Talk: WoWWiki-Vorbis

Low Common?

Is "Low Common" an oficial term used somewhere in canon sources?--User:TopDread

I just followed up a link and made a few logical assumptions. I'd think it does exist somewhere in canon lore, but you'll have to ask the guy who put it in the 'other known languages' table. --User:Vorbis/Sig

Low Common is mentioned in the RPG books.Baggins 22:52, 7 December 2006 (EST)

Alliance of Lordaeron

According to the RPG, it says that leaders of the Lordaeron were at that meeting rather than just "Representives" in a few different books, for example;

"Lothar met with the leaders of the seven nations of Lordaeron...The Alliance of Lordaeron was formed."Template:CiteBaggins 15:18, 7 December 2006 (EST)

or from the in-game book in World of Warcraft, The Alliance of Lordaeron, it states;

"the leaders of the seven human nations met and agreed to unite in what would become known as the Alliance of Lordaeron."Baggins 22:52, 7 December 2006 (EST)

Demon Names

To avoid confusion, I must ask that you not start changing "pit lord" to "anihilan" or "succubi" to "sayaad." It's going to be extremly confusion to anyone who isn't aware of the Exodar holograms. they're still going to be referred to as Pit lords and Succubi, we just happen to know their racenames. Think of Night elf vs. kaldorei. --Ragestorm 12:41, 22 December 2006 (EST)

Ok, sure. I'll go revert it. :) --User:Vorbis/Sig

Thanks :-)--Ragestorm 12:49, 22 December 2006 (EST)

I've made refrence that pit lord is more of a class within the Annihilan.Baggins 12:50, 22 December 2006 (EST)

Sentience/Sapience

Be prepared to explain yourself a lot, and ready your references. --Ragestorm (talk · contr) 22:36, 2 July 2007 (UTC)

Hmm... I am quite sure that 'sapient' is the correct term for fully concious beings, with 'sentient' reserved beings with only the capacity for basic consciousness - the ability to feel or perceive, not necessarily including the faculty of self-awareness. Nevertheless, judging from your reaction, maybe it would be best if I left it as it is.--User:Vorbis/Sig

You mistake my tone. I only meant to warn you that most sci-fi fans, particularly Star Wars fans, will think it's a mistake and start reverting (I say this from experience with similar issues). I think you're right, by the actual definitions, just keep references handy in the event of reversion. --Ragestorm (talk · contr) 15:49, 3 July 2007 (UTC)

I apologise. :) --User:Vorbis/Sig

I am forever doomed by my writing. In black-and-white: you're right, just be prepared to defend against those who are wrong! --Ragestorm (talk · contr) 21:03, 3 July 2007 (UTC)

No, I got the point of your last message; I was apologising for my misjudgement. ^^ In any case, thanks for the words of warning. Update: I think that's all of it done... ^_^--User:Vorbis/Sig

Good. Now that we've made a big deal of it, there probably won't be an issue. Ah, the woes of a Bookkeeper.--Ragestorm (talk · contr) 22:56, 3 July 2007 (UTC)

I'd like to point out that most blizzard sources use, "sentience" rather than "sapience". Case in point check out the website article for eredun in warcraft encyclopedia.[1] A good reason to note is that felhunter may have a simple form of sentience and understand "Eredun" but does not have the wisdom or is physically evolved to speak it. Also, while most, if not all people are sentient, not all have sapience (wisdom).Baggins 07:53, 10 August 2007 (UTC)

Bookkeepers

I'm planning to finally finish that revamp in the next week or so. Afterwards, Kirochi and I will be reviewing all standing applications and assigning titles and duties. --Ragestorm (talk · contr) 21:38, 6 July 2007 (UTC)

Can I join? I do not own many WoW-related books though...--SWM2448 21:43, 6 July 2007 (UTC)

Apply on the Bookkeepers application page. ;) --User:Vorbis/Sig

Well, I did... seems like a negative-ad against me...--SWM2448 19:14, 7 July 2007 (UTC)

Deleting Images

Why do you keep removing the images I add to pages? There is no wiki policy about not having fan art. The images are high quality and add to the article. please explain.

PS. The images are not mine, I found them across the web, many are from blizzard's fan art program, which receives an item on blizzard's WoW website (worldofwarcraft.com) whenever it is updated. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Rani (talk · contr).

