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A New Faction

Isn't there a rumored 3rd faction being introduced with the advent of WoW II?

I think they are based on the moon or some other planet. It is conceivable that pandaerans could be a sort of pet race for a higher order intelligence, or could be one of many 'neutral' races associated with the new faction, whose primary race (ala humans/orcs) could be spiritual in nature, hence above the conflict, but able to participate if necessary for maintaining the balance of neutrality.--;> 21:30, 31 October 2007 (UTC)

I don't know... of the games I've played with 3 factions it always goes pear shaped. the playerbase becomes too spread out and griefers get a hayday. I would rather deal with 1/2 of the jerks on my server then 2/3rds of them. -- Aki no kaze 16:42, 30 November 2007 (UTC)
Considering Blizzard has said they aren't working on WoW 2 anytime soon I would discount any rumors you here. --BlameMe→ Mucke ←talkTo 18:56, 30 November 2007 (UTC)
they'll never make WoW 3 because then WoW would completely empty and during the interval they'd go bankrupt so, they're just gonna make expansion packs. Blizz ain't stupid.--Gnomez 21:10, 9 December 2007 (UTC)
well i wish they use the panda but sadly they wont,why,because the pandaerans are ultra rare to see. i read some where(in wowwiki i belive) that if one persone see on in it live time he is extremy lucky.So how could a race that is rare to see be a new race is unlikely to happend
The Pandaren as a race really isn't as far-fetched as that. The reason the Pandaren are rare to be seen is because they supposedly live on another continent in a reclusive oriental nation. The Draenei were in space, for crying out loud, considerably more migration than the Pandaren would have to make to get to Azeroth.

Yes, they may be ultra rare, but if what Jamvaru said was true, if they came from another planet, then why not? There could be a whole organization of them hidden somewhere in azeroth aswell, eh. Maybe Northrend is the host of them.

I read somewhere, and I wish I could find it again, that the creator of the Panderan has asked that they not be in WoW, or at least not widely spread. He wants them to have that ultra-rare and fresh feel. --BlameMe→ Mucke ←talkTo 19:25, 21 December 2007 (UTC)

~ The most likely new faction would probably be the races with Old God/Elemental Lords connections: Naga, Murlocs, Nerubians(?), Shadow Trolls, Centaur, Dark Iron Dwarves, etc. Maybe even a sect of Goblins. It would make sense that non-aquatic races would require a underwater suit to visit the Naga City which would require goblin enginuity thus requiring the introduction of the goblin Undercity which is just southwest of the Maelstrom. ~ --NightBeard 05:05, 27 December 2007 (UTC)

I think you mean Undermine. This city is likely the main area for a future expansion pack.  reacher | talk | cont  04:55, 29 December 2007 (UTC)

I think they considered Naga at one point, but then it came down to the problem with pants... I personally don't think it's such a big deal, considering that Tauren and Trolls don't have boot models, but Blizzard has always been picky. I'd like to see the Panderan, but if what Mucke said is true, gotta respect. Besides, they'd be Alliance anyway, probably... us Horde would be left with the short end of the stick, since the only races I'd like to see on the Horde would be Goblins and Naga. However, there's no plan for new races in any expansion, and there's no plan for a WoW2. --Shinsen 21:37, 30 December 2007 (UTC)

I think adding Pandaren to the Alliance would be pretty cool. Yes, I am an Ally player, but I don't think Horde would get the short end of the stick at all; it seems like no one has said anything about Satyrs, but I think that would be a cool and also quite feasible race. The other elven factions have already been included (Blood Elf and Night Elf). In case you didn't know, Satyrs were originally elves but they delved too deeply into magic. The High Elves(now Night Elves) warned them about the magic and eventually banished them, causeing them to "show off" their power in revenge and summon the Burning Legion to Azeroth. I think Blizzard could explain their breaking off from the Burning Legion and add them to horde, as Night Elves would not accept them and the Blood Elves would. Centaurs and Naga could also be feasible, but the Centaurs have been fighting the Tauren for years and I cannot really see them joining Alliance, and I think the Naga would fit Horde better...unless they have Night Elf connections, I dunno...but that would explain why Illidan knew about them I guess. Nerubians would be aligned with Arthas, so that wouldn't work, Goblins left the Horde already because Blizzard wanted a major neutral faction, but I can see them coming back, although that would cause problems with Neutral towns like Booty Bay and Gadgetzan. I'd like Blizzard to expand to the island by the Southern tip of Kalimdor, call me crazy but I've always wanted to go there and that could very possibly be home of the Pandarens. Adding another planet could be fun, but it would't make much sense as the major war is with Arthas, who is in Azeroth, however I guess it's possible for another planet to attack Azeroth. But then it would be hard to explain someone attacking and then befriending either side. --Pandem 20:10, 5 January 2008 (UTC)

-- I think that The Blood Elves were once High Elves, not Night Elves. (sorry, OCD.) Totemface 04:06, 14 March 2008 (UTC)

(Apologies if I'm arriving in this conversation really late, just feel that I should state my opinion). The way I see it, "WoW 2" is just a stupid rumor started by players. We are playing in the World of Warcraft, there is no second world. "WoW 2" would be a bad thing for Blizzard to make, forcing players to level all the way from 1 again to a much higher level cap in the same zones and with the same quests, just with better graphics, would be stupid. There will be no third faction, there will be no "WoW 2." WoW is "Warcraft IV" and Blizzard won't make another Warcraft RTS, unless it's a recap of everything that happened between the Frozen Throne and World of Warcraft. So, in short, no "WoW 2," no "Warcraft IV," no third faction. Once again, sorry if I came in here really late. Zentyr 10:04, 11 January 2008 (UTC)

Unless you have some new evidence no one else does, your comments on Warcraft IV are just as false. -- 
  • User:Zeal
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  10:11, 11 January 2008 (UTC)

Didn't Blizzard say somewhere that they were continuing the story through World of Warcraft? I'm afraid I don't have a source, I just remember reading it somewhere. Zentyr 10:16, 11 January 2008 (UTC)

Not afaik, they've never said what they'd do past World of Warcraft. The only mention of Warcraft IV has been fans saying WoW is essentially it iirc, which makes sense sequentially. That doesn't restrict the RTS continuing with it's naming and excluding WoW from the sequence though. -- 
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  10:35, 11 January 2008 (UTC)

There is an possibility for a thrid faction. I created the idea for my emerald dream expansion. Its neutral races. At level 20 they choose if the ywant to join alliance or horde through a quest-line. Nerox 21:47, 11 January 2008 (UTC)

I see no reason to count just writing a fan fiction about one as a possibility for a third faction.--SWM2448 20:57, 11 January 2008 (UTC)
How would these neutral races communicate with themselves? Horde and alliance are very specifically prevented from talking to each other. Would the race forget how to talk to others of the same race? And think of all the extra quests that'd have to be written... There's a lot of logistical problems involved in adding any sort of neutral faction, or even a third, mutually-hostile faction. It's just not going to happen. --Bobson 22:01, 14 January 2008 (UTC)

I would love to play a Tuskarr, Walruses are my favorite animal. Nerubians would be fun to play also. Tuskarr would have to have Hunters. Tuskarr Shamans, Warriors and Druids would make sense to put in also. Another faction would take a lot of time to make, it would be easier on Blizzard to add more races for the Alliance and the Horde. Blizzard also announced they aren't planning on adding new races, but it's still possible. --Komash 22:39, 10 February 2008 (UTC)

Panderan druid FTW, they have a human form! Aseh 02:37, 19 February 2008 (UTC)

Concerning Goblins as a race, I can imagine a "third" faction, Steamweedle Cartel, as their base, being friendly to Booty Bay, Gagedzan, Everlook and Ratchet, yet being neutral to all 10 main factions (Stormwind, Ironforge, Gnomeregan Exiles, Darnassus, Exodar, Undercity, Thunderbluff, Orgrimmar, the Trolls and the Blood Elves (dunno their faction names tbh). At some point players should have the option to choose a side, or remain neutral to all (and thus abandoning all hope for PvP combat unless a suitable solution can be found for that, can't imagine though). Also, Racial Passive could be "Merchant" - everything costs 10% less, and generates 10% money (including trade, AH and vendor). just my 2 ct. Chibby 6:45, 8 March 2008 (CET)

Wouldn't it most probably be the Naga? From what I understand, they are an extension of the old gods and can certainly be a new faction. I don't exactly see them on either the side of the Alliance, or the Horde. But they could certainly even form their own side. This could be a mix of races such as Naga, Murlocs, and other watery serpents. Perhaps the Pandaren race could be included into this for some unknown reason. It would be very easy to conceive. - Triangles.


