From WoWWiki

Past discussions archived to...

• ...WoWWiki talk:Policy/DNP/Archive01 Archived 17:02, 19 June 2006 (EDT)
• ...WoWWiki talk:Policy/DNP/Archive02 Archived 10:49, 17 September 2006 (EDT)

Contents 1 Policy addition 2 Proposal to DNP non-English content 2.1 Proposal Text 2.1.1 Exceptions 2.2 Reasoning 2.3 Policy ratification vote 2.3.1 Implementation checklist 2.3.2 Comments 3 New topics 3.1 Data Mined Content 3.2 Real-world application of WW:DNP to a page.. comments please 3.3 WOW Model Viewer Graphics covered by data mining policy? 3.4 Change to the image DNP policy 3.5 Non-editorial discussions

Policy addition

This policy was decreed as policy by an admin and implemented. Please comment in the discussion area if you disagree with this policy.

Discrimination

WoWWiki is a wiki for everyone. We do not tolerate discrimination based upon social status, age, sex, nationality, religion, sexual orientation, etc.

Added by Kirburn. Incidents of discrimination should be reported on WoWWiki:Violations. -- Fandyllic (talk · contr) 2:37 PM PST 7 Dec 2007

Proposal to DNP non-English content

This policy has been adopted. This policy is currently being implemented following the details on the policy's discussion page. Once the implementation is complete please remove {{Adopted}}. Alternatively, you may use {{Policy/Recalltalk}} to recall the policy.

Proposal Text

WoWWiki is an English wiki. Its infrastructure does not support content in other languages. Doing so would entail something like what wikipedia has - different sub-domains and monitoring routines to track changes between different language versions of pages and alert translators.

So, for now, non-English content is against policy and can be tagged {{speedydelete}} when found.

• Note that there are WoW wikis in other languages, e.g. http://www.wikiwow.com/ (French) and http://www.wow-wiki.net/ (German).

Exceptions

• One possible exception is quoted material pasted as part of a page where the author simply would not/could not translate it. If this content is on-topic and otherwise not available in the wiki, it is a candidate for translation - or removal as part of the regular editing process.

• Guild pages. As per guild page policy, they are required three (3) sentences in English. We stand by that. But other than that, we allow guild pages to continue in whatever language; it makes sense to allow it since some guilds cater only to speakers of a specific language. Pages violating this are tagged {{Stub/Guild}} and given the standard time to correct the problem.

Reasoning

Non-English text / pages are already being deleted, but through time-consuming votes. And some contributors are simply not sure of how to deal with it. Codifying this practice in a policy with a swift resolution seems sensible to me.   --Mikk (T) 07:41, 4 September 2006 (EDT)

Policy ratification vote

---

New topics

Data Mined Content

I do not readily see any policies against posting data mined content in either WW:EDIT, WW:DNP, or WW:WRITE. However it does appear in the BC Stub: {{Stub/BC}} Did I overlook something, or is this really not explicitly stated in policy? --Tyrsenus t c 15:12, 18 April 2007 (EDT)

You're right! It's mentioned on WoWWiki:Image guidelines, but not here. I'll add something about that now. Kirkburn talk contr 15:17, 18 April 2007 (EDT)

Might I suggested rephrasing "files" to "information?" Unless that's what you really meant. --Tyrsenus t c 16:24, 18 April 2007 (EDT)

I don't want to be overly restrictive without some discussion with others first - atm I was just posting the legally obvious parts :) Kirkburn talk contr 16:44, 18 April 2007 (EDT)

I think it's reasonable to add audio files and quotes from such files to the list. --Tyrsenus t c 23:03, 24 April 2007 (EDT)

The files themselves perhaps, but I'm not sure of the status of the quotes from them. Hrm... Kirkburn talk contr 00:24, 25 April 2007 (EDT)

I will admit this topic is a sticky wicket and does need some more discussion from other members of the community. --Tyrsenus t c 08:29, 25 April 2007 (EDT)

I've seen a lot of pages containing quotes from data mined files, in particular, Illidan Stormrage (tactics). It says, in so many words, "Illidan dies," which many players were not expecting, and should at the very least use spoiler tags if someone's going to post this. Illidan has not been slain on either live or test realm; the only source of this quote is a datamined sound file. Furthermore, I feel that unless something has been seen or heard on an official live or test realm, without using methods that violate the ToU or EULA, it shouldn't exist on the wiki. --Tyrsenus t c 19:27, 26 May 2007 (UTC)