If they're from blizz's fanart program, I would implore you to say so on the image descriptions, and then put them back. Otherwise, how are we to distinguish between something that might possibly be sanctioned and something that isn't? --User:Sky2042/Sig 21:16, 21 July 2007 (UTC)

* So you are saying that as long as I mention the source of the image and confirm that it's not copyrighted and we can use it then I can add it? fair enough. --Rani 22:11, 21 July 2007 (UTC)

Future Race Ideas

I've protected Future Race Ideas for next few days in order to prevent a case of war editing, and non-cited comments, many that seemed as nitpicks or anal retentive remarks at obscure things just to find a reason add more negative reasons to races. One such example is tossing up Garithos on several races, and using him as a negative as to why races wouldn't join the Alliance, your welcome to read the discussion. Other times official cited quote/reference was removed or changes because someone "disagreed" with what was said (same person actually). Anycase rather than block him, I've told him to discuss ideas for changes in the talk page, and let his peers decide if the changes should be made, rather than initiating edit wars.

In anycase I feel like you that if we tossed up every single nitpick for every single race, the thread would be bloated and go beyond the intent of what the topic was designed for. It is not meant to be a thread for Horde and Alliance roleplayers to continue the Horde/Alliance tensions outside of the game. But rather point out reasons why or why not Blizzard would choose to use those races as playable races, and reasons that they have given for why they would fit better more with one faction or the other.

I might suggest that perhaps we can leave the topic completely protected for a while, and make it entirely edited only by suggestions that have undergone peer review in its talk page. Keeping full editorial control to sysop staff, in order to prevent the inevitable horde/alliance headbutting.Baggins 04:00, 22 July 2007 (UTC)

Suits me. It would be nice to give the poor page a bit of peace for a while! :) --User:Vorbis/Sig

Amen to that... Admins in Irc agree as well, :).Baggins 17:13, 22 July 2007 (UTC)

I did not necessarily make all of it Horde-biased, and I have changed it to be neutral. I feel the Pandarens would be in the Horde because Blizzard really isn't hypocritical. (As to note, Blizzard wanted people to play on the Horde, and used the Blood Elves to get what they want, if they notice that more people still play Alliance, they're going to place Pandarens on the Horde, via lore add-ons. And Metzen likes to use the element of surprise. I am allowing you to edit said stuff so long as you keep everything peachy. The Bael Modan portion that shows the Pandaren's philosophies are that friendship and honor are above all else. Why can't I use the Alliance's neglecting to help the blood elves as a means to show the virtue philosophies when Bael Modan was used? Garm 14:11, 1 August 2007 (UTC)

Sorry if I'm getting you wrong, but you seem to be mistaking my tone: I can seem abrasive at times, but my arguments bear no ill will. That covered, I still sense bias or at least misunderstanding of several facts that somewhat unbalances your argument. Whether intentional or not, I feel the need to point the these out. ;)

PS. To answer your above question: Garithos was not a celebrated major figurehead of the Alliance; and more races than one were the subject of his racist bigotry. He eventually betrayed the Alliance, which just goes to show what an utter bastard he was.--User:Vorbis/Sig

I see that Garithos was a meaningless character to the Alliance. However, that does not explain Durnholde and the irrational hunting of the Forsaken as "monsters". The orcs feel betrayed by the humans, and if they express anger for trusting them, the Pandarens might think twice before joining the Alliance. Another thing is that not all Forsaken are evil. In fact, some, if not a rough majority, are neutral or good guys. (Examine carefully) Garm 14:56, 1 August 2007 (UTC)

Let's put Durnholde in real world terms: the Allied forces have just defeated the German war machine for the second time in 50 years. The first time, they were merciful to a degree (to what degree the Treaty of Versailles was 'merciful' is heavily debated...), opting to allow the Germans to remain a sovereign nation. The second time round, they weren't going to bargain. Germany was divided between the victorious powers, East Germany only reuniting with the independent (since 1955) West in 1990.

Now let's translate this into Azerothian terms (note that I would not like it understood that the German people bear any similarities to the orcs!): the Alliance was faced by an evil bloodthirsty enemy driven by dark powers which rampaged across the Eastern Kingdoms before being driven back and defeated once and for all. When faced by an enemy totally opposed to everything you stand for and which simply does not bargain or give up, what do you do?

The Alliance found a way other than murder to defeat the orcs and prevent them from attacking again: imprisonment. Where the Alliance failed was in not realising that the orcs were no longer the crazed monsters they had once been, and not allowing them to repent and attain independance.

