User talk:Ragestorm
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Older comments moved to User talk:Ragestorm/Archive1 or User talk:Ragestorm/Archive2 or User talk:Ragestorm/Archive3 or User talk:Ragestorm/Archive4 or User talk:Ragestorm/Archive5 or User talk:Ragestorm/Archive6 or User talk:Ragestorm/Archive7 or User talk:Ragestorm/Archive8 or User talk:Ragestorm/Archive9.
All conversation welcome; however, I will ignore any User who uses Outland in the plural, and don't expect sympathy if you're complaining about retcons or lore inconsistencies. Also, if you use a custom signature ruthlessly stolen from Kirkurn's, I'm likely to be less polite; that's the price of unoriginality. Also be advised that I may turn nasty if you're someone who thinks Illidan is just the greatest- sorry, he's not. --Ragestorm (talk · contr)
Afternoon
Welcome back :) I thought you should be appraised of this conversation I had a short while back - wikipedia:User talk:Qitelremel. Kirkburn talk contr 16:32, 19 February 2008 (UTC)
- Indeed. I can recall the existence of such a debate (I'm pretty sure that that was the appropriate term to use on his part), and I can agree that I was probably rude about it, as I often am, but it will take me a while to relocate it.--Ragestorm (talk · contr) 16:45, 19 February 2008 (UTC)
Yay! Rage is back!!! This place has been to hell and back since you've been gone :D Warchiefthrall 22:35, 19 February 2008 (UTC)
- So I see. Fortunately, the schemes of the Deceiver (I actually mean Kil'jaeden here) shall not thwart our efforts! On a related note, I shall hold a service thanking Elune that the M'uru mess has finally been sorted out. --Ragestorm (talk · contr) 00:54, 20 February 2008 (UTC)
Sir! I have a question.
I have recently read Rise of the Horde, and I just couldn't figure out what creatures the orcs say they have found, killed and eaten at the very end of the book (page 349), when the first scouts return from their investigations in the Black Morass. Could you tell me what critters they were talking about, from their description?--K ) (talk) 18:00, 5 March 2008 (UTC)
- Don't have the book in front of me, but I would guess sheep, pigs, or some totally mundane Azeroth animal. --Ragestorm (talk · contr) 18:50, 5 March 2008 (UTC)
- Don't get me wrong. I bother you because I don't think they are that mundane.
One was a reptile of some sort, scaly, long-tailed, with stubby legs and huge jaws. The other was a four-legged, furry thing, with claws on all four of its feet, a long tail, small rounded ears and spots on its yellow glossy coat.
Am I wrong? What do you reckon?--K ) (talk) 23:30, 5 March 2008 (UTC)
- Azerothian zoology is not my strong suit, but based on those descriptions, those sound like a crocodile and a jaguar. --Ragestorm (talk · contr) 04:11, 6 March 2008 (UTC)
Discussion Pages
What's the policy on content posted in discussion pages? Sandwichman2448 recently commented in my user talk page about a response I made on a discussion page and how I'm not allowed to put "opinion" in them. Do I have that bad of a rep for posting speculation in articles? :) I thought I did a good job of keeping canon separated from speculation. Please tell me that things haven't changed here so much you can't even talk about your personal opinion in an article discussion page! That's what that page is for, right? --Xmuskrat 00:03, 16 April 2008 (UTC)
- As far as I know, the policy is still that we prefer non-editorial discussions not happen, but I'm fairly certain that opinions in the general sense aren't forbidden. Admittedly, people don't seem to tell me things any more, but I'm pretty certain of that. --Ragestorm (talk · contr) 00:38, 16 April 2008 (UTC)
- This does just appear to be a communication issue. No biggie. --Xmuskrat 01:46, 16 April 2008 (UTC)
Crazy People Nomination
- You have been nominated as a "Crazy person", a.k.a. "a really helpful and cool wowwikian"; if you will accept it. ;) --