I don't agree with this edit made by Tekkub. This would allow for anything found in the game/PTR files on Wowwiki, regardless of whether it is actually found in-game. I think he meant: "Datamined images of live or PTR content are permissible as long as it has been seen in-game first, but "true" in-game screenshots preferred and will always be given preference over datamined content." --Tyrsenus t c 04:39, 12 February 2008 (UTC)

Real-world application of WW:DNP to a page.. comments please

See Server talk:Scarlet Crusade US/Rahurm please. Mikk (T) 06:00, 12 May 2007 (EDT)

WOW Model Viewer Graphics covered by data mining policy?

I'm interested in creating some visuals of some of the item sets using WOW Model Viewer. http://www.wowmodelviewer.org/ Is this precluded by the Data Mining policy. They are not live screen shots, but they would also not be unreleased conted. Skalchemist 19:27, 25 March 2008 (UTC)

• Never mind. Found my answer at http://www.wowwiki.com/WoWWiki:Image_guidelines. Skalchemist 20:58, 26 March 2008 (UTC)

Change to the image DNP policy

Moved from the Village pump

The DNP policy underwent some minor albeit important changes (written and un-written) concerning datamined information and images posted on the wiki. Currently the wording of the policy is such:

Datamined pictures and files of unreleased content are not allowed. Note that any in-game screenshots obtained from the live or test servers and clients are okay.

Datamined images of live or PTR content are permissible, but "true" in-game screenshots preferred and will always be given preference over datamined content.

Nonetheless, items such as [Thori'dal, the Stars' Fury] are currently on the wiki despite the fact that they have not been seen on a live or test realm, nor has such specific information on them been released by Blizzard (CM's have only confirmed the bow's existence and its name, but nothing more). The information, stats, and graphics were datamined, and not permissable on the wiki according to DNP. However, admins have informed me that Thori'dal's article is acceptable and will remain on the wiki.

If there has been a policy change in practice, we ought to change the policy article accordingly to avoid disputes; if not, we should remove the datamined content. --Tyrsenus t c 21:54, 16 February 2008 (UTC)

I'd imagine the bow is at least linkable on the PTR (or people wouldn't be able to determine its stats), which means item stats and model (dressing room on PTR -- which makes model viewer pictures acceptable (preferable?) as well) are public; icons of new items can be extracted with the addon kit using the PTR client, so those are also public. -- Foxlit 22:08, 16 February 2008 (UTC)

As best I can tell, the bow was first brought to light by MMO-Champion on Feb 8th. They have a disclaimer that the information is from a "Pre-PTR leak and could be different on live servers." It's clear this is unreleased content. In order to force a link on the PTRs, you need the item ID to create the link command in addition to having the bow actually been "seen" for the link to work and not output regular text. I don't think icons are protected by the server the same way item links are. --Tyrsenus t c 23:27, 16 February 2008 (UTC)

PTR files are ok to post now? Even if what they are of is not in-game, even in the PTRs? What brought on this change? Is it because we felt like it because datamined content is 'cool'?--SWM2448 00:26, 17 February 2008 (UTC)

I don't think that's what they are saying. The files are okay to post if they are at least in the PTR. At least, that's how I understood it. --Jiyambi t || c 00:41, 17 February 2008 (UTC)

So if a file is in the PTR files, but has no chance of being included in the thing being tested when it goes live, it is still bad?--SWM2448 00:43, 17 February 2008 (UTC)

Another example is the images of Kil'jaeden already showing up. None of the PTRs have come close to even unlocking him, and no guilds have passed the eredar twins yet (if they are even unlocked as well). --Tyrsenus t c 01:25, 17 February 2008 (UTC)

"Datamined images of live or PTR content are permissible" Read that over and over until you understand the policy allows them. They have not been seen, but are datamined from the files of public test versions which have been released. I'm looking at them right now. -- 

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  01:59, 17 February 2008 (UTC)

What of the tuskarr, icecrown/forgotten crabs, and frostlord?--SWM2448 02:14, 17 February 2008 (UTC)