As for the Forsaken undead, human attitudes towards them are understandable (though not entirely reasonable). Your homeland has been entirely destroyed by an evil force of unnatural beings, the land raped of all life and the population wiped out (probably including your entire family). It having only been five years since this happened, tensions are likely to be still running high. How even-minded would you be, and how forgiving or trusting would you expect to feel towards (supposedly!) former troops of this force? How do you know that it's not a trap, or that these "Forsaken" will not just suddenly become mindless slaves again? Has a single Forsaken approached you and attempted to right wrongs committed? No. You will feel entirely justified sending them back to the grave in which they should belong.--User:Vorbis/Sig

OH MY GOD!!

I found your Wood Elf page by accident when writing up the lore for my racial Blood Elf offshoot, the Wild Elves or 'Tel'Dorei'. I play on the European Moonglade server. I'm the only person there who seemed to have the whole 'Wild Elf' thing going...I had no idea someone else had a like minded thought.—The preceding unsigned comment was added by Azkera (talk · contr).

Well... thanks. Weird how we got the same name too! I hope the wild elf thing works out for you. :) --User:Vorbis/Sig

500 edits

I have 500 edits,can I put the 500 club thing on my page?-User:Airiph/sig 23:11, 2 October 2007 (UTC)

Shoot!No I don`t,Sorry.-User:Airiph/sig 23:16, 2 October 2007 (UTC)

When you do, you can :) User:Kirkburn/Sig3 00:30, 3 October 2007 (UTC)

Don't ask me though, Airiph. I'm not a staff member, let alone an admin. --User:Vorbis/Sig

Oh I thaught you were,Oh well--User:Airiph/sig 20:12, 3 October 2007 (UTC)

It's odd how many people think that. Why, I don't know. --User:Vorbis/Sig

Ogre POV

I removed the line "shortly before opening of the dark portal" as that part of it was a presumption, and I've limited to the what the ogres and scholars pov was in Horde Player's Guide. The way it reads in the book would give the impression that ogres interpreted the orcs hunts and raids on their race as ruthless attacks on their people, and were defending themsleves. Where we know that orcs thought that ogres were attacking their people. Much as if there was a huge misunderstanding going on between the races. It seems to go back before the "Horde" was founded, and we know there was some demonic influence before the "Horde" itself was founded. BTW, it was the story according to Rexxar as told to Brann.Baggins 19:30, 3 October 2007 (UTC)

Ok then. But I've added "of the Old Horde" so as to differentiate the orcs who carried out the attacks from the current race.

Edit: Ahhh... then what do you suggest? Even considering that the pre-Horde orcs were an otherwise shamanistic and peaceful people, orcs of all types have changed much since then.--User:Vorbis/Sig

As a note, the HPG considers the Horde the Horde, there is no differentation between an older entity and newer entity. Its just the "History of the Horde" and the Horde Player's Guide. Basically its like a government that has had it laws and leadership change over the years but has lasted in some form the entire time for the most part.Baggins 19:37, 3 October 2007 (UTC)

The whole quote was;

Some orc scholars believe that the ogres were once intelligent and the dominant species of Draenor before the orcs rose to power. Orcs ruthlessly conquered ogre territory, enslaving or killing the ogres as they went; the war between the two races lasted quite a while, fueled by corruption from demonic forces. Soon the ogres were broken, the race either forced into exile or enslaved and used in experiments. To this day, most ogres hate orcs with a passion, remembering the wars they fought against each other.

On a related note, you might not have caught it but Rise of the Horde novel was told in such a way that it was the reminscing of Thrall on events as he was told them. So different scholars have different interpretations of what exactly went down, and how each race viewed each other.Baggins 19:40, 3 October 2007 (UTC)

Ganthrithal

Why did you remove most of the lore, and why did you make the picture an ugly huge banner in the middle?Baggins 21:07, 18 October 2007 (UTC)

No lore was removed from the article - instead, more was added. As for the picture, I believed that Ganthrifal was simply not clearly visible when his image was reduced to "thumbnail" size. I agree that it is a bit ugly as a banner, but I can see no other way of including the image. --User:Vorbis/Sig

Why not use px to forcibly enlarge it?Baggins 21:41, 18 October 2007 (UTC)

True. --User:Vorbis/Sig

Horde Wood elves

I've been a wood elves obsecer for ever. I played an EQ wood elf, warhammer wood elves, and have always loved Tolkien's wood elves. I dont understand why your woods elves are horde. Pertaining to your history I could see them not joining the alliance but the horde. They have always hated the blood elves and you even say this in your history so why would they join the horde. Also I thought it was a little odd that the wood elves came from the night elves and there skin slowly paled out. So you could also make the wood elves separate from the night elves before they recreated the world tree to try to gain back there immortality, while they were still pale in color. I liked all your other ideas, pertaining culture and clases though. Next all is needed is an area to live. Perhaps a nuetral area of woods. Ashenvale, feralas, felwood. --—The preceding unsigned comment was added by Tjsid (talk · contr).