V - Talk / Spam 09:03, 17 April 2008 (UTC)
- Heh, sardonic as always. ;D
- But if you ever change your mind about yourself, it's there for you. --V - Talk / Spam 16:56, 17 April 2008 (UTC)
NPOV vs Blizzard's lore
I may be bringing something that was justly killed up again, but what is WoWWiki's stance when a neutral point of view defies Blizzard? A good portion of the Scarlet Crusade article's talk page deals with people saying the Scarlet Crusade is not at all as evil in their actions as cited quotes say them to be. The Crusade is widely viewed as evil because they attack everyone outside their ranks. The quotes are likely in-universe from the perspective of the people getting attacked, not unbiased third-person. I think the debate peaked when this very long post was linked. Though it twists facts, gets things wrong, and assumes much, it fueled the debate considerably). The Crusade is not the only example, take for instance this un-editorial discussion about the Old Gods. The Old Gods are considered evil because they want all the titan's creations (the playable and most other races) dead, but are their actions 'wrong'? I do not think these debates, and other ones like them if any, were ever resolved. Is it a big 'NO' to add at least a footnote on these views in the articles?--Sandwichman2449 22:30, 4 May 2008 (UTC)
- I'll get back to you on official stance, but my personal opinion is that NPOV is more to do with avoiding player or user bias into the articles. In-universe or Blizzard-based bias is a different situation. The Old Gods, for example are described as "evil" the very first time they are mentioned; possibly from the Titans' POV, but then how would that fit into their numerous genocidal plans? Perfect objectivity doesn't exist.
- I am utterly opposed to user views within articles (except for speculatory comments, of course). I'd like nothing more than to delete the controversy pages. As far as I'm concerned, the only Lore opinions that have any business in articles are those that are published with a Blizzard Entertainment logo or written by someone working in a building with such a logo. --Ragestorm (talk · contr) 05:01, 5 May 2008 (UTC)
Night elves controversaries
Since you are a loremaster and keen on night elves I have some questions, or discussion topics regarding this race.
1. Why would their thousands-year-old language be named after a city build a decade ago?
2. Why would the new and unblessed world tree be much bigger than Nordrassil, the original world tree?
3. Why would they call themselves night elves 15 000 years ago when there were just no other types of elves? (maybe Knaak wanted to make clear to the reader)
Some of these may be due to retcons or game mechanics but I just wanted to hear your opinion.Dakovski (talk) 17:29, 14 May 2008 (UTC)
- 1. I haven't the foggiest.
- 2. Personally, I don't think it's bigger lore-wise, as most of Nordrassil was atop a mountain and not inhabited. Antother explanation is that Staghelm thought "bigger is better" and that Teldrassil is bigger because the night elves were trying to recreate the blessings of the Aspects with only their own power.
- 3. One could argue that that the idea of elves that were not night elves never occured to them, such as we are "human beings" even though there aren't humans that aren't beings, nor have we encountered "beings" that aren't human (depending strongly on definition). Another (more outlandish) argument is that the entire trilogy is translated from Darnassian, and that Knaak as translator turned "kaldorei" into "night elves." My lack of faith in his style and my dislike of his WotA story make me doubt this theory. --Ragestorm (talk · contr) 21:51, 14 May 2008 (UTC)
- Man, Baggins, you stole my answer. Here I was, thinking I was all clever for thinking of that, and you did it first. Lckyluke372 (talk) 00:08, 25 May 2008 (UTC)
lore.....
