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SandboxColor ChartsSigature(M o r p hJames E. Rooks, Jr. aka: Morph
Morphgnome & Morphdraenei
| CMorph has made 8,564 contribution(s) to WoWWiki. | TLeave me a message on my Discussion/Talk Page) IconSmall Gnome MaleMorphgnomeIconSmall Draenei MaleMorphdraenei
HeaderECMorph has made 8,564 contibutions to WoWWiki so far.

Patch 3.1.0 mounts & pets Edit

Did you gleam this information from Thottbot or did you actually find all these things in the PTR? Or if you read about them in an article such as MMO Champion or WoW Insider, can you please add references? (I can help you with that if you're not familiar. -Howbizr (talk) 17:58, 25 February 2009 (UTC)

I did have a reference tag stating "Taken from MMO-Champion. <ref name=`mmo-ptr`>MMO-Champion (24-02-2009). PTR 3.0.1 - Patch Notes. Retrieved on February 24 2009.</ref>". Hans Kamp removed the tag when he/she put the Mounts / Pets under Items -- ( Morph | Contribs | Talk ) 18:14, 25 February 2009 (UTC)
Perfect. I (or you if you want) should add that back into the notes, and remove my "†" comment. I just poked around a bit and was worried it had just come from Thottbot because I couldn't find any other references to it. But if it's so new it really isn't on Google's index yet, and it is a bluepost (looks like it from MMO Champion) that's awesome. I can't wait to have an aquatic mount! -Howbizr (talk) 19:23, 25 February 2009 (UTC)
Come to find out since most ( if not all ) of this page came from MMO Champion - Hans Kamp Made the link a External Link at the bottom of the page, so should I still make individual reference tags? or leave it as it is? -- ( Morph | Contribs | Talk ) 19:34, 25 February 2009 (UTC)
Personal preference, I like the ref links. But it's probably fine as it is. -Howbizr (talk) 07:42, 26 February 2009 (UTC)

Moving the TOC Edit

I like what you did on Patch 3.1.0 (undocumented changes) but it didn't work (in my browser, my resolution) on the main page. I think it's because the huge links couldn't wrap correctly or something. I changed it to something that did work for now. -Howbizr (talk) 08:21, 26 February 2009 (UTC)

OK I finally merged all my changes on the undoc page with yours. It broke the placement of the TOC. Again if you know how to fix it, please do. -Howbizr (talk) 10:01, 26 February 2009 (UTC)

Patch 3.1.0 (undocumented additions) Edit

May I ask why you created this page, when we have Patch 3.1.0 (undocumented changes) for all of that... User:Coobra/Sig3 04:35, 27 February 2009 (UTC)

nvm, just saw the chat on Pcj's page. User:Coobra/Sig3 04:37, 27 February 2009 (UTC)
Please remove it -- I will add the removed information to the pages that Pcj said they need to go on -- at a later time -- ( Morph | Contribs | Talk ) 04:41, 27 February 2009 (UTC)

Badge Edit

Just happened to notice your user page looks broken. I don't think our version of wiki compiles "badge" tags. -Howbizr (talk) 15:42, 10 March 2009 (UTC)

Achievement templates Edit

IMO, I think {{Achievement}} is better for bullet points, and {{Achievementlong}} is better for meta-achievements, but do as you please. Was just browsing changes to Argent Tournament. -Howbizr (talk) 15:05, 13 March 2009 (UTC)

Re:Kirin Tor Rings Edit

Neato. Thanks! Now I know what's next on my buy list...-Howbizr (talk) 18:36, 19 March 2009 (UTC)

RE: Tier 8 Valorous Garb changes Edit

Then feel free to add the source in the proper way, such as "This item is sold by Random Vendor <Some Quartermaster> in exchange for [Phat Lewt of the Conqueror]". Of course that's not a real example, but you get the point.

If you mean the sets, then the {{Tier 8 token source}} template should be used - and of course it needs some expansion, since it's obviously not complete. --User:Gourra/Sig2 14:55, 24 March 2009 (UTC)

I know that there is an inconsistency problem on those pages, and they should be corrected, and be formatted the way that I mentioned earlier. It makes it easier to read and gathers it all in one sentence. --User:Gourra/Sig2 15:07, 24 March 2009 (UTC)


Eek! Edit

Dungeons_&_Raids_(Secrets_of_Ulduar_Heroic_Raid)_achievements and company should be named Dungeons_&_Raids_achievements (Secrets_of_Ulduar_Heroic_Raid). --Sky (t · c · w) 18:43, 26 March 2009 (UTC)

Re:Relocation of the Stub/PTR|3.1.0...Edit

Before the PTR & the live content was smashed together, numbering got off, Money achievement Momma Said Knock You Out was duplicated. I tried something different now. Check it out. Dungeons & Raids achievements -Howbizr (talk) 21:48, 26 March 2009 (UTC)

The problem with Money achievement Momma Said Knock You Out was it was listed twice. I really like the current format because it's a nice overview - if you want all the details just click on the link to view the full article.
If that's the official name (I haven't been on the PTR so that seemed out of place to me) then just change the subsection names on Dungeons & Raids achievements. I'd strongly recommend leaving the stub on the sub section(s) to denote that it's PTR material. -Howbizr (talk) 22:10, 26 March 2009 (UTC)
I'm having a hard time understanding your replies. But if you can ask me a specific question, maybe just use shorter sentences, I'll be happy to reply. I'm so sorry if that sounds condescending, but I can't think of a nicer way to say it without just being forthright. -Howbizr (talk) 22:32, 26 March 2009 (UTC)
In general, I hate all of those pages, because they're too big and load so slowly. I was just trying to make them a little bit nicer. I should really just take them off my watch list, because I want to scream every time I see them. Smiley If I screwed anything up, have at it.
Just make sure the page looks good to readers, versus being easier to edit (like the numbering thing).
I'm off for a bit. Probably won't be back on the wiki until tomorrow at the earliest. Best of luck with the weather. -Howbizr (talk) 23:04, 26 March 2009 (UTC)

Our Daily BreadEdit

OMG Thanks for fixing that! I've been so frustrated about those pages. -Howbizr (talk) 22:28, 26 March 2009 (UTC)

I wrote most of the {{achievementbox}} and {{achievementlong}} template code, and I still missed it! /facepalm -Howbizr (talk) 22:39, 26 March 2009 (UTC)