Fist of all, from what i hear, these are, as you have stated, just rumors. There has been no official notice from Blizzard regarding "Pandaren." Second, I imagine that Blizz would use a faction that already exists in WoW, (a.k.a. Naga, Goblins, Furbolgs, Murlocks... ect) instrad of just making one up from the moon. Third and final of my rants, if there is to be another alignment, why not neutral? I know people have said this, but how about if players that choose a neutral race decide Horde or Alliance upon creation? Sounds like a good idea to me. Unfortunately I have a feeling that pandaren and new alignments are all most likely the result of some stupid teen running his mouth to much. Totemface 04:03, 14 March 2008 (UTC)

Fire Mage Abuse

I am quite annoyed by the abuse that fire mages get....I am a fire mage and getting really annoyed by the magezines, the forums, the PvP mage guides,(which im not PvP...but still...)etc. That all say that if you're a fire mage, then you will basicly fail if you dont have ice block, improved counterspell, and all of the other arcane and ice talent spells.

well, I don't see why the forums talk about pyroblast, or blast wave, or the 10% chance stun in the FIRE talent line, or the 75% chance of fire spells not being interrupted. I think a lot of the forums for some reason were made by Ice mages. I wish more fire mages would talk about things in the forums. --Rabidmoncy 21:14, 11 June 2007 (UTC)

  • So do it. I don't know squat about mages, or I'd help. Add in sections where you think they need to be mentioning the other alternatives. --Azaram 09:05, 12 June 2007 (UTC)
Well my mage is nearly all fire, 2 points in Arcane and 5 so far in Frost, the last two will be improved frost nova. Nothing can out DPS a fire mage, its laughable how hard my mage hits. I rarely use Frost Nova as I can take the one or two hits anything non-elite will give me as it doesn't survive for 3 hits.
Ice Mages == EASY MODE. Its basically the sissy style of play. You have ice block and rely on it because you can't manage your opponents. Its used mostly by PvP and lack luster mages.
Arcane + Fire is great if you want to be a 3 minute mage (PoM to cast an instant Pyro is awesome) and I may covert that way, not sure if I want to give up Dragon's Breath though. SharlinTalk / Did 09:39, 13 June 2007 (UTC)
Now, now, both specs have their advantages and disadvantages. Certainly fire mages have oustanding DPS, and frost mages have much better survivability. But saying that ice mages can't manage their opponents is ignorant and rude. On the contrary, some of the best mages I've ever met are ice mages. In addition, I've had many warriors tell me they much prefer having ice mages in their group for instancing because of their increased survivability and their slowing effects. If they do pull aggro (slightly less likely, given their lower DPS), they're less likely to get hit, as the mob will be walking very slowly towards them, and even if the mob does reach them before the tank gets it back, they can ice block to give them even more time.
I've played both specs, leveling to 60 as fire and respeccing to frost at the talent review. I'll probably switch to hybrid with focus in fire soon to take advantage of my Spellfire gear. Both are very fun to play. One of my favorite things to do when I am bored is to try to solo higher level instances, a feat which was much, much harder as a fire mage. I'll miss that, but I'll also enjoy sending my opponents to firey hell so fast they don't even cover the distance to me. --Mikaka 23:47, 13 June 2007 (UTC)
10/48/3 is the prefered raid spec. Most raid mobs are immnue to slowing effects. As for it being ignorant and rude, the last person I want in my raid some easy mode ice mage who thinks his spec will keep him from getting killed. Too many of them are just that. Instances and Raids do not follow the same rules and they just don't seem to get it. SharlinTalk / Did 11:33, 15 June 2007 (UTC)
That's a little presumptuous. —Pzychotix (talk · contr) 11:56, 15 June 2007 (UTC)
What the build or the experience of having played with too many of them? Its an observation from play, some builds are just refused from raids anymore because they can indicate the wrong mindset/playstyle from what is required for raiding SharlinTalk / Did 13:51, 15 June 2007 (UTC)
I'm a 10/48/3 mage, and I also must say that I would not allow a frost mage to go raiding with me. Frost mages simply fall short on DPS...the survivability options are essentially useless, because a good mage should never draw aggro in a raid. If somebody wants to spec frost, that's fine, but they need to stick to PvP. Putts 23:03, 19 June 2007 (UTC)
I'm full frost right now (0/0/61) to get every bit of damage I can out of it, was sitting at 10/0/51 for a while till they added the damage boost to Arctic Winds and with that much in Frost I opted to just take everything from there as I did not think I would get much impact from another tree.
I agree you should never take hits but I'm not usually the one that pulls aggro and as a frost mage I love how long Frost Nova can hold things for someone to take better control of the situation. Add Cold Snap / Imp Blizzard and you get some pretty nice options for CC beyond a single sheep. It's very mana efficient and when I'm soloing allows for burst DPS through FN/FB and Ice Lance to clear things quick.
I'm willing to look at options but haven't been able to cypher out everything in Fire, I see Arcane to Clearcasting and Elemental Precision from Frost easy enough but what exactly is this raiding spec? --Casey37 22:50, 20 June 2007 (UTC)
Playing as fire mage is a lot faster than as ice........people just dont want to admit that fire mages are one of the games strongest force of being........im a something you would call "fire lover" but what would you say?Fire mages rule!!!Qerka 17:04, 1 July 2007 (UTC)
Fire has its strong suits, but so does Frost. As Arcane/Frost I kept up with and/or surpassed all of my guild's Fire mages, and as Fire I enjoy the same domination. Not everyone enjoys the playstyle of Fire, for quite a while I certainly didn't, and Frost does tend towards superior threat reduction, slightly cheaper mana costs, and survivability at the cost of some damage. Calling 10/48/3 the "only" raiding spec is simple naivete - a good mage realizes that all specs have their place in differing situations, and can adapt summarily, something you often see among the mages of Nihilum, Death and Taxes, etc. what with changing specs as to fit the situation. (Also, I don't think I've ever heard of 'abuse' of only Fire mages - in fact, many mages tend to bash on every spec that isn't theirs for some reason, something that leads to much frustration and confusion.) Velrynne 09:16, 21 July 2007 (UTC)
I don't know a ton about mages (one of the few classes I haven't really played), but alot of the abuse given to fire mages is based on what were the high level dungeons before Burning Crusade came out. With dungeons such as UBRS (or LBRS, I forget), Blackwing Lair, and Molten Core the DPS of fire mages was greatly reduced by many fire-resistant mobs. However with the advent of Naxxramas and completely new BC content some of the balance has shifted back toward fire mages. Arcane mages are the ones who get no love as far as I can tell. Someone should stand up for them. --Fandyllic (talk · contr) 1:11 PM PDT 9 July 2006
Ok. so here we go. My first Toon was an arcane specced mage. Still is arcane spec. Simply put, I find them rather mana efficient, as well as having a decent DPS. This however, may have something to do that along with the talents and everything else, I have actually geared my mage toward halfway melee. I am not saying he is god. All I am saying, is i find that i can tear through gnomer, and manage 2-3 even con mobs. Clearcasting state and arcane missiles, with the sheild and everything... i just manaburn them down while i am swinging my sword. throw a few arcane explosions in there, and I have saved the party.
We have a Fire Mage on everyone of our Kara runs...doesn't cause any problems at all. In fact they are only one of two that come close to me on dps. --Mucke->Blameme 03:52, 17 July 2007 (UTC)
Ice Block and Improved Counterspell are really mostly important to PVP mages (along with goodies like Ice Barrier). If you don't PVP, fire mages are superior in straight up DPS (in my experience). However, in arena PVP, nowadays, focus fire is so intense that without Ice Block, you will simply die as a fire mage. Improved Counterspell is nice for locking down opposing players while focus firing someone down. I mean, it may mean nothing to you that the top arena teams have pretty much only frost mages, but if you can do better than they can as fire, show everyone they were wrong. =) --krakatoan 20:22, 22 September 2007 (UTC)