Bunny isle and funnybunny are listed as "lore from wc3", they sure are from wc3, but really, i dont think they´re part of lore, hogger sake! E: sorry, forgot my signature, M1330 (talk) 15:25, 21 May 2008 (UTC)
- I agree. Tag it with the {{silly}} template, which should probably be updated to include Blizzard jokes. --Ragestorm (talk · contr) 17:55, 21 May 2008 (UTC)
- Silly template is actually only to be used on fan created warcraft material. Blizzard jokes is too broad of a designation. Alot of things in Blizzard games are injokes, or puns, or some sort of humor. Many many character names in WoW though. Yes things may be silly in official Blizzard games, but that doesn't automatically mean they should be marked as such. We maintain a neutral point of view on this issue, and silly is a subjective terminology. Also bone up on the neutral definition of lore given in our policy page... Which is to include backstories from Warcraft III scenarios, with the caveat that they may have little to do with main warcraft universe. But that is not for us to judge.Baggins (talk) 16:53, 22 May 2008 (UTC)
Humans
Aww, man, I really liked that quote, oh well, I understand why you took it down. Lckyluke372 (talk) 00:14, 22 May 2008 (UTC)
- It's a great one-liner, I'll admit, but Brox's view of war is a distinctly orcish view, which is notably different from any other race's, so it doesn't really say anything about human or kaldorei warfare, except that Stareye was incompetent (although I could be getting the context wrong on that one).--Ragestorm (talk · contr) 12:56, 22 May 2008 (UTC)
I think that was the first time he encountered Malfurion, while he was on the run from the moonguard, he talks about how Night Elves are too skinny and don't wear enough armor and how much more interesting and challenging a fight Humans were. Of course, I suppose Brox's specialty would be hand-to-hand combat, and Night Elves don't seem to be as good at that as humans. Really I just like it because in fantasy we're always the "in-between" race, we're never the best at anything, we're just all around fighters. It's good to feel appreciated isn't it? Of course, he might like humans because humans are just about the only Alliance race who really took the Orcs on in their element and did any good except the draenei: the dwarves just holed up in Ironforge and made it a protracted siege, the Elves all fight the orcs through hit-and-run attacks, and Gnomes fight mainly through Magic and technology, while the humans seem to the be the only Alliance race besides the Draenei capable or willing enough to fight the orcs out in the open. Lckyluke372 (talk) 17:42, 22 May 2008 (UTC)
- True. Biologically speaking, Elves are athletic and lean- though male Night elves tend to have densely packed muscular frames (which could easily be artistic liscense), hence they would be more suited to hit-and-run tactics, ranged attack, and quick melee. Agility and speed are their strengths, while orcs, though shorter, are physically stronger and rely on strength over speed. The humans can probably rely on either tactic, so they could meet the orcs on a more familiar field. Also, the elves Brox went up against were gaudy, barely trained (apart from the Moonguard) militia serving near the heart of the Kaldorei empire, whereas the humans he would have fought were well-trained professional soldiers fighting for the race's very survival.--Ragestorm (talk · contr) 20:21, 22 May 2008 (UTC)
Yes, but we know he fought alongside the highly-trained Sentinels at the very least, first impressions are everything after all. Hell, he may have even fought against them before they became allies. Lckyluke372 (talk) 14:37, 27 May 2008 (UTC)
- Even so, see above; though perfectly viable from a combative or tactical standpoint, Kaldorei or even Sentinel fighting style would have been vastly different from those of orcs and humans. Brox's opinion that humans are more interesting opponents doesn't say anything about kaldorei martial arts apart from the fact that he didn't like it. To compare, look at a choice of weapons. I enjoy dual-wielding or using polearms. I find these styles and choices more elegant and interesting than using a single weapon and a shield. I don't think that this makes an opponent that uses such a style is less threatening or less skilled, just less interesting. Similarly, I am most interested in the lore and culture of the elven races. Does this mean I think the humans or the orcs or the trolls have less viable history? Of course not, I am simply less interested.--Ragestorm (talk · contr) 23:48, 27 May 2008 (UTC)
Yes, but the quote was "interesting and worthy" opponents, "worthy" has a connotation of value and quality. Lckyluke372 (talk) 21:55, 29 May 2008 (UTC)
