hides legitimate chat. It is also very common for a noob to continuously ask others to post Damage Meter readings when they are in the top. Obviously people asking "DMGMETERS?" while being on top of damage done are running some sort of meter themselves and just want to brag.

Raiding

Noob raiders suffer from all the foibles of the PVE noob, with some additional outrages all their own.

  • Failing to meet required caps for chosen class/role: This is applicable in all PVE, but mandatory in heroics / raiding. A noob tank stacks stamina before he caps his defense rating (the most important trait of a raid tank is to be uncrittable, because some bosses can one-shot even the best geared tank with a crit). Much more often, however, the noob damage dealer shows his ignorance by stacking crit rating and bragging about his crit percentage before he is hit-capped (typically damage dealers need to cap or nearly cap their hit rating before focusing on crit rating). New players should find out what their class/spec's stat balancing priorities are and gear accordingly, rather than just picking stats that seem fun or make big numbers.
  • Not bringing keys / resist gear / consumables / etc: Raiders are expected to be prepared. Plenty of non-noobs don't have these items, but the quintessential noob leaves them in the bank when they are required, week in and week out.
  • Not repairing or bringing mats before a raid: Despite constant entreaties to repair before raids, noobs defiantly walk into a raid with half-fixed gear and, once there, demand an expensive bot to be burned just for them. Similarly, experienced players know about how much reagents they need for a raid, and bring even more. Noobs don't and run out.
  • Not having required mods: Raiders work in guilds, most of which demand specific mods like CT RaidAssist, threat meters, and boss-specific mods. Not having these mods is very rare, but marks the raider as a noob if it happens.
  • Not knowing an encounter: Of course this happens to everyone, because at one point or another everyone has been new to an instance. Noobs try to bluff their way through and wipe the raid.

PVP

  • Botting BGs: This is done by some experienced players to farm rep or honor, but is strongly frowned upon. Noobs often do this, and can't understand why it's a problem. Botting in this sense means remaining largely AFK, while occasionally moving or jumping to avoid being flagged AFK and kicked out of the BG altogether. You share in the honor and reputation rewards without contributing anything, and taking up a slot in the battleground that could have been filled by a participating player. However now people can be reported AFK if it looks like they're doing nothing and these people will not get a cut of the honor, rep or medals if he is flagged AFK. Blizzard is also claiming that the honor, medals, honor rewards are now being stripped and warnings/suspensions being handed out to people who are habitual botters. But that does not mean that these people are no longer noobs.
  • Ganking lowbies: Riding around as a 70-80, often with friends, and killing players who you cannot gain honor from, is usually taken as a sign that you cannot handle players of your own level. Occasionally, even that these odds the lower-level (but more experienced) player will win anyway. Camping lowbies is an even stronger sign of being a noob.
  • Bubble hearthing in BGs: Sometimes this is done for humor value, but more than one paladin has bubble hearthed right out of a BG to avoid "durability loss" from dying — only to be surprised that they have left the BG entirely. This can also be used in Alterac Valley using the Home trinket. Paladins that bubble up and teleport to Dun Baldr just to avoid getting ganked are pretty much as much noobs as druids going to travel form whenever anything that's not a warrior attacks them.
  • Aggro management: Taunt, feint, cower, challenging shout, all are very useful powers that have no effect whatsoever in PVP. That doesn't keep the noob from using them at every opportunity (note that Feign Death is notably missing from this list. That is because, in some rare cases, other players can be actually fooled that the hunter has died and moved on to another target. While this can happen to anyone, someone whom falls for it repeatedly is likely a noob). Another legitimate reason for a hunter to use Feign Death in PVP is to drop off from the enemy player's target making it harder to attack them again. Also, while removing the target from a casting player, their spell casting is interrupted, thus losing the time spent casting it.
  • Assuming command: Suggestions and possible tactics are one thing, but telling everyone to do one set thing and then exploding into a rage when things are done otherwise is general noob behavior. Even more so if the plan merely sounds good, but clearly will lead to failure.
  • Controlling level brackets: Some people just can't take it when someone enters a bg and is below the highest level in the bracket, and will do whatever is in their power to get them out. They don't view anyone who isn't highest in the level bracket useful in the least, and can't understand why anyone would join a bg at any level but the one they consider, nay, know (or think they know), is acceptable.
  • Not Helping Objectives: A common example of this is ganking players midfield in Warsong Gulch instead of getting the opponent's flag or defending your own. Actions like this are generally not productive and WILL disadvantage your team. This kind of noobish behavior has cost lots of matches. Refusing to work as part of a team also falls under this.