"10/48/3 is the prefered raid spec." <-- why does everyone take the same spec??? a few mages in my guild have this, so i went 12/46/3 1) better amplify/dampen magic for improved healing on melee boss 2) somone else will already have the +15% fire buff on the boss, you dont need several people with improved scorch Sharlotha 11:20, 22 November 2007 (UTC)

Playing as a tank, I can't stand Fire Mages in my group, and I will tell you why. A majority of Fire Mages I have met have them same reaction to mobs in instances no matter if they are Horde or Alliance. Lay on the DPS hard and fast, gain aggro, run away. Now, don't get me wrong, it's not a big deal if they gain aggro, it happens sometimes, its the running away part that gets on my nerves. If you are going to play a DPS class with low survivability to melee damage, then you have to learn that running away from the tank is the wrong idea. In order for him to regain aggro, he needs to hit the mob, and it isn't going to magically stop chasing you when you run away. Stay put, stopping casting spells, and if the tank hasn't figured it out, tell them you have aggro.
In addition, I think it is utterly laughable that You can spec yourself as fire and not be expected to use spells from the ice tree. That's like telling a Paladin "Hey, I know you are Protection specced, but if the healer can't get to you in time, you're just out of luck, since we don't want you healing yourself, you aren't specced for that!" You use everything you have at your disposal. You may not be as good at it as someone specced for it, but every little bit counts. -[[{User: Geoffory|Geoffory]] Newcastle, Steamwheedle Cartel 10:13, 23 November 2007

I think anyone whos says one is better than the other doesnt know what they are talking about. When u are a mage you are given the basic spells from all three classes. The only reason most people think ice is better is because it is easier to get used to because most fire mages don't understand that a tank is always very busy and can't always just jump over and help you. A fire mage does damage faster but has less survivability and ice mages is the exact opposite arcane mages(which by the way i don't see too many but beside the point) are an in between and probably the best spec for someone who is used to playing something like a hunter. I am fire mage and I've never had any complaints about the way I play.

It's a pretty simple concept. Fire is, and will always be, the true DPS tree for mages. Frost does great DPS in the right circumstances, but its most powerful talents are defensive. Arcane has been somewhat of an odd man out since WoW was released, though recently it has found its niche as a viable high end raiding tree, if you have the healthy mana regen required to sustain it.

Frost is seen as the PvP tree because of the survivability it provides the mage. With the constant barrage of dots, cc, debuffs, etc that get flung at you in PvP, ice block/coldsnap/ice barrier seem like a necessity to this mage, but of course, it is a matter of opinion. Fire does better DPS, hands down, but you will most definitely find yourself dieing faster in most PvP situations. It is a matter of play style and opinion which you choose.

Having played all three different speccs, and several hybrided ones (I am a very ambivalent person :P) I can say that most things you will hear about fire vs frost are false, or atleast very innacurate. Survivalism is one such obvious thing, you see most mages understand the concept of putting on Ice Block and Ice Barrier, but suprisingly few understand to use Dragon's Breathe and Blast Wave in the same way. I usually find myself surviving longer in PvP by slowing my enemys down, then confusing them and blinking away, rather then rooting myself in place so they can surronded me. Ice Barrier is of course a very nice thing to have, but Mana Shield works just as fine and doesn't have a cooldown, making it superior to Ice Barrier. It does drain mana but to be honest I rarely find myself out of mana when it takes only a few fire spells to kill of my target. Having Impact and Molten Armor on will also give you that 0.1 sec you will need to blink away from a rogues stunlock, whereas Ice Barrier would only give you another 1k health for the rogue to bash down. And I don't think I even have to explain why you wouldn't use Ice Block on a rogue. So for trading away Ice Barrier I instead get a instant slow and a instant confuser, both are AoE making them valid for both group and solo PvP. In arena however people will be aiming for you so there many says Ice Block is a must, and it probably would have been if it wasn't for Invisibilty. That spell is one of the most useless things ever made, it does however serve a purpose in Arena, namely giving you the ability to creep up on their healer, who you yourself won't see but who someone in the party can simply attack to give you a general idea. And then pop Combustion and use your 3 instant fire attacks. This will cause the healer to start healing himself making his friends easy target with your current 55-60% crit chance on fire spells (Atleast that is what I have at that point). Of course they might be skilled enough to purge you before you manage to attack, or they might have stealth detection. But because all mages go frost for Arena and never use Invís that rarely happens, and I still prefer that small chance of failure over the ability to let my friends die 10 seconds before me. : Darkstaffa 03:44, 5 January 2008 (UTC)

I've been a 21/40/0, 3 minute mage since her creation and doing so has only paid off more in the later 70 dungeons. I've never gotten any flak for being a Fire Mage and don't see why I ever would. I always watch my threat meter and know my role. Survivability is never an issue because I make sure to never pull aggro. If someone does mess up and pulls early then what good would Ice Block do anyway? Save myself while everone else wipes? Makes no sense to me. As for DpM, with 10000 mana, it's never an issue, and if it is a long boss fight, then there is always Evocation. My point is, I would never want to play anything other than a Fire mage. (yeah, I've played them all) - A00627213

I have played as a frost mage and as an arcane mage. I do see the point they are trying to make, but that doesn't make fire mages any worse than frost or arcane. Also, just because frost mages may have better armor buffs, doesn't necessarily mean their chance of survival is any better, it all depends on the way you play. Same goes for the stereotype of fire mages and dps.: Themusikid 16:28, 28 February 2008 (UTC)

Shaman Stuff

I'm kind of an in-betweener for WoW. I started maybe half a year ago, I've tried many things over that time. I've been known to be a kind of a char hopper, because I've used two/three months of that time to play every class and race in the game to try to catch a good option for me, and because when I thought I was settling down on a BE rogue I got him to lvl 22 and got bored (that was my main. I'd never had a char that high of a level before.). Well, now I'm determined I've found my sweet spot, a shaman, and I've FINALLY gotten him to level 23, over my last 'main.' But here's the thing--I'm a full-enhancement shaman, and I've found I suck at dueling and generally 1v1 combat, though I'm good in group combat. I nearly got beat by a druid four levels under me, and my good friend (a shaman who was two levels under me) beat him HARD with tons more HP than I'd had at the end. He seems to do a lot of jumping and spinning, but I still can't figure out what he's doing better than me. Generally I try to get up close, starting off with maybe some totems and a fire shock, then doing earth shocks whenever the cooldown wears off... what am I doing wrong?