From Broxigar's point of view, the night elves were less worthy. Brox was a master of his art, and his simple (though of course not unintelligent) warriors' mind did not really understand how the night elves' fighting style, one that works great for their body build, makes them just as deadly in battle as humans, a race that has a body build somewhere between an orcs' and that of a night elf. Like Rage said, either fighting tactic can work for a human, but they often combine aspects of both, using strength and speed. Mostly strength. Humans obviously fight more like orcs, and this is why Brox thought they were more interesting to fight. Because he can compare his expert warrior skills and mind to that of humans. So again, because he had little knowledge or experience with elves, he went off their thin appearance and dubbed them less worthy than humans in battle. It seems I have forgotten the date... so I hope I have posted this before the point where replying to a post becomes awkward. If not, I guess it's just too bad. --Mesethusela (talk) 19:31, 23 June 2008 (UTC)
Common
How is it possible that so many race speaks common, even if they never had contact, can speak common. Like ogres and orcs in outland? M1330 (talk) 12:59, 30 May 2008 (UTC)
- Deus ex Machina. Well, Orcs and ogres would have picked it up as a result of being in Azeroth (one could argue that Ogre-magi also learned it magically via the Altars of Storms, but that would mean they could speak Thalassian as well). If Common (language) doesn't offer further clues, ask the Hobbit for whatever half-brained explanation is used in the RPG. --Ragestorm (talk · contr) 14:49, 30 May 2008 (UTC)
Perhaps common is version of Titan (language), known by Earthens, ancestors of many humanoid races. btw if you are referring to baggins, he had no answer, or didnt tell it.... —The preceding unsigned comment was added by M1330 (talk · contr).
- You're still jumping around... stay on one page, and sign sign sign your posts.
{T•C) 19:41, 30 May 2008 (UTC)
- The answer is as best as its explained is already in the Common article. Officially most of the main races have their own languages, but almost every race also knows common as their primary languages as well. Yes its weird. But its pretty much been that way since the early RTS especially in Warcraft III. Races who had never met would encounter each other and already know how to communicate with each other. Ogres speak Low Common as their language. Sure Blizzard could introduce an ogre language, it just hasn't been done yet. Generally speaking its best to avoid speculating about things that haven't been introduced yet. Fanfic is not allowed.Baggins (talk) 15:47, 31 May 2008 (UTC)
I have a question. Hope you understand me.
Hi Ragestorm. I'm a new user of WoWWiki. Therefor I'm honestly quite a newb. Since it looks like you are a experienced user i would like to ask you. My editing so far has been adding links to some articles. But if one word is written more than once in an article,[example "Horde") should I make All "Horde's" in that article links? Or should I only make the first "Horde" a link, and leave the rest to be normal text? Hope you understand, and answer to a newb. Hewbie (talk) 12:41, 31 May 2008 (UTC)
- Only link the first instance. If it is a particularly long article, it's alright to occasionally link a later occurence near the end. Also, an infobox doesn't count, so a character biography can have a link to Horde in the intro and in the infobox under affiliation, but not elsewhere in the text. --Ragestorm (talk · contr) 15:41, 31 May 2008 (UTC)
Old God
Hi, Sky2042 said that Hakkar is not Old God, and Branns writings are just speculation, not real source, is that Really true? M1330 (talk) 09:14, 1 June 2008 (UTC)
- See his talk page for exact translation of that question. --Sky (t · c · w) 09:18, 1 June 2008 (UTC)
Scarlet Crusade
Scarlet crusade is listed as Lawful evil, but it is just trying to do good (not gain power), so why is it listed as evil. thanks. Kesmana (talk) 10:29, 1 June 2008 (UTC)
- Evil is much more complicated than simply wanting power. The worst kind of evil is the narrow-minded good that only sees the world in black and white, like the Scarlet Crusade or the real-world Inquistion. One can also seek power yet still be good, like the politician or Kirin Tor archmage who geuinely wants to help. That, and that's the alignment the RPG gives it.--Ragestorm (talk · contr) 12:53, 1 June 2008 (UTC)
your right thanks Kesmana (talk) 12:32, 3 June 2008 (UTC)
Species
User:Rolandius vandalizes species article, puts gryphons to dragons, ogremages to gronns, hippogryphs to centaurs, tell him few facts about lore. thanks M1330 (talk) 13:20, 9 June 2008 (UTC)
- I will look into it. You might want to work on your reporting language. --Ragestorm (talk · contr) 17:40, 9 June 2008 (UTC)
In-game lore texts on WoWWiki?