I'm not sure that you've read the article through fully. I did provide an explanation there, but I'll reiterate it here for you.

The wood elves joined the Horde before the blood elves, and through different channels. As can be seen in World of Warcraft, the blood elves go through Sylvanas to arrange an alliance with the Horde. My wood elves, being temporarily closed off to the outside world thanks to the hostility of the blood elves and the inaccessibility of the lands they call home, were advised to form an alliance with the similarly-minded tauren (and thus by extension, the Horde) by the dragon Orionastrasz. The organisation of the Horde itself is very complex, but let's just say that wood elves have connected themselves to certain elements of the strongly united "Western Horde" league of nations under Thrall, and not the loosely affiliated "Eastern Horde" of blood elves and Forsaken undead.

The discovery that the blood elves had also allied themselves with the Horde proved more useful than damaging. With both nations finding themselves connected to one another through different arms of the Horde, the blood elves are no longer able to declare open war without retribution and possible removal from the Horde. Sure, the blood elves are still enemies, but they're enemies hindered by diplomacy, a ring of alliances and red tape. ^^ It's complicated, I know.

As for the latter part of your post, I suggest you read the article through again. The wood elves are descended from high elves, not directly from night elves. They are essentially the brethren of the blood elves; another splinter faction of the Highborne mother race. As for a starting area, that's in the article too: Ravenwind Mountains. ;)--User:Vorbis/Sig

After your reply I did see a lot more to the opinion. I still believe that wood elves should be a neutral race. Once they would see the blood elves would join they wood break there pact. Plus the "western horde" still wouldn't make sense because they wouldn't ever join with the orc's and trolls. Also in several other fantasy series they appear as the switzerland not getting in other factions affairs. And as my best friend once pointed out to me there will most likely never be a wood elf playable race mostly because the night elves are just like purple wood elves. Here are my one ideas for the wood elves. I still don't see why they are horde. As a proud lover of wood elves I still see no point. The wood elves would never, ever join a faction with the blood elves, the orc's or the Trolls. The Tuaren maybe. But there are other tuaren in the world (the cenarion circle). They are not part of the horde and the real only reason you put the wood elves as horde are because you play a blood elf. I play non-solid alliance, but I'm not saying that wood elves should go to the alliance. Just here me out, this is not the true wood elf way, and if action is not taken on this issue i will find a legal way to take action.

For the REAL wood elves everywhere --—The preceding unsigned comment was added by Tjsid (talk · contr).

I'm sorry? "Real wood elves". Are you somehow insinuating that my version of the race is sub-par? Don't insult me. But enough of that.

Here's another go at the points you have raised:

            Once they would see the blood elves would join they wood break there pact

And risk losing the friendship and protection of the Horde? Diplomacy is a delicate thing. When you're a struggling and extremely small nation you need all the help you can get (or just peace enough to recuperate and build), even if it "allies" you with a hostile power. Look at such historic deals as the Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact of 1939; when Nazi Germany and the Communist USSR made a "treaty of non-aggression" that lasted up to 1941 despite the extreme anti-communist bend of the Third Reich. It makes sense to "keep your friends close, but your enemies closer" as they say.

Though there's a truce, don't think that the wood elves are content with staying in the Horde with the blood elves. Agents from both sides are working to sabotage the other in order to weaken and lever them out of the Horde. Trust me, they hate each other.

            they wouldn't ever join with the orc's and trolls.

Tell that to the blood elves! Yes, of course they have their reservations. In the end, it is the tauren who remain their closest allies (as the Forsaken are to the blood elves).

            they appear as the switzerland not getting in other factions affairs

Currently they cannot afford to stay neutral, what with the blood elves keeping a tab on their affairs. Their mistrust of the Alliance also blocks out that option. The Horde is not the be all and end all for the wood elves: as with several other races, it's a means to an end. That, and the tauren make good friends.

            as my best friend once pointed out to me there will most likely never be a wood elf playable race mostly because the night elves are just like purple wood elves

Note that this is fan fiction, and not a playable race proposition. And I'm attempting to make the wood elves different. Night elves are far too airy-fairy for my liking.