On a different note, the same friend that beat the guy harder than me had better armor, and had equal/better stats than me on everything except Spirit. Considering I never use Lightning Bolts (enhancement, remember?), this is not a good thing. I need to get my stamina up, STAT--a warlock, yeah a WARLOCK in my last group had more health than me. I like to do instances a lot, so I've done WC ten or twenty times and have gotten three pieces of the Fang set... but apparantly that's not gonna cut it. What do I have to do to get more stamina-enhancing armor? I'm not going to use Spirit much.

Lastly, I have about 5 hours of play time a day in WoW, and I've found that the best way to use this is by doing instances. However, everyone around me levels ten times quicker than me! Is there a better way to gain experience, or do I just suck at that too?

Thx --Shinsen 15:53, 22 November 2007 (UTC)

--Well, I find myself to be very much like you... I am also a char hopper... I had a lvl 20 rogue before i got bored.. then made a priest to lvl 33, then got bored. Now I too have a shaman and love it. One thing is that shaman (enhancment at least) arent very good at pvp, the focus is more on lvling. If you want to be a PvP shaman... well dont.

Also, warlocks tend to have alot of health and stamina, considering it is basicly a second mana pool for them. (Life tap) Totemface 04:14, 14 March 2008 (UTC)

I edited your question so it is easier to read and does not utterly obliterate our tables. Thank you --Ithar 00:08, 24 June 2007 (UTC)
Enhancement Shaman suffer in PvP (dueling) and that has been acknowledged by Blizzard but they also said they have no fix. That being said, enhancement Shamans don't see much progression in DPS until they get their Wind Totems and the Windfury weapon buff. The next jump is level 40 where they get dual wield and the Storm Strike talent. Your also stuck in leather armor till 40 as well which doesn't help mitigate melee damage very much.
Most likely your problem in dueling is that you don't stay in melee range. All the running and jumping is simply being done to keep the melee class from hitting them, most likely trying to use frost, fire, or earth, shocks over and over. Don't worry about it. Dueling is for fun.
As for leveling speed, instances suck. The only time you want to do an instance is if you have a bunch of quests in their or just gotta have an item from one. The fastest way to level hands down is to do the quests appropriate for your level and gear. There are lots of free leveling guides on the net, try one. You will probably see that your wasting time in zones either too hard for you. SharlinTalk / Did 09:03, 25 June 2007 (UTC)
About the warlock having more HP than you do, that's not unusual. Warlocks use lifetap and drain life for mana, and tend to stack tons of stamina stuff. As one forum poster's signature says, 'My mana bar is green'. (BTW, everybody please sign your posts with four tildes...) --Azaram 03:17, 14 July 2007 (UTC)
My main is currently a lvl 47 pure enhancement shaman. When I read the start of your post I thought, this is me, becuase I jumped around all the classes and races before I settled on my shammy. First, I wanted to enourage you to stick with it. It is a somewhat hard and complex class to play, but you can really lay out some damage especially in pve. I don't do much PvP but in PvE I can consistently(and have always been able to) bring down mobs 4 levels above me, solo 2-3 mobs at my level, and in groups I am usually have the highest dps. So here's some tips: first make sure you have invested your talents wisely - read up on the best talent builds; conc. on armor that gives strength, stam, intellect, and agility (I try to go for all but prioritize strength); always train all you spells and learn what they do and in which situations u should use each one; and go for the weapon with the highest dps you can. Aim to get dual wield and windfury talents as soon as u can as well as stormstrike. You will be amazed at the difference and the power boost you get - and the tornado effect is so cool! When fighting cloth wearers close them down and melee them as soon as u can, if they are casting spells, wait till they have almost cast it and then hit earth shock - this disrupts the cast and delays the time before they can cast it again. Fire shock is good on rogues becuase it adds a DOT so they cant vanish. Frost shock is good on fleeing oponents so u can get back im melee range. Use ur totems wisely - they are the shammy's strength but also very mana hungry. Watch how ur friend does it. He must be doing something different. OR ask him to watch u and give u some tips. Most of all good luck and stick with it!


Thanks, everyone, but I have the answer. First of all, I don't think I had enough experience in shamans. I've also begun using a spell that I never really used before, but now practically worship... It's a little thing I call PURGE! A guildie of mine reccomended it to me. Now I kill warlocks easy, mages easier, and Paladins like they're grey-levels. I love PvP, and I find it easy now. It was probably just a lack of experience with shamans. Flurry helps a lot too. @ the guy above me, I have no intention to stop playing my Shaman. I've tried every other class except priest, and shaman is by far my favorite.
@ Sharlin--Bad at PvP? I don't think so. I love to kill Allies, and I pretty much dominate other classes now. Instances, noted. Leveling guides... I have the WoW Master Guide (Vol. 2). I'm trying to move on. I just can't find the entrance to the wetlands XD
@ Azaram--Demon Skin. Warlock+Purge+Tremor Totem=Dead Warlock.
@ Ithar--thanks. I still don't know how to sign my stuff XD --Shinsen 15:53, 22 November 2007 (UTC)
To sign, either type four tildes (shift and the key to the left of the number 1) or click on the signature button at the top of the edit window (second from the right, looks like a cursive scribble. Demon Skin isn't what I was talking about... that just restores a small amount of health, it doesn't give extra. I know warlocks with more HP than I have in my bear gear (not in bear form, just the high-stamina gear). --Azaram 04:40, 26 September 2007 (UTC)
Enhancement shaman are awesome when it comes to PvE. And if you want to maximize your damage, I can't think of a better place to go than the Elitist Jerks' theorycraft page. It's invaluable. Just from about three things on that page I've been able to quadruple my level 70 damage output. Ria 18:06, 7 March 2008 (UTC)
Enhancement Shamans being gimped in PvP refers mostly to Arena play, where they have a life expectancy of about 5 seconds. Totems are useless in arena since they get destroyed as soon as you put them down. Battlegrounds aren't as bad since they are generally more chaotic, and chaos is what Shamans thrive on. You don't have a handful of other players standing across from you just waiting to focus-fire you.--tobarstep 14:35, 22 October 2007 (UTC)
The Shaman is about chasing and being chased, depending on how matched you are in melee combat, chasing a warlock but running from a rogue. The other trees are mostly impotent, even though the enhancement tree is relatively boring (only stormstrike, really), though it is certainly better than the bogus bonus lightning bolt. The enhancement tree makes the most sense as melee combat is the weakness of the Shaman, who can't live without it nontheless, so boosting is essential. Who wants to be the guy taking longer to 'wolf' than the other Shaman (shamani?). I tried a healing shaman but was just mobbed (in pvp), though it was funny to survive a team up just healing, with the help of my teammates.
Purge and tremor, nod... mostly just fire with both barrels and keep maneuvering for position (behind, not in front). Run and slow if they are tough. Mostly a straight-forward fighter-class, with totems. (Use the totems wisely, like placing them behind the opponent.)--Jamvaru 21:16, 23 October 2007 (UTC)
  • now that i think on it more, the straight healing shaman might actually be the one to bet on. I'll have to try it again. ;> 19:07, 1 November 2007 (UTC)

Because the Shaman is perhaps the most balanced of all the classes (average armor, no real weapon skills, inefficient healing, expensive totems that are easily destroyed... also, it tries to do all things in battle, melee, tank, area, healing, blasting, etc.) it is not really good at any of them. So, you try to enhance one or the other of the features - healing, melee, blasting - but still aren't very effective. So, my final thought is that the most effective thing a shaman can have is to be able to heal under fire, the '70%' talent for healing without damage causing delay (Healing Focus). Then you can continue blasting and slashing some more. Recommended stat focus is max int and the rest balanced. ;> 22:30, 2 November 2007 (UTC)

im sorry u have 5 hrs of play time a day for 1/2 year and your highest was only 22? im sorry iv played i think... 8 mounths now and im lvl 65 come on man. but good choice of a shaman, love them. but i wana say that an 41/0/20 shaman is a super crit machine. with 6% crit chance from call of thunder and 5% from tidal mastery and 3% from wrath totem(so thats 14% crit with spec only on lightning) and a 100% crit damage bounus and 60% mana off next spell cast on a crit makes for a crit monster. so i think shaman can do stuff good.