I have grown more interested in Azeroth's history as I play. At first the materials in the published game guide sufficed me, but now I am discovering other chunks of lore in inns all over the world. It is highly inconvenient reading these while a spell or poison is dribbling away, so I began to wonder if they are available (verbatim, but not necessarily format as they are in-game) elsewhere--like, here, for instance. If so, I would like to know where they are cached. Can anyone help me? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Ozmirage (talk · contr).
- We don't duplicate and store every piece of in-game lore here, but a number of in-game sources are duplicated as part of quest articles. We deal more with encyclopedic information; if an innkeeper tells a story about Jaina Proudmoore, the information is referenced in her article. If you wish to familiarize yourself with Azeroth's history, I recommend playing the previous games, reading the novels, or just browsing WoWWiki. --Ragestorm (talk · contr) 20:36, 11 June 2008 (UTC)
Say what?
I know Sargeras is a vanir titan and not a demon titan. I thought, call me confused, that those were two seperate titles as they are two seperate links. It looked to me like this Demon/Vanir and Titan/Dark titan. So I thought I would make it more neat as Vanir/Demon and then leave Titan/Dark titan as it was. It is not my fault it looks like two seperate titles. Rolandius 
(talk - contr) 01:46, 15 June 2008 (UTC)
- Yes, that could use rearranging. Baggins was trying to link to the two separately. Try another arrangement.--Ragestorm (talk · contr) 02:17, 15 June 2008 (UTC)
Burning Legion#Command structure
I want explanations why I have been treated like a vandal and my change was reverted without any description why. Please now explain why have you reverted it, because you had no reasons. Severin Andrews 18:56, 16 June 2008 (UTC)
- I used the rollback revert because I was in a hurry, I apologize. I admit I acted in haste, you are not being treated as a vandal . Garona Helforcen's alleigance, while an interesting question, did not include the Burning Legion. Though the Shadow Council was an extension of Gul'dan, who was an agent of the Legion, saying that Garona is affiliated with the Legion would be like saying that Malfurion Stormrage is affiliated with the Scourge because he stopped Illidan from destroying Northrend. --Ragestorm (talk · contr) 19:19, 16 June 2008 (UTC)
- Garona was an agent of the Shadow Council, as stated in the Last Guardian, definitely. And Shadow Council was Legion's pawn so Garona was indirectly associated with the Legion, just in the same manner as Arthas - who at a time was agent of Scourge which was then arm of Legion. Arthas's and Garona's associations with Legion were in the same grade at some points and Arthas is mentioned there while Garona is not. Severin Andrews 19:57, 16 June 2008 (UTC)
- The entire section is under review anyway. I don't think Arthas should be there anyway, although it should be pointed out that Arthas at least knew his masters were of the Legion, where Garona did not. Addendum: If you feel that strongly, you can put it under the Notable Former Allies section, but I still feel the connection is thinner than Arthas.--Ragestorm (talk · contr) 19:59, 16 June 2008 (UTC)
WoWwiki
I need to talk to you asap.--K ) (talk) 00:44, 29 June 2008 (UTC)
Not a forum
- Understood. However, as I currently don't have an active subscription and thus can't post in the game forums, I just had to push this off somewhere from my head.. But I guess I'll turn this in to the RP forum once I can afford to renew my subscr. --RocketBrother (talk) 20:38, 6 July 2008 (UTC)