Speedy delete redirects Edit

One small note, please place the {{speedydelete}} template above the #REDIRECT <article name>. This just makes it easier to delete, this is just a note for the future, don't worry about the ones currently marked for deletion. Keep up the good work. User:Coobra/Sig4 07:47, 1 April 2009 (UTC)

Removing subpages Edit

Why are you removing subpages? I think the new names you are coming up with are wrong as well. --PcjWoWWiki admin (TDrop me a line!C62,301 contributions and counting) 01:39, 14 April 2009 (UTC)

See Eek -- Sky is the one that told me to name them that way - see his talk page on the discussion " Subpages are now wrong " or something like that -- that is how he wanted them named -- (M o r p h | C | T) IconSmall Gnome MaleIconSmall Draenei Male 01:49, 14 April 2009 (UTC)

Eww, the title he recommended is disgusting. I think it's going to require a bit more conversation. Just leave it the way it is for now... --PcjWoWWiki admin (TDrop me a line!C62,301 contributions and counting) 01:51, 14 April 2009 (UTC)
Heh you are a little late -- The pages I did today was the last of them - unless I missed some, otherwise there are no more sub pages for the achievments now - You caught me when I was doing the Literaly last 2 pages -- (M o r p h | C | T) IconSmall Gnome MaleIconSmall Draenei Male 01:54, 14 April 2009 (UTC)

Self reference Edit

BTW for future PTRs, if you want to add stuff to the undocumented changes (such as for 3.1), you don't need to reference yourself, aka " <ref name="jrooksjr">From the PTR server - see [[Talk:{{PAGENAME}}|Discussion]] Page</ref>."

My personal edit style, for undocumented changes, for pointers I find on MMO Champion and such, is to put a lot of references. But this is mostly because once in a while we'll determine that the "changes" were just datamined and not actual patch changes. I find the reference helpful for confirming/denying these kinds of allegations.

Just my two cents. -Howbizr (talk) 13:36, 16 April 2009 (UTC)

No prob. I wasn't sure if you were still doing it, or if it was one that hadn't been removed. -Howbizr (talk) 17:41, 16 April 2009 (UTC)

RE: Patched Icon Edit

The icon is too big for to be used on single lines. Not to mention that on articles with several patch changes, it would look like an icon hell. --User:Gourra/Sig2 11:58, 3 May 2009 (UTC)

RE: It is NOT in the Patchnotes... Edit

I'm not in the US so I don't have the patch notes yet, so I go by the patch notes that I have available. --User:Gourra/Sig2 16:44, 19 May 2009 (UTC)

RE: Eitrigg US Edit

I see we're tinkering with the same page there! Any suggestions on improving it? I added the info for Ulduar progression so far, though it's strictly been 25-man. Sefeki (talk) 15:18, 11 June 2009 (UTC)

Signature Edit

Have you thought about making a template for your signature so it didn't spam so much code?

-- ([[User:Jrooksjr|<span="help title=Morph><font color="#306ac9" face="Lucida Calligraphy">'''M o r p 
h'''</font></span>]] | [[Special:Contributions/jrooksjr|<span="help title=Morph_Contribution(s)_to_this_Wiki><sup><font
 size=1>C</font></sup></span>]] | [[User talk:Jrooksjr|<span="help title=Morph_Discussion_Page><sub><font 
size=1>T</font></sub></span>]]) 
[[File:IconSmall_Gnome_Male.gif|Morphgnome|link=Gnome]][[File:IconSmall_Draenei_Male.gif|Morphdrae
nei|link=Draenei]] 19:47, 19 June 2009 (UTC)

vs.

{{User:Howbizr/sign}} 1:36 PM, 19 Jun 2009 (EDT)

Just Alerting You Small Howbizr(t·c) 5:01 PM, 19 Jun 2009 (EDT)

I don't think you have to have the "{{subst:" or even the "{{:" for your sig to work. i.e. "(M o r p hJames E. Rooks, Jr. aka: Morph
Morphgnome & Morphdraenei
| CMorph has made 8,564 contribution(s) to WoWWiki. | TLeave me a message on my Discussion/Talk Page) IconSmall Gnome MaleMorphgnomeIconSmall Draenei MaleMorphdraenei" ({{User:Jrooksjr/Sig1}}) looks just fine to me, and I think you could put that in your preferences and it would still work with ~~~~ Just Alerting You Small Howbizr(t·c) 9:37 PM, 19 Jun 2009 (EDT)
Ah so you'd need to have a second template so that when it does the subst it doesn't spam all the code. /poke /poke Do it! Do it! Less sig spam! Just Alerting You Small Howbizr(t·c) 9:35 AM, 20 Jun 2009 (EDT)
Don't make me sic A'noob on you Grin. Just Alerting You Small Howbizr(t·c) 9:40 AM, 20 Jun 2009 (EDT)
This is a test of the new Signature - I think:
~~~ (M o r p hJames E. Rooks, Jr. aka: Morph
Morphgnome & Morphdraenei
| CMorph has made 8,564 contribution(s) to WoWWiki. | TLeave me a message on my Discussion/Talk Page) IconSmall Gnome MaleMorphgnomeIconSmall Draenei MaleMorphdraenei
~~~~ (M o r p hJames E. Rooks, Jr. aka: Morph
Morphgnome & Morphdraenei
| CMorph has made 8,564 contribution(s) to WoWWiki. | TLeave me a message on my Discussion/Talk Page) IconSmall Gnome MaleMorphgnomeIconSmall Draenei MaleMorphdraenei 13:54, 20 June 2009 (UTC)
and ~~~~~ 13:54, 20 June 2009 (UTC)
/cheer It's always good to be spared the wrath of A'noob. Just Alerting You Small Howbizr(t·c) 1:30 PM, 20 Jun 2009 (EDT)

Patchbox changes Edit

Because it was made way too tight to see what is what on the template - and would it really be necessary to see what undocumented changes there are on the previous and next patches, not to mention what the current patch is between those two? If anything the Undocumented changes link would be under the Related. --User:Gourra/Sig2 20:06, 5 July 2009 (UTC)

BTW, feel free to make a Template:Patchbox/dev if you need a sandbox to test big changes. Just Alerting You Small Howbizr(t·c) 9:57 PM, 6 Jul 2009 (EDT)
Looks good. Only thing left to do is go back through all the old patches and add a |current=. Just Alerting You Small Howbizr(t·c) 2:39 PM, 7 Jul 2009 (EDT)