04:30, 9 November 2007 Stormrage1313666 (Talk | contribs)

you forgot to add your sig...

check out this page, i just got done with it: Troll-shaman ;> (talk | con | wh) 23:30, 9 November 2007 (UTC)

My sham just hit lvl 42. I'm really enjoying the enhancement tree (2.3 is a gift from God) but I think I wanna roll a warr now. I just can't beat CC. Shamans don't have any Crowd Control, so I get pwnd every time I get stunned or rooted. At lower levels, other characters were dead meat because I was faster than they were. Slow, Gwolf, chase, kill. Now, at 42, everyone's mounted! My mith spurs don't really help that much either.
The reason I wanna roll a warrior, specifically, is because I can still have that up-in-your-face deal I had with my sham, but with more armor, CC, Charge/Intercept, and the ability to kill rogues. The rogue-killing is what I really look forward to.
On the other hand, if you have any tips for making the impact of having no CC lighter, feel free to tell me. I love my shaman, and I don't really wanna leave him.
And btw Stormrage I know that's pitiful but I couldn't find out wtf I wanted to do; Horde or Alliance, and then I had to experiment with each class. xD and it looks like I'm gonna fall into that again
Btw my friend dueled me again. I beat him 2/3 =D

--Shinsen 15:53, 22 November 2007 (UTC)

Tried warriors, didnt' like it. Back with shaman, level 50, still loving it. Do you think I should swap to elemental at this point? It'd be a moderate hassle to get the gear (not THAT bad since I have ~230 mining, and mith sells for 10g/stack on my server), but the real problem would be adjusting to the new playstyle. I'd have to figure out how to be Elemental effectively, and I love my Enhancement skill. Besides, I like the novelty of being a melee shaman. It's like mother nature...with heavy armor and battle axes. --Shinsen 21:53, 30 December 2007 (UTC)

Well, if you're planning on raiding at level 70 (Mostly Elemental and Restoration shamans here last time I checked) then I'd advise you to start collecting the caster mail at Outland, because the shift from elemental to restoration is far easier instead of from enhancement to restoration. Once you got a nice set of items (at about lvl 60/62 when you started in Outland at 58) then spec to elemental. The spec needs a bit getting used to, but it's really easy with basically only one spell (Lightning Bolt).--Uldreg 01:30, 31 December 2007 (UTC)

Respec'd to elemental at 51, regardless. Enjoying it sufficiently, disappointed about the loss of mage kills I've gotten (Counterspell is a b**ch), happy about all the 800-crits in my new elemental armor. I crit very often, and though I'm taking a highly-elemental build right now, I intend to respec to the "Arena Elemental" 40/0/21 at 70 to get Nature's Swiftness as opposed to Totem of Wrath. Only gonna respec Restoration at 70 if I absolutely have to (probably will, as I very much intend to raid with the Hellscream Maurauders, the best raiding guild on the server). So far enjoying it, but enhancement was more fun to some degree. Glad the survival rate as Ele is better, tho. --Shinsen 00:50, 9 February 2008 (UTC)

Which high end weapon enchant?

I'm just wondering which enchants to put on my duel-wielded swords. I have a Vindicator's with a speed of 2.60 and a Felsteel with a speed of 2.20. I'm looking at Mongoose but I don't know which sword would benefit more from it. Any advice? Thanks —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 71.245.104.126 (talk · contr).

They would both benefit the same if mongoose proc'd. The real question is which will it proc more from. Off-hand weapons have half the chance to proc. Even though your off-hand is faster, the main hand will proc more often. So, get the main hand enchanted first.
 ∙ Zurr  Talk ∙ Contr 10:05, 13 July 2007 (UTC)
Assuming your a warrior I would say put it on your main hand, get strength or some other constant on your off hand. For a rogue its a toss up. The agility is key to your crit rate but you don't need a crit spree in an instance as your tank won't be able to save you. No Hunter should ever buy this or other melee proc enchantment as you never want to be in melee to use it. (not to op, but feral druids cannot benefit from it either) SharlinTalk / Did 10:31, 13 July 2007 (UTC)
I dw mongoose on my lvl 70 rogue. As I understand it mongoose is a proc-per-minute enchant so it should consistently proc off of either weapon no matter the speed of the weapon. I find I have at lesat one if not two buffs running form procs off of my weapons. It never gives me aggro issues and the extra 120-240 agility is a lot of fun. Mucke - Blameme 22:14 pm, 16 July 2007 (UTC)
Had to sign up to add my two cents to this... First of all, ganking happens and you learn to deal with it over time. On our server, Alliance outnumber Horde 4 to 1 and most of them are ten year old kids whose parents use WoW as a form of babysitter. I have a lvl 70 Lock I leave parked next to my alt which takes care of most of my problems, but sometimes it causes the Alliance I reganked and camped to call on his other 70's to return the favor. Oh well, what can you do. I basically went from being the respectful horde to gank on demand. I hate generalizing the Alliance like that, but I look at it as, "You might as well get them before they get you." I don't mind getting ganked, but I hate it when they wait until you have ten percent health to do so, but it is going to happen; thus, deal with it, or move to the Horde side and see how Alliance are not much better.
I think you may have responded to a different topic than you intended, cause I don't really see how ganking and weapon enchants are related in this case. --BlameMe→ Mucke ←talkTo 21:23, 1 October 2007 (UTC)

Night Elves' Origin. Help!

Hi all, I'm planning on making a little movie about Night Elves' origin, i know it not clear at all, but i'd like to make out of my own theory. Sorry in advance for any mistake with the english language, i'm not native speaker ;)

I'm on the side of Elune's origin, and after reading a bit through the net i found a lot of "empty" spaces inside the stories... Of course the help i need is from someone who knows a lot about warcraft lore, since i'm only a newbie, still have to read all the books xD, but i'm not sure that they would solve my questions...

First of all, the reason why im on the Elune's Origin side is as it follows: We've got 2 origins, trolls or Elune, so i stick to the one that matches exactly physically with night elves, which is Elune, and not the ones that have some "similar" things, now, How do i "know" Elune's appereance is that of a night elf? by these facts: First I thought of the Statue of Darnassus and said ok, if that's how Elune looked then it's obvious night elves descended from her, then i thought, mmm wait, who says that statue was made from real Elune's looks? maybe night elves just made a statue of their goddess using their own look since they've never seen hers. Then i came up with another thing: Cenarius (that looks half stag, half night elf) was born from the union of Elune + Malorne, Malorne was a Stag, which explains the stag half of Cenarius, the night elf looking half was then from?? :P Elune. OF course i can be wrong, that's why i type it all here, to be corrected if so ^^.