Around Town

Chat

  • Spamming in the /general channel: This is both ineffective and annoying. You're also likely to end up on /ignore lists. Long after the player has forgotten why he ignored you, you will still be paying the price.
  • /yells: There are times when a yell is entertaining and appropriate. However, 99% of yells in major cities are neither.
  • 1337 speak: Though many very competent players use 1337 speak, especially on non-RP servers, this style of chat is often associated with noobishness.
  • Straying off-topic in /LookingForGroup: Noobs often consider the global Looking For Group channel to be the perfect place to bring their Barrens Chat when they leave the Barrens (or Westfall, for Alliance). Blizzard has implemented a new LFG feature and this has helped cut back on the LFG chat spam. However, since then the trade channel has effectively replaced it, causing many people who try to sell their goods have to put up with this, not people who simply had LFG on all the time just to hear it.
  • Participating in "Barrens chat" tropes: This includes (but by no means is limited to) Chuck Norris, Leeroy Jenkins, the "Fifty DKP Minus Guy", and whatever inane and irrelevant chatter. More often than not, it is bored higher level players.
  • ALL CAPS: Capslock is a classic piece of noobery. Occasional capslock can be taken as shouting. Caps lock all the time, and for no apparent reason, is a mark of a noob.
  • "WTS [BOP Item] lawls": Sadly, this is not a sign of a noob, just a show-off.

Begging

  • Begging for gold: Randomly begging for gold, like spamming channels, usually leads to being /ignored. Gold can be farmed very quickly and easily through solo PVE, even as you gain reputation or experience. It should be noted that in rarer cases this is not a mark of noobishness but rather laziness on the begger's behalf.
  • Opening trades / inviting to parties / popping guild petitions without chatting first: Classic noob behavior, sometimes associated with gold farming as well. Mature players who want water / healthstones / summons / portals / buffs will ask for them politely.
  • Run me through X instance: This kind of begging, sometimes accompanied by a pitifully meager bribe, is usually the mark of a noob. Experienced players usually ask friends to help them if they are doing this, rather than total strangers. Most of the time they'll threaten to report you if you don't. Just ignore these types of threats, they're usually empty and even then the GM will simply laugh at them as not running someone through an instance is not against their policies. The addition of the Dungeon Finder tool has made it very easy for low-leveled players to find similar people to group with, making begging even more inexcusable.

Miscellaneous

  • Immature behavior: There are many mature young players. Many young players, however, are not mature, and the stereotypical noob at least acts as though he was a child.
  • Dancing naked: Usually done with Elves, dancing naked in public places, often atop a popular mailbox, is usually a mark of noob behavior. As this is usually done with alts it doesn't always affect the player's reputation.
  • Forum trolling: Noobs often can't limit their noob behavior to the server, and bring it out into the forums as well.
  • Duel spamming: The areas just outside of Ironforge and Orgrimmar is a common location for duels for players of all skill levels. Some noobs, however, repeatedly spam duel requests on characters of wildly higher or lower levels. In addition to being rude, it is often a sign that the player either does not understand level-based advantages or prefers dueling players who have no chance against them.
  • Elitist behavior towards healers and tanks: When running an high-level instance, many noob damage dealers expect an overgeared tank and/or healer to carry them through the instance. If a tank or healer has mostly blues or greens on, they may be kicked from a party or mocked for their gear. Noob DPS players often believe that they as a damage dealer, are not gear dependent, and may run an instance in all greens while expecting a healer or tank to have full epics. They often go by the "if the tank dies, it's the healer's fault. if the healer dies it's the tank's fault" motto, even though wipes may have occured because of them. This mostly occurs in heroics, where a noob damage dealer will expect a raid geared tank, although the tank may already have high health and be well over the defense cap (Rares may higher defense rating than epics, but lower stamina and no pure avoidance or mitigation stats).

External links