Re: BannerStub/PTR Edit

Agreed. I want people to use the big one most of the time. But I figured I'd create a smaller one, because I'm sure there are other occasions when people might want just a small one, just to point out a small stubbed section, where most of the article is still correct. Just Alerting You Small Howbizr(t·c) 10:12 PM, 8 Jul 2009 (EDT)

New template Edit

Maybe you'll like this one. {{LocationIcon|<Zangarmarsh>}}, i.e. Achievement zone zangarmarsh Zangarmarsh. Just Alerting You Small Howbizr(t·c) 12:20 AM, 9 Jul 2009 (EDT)

I think it's awesome. The only thing is I'd want to do it as an optional parameter. I'm gonna give a stab at that in the sandbox. Just Alerting You Small Howbizr(t·c) 8:58 AM, 11 Jul 2009 (EDT)
Check it out now. {{Coords/dev}}. Just Alerting You Small Howbizr(t·c) 9:19 AM, 11 Jul 2009 (EDT)
What do you think about this?
Title Description Reward
Spell deathknight summondeathcharger [And They Would All Go Down Together (10 player)] Defeat Combat 15 The Four Horsemen in Naxxramas , ensuring that they all die within 15 seconds of each other in 10-player mode. 10 Money achievement
Just Alerting You Small Howbizr(t·c) 5:06 PM, 19 Jul 2009 (EDT)
Agreed. I'll see if they can be added. It might need some JS work from Pcj, maybe not. Depends how he implemented it. Just Alerting You Small Howbizr(t·c) 7:42 PM, 19 Jul 2009 (EDT)
It looks like all the new dungeon maps have been uploaded, so that's a good start. However, I don't have icons for the dungeon locations. The ones used in {{LocationIcon}} pretty much came from the Money achievement World Explorer achievement, which doesn't include dungeons. However, if you can think up a good list of dungeon icons, or create some, I can certainly add them to the template. Just Alerting You Small Howbizr(t·c) 7:52 PM, 19 Jul 2009 (EDT)
Still missing a bunch. See the list I made, matching the icons to the dungeon maps. Just Alerting You Small Howbizr(t·c) 9:02 PM, 19 Jul 2009 (EDT)
Closer, but I found more dungeons. This should be a complete list of dungeons, with the icons I have so far. Just Alerting You Small Howbizr(t·c) 1:16 PM, 20 Jul 2009 (EDT)

Ya we won't be able to get {{co}} to have maps for those old dungeons, however {{locationIcon}} can still have an icon, in case anyone just wants to use that template alone, without coords. Just Alerting You Small Howbizr(t·c) 5:02 PM, 20 Jul 2009 (EDT)

Be careful when moving pages Edit

For example when you moved Glory of the Raider (25 player)/patch3.1.0, now Glory_of_the_Raider_(10_player)#Patch_changes looks all goofy. Use the what links here so you can see what all needs updated. Thanks! Just Alerting You Small Howbizr(t·c) 12:37 AM, 11 Jul 2009 (EDT)

Ya those are going to be quite an undertaking. It's possible maybe you could request a bot to do it. Just Alerting You Small Howbizr(t·c) 9:24 AM, 11 Jul 2009 (EDT)

Transclusions Edit

Please do not "undo" transclusions, especially if they're used in more than 3 pages (use the "what links here" to see). The whole point of them, is so that if the page ever needs changed, you change it once, and all the pages are updated. Removing the transclusion completely defeats the purpose, if the material ever has to be changed. Just Alerting You Small Howbizr(t·c) 11:11 AM, 11 Jul 2009 (EDT)

But undependent is bad. You had to change 6 (or so?) pages instead of just 1. Just Alerting You Small Howbizr(t·c) 11:21 AM, 11 Jul 2009 (EDT)
The transclude was only for that change, that applied to all of them. It was not meant to substitute the entire patch changes section. You can easily add more to it. Just see how I changed it, and maybe you'll understand. Just Alerting You Small Howbizr(t·c) 11:32 AM, 11 Jul 2009 (EDT)
It's a pretty rare occassion. The only other time I can think of when I use transclude with patch was even worse. They changed all of the epic goggles - I think it was a stealth detection change. It impacted something like 30 pages. Just Alerting You Small Howbizr(t·c) 11:41 AM, 11 Jul 2009 (EDT)

Re: Additional achievement changes needed on the (10 player) achievement Edit

I'm just sticking to the page moves, at least at this time. However, if you want to update the text, I'm pretty sure wowhead ptr has the latest. Just click the wowhead link at the bottom of the page, then "ptr" in the top lefthand corner of wowhead to switch. Just Alerting You Small Howbizr(t·c) 11:59 AM, 11 Jul 2009 (EDT)

Breaking for lunch. I might be back later to do more editing. Maybe not. Just Alerting You Small Howbizr(t·c) 12:58 PM, 11 Jul 2009 (EDT)

Mob vs NPC Edit

I don't think you need to clean up there. Bosses are mobs, not NPCs. Just Alerting You Small Howbizr(t·c) 1:14 PM, 11 Jul 2009 (EDT)

I think that's fair for those huge articles. But I don't think that {{mob}} should strictly be avoided. Most of those were inline text. Just Alerting You Small Howbizr(t·c) 1:31 PM, 11 Jul 2009 (EDT)

You shoul note your achievements changes in the WoWWiki forums Edit

You might want to put your Feats of Strength achievements have been broken down into smaller groups comment on my talk page in the WoWWiki general forum. You'll get more broad feedback there. --Gengar orange 22x22Beware the sneaky smile! Fandyllic (talk · contr) 11:05 AM PST 13 Jul 2009

You can see a listing of all of the feats of strength on wowhead. There are probably more missing, or new ones that just being added in 3.2. Just Alerting You Small Howbizr(t·c) 3:26 PM, 19 Jul 2009 (EDT)

Patch 3.2 Achievement Changes Edit

You shouldn't remove an achievement from a page, because its being removed in 3.2. Make a Patch stub note or something saying its being removed in 3.2, so users can still see it and search it until its ACTUALLY been removed. I'm reverting your change on the Player vs Player Wintergrasp page, and reinstating said achievements. Resa1983 (talk) 14:36, 17 July 2009 (UTC)