Same goes for the Tuskarr, it's in the PTR files. Never seen anything about the others on here or elsewhere. Oh, and just for the record, Kil'jaeden and the bow, they are available on the PTR, just haven't been reached or obtained yet. -- 

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  15:55, 17 February 2008 (UTC)

All right, that clears that up. What of unused models that are in the non-PTR files? BTW, the Frostlord is here. The crabs were here, but I do not see them anymore. They were on WoWInsider too.--SWM2448 16:04, 17 February 2008 (UTC)

Both in the files. Just to give you another perspective, they're simply unobtainable content, such as the the old Ashbringer GM's liked to show off. It's only not allowed when it's on private builds such as interal aplhas and friends and family ones, which is when the big Blizzard came and told us to take such content off here. ;) -- 

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  16:49, 17 February 2008 (UTC)

What of the infamous orca?--SWM2448 17:09, 17 February 2008 (UTC)

Zeal- while the second line of the policy allows datamined images, the first line forbids datamined images of unreleased content. It looks like there is some disagreement over whether "released" means "seen in-game" or just "in the game files." I personally interpreted it as the former. P.S. Link to orca discussion. --Tyrsenus t c 17:21, 17 February 2008 (UTC)

The Public Test Realm means it is released to me, just not to those people who don't go to the PTR, but they can, if they want. Does that make sense? I'm not sure why this is so hard to understand. The orca was never publicly released anywhere, so it isn't allowed. The orca also is not just speculation, because it was obviously datamined. The worldofraids.com tooltip screenshot for Thori'dal is in the gray area for me, since it hasn't been obtained by anyone all though it is presumably available on the test realm. The big problem is that the sources for Thori'dal could be alot better than they are. If they were, it wouldn't be as controversial. -- Fandyllic (talk · contr) 1:36 PM PST 17 Feb 2008

So images, items and other information that are in the game files but not seen on live realms or the PTR are in fact okay to post on Wowwiki? --Tyrsenus t c 00:18, 18 February 2008 (UTC)

Yes.. that's considered released, but unobtained/unobtainable content. -- 

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  15:28, 18 February 2008 (UTC)

Ummm, no. If you will never see the content in-game, it shouldn't be in WoWWiki. For example, the orca model is in the game files, but can not be seen in-game and there is no evidence it will be added in the foreseeable future before the release of Wrath of the Lich King. So, it is considered only datamined and not publicly released. If a blue post appears saying something like, "Hey guys the orca is coming in patch x.y, so don't drown looking for it now," then it would be okay. -- Fandyllic (talk · contr) 4:55 PM PST 18 Feb 2008

What of the other WotLK things?--SWM2448 00:57, 19 February 2008 (UTC)

Sigh... then rewrite the policy to make that destinction Fandy, as currently it doesn't. Other than the issue with the Orca (which i wasn't around for) this wasn't the case for previously released but unobtainable content. Given the meaning you're applying to that terminology, you can't make the distinction without Blizzard. Unobtained content will have to be considered unobtainable, until it's obtained. Pretty easy to make a claim for keeping alot of PTR and live content off of WoWWiki for several weeks-months. Enjoy the minefield -- 

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  02:44, 19 February 2008 (UTC)

Not too long ago Kirkburn was taking down Illidan's model images and sound files, even though he was on the PTR. However, Kirkburn also told me (via irc) that the Thori'dal article was okay. The problem with posting content that's in the files and confirmed by Blizzard is that they change their mind (e.g. Emerald Dream). Kaydeethree (an admin) has been removing model images from the ED page. There's obviously different ways the policy is being interpreted, even among admins. It needs to be spelled out what is okay and what is not okay:

Information/items/images of content seen through normal game play on an official Blizzard realm or Public Test Realm are allowed on Wowwiki. (given)

Information/items/images of content not seen through normal game play on an official Blizzard realm or Public Test Realm, but may be found in the files of the client thereof (are/are not) allowed on Wowwiki.

Information/items/images of content not seen through normal game play on an official Blizzard realm or Public Test Realm, but may be found in the files of the client thereof and has been confirmed by a Blizzard employee to exist in-game currently or in the future (through a citable source) (are/are not) allowed on Wowwiki.