After getting that clear, i tried to read about the list of descendants from Elune + Malorne and it's kind of confusing during some points because... There are no mothers! Who are the mothers of the ppl i'm gonna name next?!!!! if someone knows i'd be really thankfull since i think that's the clue of the night elf origin. Let me explain myself:

From Cenarius, it's said his children were keepers of the grove and dryads, both looking almost like him, half stag-half night elf, but who were their mother?, and the important thing comes here... Malfurion Stormrage is also named to be his son, but he doesn't have 4 stag legs! but 2 night elf legs! Why does he lose much of the stag resemblace? Obviously because of who his mother was. And that i want to know T_T

Another doubt is that Malfurion Stormrage is said to be Cenarius' son, and Illidan Stormrage is said to be Malfurion's twin brother, but never named to be Cenarius son too? So they share mother but not father? and who are they????

Well, i guess no one will find and answer, but thanks for the time anyway :)--DiosaWoW 16:38, 4 August 2007 (UTC)

Cenarious was Elune and Malorne's child, no one knows if Elune made them or if they were trolls, no one knows who was the mate of Cenarius, and Malfurion was his student not son.--SWM2448 19:08, 5 August 2007 (UTC)

My theroy (One made of my own love of the lore) is that they where a spawn of the Old Gods (Who I am opsessed with) But not the Kaldorie. I mean a More feral version. One that Looked to Zanndalar Trolls as other trolls. After the olgd gods defeat they migrated to a massive fount of magic power. The Well of Eternity. B eing used to basking in the presence of an Old God this new magic fount proably was 100X more powerful. Eventualy over the Appc. 10,000 years till the War of the ancients they Evolved into their Now known state. -Agamemmnon September 18, 2007


Actually if you read in the Warcraft books or read in the game guides, they tell you. Being a big fan of warcraft lore, Im just sharing my information. Actually Malorne(which I believe is the name of the white stag, an old God) is Cenarius' dad. Ysera, the Green Dragon Aspect, and the creator of the Emerald dream, is Cenarius' mother. Elune had nothing to do with Cenarius' creation. Even though Cenarius is half stag, half night elf, Ysera is an aspect and can take any form she likes. This is also why Cenarius is basicly the founder of the druidic ways. Ysera created the Emerald Dream, and taught Cenarius her ways. Cenarius was the father of others such as dryads, but Malfurion and Illidan were both sons of Night Elves, not Cenarius. Elune was also an Old God, who like Cenarius both at some point in time helped the NIght Elves out. Possibly in previous wars that are not stated, but they are both simbols for what the NIght Elves have become. THere are 100s of different Gods out there. HOwever Elune was a true God that I guess faded away or dissapeared, however Cenarius was just a half God. Also, both Malfurion and Illidan and Tyrande Whisperwind were all students of Cenarius, just they all chose different paths. Malfurion chose the druidic path of Cenarius, Tyrande chose Elune, and Illidan chose the greed of Power. - Travinator


Actually, Trav, there's a number of lore-related problems with that post. Ysera, IIRC, is eternally sleeping and now always resides in the Dream, in spirit form. No mating for her. The Aspects did not create the Emerald Dream, the Titans did, and they put the Green Aspect in charge of it. Malorne was not an Old God, there were only 5 Old Gods, at least two of whom were killed, and a third is in Silithis and a fourth in Northrend. Elune was not an Old God, but a True God, worshipped by the Tauren and Night Elves in different forms. She may or may not be a physical entity. Not hundreds of Gods, I dunno where you came up with that...

Also, Agamemmnon, there is evidence that the Old Gods are still active. And powerful beings such as the Gods wouldn't evolve into incredibly inferior beings such as Night Elves--Revner 19:03, 21 November 2007 (UTC)

~I tend to favor the troll theory and figure the shadow trolls are the missing link. Elune taking the form of a night elf and actual looking like a night elf are two different things. She supposedly mated with a giant white stag... I mean, come on. Did you see that thing Cenarius's son Zaetar supposedly married and mated with to birth the centaur? Clearly these forms they take on are meaningless. This leads me to believe that beings like Cenarius are more of a creation infused with the essense of the creators vs a genuine reproductive process.~ --NightBeard 05:14, 27 December 2007 (UTC)


Read the War of the Ancients trilogy by Richard A. Knaak. --Lleyla

I did. It was realy good.

But the Old Gods still may have made them. Couldn't Elune be an Old God? I mean she grants power to her folowers. Shes locked away from her people (never showing herself) and Yersa was only Cenarius's turo and Mother LIKE not his mother. -I have returned. Agamemmnon Febuary 3

# Factions

World of Warcraft is horrible because it ruins the lore of the series. Most people don't even pay attention when there IS lore mentioned in the game. Most people are ignorant of the in-game histories.

Why is it that there are only two playable factions: Alliance & Horde? Surely it would make sense to add Independent, Scourge, and Burning Legion factions as well to cover all other races.

Why are the two playable factions enemies? I thought they were allies?

Why is the Alliance always portrayed as "good guys" (Lawful Good) and the Horde as "bad guys" (Chaotic Evil)?

Why isn't there a Common tongue for the two factions to communicate?

For these reasons, I consider the Warcraft RPG to be superior to the video game in every way. --Zenosaga 14:50, 12 August 2007 (UTC)

You, sir, are stating the obvious. It's like saying the novel version of Jurassic Park was better than the movie version. Well of course the tabletop Warcraft RPG is better! It has far, far more detail than they could put into the video games, for one thing. For another thing, you have to realize that as a video game for the masses, there's bound to be limitations and constrictions.
You ask why there's only two playable factions. Simple. The first reason that comes to mind is "marketability". If they'd had everything -- and I mean everything -- open from the get-go, they couldn't continue to make expansion packs and whatnot for people to buy and/or they'd have to charge far, far more a month for their game play service as the game would be that much bigger. Further, there really can't be any truly "neutral" factions to play because in any good game, there's always two or more opposing forces. Mario vs. Koopa... GDI vs. Nod... The Final Fantasy heroes vs. some randomly generated bad guy... It's all symmetry. If you threw neutral factions into the works, they couldn't really be neutral unless they were all entirely marketeers, such as the Steamwheedle Cartel or something. How interesting would it be to play as the Tuskarr up in Northrend, fishing and whaling and doing what they do all day? Or running around as a gnoll just trying to survive and claim food or land for yourself? Not terribly interesting, if you ask me, and certainly not worth $59.99 per expansion.
You ask why the two playable factions are enemies. They're not. Nowhere is it stated that the Alliance and the Horde are at war with one-another. As has been stated time and time again, the two major factions of Azeroth are simply in a state of "uneasy peace" with each other. Little quarrels for land and resources break out in various places that border specific areas, sure... But for the most part, these are isolated incidents. You'll notice the Alliance isn't asking you to go into Warsong Gulch... No, the folks of the Silverwing Sentinels have come into the cities asking for outside assistance. Sure, the leaders could just as easily have pushed them outside their cities...but they're obligated to let them ask for help as they're allied. No...there is no true "faction vs. faction all-out war" going on... What happens between guilds of players and random players is strictly non-canonical, regardless of server type. Unless Warcraft IV comes out and officially states that Illidan, Arthas, and the leaders of the various towns are dead...then they aren't.
Tying into this, you claim that the game is ruining the lore. Well, keep something in mind... In World of Warcraft...there is no real lore in the making. I know this may be hard to wrap your head around, but what happens in WoW kind of stays in WoW unless otherwise stated by Blizzard.
You ask why the Alliance are portrayed as "the good guys" and the Horde portrayed as "the bad guys". Once again, this is rubbish. It's all in the eye of the beholder, really. Sure, a couple of factions of the Horde are a little on the idiotic or psychotic side in our eyes, but as I said... That's in our eyes. Imagine, if you will, if you suddenly lost your mind and body to a powerful entity, fought to gain your mental freedom, gained it, found your emotions had been all but dulled, then tried to return to your point of origin only to be shunned and burned with fire. There you have the Forsaken's point of view. They're still who they were in life... Just...not quite "as full of life," if you'll pardon the unintentional pun. As such, they seek vengeance against those who've done them wrong. Pretty much the same story with the sin'dorei... The orcs, though? The trolls? The tauren? They're all just trying to get by... To live their lives. They want nothing more than peaceful days. It just hasn't come to pass yet...
You ask why there's no common "Common" language. This...I can't explain. I don't know why, all of a sudden, orcs and the Forsaken can't talk with humans or sin'dorei can't talk with quel'dorei. If, according to Blizzard's own lore, "almost all intelligent races speak Common", then by all rhyme and reason, that should be what's going on! My only guess as to why this is as such is because Blizzard didn't want things like spies happening, or inter-faction communication gumming up the works. I believe there was a testing of giving the Forsaken the ability to speak Common (instead of Gutterspeak), but I also recall hearing from someone who was there that some seriously bad mojo happened. Maybe it was because only the Forsaken could speak Common? Maybe not. I don't know, I wasn't there. The point is, conventional inter-faction communication was apparently enough of a threat to the serenity of the game that Blizzard decided against it in the end.
Anyway, that's all I've got. Hopefully, this answers your questions, or even brings up further questions I or someone else can answer. ~ Doc Lithius (U)(T)(C) 15:34, 12 August 2007 (UTC)
The wall of text critted you for 100.000k wiki damage. --Ose 22:28, 8 September 2007 (UTC)