Are you going to Alphabetize EVERY Player vs Player Achievement page? Because the Wintergrasp one is the only one now thats alphabetized, and it looks out of place not following the other pages' standard. As well, shouldn't the meta achievement be at the BOTTOM of the page of achievements? It looks odd not being at the bottom considering the meta is at the bottom of every achievement section in-game. Resa1983 (talk) 16:03, 17 July 2009 (UTC)
I would be in favor of alphabetizing, with the meta at the top or the bottom, if someone wants to take up that project. Just Alerting You Small Howbizr(t·c) 3:24 PM, 19 Jul 2009 (EDT)
Understandable. Just my personal opinion to let the meta stand out, so it can be easily found. Just Alerting You Small Howbizr(t·c) 7:39 PM, 19 Jul 2009 (EDT)

{{Mob}} Edit

Fixed. Just Alerting You Small Howbizr(t·c) 1:45 PM, 20 Jul 2009 (EDT)

Simple mistake really. You just used the template wrong. "{{reputation|U}}" doesn't work (U). You need "{{reputation|unfriendly||U}}" (U). But in the end, I ended up changing {{reputation}} as well, because it was behaving kind of funny if you supplied a blank link.
I'm guessing what you probably were seeing was cached data. If you just changed a template, and you want to see it take effect, use "what links here" to find a page that transcludes the template. Edit that page, click "save" but don't make any changes. The history shouldn't be affected, however, the page will still get recompiled so you can see the change on demand. Eventually this happens automatically, but it can take a little while, potentially even hours in a case like this, where hundreds of pages might have been impacted. Just Alerting You Small Howbizr(t·c) 5:01 PM, 20 Jul 2009 (EDT)
BTW check out this and this if you want to see what I did, to start learning more about editing templates. Just Alerting You Small Howbizr(t·c) 5:04 PM, 20 Jul 2009 (EDT)
Like I said, I modified {{reputation}} as well. That "A H" example I added today. Just Alerting You Small Howbizr(t·c) 5:20 PM, 20 Jul 2009 (EDT)
You're counting "{{reputation|" as the first parameter. That's just the name of the template. There are only 3. Just Alerting You Small Howbizr(t·c) 5:23 PM, 20 Jul 2009 (EDT)

Achieving Alphabetization Edit

Actually, I preferred the "grouped by subject" order used by (eg) northrend quest achievements. I do like, though, combining the alliance and horde achievements into a single table row, where convenient. --Eirik Ratcatcher (talk) 21:49, 20 July 2009 (UTC)

Why don't you just use normal table, leave them in the original order, (no rowspan or colspan), and add the class "sortable?" Then you don't have to go through the pain of sorting them by hand. Just Alerting You Small Howbizr(t·c) 11:24 PM, 20 Jul 2009 (EDT)

Re: class="darktable sortable" Edit

It's a bit of a mix between how you value your time and value added. I'd recommend the sortable for the following reasons:

  • The user can decide how to sort the information, rather than you deciding for them, although I still think a meaningful default sort (category, alphabetical, grouped, etc) is still a good idea.
  • Manually sorting large pages, especially ones that change frequently like achievements, is a maintanence nightmare for editors. AKA they can out of date - fast, and it's pretty easy for an inexperienced editor to screw up the formatting big time. There will probably become a time when someone else is editing the page who isn't you, so keep that in mind.
  • "Display issues" really need to be a lower priority over utility and good writing, even though that line can blur. It's really nice to have "zebra tables" - whether implemented manually (class="alt") or with JavaScript. But I still think the sortable feature outweighs any small coloration issues.

My 2cents, as a developer and editor. Just Alerting You Small Howbizr(t·c) 1:10 PM, 21 Jul 2009 (EDT)

Show me where it's not working. I want to see this for myself. Just Alerting You Small Howbizr(t·c) 3:07 PM, 21 Jul 2009 (EDT)
Okay I'm involving User:Pcj. That's not a transclusion problem - that's an AJAX problem. The sortable javascript is run when the page is loaded. However, when the AJAX request returns the content you are seeing, that script is not executed again, so that's why the sorting isn't applied. But that seems fixable to me (by simply executing the javascript again during the ajax requests). Just Alerting You Small Howbizr(t·c) 3:55 PM, 21 Jul 2009 (EDT)
I'm sure it can be done, but at what cost (complexity or performance could be a problem). We'll just have to see. Just Alerting You Small Howbizr(t·c) 4:05 PM, 21 Jul 2009 (EDT)

Little formatting question Edit

How do you feel about this:

...or this:

...instead of this? Just Alerting You Small Howbizr(t·c) 6:34 PM, 21 Jul 2009 (EDT)

Hmmm I'll take a look at {{bc-inline}} etc. It might be fixable. Just Alerting You Small Howbizr(t·c) 6:57 PM, 21 Jul 2009 (EDT)
Now sorting works. Display=none FTW. Just Alerting You Small Howbizr(t·c) 7:10 PM, 21 Jul 2009 (EDT)

Gem Items Edit

Any further thoughts, vs my reply on Forum:Gem type categories? --Eirik Ratcatcher (talk) 17:53, 23 July 2009 (UTC)

Darktable Zebra Edit

... is not striping for me. Does it rely on javascript? If so, then ... it won't stripe for me. Be aware of that limitation when changing tables to that class. And be prepared for the whines of the minority... --Eirik Ratcatcher (talk) 20:58, 23 July 2009 (UTC)