            The wood elves would never, ever join a faction with the blood elves, the orc's or the Trolls

Obviously your perception of fantasy wood elves contrasts with my creation. This is Warcraft; not Tolkein, and this is fanfiction; not lore. Therefore your opinion, though considered, matters little to me. You're free to make your own wood elves (as several others have) on your own user space if you wish (Edit: However, I will protect my own Intellectual Property - so I'm watching closely).

            The Tuaren maybe. But there are other tuaren in the world (the cenarion circle).

To quote Boromir: "One does not simply walk into Mordor". The same can be said of Moonglade. The wood elves, I am sure, would like to join but the Cenarion Circle is not foolish enough to just say "yes" to every wandering Tom, Dick and Harry. The wood elves needed allies fast. They found them. Hopefully, at some point, they'll join the Cenarion Circle; but first they need to prove themselves to be actual druids...

            They are not part of the horde and the real only reason you put the wood elves as horde are because you play a blood elf.

No, that's not entirely true. And no, I've had my fair share of dwarves and humans too. Don't feel that I am in any way biased towards either faction (I still strongly maintain that the furbolgs are a race which should join the Alliance).

Yes, the wood elves were originally intended to be a blood elf guild in the expansion, and I began to develop the lore around that; but in the end I decided against their implementation. Being free to go anywhere with it and not bound anymore by the game, I considered the Alliance. However, I could think of several prominent reasons why I should not make them Alliance and came to the conclusion that the Horde actually suited their wild, free and honorable culture better. So there they shall stay for now.

            Just here me out, this is not the true wood elf way, and if action is not taken on this issue i will find a legal way to take action.

Say what now? I believed this to be friendly banter over a conflict of views, not a diehard prescriptivist lecture and silly "legal" threat (exactly what action are you proposing? Harsh words from your lawyer?). This is my fanfic and my race. To be blunt, unless you have anything constructive to say, eff off. --User:Vorbis/Sig

Hey Vorb, may I please make a suggestion? If no, I do not want to offend you. Mr.X8 Talk Contribs

Fire away. ;) --User:Vorbis/Sig

In the article it says that the wood elves left during the reign of the blood elves. Is this true or am i just confused. It says quote "blood elves who were to later become wood elves". --—The preceding unsigned comment was added by Tjsid (talk · contr).

Yes, you are correct. Again, I stress you read and take in the article. They left when Rommath returned with news of Kael'thas' victories in Outland and began to preach new "methods". --User:Vorbis/Sig

Couldyour Wood Elves possibly join (make an alliance/friendship w/e you want to call it) the neutral High Elves in the world. And maybe those elves could join the Wood Elf nation. Mr.X8 Talk Contribs

Yes, it's possible that some high elves could join the wood elves. However, they would then cease to be high elves... ^^ --User:Vorbis/Sig

Ooh yeah... That sounds cool to though. There could also be emmisaries of the High Elves in the Wood Elves' capital. Mr.X8 Talk Contribs

No, I mean that any high elves who choose to align themselves with the wood elves would be required to also become wood elves. The Tel'dorei distrust magic and the old high elven culture which they believe spawned the decadence of the blood elves, and so all Quel'dorei of such a vein are no more welcome than any blood elf in their territories. --User:Vorbis/Sig

Makes sense. I would like to see that happen (but of course, this is YOUR fan fic, so this is just my opinion). Mr.X8 Talk Contribs

hey dude!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! tjsid is right. i'm not much into wood elves but c'mon! ok, orcs burn and destroy like, everything! and trolls are to awesomely beasty for wood elves. ok, that was a joke but, trolls are very superstitious and cruel(in a good way =P)and wood elves wouldn't go good with em'. persononly, i think wood elves would be neutral, becuz they stay in there forest and destroy all invaders, relentless and mercilessly. ok, if u play as a blood elf u guy, ur gay, and i have a feeling if u watch "your pitiful" by Weird al it will describe you. heh laterz bro. --—The preceding unsigned comment was added by Gandown (talk · contr).

Oh, very funny duuuuuude. "Ur gay". What a paragon of reasoned debate you are. Get stuffed. --User:Vorbis/Sig

First off I just have to say, you said quote "To quote Boromir: "One does not simply walk into Mordor". The same can be said of moon glade. I was just wandering than why I walked right through timbermaw hold, with still being hated by the timbermaw into moonglade. Everyone there was pretty friendly, except for the flight master, he bullied me just because I wasn't a druid. How Classist" No but onto the real business.