Information/items/images of content not seen through normal game play on an official Blizzard realm or Public Test Realm, not found in the files of the client thereof and has been confirmed by a Blizzard employee to exist currently in-game or in the future (through a citable source) (are/are not) allowed on Wowwiki.

Information/items/images of content not seen through normal game play on an official Blizzard realm or Public Test Realm, not found in the files of the client thereof, and not confirmed by Blizzard (are/are not) allowed on Wowwiki.

--Tyrsenus t c 04:00, 19 February 2008 (UTC)

And what of the Ashbringer? It has been stated multiple times that datamining a screenshot of the blade itself is NOT OK, despite the fact that A) it is in the game files, B) the main image consists of woefully outdated stats for a version of the weapon that, at the time, existed solely as a GM weapon, and C) there is a screenshot of Tirion holding it later in the article. And, if it's OK to post images datamined from the PTR and other in-game files, even if said things are not accessible in-game, then what, precisely, is the point of the policy? Unless I'm missing something, there really isn't a way to datamine something from files that we don't even have in the first place. -- Dark T Zeratul 04:10, 19 February 2008 (UTC)

This is a hot topic - it is obvious that everyone (both Blizzard and fansites) are becoming more relaxed about this. As it stands the easiest way to write this (in my opinion) would be: images of announced content existing on the live or public test clients are okay. Certain pieces of unannounced content may be exempt from this for reasons of extreme notoriety and importance. Notoriety would include the tuskarr and Kil'jaeden (both announced), but not give free reign to any and all doodads. Regarding the Emerald Dream, that is unannounced content and would thus not be allowed. Kirkburn  talk  contr 17:04, 19 February 2008 (UTC)

Makes sense, but I had to read it a few times. May want to clarify what constitutes an "announcement." --Tyrsenus t c 18:19, 19 February 2008 (UTC)

I would define it as Blizzard specifically saying that "this thing is coming in a patch". It would have to be fairly specific about the content, so a general "Emerald Dream is being looked at" wouldn't count, but "Kil'jaeden is being summoned in Sunwell Plateau in patch 2.4" would. Any official Blizzard spokesperson would make this announcement (forum/interview/website/etc). Kirkburn  talk  contr 19:03, 19 February 2008 (UTC)

The Doodads for the Emerald Dream are in Moonglade now BTW.--SWM2448 21:28, 19 February 2008 (UTC)

So is this new policy being decreed? If not, I'd like to start the voting booth. --Tyrsenus t c 18:58, 28 February 2008 (UTC)

To update on this, is the following okay?

Images of announced content existing on the live or public test clients are okay. Certain pieces of unannounced content may be exempt from this for reasons of extreme notoriety and importance, which will be up to an admin's judgement. Note that Blizzard has final say on what content can be shown.

Kirkburn  talk  contr 22:18, 3 April 2008 (UTC)

Works for me. --Tyrsenus t c 03:32, 29 April 2008 (UTC)

Non-editorial discussions

Even though it is not in the official WoWWiki policies, it is brought up here that WoWWiki is not a forum and that non-editorial discussions are frowned upon. I'm not sure in what policy I should add it, but the DNP policy was the best connection I could find.

Now what I would like to add is that if you don't have anything that would contribute to the content of the article, then don't write it. If a lore character acts in a way that might seem strange, don't add to it since we're not to discuss what logic Blizzard has when making their games. Neither are discussions about adding new metals to the game that is already in the lore, as it would have close to zero impact on the game when discussed on talk pages. There are already the official forums for that.

Tell me what you think about making an addition to the DNP policy, where you shouldn't make non-editorial discussions on talk pages. gOurra[T҂C] 14:49, 8 August 2008 (UTC)

Not sure if I've got the right idea of what you're thinking about adding, but it sounds like speculation, which is handled in WW:LORE. --PcjCreator of WoWWiki's hover tooltips; WoWWiki admin (T3 latest discussions:
 • Deletion of the guildpage Dragonsbane - Dragonblight (EU)
 • Template {{Dull}}
 • Sorry, evidently i don't know the procedure for templates :)•C37834 contributions and counting) 15:35, 8 August 2008 (UTC)

Examples: 1 2. I have some other examples too, but I think you get the idea. gOurra[T҂C] 15:41, 8 August 2008 (UTC)