But again, there's tons of Javascript all over this wiki and most of the internet. If you disable Javascript, you do so at your own peril. Almost no one codes to that standard anymore. Welcome to 2009 ;). Just Alerting You Small Howbizr(t·c) 6:19 PM, 23 Jul 2009 (EDT)
And there are websites (and their products) I do not buy from because their site is entirely unuseable without javascript/flash. Code to my needs or lose my custom. On the down side, it isn't by itself a discriminable category. Were I blind, it might make a difference. Then again, it'd be hard to raid while blind... --Eirik Ratcatcher (talk) 23:35, 23 July 2009 (UTC)
Again losing 5% (or far less) of your customer base and making the other 95% much much happier from the richer experience, I'll take the 95%. And if Javascript is too slow, try a superior browser that is highly optimized for Web 2.0 apps (like this wiki). Chrome and Safari 4 Beta are the fastest at the moment. The beta for Firefox is trailing behind, and IE8 is just pathetically slow. It's even slower than 6 and 7. Just Alerting You Small Howbizr(t·c) 9:44 PM, 23 Jul 2009 (EDT)
Yup, and so I sit in my cave, talking to my neighbor by the Pounded Log Intercom. Doesn't do any good, he's gone deaf, these last few millenia. Flash got my thumbs down in the era of "attention-grabbing ads", Javascript from security issues, and images from dialup speeds. And now I'm set in my ways. --Eirik Ratcatcher (talk) 18:43, 24 July 2009 (UTC)
Time to Flogg him and put him out of his misery. Smiley -- (M o r p hJames E. Rooks, Jr. aka: Morph
Morphgnome & Morphdraenei
| CMorph has made 8,564 contribution(s) to WoWWiki. | TLeave me a message on my Discussion/Talk Page) IconSmall Gnome MaleMorphgnomeIconSmall Draenei MaleMorphdraenei 18:55, 24 July 2009 (UTC)
Funny story, doing it automatically without JavaScript requires a browser which supports CSS3. --PcjWoWWiki admin (TDrop me a line!C62,301 contributions and counting) 22:27, 24 July 2009 (UTC)
Do those even exist yet? Just Alerting You Small Howbizr(t·c) 10:54 PM, 24 Jul 2009 (EDT)
Slightly. But of course CSS3 is still being worked on. --PcjWoWWiki admin (TDrop me a line!C62,301 contributions and counting) 02:57, 25 July 2009 (UTC)
Actually, looking at the nth-child selector implementation on that page, IE for Windows (Trident engine) would be the only one which didn't support it. --PcjWoWWiki admin (TDrop me a line!C62,301 contributions and counting) 03:00, 25 July 2009 (UTC)
The whole idea that we need a matrix of support makes me understand why people just throw up their hands and use Flash instead. Just Alerting You Small Howbizr(t·c) 12:00 AM, 25 Jul 2009 (EDT)
Heh, yeah, you should try debugging JS when stuff goes wrong in one obscure browser :P. BTW, this should now work without JS enabled in any browser except IE. (The IE and non-IE implementations don't behave exactly the same, but it's close enough.)--PcjWoWWiki admin (TDrop me a line!C62,301 contributions and counting) 04:02, 25 July 2009 (UTC)
Also, zebra tables now work when called in AJAX in browsers besides IE. --PcjWoWWiki admin (TDrop me a line!C62,301 contributions and counting) 04:05, 25 July 2009 (UTC)
Zebra not working thru {{Ajaxsub}} in IE ( as predicted ) but it is not thru Firefox either -- (M o r p hJames E. Rooks, Jr. aka: Morph
Morphgnome & Morphdraenei
| CMorph has made 8,564 contribution(s) to WoWWiki. | TLeave me a message on my Discussion/Talk Page) IconSmall Gnome MaleMorphgnomeIconSmall Draenei MaleMorphdraenei 04:38, 25 July 2009 (UTC)
It now works through AJAX in IE and older versions of Firefox. The JS and non-JS implementations should behave identically. --PcjWoWWiki admin (TDrop me a line!C62,301 contributions and counting) 14:32, 25 July 2009 (UTC)
Sortable tables now work through AJAX (there is currently an IE quirk but I am pretty sure it can be ironed out). --PcjWoWWiki admin (TDrop me a line!C62,301 contributions and counting) 15:38, 25 July 2009 (UTC)
Zebra is working thru {{Ajaxsub}} on all browsers now -- 16:36, 25 July 2009 (UTC)
IE quirk in AJAX sortable tables with zebra striping ironed out. --PcjWoWWiki admin (TDrop me a line!C62,301 contributions and counting) 17:39, 25 July 2009 (UTC)

Re: Template:Sort Edit

Plus then people aren't like "wtf you're adding a hidden span tag, why???" Just Alerting You Small Howbizr(t·c) 4:23 PM, 24 Jul 2009 (EDT)

Minor changes Edit

Can you check the box "This a minor edit" instead of using the comment "minor changes"? Or use "s/g", "spelling", "grammar", "WW:DNP", "formatting", "cleanup", "categories", or something else meaningful like that? Just Alerting You Small Howbizr(t·c) 5:06 PM, 24 Jul 2009 (EDT)

Also see the discussions I've had with Rolandius and Kirkburn about minor edits and the help page that describes them. --Eirik Ratcatcher (talk) 21:42, 24 July 2009 (UTC)
I had minor edits set before - and was told that some of my edits were NOT minor - so I quit setting it -- I would rather type ( actualy it is a auto-complete ) Minor changes -- but it wont show the M - for people that block minors - because you all will Overide them either way - so it is useless to Set the Minor changes setting -- (M o r p hJames E. Rooks, Jr. aka: Morph
Morphgnome & Morphdraenei
| CMorph has made 8,564 contribution(s) to WoWWiki. | TLeave me a message on my Discussion/Talk Page) IconSmall Gnome MaleMorphgnomeIconSmall Draenei MaleMorphdraenei 04:28, 25 July 2009 (UTC)
That being the case, then I'd just appreciate better edit summaries. I feel forced to look at a lot of your changes because I have no idea what changed. If you just said "formatting" or "s/g" I'd have a much better idea. Just Alerting You Small Howbizr(t·c) 12:33 AM, 25 Jul 2009 (EDT)

Re: template Patches Edit

I thought we should have a vote or a forum before overhauling the template. I don't think it really needs any changes at all, and I think the changes (while pretty) actually make it less functional. While I value A'noob's opinion, he's just one user. Just Alerting You Small Howbizr(t·c) 8:02 AM, 25 Jul 2009 (EDT)

Re: Achievement Groupings... Edit

Sounds good. Less is more. And yes, JavaScript will need to be enabled, which the vast majority of internet users have. There's no "Java" in a browser. If there is, it's like Flash, and you have to have an add-on installed. But Java applets are fairly rare these days. Just Alerting You Small Howbizr(t·c) 1:08 PM, 26 Jul 2009 (EDT)

Heads up Edit

We might have to roll back the auto-sorting for {{wow-inline}}, {{bc-inline}}, and {{wotlk-inline}}. Kd3 and/or Pcj found some problems. See the discussion here. Just Alerting You Small Howbizr(t·c) 10:03 PM, 26 Jul 2009 (EDT)

Problem with the NPC template Edit

Your change to {{NPC}}, while a good intention, breaks the Combat icons in the {{mob}} template so I rolled it back (Combat Icon 16x16 suddenly stopped appearing and Neutral 15 was showing in its place, which is often wrong since many mobs aren't friendly).