Here are some questions that I have on the wood elf race

1. Is the Wood elf capital in a valley on the ground. They are To quote Boromir: "One does not simply walk into Mordor". The same can be said of Moonglade.Wood elves, so they should live in the tree tops.

2. You said the Wood elves disliked the alliance's materialistic ways. I suspect your are referring to economic materialistic ways. What is the difference between wood elven materialistic ways and alliance materialistic ways.

3. Next off, why do the wood elves hate the high elves, according to your history the wood elves seem more like the high elves leaving before after they became blood elves. Even if it was before they had preached themselves as blood elves it was after Grand Maggistar Romath preached the benefits of warlockry and that Kael' thas would lead them to greatness.

So answer my questions pretty much change your fanfic to make more sense, go ahead, but I will keep fighting for the revolution. This fight aint over till it's over, but thats pretty obvious. And it ain't over. Viva las Wood elves. --—The preceding unsigned comment was added by Tjsid (talk · contr).

"Viva las wood elves"? Oh please, get a grip.

just wandering than why I walked right through timbermaw hold, with still being hated by the timbermaw into moonglade

I suppose, then, that you'd be able to stroll into Mordor with your leet epixx and wipe the floor of Barad Dur with Saurons ass as no doubt you have also probably done with Nefarian in Blackrock. Do you honestly think that in the lore everything is quite so easy? That the druids let every Tom, Dick and Harry who can beat up a few furbolgs into the ancient secret groves of Moonglade? Please. Get a proper argument.

Is the Wood elf capital in a valley on the ground. They are To quote Boromir: "One does not simply walk into Mordor". The same can be said of Moonglade.Wood elves, so they should live in the tree tops

And I suppose night elves should live on the moon and high elves should make for every tall mountain, no? The wood elf capital is a fortress on the side of a mountain, the valley below and most of the surrounding area filled with trees. In The Hobbit, you'll notice that the Dwarves were imprisoned in the Wood-elf fortress... which, unsurprisingly, was also made of stone. To be labeled a wood elf, one doesn't actually have to set up home in a tree.

You said the Wood elves disliked the alliance's materialistic ways. I suspect your are referring to economic materialistic ways. What is the difference between wood elven materialistic ways and alliance materialistic ways.

In common usage, the word "materialistic" specifically refers to a person who pursues wealth and luxury. Your average dwarf will hoard his belongings, and probably has several tons of gold bullion stored in the Bank of Ironforge. Humans see large profits and a high level of economic growth as progress. Races such as wood elves and tauren, however, live a somewhat more Spartan existence; putting more value on the beauty of their natural surroundings than their monetary worth as resources.

why do the wood elves hate the high elves

They don't hate high elves - it's more in the way of dislike mixed with pity. When the wood elves turned their back on the blood elves, they also blamed the high elves for their influence on Sin'dorei philosophy. They have come to accept that magic is a corrupting influence, and that the fall of the blood elves was partially due to the arrogance and foolishness of the old elven culture.

In a similar way, I dislike your arrogance. You believe that only your version of the way wood elves "should be" is correct and should be followed to the letter or else the author of such heresy should be burned at the stake.

But I won't be walked over. Oh no. This has really gone far enough, kid (here's hoping that you are, as facing a chronically immature grown man is really too much), and though I'd like to tell you just where to stick your pretentious B.S., instead I have asked Ragestorm to step in and settle this dispute. --User:Vorbis/Sig

Well, I must point out that this is FANFICTION, and anyone who really, really cares about this (no offense, Vorbis, this doesn't apply to the author) needs to take a chill pill in my opinion.

I'm also tempted to rule in favor of Vorbis given the low quality and lack of signing the counterarguments. I am also not kindly disposed to anyone who tries to plug Tolkien into Warcraft. But it is lore viability, not opinion, that matters here. I shall review the entire issue and deliver my verdict later today. --Ragestorm (talk · contr) 17:58, 11 November 2007 (UTC)

The 2 people moaning on Vorbis' atristic views, God there's nothing you can do. Unless you somehow take over WoWWiki and say you can change fan fic, stop moaning on his Wood Elves. User:Mr.X8/Sig3

X8, Vorbis requested my intervention. --Ragestorm (talk · contr) 21:36, 11 November 2007 (UTC)