-- This giant wall of text is genius.

Also. To answer your question about the language barrier... well, it is basic philosophy. It would of course much too long to go into full detail, but basically it goes like this.

People like to feel like part of a group. A large group, or a small group, it dosent matter, but whatever it is, people like to be in a group devoted to a cause. In this case, that cause is to beat the snot out of the Alliance (or horde). The language barrier keeps every player in their selected group. If they could communicate with the enemy, they wouldnt seem so "evil" would they? No. Because they would be able to explain to you their position and side of view, and seem more "human" in your own eyes. Thus, you wouldnt feel it in you to PvP them, would you? What if you became friends? Then others would. And more, and still more. Intigrating he entire WoW community. Not only would it be utter chaos, it wouldnt be a game i would like to play.

So in brief, the answer to "why is there a language barrier?" is simple. Mob Mentality. Totemface 04:26, 14 March 2008 (UTC)

hahahah... !

the reason there are 2 forms of common, horde and alliance, is that if it were possible to understand each other, the battleground communications channel would be too confusing to understand. But, even if we could clearly see when an opposing player is speaking, rather than our teammates, the spam would be outrageous, as each side tried to out flame the other... it is bad enough to have someone yell 'Blaargh!'... imagine if we could cuss each other out coherently.

The thing about WoW, is that it is different from a PnP RPG. It is a computer game. As such, with 1000's per server, you have to consider the best way to get them to play nice together and have the most fun. I believe the idea of a neutral Faction is fabulous. But, it will have to wait. Maybe for WoW II? ;> (talk | con | wh) 23:31, 8 November 2007 (UTC)


Counter to the first point of the original post: so what? It's a fun game. I don't see the lore screwed up too much.
Counter to the second: there ARE other factions. They just aren't playable. C'mon, what would the classes be for the Scourge? Goblins would be a really cool idea, but that'd pose a problem in PvP.
Counter to the third: do you see in-game sequences where Thrall sends troops to mount asssaults on Alliance towns? Or the other way around? No. It's the player's decision, and the reason they're fighting is because of territory disputes. Naturally, the Alliance wants more land, because humans are expansive (which led to the fall of the Arathi). The Horde (excluding orcs) were all here at first, too--but with the arrival of our green-skinned friends the Alliance was able to justify it from 'encroachment' to 'holding off invasions.'
Counter to the fourth: where does it show that in WoW? Have you PLAYED the damn game? If you were playing Alliance, of course you're gonna find the 10-year-olds in the chat channels talking about how 'evil' Horde are. Horde are pwn! I've seen no bloody massacres the Horde has commited that the Alliance didn't make beforehand.
Counter to the fifth and final: if you're relating it to the RPG or WC RTS, you may notice that the important figures talk but the grunts/footmen/whatever don't. We, in WoW, are the grunts/footmen/whatever. Who knows? Thrall probably picked the human Common up frm his childhood. Demons are all-knowing, so they'd know any language. Night elves...are wierd. They have this nture thing going on; who knows what they know?
If you hate the game so much you shouldn't have bought it. If you didn't buy it, which I'm betting you didn't, you shouldn't be posting why a tabletop RPG is better. --—The preceding unsigned comment was added by Shinsen (talk · contr). 09:13, 22 November 2007
  • Easy solution - join a "Rebellion" guild that will teach you all the macros that the opposing faction can see, create an opposing faction alt as an "ambassador" for your main character, use the Neutral Auction Houses and attempt to get others to do so and try to work around the obvious blocks Blizzard has put up without breaking the EULA and TOS. :D Dashade


Wow. This is so wrong it hurts my brain. Where to start?
First, the two playable factions are the two largest/most varied alliances in the Warcraft world. Having an independent faction would be a paradox anyway, as if they were independent they wouldn't be part of the faction. Plus it would be nearly impossible to fold into game mechanics fairly. As far as Scourge and Burning Legion go, the members of those factions are hardly even sentient. For complaining about lore you are saying some surprisingly silly things. The Scourge is nearly all under the Lich King's direct control/influence, so playing a character for that faction would be akin to watching the Blair Witch Project. The Burning Legion is the same way.
The factions are NOT at war. That is simply a common misconception. They don't get along, and thus have "tussles" such as what is commonly experienced in PvP servers as well as in some of the quests. It is difficult for races with such different outlooks on life to see eye to eye on worldly matters, unless there is a great need for unison to defeat a common enemy (see Archimonde).
Neither the Alliance nor the Horde are "good guys". They are all selfish and tend to look out for themselves. You could make the argument that the Forsaken are evil by nature, however their true intent is not completely known. In fact, it is debatable whether or not they are inherently evil. Everyone else in the Horde is actually honorable and, on the whole, "good", just as the Alliance is.
Additionally, the lack of a common tongue is more of a game mechanic than anything else. In all honesty, it is even less likely that there is a "global" tongue than the already amazing ability of all current races of each faction to communicate with each other. You think Tauren know Gutterspeak? In all honesty it is most amazing that the races of the same faction can effectively communicate. ~ Bincho 00:54, 5 January 2008 (UTC)

How do i make people trust me site?

Hey there, I am not trying to advertise or something. Recenlty i just created a website for wow players, but seems to me people always think I am a gold spammer/keylogger. And refuse to go to my site. How can i convince people my site is safe? It is a websie that i created jsut for wow players.