If you can figure out how to change {{NPC}} and keep the current behavior in {{mob}}, by all means. I'm done using the {{Mob/dev}} and {{NPC/dev}} pages, so you're welcome to them if you need to play around to fix it. Just Alerting You Small Howbizr(t·c) 11:54 PM, 26 Jul 2009 (EDT)

Re: wow/bc/wotlk... Edit

Ya if first unnamed parameter is not null (empty string works), sorting will happen. (view as code to see the difference):

{{subst:Wow-inline|}}

1WoW Icon 16x16


{{subst:Wow-inline}}

WoW Icon 16x16

Just Alerting You Small Howbizr(t·c) 12:11 AM, 27 Jul 2009 (EDT)

Okay apparently that's kind of confusing, but I'll update the documentation. Just use {{wow-inline|}} when you need sorting. Just Alerting You Small Howbizr(t·c) 12:12 AM, 27 Jul 2009 (EDT)
{{{1|}}} means "use the first param. If null is found, use empty string." You can also think of it as "use the first parameter, with empty string as the default value." In this case however, I don't want this "null value check." I need to differentiate between null and empty string. Hopefully that makes sense. Just Alerting You Small Howbizr(t·c) 12:34 AM, 27 Jul 2009 (EDT)

Re: Mob template Edit

So if you want to update {{FactionIcon}} to accept "combat" go for it. Just be careful - it's a highly used template. Just Alerting You Small Howbizr(t·c) 12:36 AM, 27 Jul 2009 (EDT)

The "XXX Crest" mouseovers come from {{FactionIcon}}. It's generating this wiki code [[File:Combat_15.gif|Combat Crest]]. I'd probably put an "ifeq" around the " Crest" part, so if it equals Combat, do something else, otherwise do " Crest." Just Alerting You Small Howbizr(t·c) 6:42 PM, 27 Jul 2009 (EDT)

Tiffany Cartier Edit

Saw that you edited it, and now it looks kind of weird (Added class="darktable zebra" and removed the |-class=alt tags). This means that some of the headlines (red, blue, purple and orange) are now colorless (or black/grey) instead of having the color they were attributed. Any idea on how to fix that? Cityhunter0505 - Etsuko (talk) 19:35, 31 July 2009 (UTC)

Fixed. Just Alerting You Small Howbizr(t·c) 4:18 PM, 31 Jul 2009 (EDT)
I might have jumped the gun. We'll have to see what City says. Just Alerting You Small Howbizr(t·c) 4:33 PM, 31 Jul 2009 (EDT)
I wouldn't change it. It looks good in IE7, Chrome, Firefox, most likely Safari (which is nearly identical to Chrome). If it's broken just for IE8 people, tough luck. That's what you get for going Microsoft. Just Alerting You Small Howbizr(t·c) 4:48 PM, 31 Jul 2009 (EDT)
Preaching to the choir. I'm a web applications developer. Just Alerting You Small Howbizr(t·c) 4:59 PM, 31 Jul 2009 (EDT)
In case you don't know the expression, it doesn't really mean 'stop preaching me.' It means, you're remarking on something I already agree with you on. See the first definition. Just Alerting You Small Howbizr(t·c) 5:10 PM, 31 Jul 2009 (EDT)
Looks like no one has a majority unless you combine multiple versions of IE, which is completely unfair because IE 6/7/8 are completely different browsers. My point being, for a small color issue on an obscure page (sorry JC pages are obscure), it's nothing to worry about. You can still read the content, it's just not as pretty as it would be if you used a superior browser. Just Alerting You Small Howbizr(t·c) 5:27 PM, 31 Jul 2009 (EDT)
Tiffany Cartier should now be fixed. Add class="nozebra" to any rows which are affected by zebra-stripe overwriting. --PcjWoWWiki admin (TDrop me a line!C62,301 contributions and counting) 17:59, 1 August 2009 (UTC)

Just a thought Edit

I know there are times when {{achievement}} just "looks simpler" but it's a kind of "dumb" template, which is good in some instances, bad in others. I see you doing things like:

{{alliance}}{{achievement|Strange Brew (Alliance)|Strange Brew}}

Official alliance mini-iconMoney achievement Strange Brew

If you had used {{achievementlong}}, you could have done this instead (watch carefully):

{{achievementlong|Strange Brew (Alliance)|faction=}}

Official alliance mini-iconInv drink 08 [Strange Brew]

Pretty nifty, huh? You get the achievement specfic icon, the appropriate faction icon, and an auto-disambig. You still may decide to stick with {{achievement}}, but I wanted to throw it out there. Just Alerting You Small Howbizr(t·c) 10:20 PM, 31 Jul 2009 (EDT)

Re: Bad images Edit

If I haven't said before, if an image isn't displaying correctly on some pages, all you can do is flag the image (not the page) as {{problem}} and an admin will fix it. Just Alerting You Small Howbizr(t·c) 12:04 PM, 2 Aug 2009 (EDT)

Ya I heard. I just wanted to re-iterate you don't need to re-upload the image. Normally that won't fix the problem. I'm not sure why it appeared to fix it in this case. Just Alerting You Small Howbizr(t·c) 3:12 PM, 2 Aug 2009 (EDT)

RE: Image uploads Edit

Any icon is better than no icon so long as its close... However, if the image is not exactly up to standards, yes please do use the {{cleanup}} template on them. Gourra seems to be handling most of the new icons as of late, poke him if you need him to find some. =) User:Coobra/Sig4 22:13, 2 August 2009 (UTC)

Re: Proftip default catagory Edit

This might be a documentation failure on my part. The default is enchanting because I expect to deprecate {{enchant}} (as well as {{embroid}}). If we do this, the majority of articles will be enchanting, so enchanting will usually be the correct answer. All the same, I think people using the template probably should always specify the profession, so it's isn't confusing.

But adding a "error category" probably isn't a bad idea. Do you want to try to do this (to exercise template skills)? If you don't feel comfortable, I can do it. Just Alerting You Small Howbizr(t·c) 6:24 PM, 2 Aug 2009 (EDT)

I'm sure it's a rule Edit

But I can't cite one off the top of my head, but for wiki-etiquette, please don't edit someone else's comments on talk pages. I can think of some instances where I did (when someone was deliberately falsifying something, or obscenity, etc), but while I know what you were trying to do, you changed the meaning of what I was trying to say. I think for the most part that's why we don't edit other people's comments, even if we know they were wrong or made a mistake. Just Alerting You Small Howbizr(t·c) 9:24 PM, 3 Aug 2009 (EDT)

"Badges" Edit

The badges (or whatever they are called) that I couldn't get to work were taken off since I couldn't get them to show right. I guess I didn't have the right names on some to make them appear like they should. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Gamerd (talk · contr).

Re: Achievement:Charger Edit

Ya even though an admin is doing it, I would continue putting achievements in the main namespace unless you hear otherwise. Just Alerting You Small Howbizr(t·c) 1:51 PM, 7 Aug 2009 (EDT)

Re: Un-safe coloring ?? Edit

Like I mentioned, read the documentation for Template:Text. If you're still unsure, we'll work on clarifying the documentation. Just Alerting You Small Howbizr(t·c) 3:06 PM, 7 Aug 2009 (EDT)

Re: Against the Odds achievement Edit

I don't trust the 3rd party websites - I know I've seen a bunch of things missing that are definitely in the game. Let's assume it's a bug unless we get a bluepost about the patch notes being wrong. Just Alerting You Small Howbizr(t·c) 6:37 AM, 8 Aug 2009 (EDT)

RE: Categories on Tier 9 items Edit

None of them are wrong or right, the way I do it is just another way of doing it - instead of adding the set categories to the individual set pieces, it can be done in the set tooltip instead. That way you only need to write the categories on the set article. --User:Gourra/Sig2 19:02, 11 August 2009 (UTC)

I was not talking about modifying {{settip}}, just the set article. See here. --User:Gourra/Sig2 21:20, 11 August 2009 (UTC)

Re: Brood of Onyxia Edit

The tooltip information is speculation (as in, we don't know the riding requirements, we don't know if it will be epic, we don't know what the effect text is, etc). Once it's in the PTR, uncomment it out. I was just saying, when it's in the PTR, you can replace the bluenote. It's just a hold-over. Just Alerting You Small Howbizr(t·c) 6:34 PM, 13 Aug 2009 (EDT)

Really I wouldn't bother. Even the page name is wrong. Like I said - this is just a stand-in page until we have the real item ID from a PTR. More than likely, the page will be something to the effect of "Reins of the Brood of Onyxia", etc etc. Just Alerting You Small Howbizr(t·c) 6:38 PM, 13 Aug 2009 (EDT)
Not always true, see things like Big Blizzard Bear, Amani War Bear, and Sea Turtle. User:Coobra/Sig4 22:46, 13 August 2009 (UTC)
Touché! Since this is a special mount, it might get some special text like with the [Sea Turtle]: This mount can't move very quickly on land, but she's a great swimmer, which is why I'd perfer we hold off on the tooltip for now. Just Alerting You Small Howbizr(t·c) 7:07 PM, 13 Aug 2009 (EDT)

Rows in tooltips and you Edit

When making line breaks with <br /> in tooltip templates ({{tooltip}}, {{settip}}), just use <br /> and write them on one line. Writing them like this won't break it:

{{loot|common|Item1}}<br />{{loot|common|Item1}}

However this will break it:

{{loot|common|Item1}}<br />
{{loot|common|Item2}}

Keep that in mind for the future. --User:Gourra/Sig2 19:34, 15 August 2009 (UTC)

Like Pcj said, it's not a problem when it's not broken: you will need to have all of the set item articles created in order to make the set tooltip work. --User:Gourra/Sig2 17:41, 19 August 2009 (UTC)

Requesting comments Edit

I know you mean well. I think in the future if you want to request comments on an issue, use {{comment}} or the forums, or start a question on a talk page of the appropriate article. Admins seem to be pretty good in general at monitoring the talk namespace for questions. But if you still want to leave them a message, point everyone to a single question, rather than spreading out the conversation over multiple pages. Just Alerting You Small Howbizr(t·c) 11:48 PM, 16 Aug 2009 (EDT)

I wasn't trying to say you were doing something against policy - more that your effort, which is more time consuming on your part (it's easy to look up "recent changes to talk pages"), is making any discussion needed harder to have, by not bringing interested parties to one place.
Again I think I know what you're trying to say, but there also isn't really a sense of private on a wiki. So it just seemed counterproductive. Not to mention, you're talking about editing a protected template that impacts hundreds of pages if not thousands of pages, it should be a public discussion. Just Alerting You Small Howbizr(t·c) 12:19 AM, 17 Aug 2009 (EDT)

Tooltip/Dev Edit

Ya I think I'm going to move it to "/dev" so it's like the other ones. But I'll wait 'til you're done using it for now, to avoid any confusion. If you didn't see, I also added a {{ambox}} to the doc about the sandbox, because I nearly did the same thing you did. Just Alerting You Small Howbizr(t·c) 5:53 AM, 17 Aug 2009 (EDT)

Russian servers change Edit

I've completely overlooked the correct categorization, fairly new poster here. :) Thanks for your input! -Elireyn (talk) 06:47, 19 August 2009 (UTC)

Stub/PTR Edit

I believe you did something of a disservice in changing stub/PTR to stub/Item, in that it is now much more difficult to identify those items specifically changed by 3.2.0. ... Although many of the PTR stubs did not actually label the patch they were related to. Guess I can try backtracking your trail... --Eirik Ratcatcher (talk) 19:24, 26 August 2009 (UTC)

Looks like Stub/PTR does not work as nicely as {{removedfromgame}} does. :( --Eirik Ratcatcher (talk) 19:30, 26 August 2009 (UTC)
Our edits may have crossed in the mail. In any case, I am writing a T:Stub/Updated along the lines of {{removedfromgame}} as a special case. Hopefully, any categories created by it can be retired as editors make updates. In any case, I had seen the functionality of Removedfromgame, and thought PTR had the same. My error. Apologies if I upset you. --Eirik Ratcatcher (talk) 19:40, 26 August 2009 (UTC)
Category and stub created. See my comment on Template Talk:Stub/PTR. Be BOLD where appropriate. And thanks for your patience. --Eirik Ratcatcher (talk) 20:25, 26 August 2009 (UTC)
Should I assume, then, that you approve? --Eirik Ratcatcher (talk) 23:47, 26 August 2009 (UTC)

WoW professions category Edit

Category:WoW professions is not new and was made to distinguish WoW professions from professions in the RPG mostly, but also lore professions. --Gengar orange 22x22Beware the sneaky smile! Fandyllic (talk · contr) 5:19 PM PST 27 Aug 2009

Gladiator set rename Edit

I thought it'd be better to let the actual set names (e.g. Gladiator set) be the name in the category instead of a name like Season 1 set because it's the name. That was not possible with gladiator set of season 5 which includes multiple sets (savage, hateful, deadly gladiator). I just think we should be as close to the game data as possible. Eruantien (talk) 08:11, 28 August 2009 (UTC)