-- Egelon 18:07, 28 August 2007 (UTC)

Sometimes it just takes time to build up a good reputation. Sometimes word of mouth from others is real helpful. The one thing you really need to think about before you open Yet Another Warcraft Site(tm) is do you offer something that all the other sites don't offer. If the information on your site can be found in 10 other sites that are much more popular, you're not going to get much traffic. If you open up a forum and just say its for WoW players, why should they go there when there's already plenty of other forums out there? I'm not trying to discourage you. When you're dealing with an established game with a huge fanbase that already has a ton of popular sites, you really need to have something different when you open a new site. - ClydeJr - talk - contrib 21:36, 28 August 2007 (UTC)
One way to make people think you are not a gold spammer is to not allow gold selling ads on your site. Also, if you don't have any unique or well presented information or features, your site may just not get traffic because there is no motivation for people to visit. Creating a site "just for WoW player" really isn't enough, unfortunately. --Fandyllic (talk · contr) 12:01 PM PDT 8 Sep 2007
Google, Google, Google. If you want to get some decent traffic, you should optimize your site for a specific niche in the big search engines and don't try to advertise for it in game. In-game advertising for just about any website will get you ignored by most players faster than "/y you all suck!". Do a web search for 'Google SEO' (search engine optimization), pick a niche that will force you to specialize your content, and follow all of the recommendations you can find in Google's FAQ's. If you're trying to compete for top listing with a specific keyword set, pick something specific and less traveled. Targeting your brand new site for a 'World of Warcraft' search results is not going to get you in the top 10,000 hits, let alone the top 10. Off the top of my head, dynamic (web 2.0 type) content, keyword meta tags that actually reflect the meaningful content of your site, and following ALL of Google's accessibility coding standards (no frames, robots.txt, streamlined content management system) are the three biggest factors in determining your listing order for targetted keyword searches. Read as much as you can about legit SEO and update/code to your pages daily. - Pjcareyiii 16:11, 27 November 2007 (GMT)

im a confused warlock

im a lvl 17 blood elf warlock im almost 18 and ill soon beable to use ritual of summoning, warlock spells cost alot and summon felsteed from wat i hear is 90s to 1g. i get tht this is a lot cheaper then most mounts but they would have to allow mail between horde and allince if i was gonna get tht money(i have rich allince char.) i was wondering how much i should charge for summoning people??


-- beaghking45 16:11, 7 October 2007 (UTC)beaghking45

A trick to give money from your alliance character to your horde charcter or vice versa is to get some grey item you get from a drop i na low level area and put it on a nuetral auction house, either in gadgetzen or botty bay, for a reiculous amount of mone ythat no one woudl ever pay and have you horde/alliance character buy it. Voila! You give money from your alliance character to your horde character! Gathorlo 17:59, 7 October 2007 (UTC)

First, you can transfer money from one faction to the other in this fashion. The AH keeps a cut of the sale though so you lose a % of whatever gold you are transferring. Second, and I don't mean this to flame anyone, but to the previous person who replied, use firefox or something with spell chscking built in. I had a hard time reading your reply because the spelling is that bad. Again, not wanting to bad mouth you at all, just asking for you to help the rest of us out. --BlameMe→ Mucke ←talkTo 21:35, 7 October 2007 (UTC)
About the above suggestion... That's extremely incorrect. It's impossible for you to sell yourself anything through any auction house. You can't, for example, have your dwarf hunter sell his Fishing Pole for 20g and then have your troll mage try and buy it. It simply won't show up on the troll's auction house search. On the other hand, if the dwarf and the troll are on two completely seperate accounts, then yes. The trick will work. ~ Doc Lithius [U|T|C] 09:48, 8 October 2007 (UTC)
I haven't ever actually tried to buy good from one of my alts, but I can verify that their stuff *does* show up in AH searches, so I'm pretty sure you are wrong here. Now, I'm going to try to buy something just to prove it can be done and will report back tomorrow.mes 18:47, 31 October 2007 (UTC)

Maybe it has been changed but when I was a lower level and tryign to find out what I wanted to play as, this is what I did. It always worked for me. Gathorlo 16:02, 8 October 2007 (UTC) PS Muck you need to chill out. My spellign wasn't that bad, and even then it wasn't wrong spelling, just mixing up of letters withiun the word, cuz I type really fast.


To Doc, the Neutral AH thing does work. I have a Gnome parked in Booty Bay. I also have an Undead Rogue Leatherworker that I was trying to get some of the Alliance only patterns for. I ran around and bought them from venders with the gnome and placed them on the AH in Booty Bay. Then logged out, switched to my rogue and bought them. Same account. It will show-up on your AH search. Just like if I take my Rogue to the AH in Org and put an item up, then search for the same item, it will come up, it just notes it as your auction. This wasn't a random idea or something I have heard about, it is something I have done and do on a regular basis.
To Gathorlo, I am sorry you took offense to my comment on your spelling. But yes, it was that bad and difficult to read. This isn't an attack on you, though you seem to have taken it that way, its merely me asking for you to be more considerate of others when you post by making sure your post is readable. --BlameMe→ Mucke ←talkTo 17:49, 8 October 2007 (UTC)
I tried over the summer to transfer an item this way, the item did show up, but I wasn't able to buy it because of the "same account" limitation.
Also, 1 gold is about what you will be paying for skills in general at level 40, so is not a big deal to afford if you are using professions well, or just using whatever method you use ot get gold for regular skills.Minionman 23:23, 8 October 2007 (UTC)
Okay, I was half wrong. You can see your own auctions. (Or rather your alt's auctions.) However, if you try to bid on one or buy one out, you get the error message of "You cannot bid on your own auctions." It's exactly the same as trying to have one person's alts sign your guild charter. "That person has already signed your charter." How do I know? I just tried to by my alt's Strong Fishing Pole for 20g and it said exactly what I quoted. Don't you make me take a video of it. =P ~ Doc Lithius [U|T|C] 00:48, 9 October 2007 (UTC)
Odd, that must be really new. Probably another attempt to foil gold sellers that screws the rest of us.--BlameMe→ Mucke ←talkTo 05:59, 9 October 2007 (UTC)
Not new at all. Been that way since I started playing in January.--tobarstep 15:15, 22 October 2007 (UTC)

There is an easy way around this. go find a friend u trust, give him the money, have him buy it off the nuetral AH. Sharlotha 11:47, 22 November 2007 (UTC)

Is there a prefered grouping for Shadow Labyrinth

Now, before I get pelted with beer cans like Flounder at the beginning of Animal House and have to endure shouts of "noob" I beg forgiveness before submitting the following for discussion.

Is there a prefered grouping for Shadow Labyrinth? The reason I ask is sometimes I run the instance and it's a complete utter mess, especially at Blackheart the Inciter, and other times it's a cakewalk. Normally, I'd chalk it up to bad groups, but I've gotten through the instance with the most dysfunctional PUGs you can imagine, while other solid groups I've run other instances with get repeatedly wiped. The bosses are strangely tough as well. I've never once cleared Blackheart and that silly orc second boss and not then cleared Murmur. It's like the second or third boss is tougher than the final one.

As far as the groups are concerned, gear, experience and levels are about the same. Is it luck? Are there some class mixes that work better than others? Should I just resign myself to the notion that my priest will never get Karazhan keyed and I should just go play Hello Kitty Island Adventure?

I mock myself in jest. I am truly interested in knowing what has worked consistently well with other groups in the past. I've read the page and the strategy there, but I was hoping for more, personal recollections, especially around group composition.

Dirkbronze 20:27, 15 October 2007 (UTC)

Here's a recent set of group members I ran Shadow Labyrinth with:
  • Holy Priest
  • Affliction Lock
  • Tankadin
  • Shadow Priest
  • Fire Mage
Result? Couldn't get past Blackheart.
Tonight:
  • Feral Druid
  • Holy Priest
  • Fire Mage
  • Hunter
  • DPS Pally
Result? Cleared without a wipe. Priest was the same, mage was the same, maybe one mor