I know I know, but the tier-sets are actually named "Tier 1", "Tier 2" etc., and the dungeon sets are actually named "dungeon set 1" etc. officially, but the gladiator sets etc are named with prefixes (merciless gladiator, brutal gladiator etc.). Thats why I thought it'd be better to keep to the official naming scheme. Eruantien (talk) 13:26, 29 August 2009 (UTC)
Well I always thought of categories less as a searching place and more as a 'behind the scenes'-database-like place. But oh well, I don't really mind. Eruantien (talk) 00:31, 31 August 2009 (UTC)

I'm only following half the saga here, but... It is certainly possible to have "Season 1 Gladiator Set" redirect to "Friendly Gladiator Set" (or whatever), or vice versa. With multiple names, perhaps Season 5 Gladiator Set can have subheadings each for Savage, Hateful, etc; with (eg) Savage Gladiator Set redirecting to "Season 5 Gladiator Set#Savage". And redirect pages CAN be categorized, even if they have no content of their own. --Eirik Ratcatcher (talk) 20:09, 31 August 2009 (UTC)

Re: Faction change Edit

This is sort of a general comment, and please don't take it offensively, but I think you and several other editors could stand to be a bit bolder on these kinds of things. Marking the pages as {{merge}} would be sufficient. You don't need to leave people little notes on their talk page, especially when it's this obvious.

Remember the mantra, "It's easier to ask for forgiveness than permission." The community trusts your judgement, and honestly we don't want to be informed of the thought process of each editor. Just make the change, and if someone has a problem with it, they'll make the change, too. Really I think lately, the community has been slowing down good changes with far too much discussion. Smiley Just Alerting You Small Howbizr(t·c) 7:44 PM, 4 Sep 2009 (EDT)

Let me start this again with, please don't take this offensively. I'm not trying to attack you. I'm trying to help you, because I've noticed your behavior seems to have changed. To be honest, I suspect your editing behavior is actually by bad example, from other community members.
So if you're having some problems with "admins" maybe that's a separate issue that needs to be addressed. But that is very unfortunate that you feel crippled in this way. For WW:BOLD, maybe you're having problems because you made broad changes on some kind of touchy subject. I frequently have people undoing my edits. But it doesn't stop me from doing what I feel is right, without asking first. Personally, I'd rather you made the change, and if you were really worried you would offend someone (remember, pages aren't "owned" by anyone), leaving a message after the fact might be more appropriate than telling someone else to make a change for you that you feel is appropriate.
But again, I'd assume, especially for editors with over 500 edits, they're comfortable with the watch button. They'll know you changed "their work" without a note on their talk page. Really, I'm just trying to save you the hassle, like in this case where you probably took longer writing me a note, than it would have taken to flag the pages for merging.
Again this is my own opinion, and I'm probably not the only one, I do not really want a warning when people undo "my changes." I fully expect people to do this without telling me. Even on pages I'm passionate about, it's my responsibility, not the responsibility of other editors, to respond if I have a problem with the subsequent edits.
I would encourage you to keep editing boldly, however, and just assume good faith for all parties, even parties you often disagree with. More than likely, the editor changing your work, who may or may not be an admin, was also assuming good faith. If they mostly undid your work, they just happened to disagree with your opinion. More than likely, they probably felt they were improving the page, not starting a personal vendetta.
When you get full blown undos, especially across several pages, that's when I think discussion is necessary. Or if you strongly anticipate this, maybe it would be necessary. But again, like it says in WW:BOLD, "being bold is generally a defensible position."
And all of this protocol/etiquette stuff is fully outlined in the policies and guidelines pages. Feel free to cite them to people if you feel you aren't being treated courteously, whether its an admin or otherwise. Those pages themselves may also identify why some of the edits were made, especially related to WW:MOS. I know I certainly can't memorize all of that information in my head. Just Alerting You Small Howbizr(t·c) 8:18 PM, 4 Sep 2009 (EDT)
I hope that it does not appear as if I am biting you, although from as frustrated as you sound, maybe that happened anyways. Again, to try to make you understand where I'm coming from, I'm trying to help.
I think at this time, this would be best resolved by specific examples. Maybe if we get them out in the open we can resolve this, or at least improve the situation. If you don't feel free to make thoughtful good edits on the wiki, then there's a problem with the wiki, and I'd like to get that fixed.
So can you find an issue that made you feel this way (that you should no long be bold on this wiki)? Just Alerting You Small Howbizr(t·c) 8:54 PM, 4 Sep 2009 (EDT)

Unabashed advertising Edit

If you care to make a comment on this editing guideline, comments would be appreciated. Just Alerting You Small Howbizr(t·c) 2:21 PM, 23 Sep 2009 (EDT)

Active editors Edit

BTW, if you haven't found this page already, Special:RecentChanges, it might give you an idea of just how many active editors there are. Even if the average editor just makes a small number of changes, it really adds up. Although you're right; when you look at the counts, it seems like it's a small pool of folks. Just Alerting You Small Howbizr(t·c) 7:59 PM, 23 Sep 2009 (EDT)

Having problems with being reverted? Edit

You complained on Howbizr's talk page about getting reverted by admins. Are there several admins who've been doing this to you or just a specific few? --Gengar orange 22x22Beware the sneaky smile! Fandyllic (talk · contr) 8:32 PM PST 23 Sep 2009

Professions Edit

Would you mind, if I totally hacked apart Profession#Bonuses_you_only_get_with_a_certain_Profession? While it conveys useful information, I think that, as it stands, it looks absolutely horrid. In part (IMO), it is too detailed. In part, too haphazard/non-uniform. I think it would look much much better as a series of sub-sections, than as a monolithic table. --Eirik Ratcatcher (talk) 18:37, October 1, 2009 (UTC)

Would you take a look at my replacement for the section? I felt that a general description of the items / bonuses / abilities - with a link to the more specific elements - served the Profession page better than listing everything under the sun. More so as I got down to Tailoring and found it incorrectly listed "Swift Flying Carpet". ... be gentle... :) --Eirik Ratcatcher (talk) 21:25, October 1, 2009 (UTC)
I intend to convert the tailoring patterns to the scheme used by leatherworking patterns, pages and all. I could find no sign of coherent authorship on these pages, so I don't know who would most object (should objections be made). Would you object to such a change? --Eirik Ratcatcher (talk) 21:35, October 1, 2009 (UTC)

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